The time has come for our fourteenth IGN Pro League Fight Club! This is a weekly king of the hill showmatch series. Basically, there will be a 1 vs. 1 best of 9 showmatch each and every week, where the winner will earn a $500 prize and a $100 bounty on their head. For example, if a player wins three weeks in a row they will have earned $1,500 and a $300 bounty. If a NEW challenger defeats him, they will earn $500 for the showmatch, take the $300 bounty home, and have a new $100 bounty placed on their head for each week that they win. (Similar to IPL Team Arena, but without the teams!)
When: Wednesday, Apr 04 12:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) (we will also have a European re-broadcast as usual at Wednesday, Apr 04 4:30pm GMT (GMT+00:00))
viOLet dethroned HerO and then went on to take out TheStC in a very close battle. He's earned $1,000 so far and a $200 bounty on his head. This week, he'll be facing his toughest opponent yet: SK.MC! MC is one of the best players on the planet and will not be taking this series lightly. Tune in, bring a friend, and don't miss a game of what promises to be an incredible set of games!
viOLet < Cloud Kingdom > MC viOLet < Daybreak > MC viOLet < Antiga Shipyard > MC viOLet < Tal'Darim Altar > MC viOLet < Metropolis > MC viOLet < Darkness Falls > MC Congratulations to MC, winning 5-1 over viOLet! He earns $500 for the win and the $200 bounty!
Map List
IPLMap Sanshorn Mists AE IPLMap Atlantis Spaceship IPLMap Antiga Shipyard IPLMap Daybreak IPLMap Tal'Darim Altar LE IPLMap Cloud Kingdom IPLMap Metropolis IPLMap Ohana IPLMap Entombed Valley
All the maps can be found on NA, EU, or KR by searching for IPLMap!
The first map will be on a set rotation, and then it is loser's pick.
Casters
This week's games will be commentated by CatsPajamas and Doa!
Stay up to date with IPL4, IPL TV, IPL Fight Club, and IPL Team Arena Challenge by checking our Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, and Twitch.TV!
As much as I would LOVE for viOlet to win and will be routing for him - I can't deny that MC has sick PvZ and admits it himself. And while viOlet has competent ZvP he's certainly not invulnerable. It will be a tough road for him but it wouldn't be the first time he's upset someone.
When: Wednesday, Apr 04 10:00am AEST (GMT+10:00) <----- Working (we will also have a European re-broadcast as usual at Thursday, Apr 05 2:30am AEST (GMT+10:00)) <----- Sleeping,
Can IGN PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do a rebroadcast at a decent time for Autralia/NZ/Asia. You have no rebroadcast at a decent time for us and it makes us sad.
On April 03 2012 17:01 PraiseB wrote: When: Wednesday, Apr 04 10:00am AEST (GMT+10:00) <----- Working (we will also have a European re-broadcast as usual at Thursday, Apr 05 2:30am AEST (GMT+10:00)) <----- Sleeping,
Can IGN PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do a rebroadcast at a decent time for Autralia/NZ/Asia. You have no rebroadcast at a decent time for us and it makes us sad.
psch, sleep is for the weak :p at least we have decent times for GSL, which is now 7pm primetime :D
On April 03 2012 17:01 PraiseB wrote: When: Wednesday, Apr 04 10:00am AEST (GMT+10:00) <----- Working (we will also have a European re-broadcast as usual at Thursday, Apr 05 2:30am AEST (GMT+10:00)) <----- Sleeping,
Can IGN PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do a rebroadcast at a decent time for Autralia/NZ/Asia. You have no rebroadcast at a decent time for us and it makes us sad.
psch, sleep is for the weak :p at least we have decent times for GSL, which is now 7pm primetime :D
I know, but they also put VODS up within an hour of the broadcast so even if I can't watch live I can catch up straight after. However with the way IGN do things it's another 24 hours until a VOD turns up, makes it impossible to keep up with without spoilers everywhere.
For exampe, I'd love to watch the TOC finals but I never will as there wont be VODs avalible until after the EU broadcast in 8 hours by which point who cares.
On April 03 2012 17:09 Canucklehead wrote: 5-0 MC, unless he feels like messing around. MC absolutely destroyed violet 3-0 at iem world.
considering how volatile and how much variance there is in maps, cheese etc currently 5-0 seems very unlikely.
who would have predicted Snute winning over Killer, Sheth and Titan, TLO over aLive or Mana over MMA...
Well MC has barely lost against zerg this year and Violet looked completely lost against him at IEM and just got stomped. Wouldn't be surprised at a 5-0.
On April 03 2012 22:08 Hulavuta wrote: They have Stephano lined up if viOlet loses, am I the only one thinking that he's not gonna show up? :DDDD
Nevertheless, I hope MC wins this time. I feel that MC is pretty favored against Stephano and I don't want Stephano to last very long.
Haha and then you get a fanboy saying the usual "You guys just don't understand. Some matches aren't important to Stephano. That's why he doesn't show. "
I really hope MC beats Violet and then Stephano (and MC's certainly favored against both of them, despite Stephano's ZvP being great).
On April 03 2012 22:08 Hulavuta wrote: They have Stephano lined up if viOlet loses, am I the only one thinking that he's not gonna show up? :DDDD
Nevertheless, I hope MC wins this time. I feel that MC is pretty favored against Stephano and I don't want Stephano to last very long.
Haha and then you get a fanboy saying the usual "You guys just don't understand. Some matches aren't important to Stephano. That's why he doesn't show. "
I really hope MC beats Violet and then Stephano (and MC's certainly favored against both of them, despite Stephano's ZvP being great).
Well I agree that the matches aren't important to him. I think they SHOULD be important to him though.
I think MC would be able to take out Stephano, he currently has a 100% winrate against him! (lolol) MC probably has the best PvZ in the world currently.
When you watch a Zerg that is really good like Stephano or Ret play against most Protoss players, they win their games in the mid game and know exactly how to win.
Players like Hero and JYP have amazing lategame but against players such as Ret and Stephano, they will still lose if they suffer a midgame disadvantage. MC, on the otherhand, never looks like he is behind vs Zerg. He does fail 4 gate zealot harass, into fail blink pressure, into fail DT drop into 'I hold my third anyway really easily and absolutely crush you.'
He lost 0 probes vs mutas when he was pumping immortals and sentries and had no blink. He was pretty sloppy at MLG, but if he shows the form of IEM/HSC, he is not gonna lose a game.
On April 04 2012 03:19 Micket wrote: When you watch a Zerg that is really good like Stephano or Ret play against most Protoss players, they win their games in the mid game and know exactly how to win.
Players like Hero and JYP have amazing lategame but against players such as Ret and Stephano, they will still lose if they suffer a midgame disadvantage. MC, on the otherhand, never looks like he is behind vs Zerg. He does fail 4 gate zealot harass, into fail blink pressure, into fail DT drop into 'I hold my third anyway really easily and absolutely crush you.'
He lost 0 probes vs mutas when he was pumping immortals and sentries and had no blink. He was pretty sloppy at MLG, but if he shows the form of IEM/HSC, he is not gonna lose a game.
It's his ability to hit FF's perfectly. MC is on another level when it comes to FF'ing.
On April 04 2012 03:19 Micket wrote: When you watch a Zerg that is really good like Stephano or Ret play against most Protoss players, they win their games in the mid game and know exactly how to win.
Players like Hero and JYP have amazing lategame but against players such as Ret and Stephano, they will still lose if they suffer a midgame disadvantage. MC, on the otherhand, never looks like he is behind vs Zerg. He does fail 4 gate zealot harass, into fail blink pressure, into fail DT drop into 'I hold my third anyway really easily and absolutely crush you.'
He lost 0 probes vs mutas when he was pumping immortals and sentries and had no blink. He was pretty sloppy at MLG, but if he shows the form of IEM/HSC, he is not gonna lose a game.
It's his ability to hit FF's perfectly. MC is on another level when it comes to FF'ing.
Imagine if all Protoss players learned to do it. Its impossible to judge the balance of the matchup when only one player can use Protoss' most important ability correctly and consistently.
On April 04 2012 03:19 Micket wrote: When you watch a Zerg that is really good like Stephano or Ret play against most Protoss players, they win their games in the mid game and know exactly how to win.
Players like Hero and JYP have amazing lategame but against players such as Ret and Stephano, they will still lose if they suffer a midgame disadvantage. MC, on the otherhand, never looks like he is behind vs Zerg. He does fail 4 gate zealot harass, into fail blink pressure, into fail DT drop into 'I hold my third anyway really easily and absolutely crush you.'
He lost 0 probes vs mutas when he was pumping immortals and sentries and had no blink. He was pretty sloppy at MLG, but if he shows the form of IEM/HSC, he is not gonna lose a game.
It's his ability to hit FF's perfectly. MC is on another level when it comes to FF'ing.
Imagine if all Protoss players learned to do it. Its impossible to judge the balance of the matchup when only one player can use Protoss' most important ability correctly and consistently.
A key trait of all consistent champions is an ability to rise above the perceived balance and win regardless, just by being that good.
On April 04 2012 09:49 Bagration wrote: Good players make the game look imbalanced. Great play by MC.
LOL. That game on Antiga looked a lot like some of my ladder PvZs. Not sure if that's good or bad. Maxing out on 1.5 mining bases feels sloppy to me, but MC makes it work at the pro level.
Every game, MC seems to be behind form early game, but makes up for it after great decision making and perfect engagements. Entertaining series so far.
On April 04 2012 10:27 DontGiveUp wrote: Every game, MC seems to be behind form early game, but makes up for it after great decision making and perfect engagements. Entertaining series so far.
Ehh, I wouldn't really say he was behind in that game. His void pressure didn't kill a base but it didn't completely fail either.
On April 04 2012 10:27 DontGiveUp wrote: Every game, MC seems to be behind form early game, but makes up for it after great decision making and perfect engagements. Entertaining series so far.
If you're looking at supply, it's actually normal for protoss to be behind in supply because of the matchup: Because Zerg quickly grabs three hatcheries, they establish their production early, while the gateways and warpgate research of Protoss are delayed with FFE, so the production is delayed and protoss falls behind in supply.
On April 04 2012 10:40 Vetrocide wrote: even though this game was over long ago, one cant deny that force fields really broke this game;/
Please take your whining elsewhere, you zerg player. Better yet, quit the game because forcefields aren't going anywhere. People saying stuff like this pisses me off.
hm, you need guts to warp in so many sentries with their low dps output violet took that last engagement really, really bad. i think theres nothing op or broken on sentries, costing 50/100, and have exactly just 1 ff ready when warped in. zerg just shouldnt a-move roach only into a sentry/immortal army...
On April 04 2012 10:42 Havik_ wrote: That was the most one sided series I've seen in a long time. Those pointfields Good God.
It's like MC let Violet slap him... and then MC grinned and retaliated with a roundhouse kick to the face, a kamehameha, a hyper beam, a spirit gun, and then finally a fatality.
On April 04 2012 10:42 Havik_ wrote: That was the most one sided series I've seen in a long time. Those pointfields Good God.
It's like MC let Violet slap him... and then MC grinned and retaliated with a roundhouse kick to the face, a kamehameha, a hyper beam, a spirit gun, and then finally a fatality.
He then whipped out the Murloc costume and began to dance.
On April 04 2012 10:42 Havik_ wrote: That was the most one sided series I've seen in a long time. Those pointfields Good God.
It's like MC let Violet slap him... and then MC grinned and retaliated with a roundhouse kick to the face, a kamehameha, a hyper beam, a spirit gun, and then finally a fatality.
He then whipped out the Murloc costume and began to dance.
On April 04 2012 10:42 Havik_ wrote: That was the most one sided series I've seen in a long time. Those pointfields Good God.
It's like MC let Violet slap him... and then MC grinned and retaliated with a roundhouse kick to the face, a kamehameha, a hyper beam, a spirit gun, and then finally a fatality.
He then whipped out the Murloc costume and began to dance.
On April 04 2012 10:40 Vetrocide wrote: even though this game was over long ago, one cant deny that force fields really broke this game;/
Please take your whining elsewhere, you zerg player. Better yet, quit the game because forcefields aren't going anywhere. People saying stuff like this pisses me off.
Did I whine? I was just pointing out that I think force fields broke the game. I think it's broken because it eliminates micro from the opponent and is just flat out boring to watch as well. I think it's a fundamental problem to the game and doesn't necessarily have to do anything with balance.You dont have to jump to the fucking gun before thinking twice.
On April 04 2012 10:40 Vetrocide wrote: even though this game was over long ago, one cant deny that force fields really broke this game;/
Please take your whining elsewhere, you zerg player. Better yet, quit the game because forcefields aren't going anywhere. People saying stuff like this pisses me off.
Did I whine? I was just pointing out that I think force fields broke the game. I think it's broken because it eliminates micro from the opponent and is just flat out boring to watch as well. I think it's a fundamental problem to the game and doesn't necessarily have to do anything with balance.You dont have to jump to the fucking gun before thinking twice.
Well if you remove forcefields you break protoss unless you massively buff zealots and stalkers
On April 04 2012 10:40 Vetrocide wrote: even though this game was over long ago, one cant deny that force fields really broke this game;/
Please take your whining elsewhere, you zerg player. Better yet, quit the game because forcefields aren't going anywhere. People saying stuff like this pisses me off.
Did I whine? I was just pointing out that I think force fields broke the game. I think it's broken because it eliminates micro from the opponent and is just flat out boring to watch as well. I think it's a fundamental problem to the game and doesn't necessarily have to do anything with balance.You dont have to jump to the fucking gun before thinking twice.
I don't normally respond to these sort of comments but I can't help it due to the amount of PvZs i've been losing lately.
Forcefields are the only thing that keep the protoss in the game at all when the zerg goes 3 base roach. Forcefields and 2 base all-ining. (Which the commentators dislike I guess). I'm not complaining about zerg being overpowered or anything, i'm really saying that no protoss has a good answer to a roach build. That's one reason I'm watching this stream, to see if MC has any good builds I may be able to use. Don't believe me? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=320894
To further prove my point, here is mc proxy gating.
On April 04 2012 10:40 Vetrocide wrote: even though this game was over long ago, one cant deny that force fields really broke this game;/
Please take your whining elsewhere, you zerg player. Better yet, quit the game because forcefields aren't going anywhere. People saying stuff like this pisses me off.
Did I whine? I was just pointing out that I think force fields broke the game. I think it's broken because it eliminates micro from the opponent and is just flat out boring to watch as well. I think it's a fundamental problem to the game and doesn't necessarily have to do anything with balance.You dont have to jump to the fucking gun before thinking twice.
I don't normally respond to these sort of comments but I can't help it due to the amount of PvZs i've been losing lately.
Forcefields are the only thing that keep the protoss in the game at all when the zerg goes 3 base roach. Forcefields and 2 base all-ining. (Which the commentators dislike I guess). I'm not complaining about zerg being overpowered or anything, i'm really saying that no protoss has a good answer to a roach build. That's one reason I'm watching this stream, to see if MC has any good builds I may be able to use. Don't believe me? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=320894
To further prove my point, here is mc proxy gating.
Yes, it is the only thing that keep Protoss in the game, which is WHY the whole thing is fundamentally broken to begin with. I don't disagree with you, I was just voicing my opinion about how FF is just plain out stupid and boring from the get go, which we saw an example of in that game. Watching tons of roaches get trapped in a doughnut is just plain boring to watch and play with, and theres no micro to be done from the roach player, which is why I think it's stupid.
Protoss stays in the game sure, but he does it because of his ability to place FF, and if he's bad at it then he just loses, which is bad for overall gameplay.
Anyway this discussion doesn't belong in an LR thread so let's just stop.
On April 04 2012 10:40 Vetrocide wrote: even though this game was over long ago, one cant deny that force fields really broke this game;/
Please take your whining elsewhere, you zerg player. Better yet, quit the game because forcefields aren't going anywhere. People saying stuff like this pisses me off.
Did I whine? I was just pointing out that I think force fields broke the game. I think it's broken because it eliminates micro from the opponent and is just flat out boring to watch as well. I think it's a fundamental problem to the game and doesn't necessarily have to do anything with balance.You dont have to jump to the fucking gun before thinking twice.
I think good force fields are beautiful to watch imo.
On April 04 2012 10:40 Vetrocide wrote: even though this game was over long ago, one cant deny that force fields really broke this game;/
Please take your whining elsewhere, you zerg player. Better yet, quit the game because forcefields aren't going anywhere. People saying stuff like this pisses me off.
Did I whine? I was just pointing out that I think force fields broke the game. I think it's broken because it eliminates micro from the opponent and is just flat out boring to watch as well. I think it's a fundamental problem to the game and doesn't necessarily have to do anything with balance.You dont have to jump to the fucking gun before thinking twice.
I don't normally respond to these sort of comments but I can't help it due to the amount of PvZs i've been losing lately.
Forcefields are the only thing that keep the protoss in the game at all when the zerg goes 3 base roach. Forcefields and 2 base all-ining. (Which the commentators dislike I guess). I'm not complaining about zerg being overpowered or anything, i'm really saying that no protoss has a good answer to a roach build. That's one reason I'm watching this stream, to see if MC has any good builds I may be able to use. Don't believe me? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=320894
To further prove my point, here is mc proxy gating.
Yes, it is the only thing that keep Protoss in the game, which is WHY the whole thing is fundamentally broken to begin with. I don't disagree with you, I was just voicing my opinion about how FF is just plain out stupid and boring from the get go, which we saw an example of in that game. Watching tons of roaches get trapped in a doughnut is just plain boring to watch and play with, and theres no micro to be done from the roach player, which is why I think it's stupid.
Protoss stays in the game sure, but he does it because of his ability to place FF, and if he's bad at it then he just loses, which is bad for overall gameplay.
Anyway this discussion doesn't belong in an LR thread so let's just stop.
I don't even think it belongs here in TL at all... Balance whining is expressing one's opinions about how there is imbalance or how something broke the game... And I'm not gonna try defend, cuz others will just try to follow-up and TL would turn into b.net forums which are just sickening to even have a glimpse at.
On April 04 2012 10:40 Vetrocide wrote: even though this game was over long ago, one cant deny that force fields really broke this game;/
Please take your whining elsewhere, you zerg player. Better yet, quit the game because forcefields aren't going anywhere. People saying stuff like this pisses me off.
Did I whine? I was just pointing out that I think force fields broke the game. I think it's broken because it eliminates micro from the opponent and is just flat out boring to watch as well. I think it's a fundamental problem to the game and doesn't necessarily have to do anything with balance.You dont have to jump to the fucking gun before thinking twice.
I think good force fields are beautiful to watch imo.
Watching good force fields is like an art. Sadly, very few do it as beautifully as MC does.
Damn, dat boss toss. Seriously showing his full range of skills in those games. The way he managed to keep up with his macro while doing the VR harass in the 5th game was incredible- many lesser players would have fallen way behind there. And the WP micro while macroing in the last game was awesome too. Hope he can do the same in code S!
On April 04 2012 21:25 blacklist_member wrote: Wow, if MCs next oppponent is stephano, its going to be so awesome. BO9 between two of the best players of PvZ.
No, its not gonna be awesome. Stephano sucks against korean protoss'es and often proved so. He can't even beat Inori, a Code B protoss and has a terrible w/l ratio against MC (0:4).
On April 04 2012 21:25 blacklist_member wrote: Wow, if MCs next oppponent is stephano, its going to be so awesome. BO9 between two of the best players of PvZ.
Stephano never won against MC, and Stephano has a good ZVp but not in korean level, only top foreigners protoss, but foreigner protoss are nothing compared to MC, Genius, Parting, Hero and OZ.
Hey...i was looking for a link or some place to buy the IPL4 ticket for the streams but I have found nothing. I want IPL4 to take my money but I can't find anything...do I just go to Twitch and subscribe? Or is there any other way?
On April 04 2012 18:12 Bagi wrote: Would you guys recommend watching this series?
What about to someone who dislikes MC going 2-base every game?
What a hater. Only MC gets a flack for being 2 base just because he wins most of the time while others fail miserably.
MC already showed against Puma that instead of killing his opponent in less than 12 minutes, he can plant 1 or 2 nexus and delay it for another 5 mins. So what's the point of taking that extra 5 min if you can kill your guy earlier?
Everyone was jumping up and down when MKP was beating Protosses with tank-marine all ins which is more of a cheese than 2 basing (if 2 base is even considered all in)
On April 04 2012 10:40 Vetrocide wrote: even though this game was over long ago, one cant deny that force fields really broke this game;/
Please take your whining elsewhere, you zerg player. Better yet, quit the game because forcefields aren't going anywhere. People saying stuff like this pisses me off.
Did I whine? I was just pointing out that I think force fields broke the game. I think it's broken because it eliminates micro from the opponent and is just flat out boring to watch as well. I think it's a fundamental problem to the game and doesn't necessarily have to do anything with balance.You dont have to jump to the fucking gun before thinking twice.
On April 04 2012 10:40 Vetrocide wrote: even though this game was over long ago, one cant deny that force fields really broke this game;/
Please take your whining elsewhere, you zerg player. Better yet, quit the game because forcefields aren't going anywhere. People saying stuff like this pisses me off.
Did I whine? I was just pointing out that I think force fields broke the game. I think it's broken because it eliminates micro from the opponent and is just flat out boring to watch as well. I think it's a fundamental problem to the game and doesn't necessarily have to do anything with balance.You dont have to jump to the fucking gun before thinking twice.
I think it was the last game where MC went FFE into robo to get a quick warp prism and +1 zealots. That was an amazing one to watch, if you are protoss. I feel like tosses should be doing this more instead of going voidray with +1 zealots. It costs a lot less gas, which means more sentries or tech. And MC didn't even get off anything gimmicky with it, as Violet defended very well, but it still did massive damage. It set the zerg back and set MC up for an easy third and a steamroll.
The entire series also showcased the usefulness of a pylon that can move and not be hit by anything but queens until midgame.
On April 05 2012 00:58 Zzoram wrote: FF does not remove micro, in fact it forces MORE micro.
Roach burrow move is designed specifically for use against FF. Also, Medivacs can pick up MM to move them behind FF.
We have seen those things be done successfully by good players against FF. There is no equivalent way to get out of a Fungal.
Those things usually aren't available when sentries are at their strongest though, in the early game.
I guess that's the reasoning on it. FFs are good early game but really lose their usefulness as the game goes on (dropships, massive units, burrow move, or just air in general). On the other hand, fungal gets stronger as the game goes on, since most lategame units are armored and air units tend to clump.
On April 05 2012 00:58 Zzoram wrote: FF does not remove micro, in fact it forces MORE micro.
Roach burrow move is designed specifically for use against FF. Also, Medivacs can pick up MM to move them behind FF.
We have seen those things be done successfully by good players against FF. There is no equivalent way to get out of a Fungal.
Those things usually aren't available when sentries are at their strongest though, in the early game.
Strongest? do you know how much gas it cost to get out 4 or 5 sentries?? even with those sentries you got no gas for stalkers or if you go zealots you need the sentries to build up energy. There are plenty of counters. FF can be eliminated by massive units, where as fungel can't. So whats op now?
The only reason people are qqing about FF is because of MC. It's funny how there dozens of other top Protosses that have accesses to the same spell but does not incite this much whine from FF. Guess this just proves how much godlike MC is with his FFs.
On April 05 2012 00:58 Zzoram wrote: FF does not remove micro, in fact it forces MORE micro.
Roach burrow move is designed specifically for use against FF. Also, Medivacs can pick up MM to move them behind FF.
We have seen those things be done successfully by good players against FF. There is no equivalent way to get out of a Fungal.
I know there are people out there that really hate fungal because it reduces micro, but did people have similar complaints about stasis or lockdown back in BW? It seems like a similar spell to me, but even longer duration and prevents units from even attacking. I will admit I've been quite annoyed a few times when my Carrier armada was completely lockdowned.
On April 05 2012 00:58 Zzoram wrote: FF does not remove micro, in fact it forces MORE micro.
Roach burrow move is designed specifically for use against FF. Also, Medivacs can pick up MM to move them behind FF.
We have seen those things be done successfully by good players against FF. There is no equivalent way to get out of a Fungal.
I know there are people out there that really hate fungal because it reduces micro, but did people have similar complaints about stasis or lockdown back in BW? It seems like a similar spell to me, but even longer duration and prevents units from even attacking. I will admit I've been quite annoyed a few times when my Carrier armada was completely lockdowned.
On April 05 2012 00:58 Zzoram wrote: FF does not remove micro, in fact it forces MORE micro.
Roach burrow move is designed specifically for use against FF. Also, Medivacs can pick up MM to move them behind FF.
We have seen those things be done successfully by good players against FF. There is no equivalent way to get out of a Fungal.
I know there are people out there that really hate fungal because it reduces micro, but did people have similar complaints about stasis or lockdown back in BW? It seems like a similar spell to me, but even longer duration and prevents units from even attacking. I will admit I've been quite annoyed a few times when my Carrier armada was completely lockdowned.
On April 05 2012 00:58 Zzoram wrote: FF does not remove micro, in fact it forces MORE micro.
Roach burrow move is designed specifically for use against FF. Also, Medivacs can pick up MM to move them behind FF.
We have seen those things be done successfully by good players against FF. There is no equivalent way to get out of a Fungal.
Those things usually aren't available when sentries are at their strongest though, in the early game.
Strongest? do you know how much gas it cost to get out 4 or 5 sentries?? even with those sentries you got no gas for stalkers or if you go zealots you need the sentries to build up energy. There are plenty of counters. FF can be eliminated by massive units, where as fungel can't. So whats op now?
What does anything you say have to do with me stating sentries are at their strongest in the early game?
1. Accept you know nothing about this game as you are just one out of thousands and thousands of players and you aren't even ranked that high. Look to improve your game by identifying areas you are weak in through practice, as well as watching how better players deal with similar problems.
or
2. Log on TL, complain about imbalance and expect something to change.
On April 05 2012 00:58 Zzoram wrote: FF does not remove micro, in fact it forces MORE micro.
Roach burrow move is designed specifically for use against FF. Also, Medivacs can pick up MM to move them behind FF.
We have seen those things be done successfully by good players against FF. There is no equivalent way to get out of a Fungal.
Those things usually aren't available when sentries are at their strongest though, in the early game.
Strongest? do you know how much gas it cost to get out 4 or 5 sentries?? even with those sentries you got no gas for stalkers or if you go zealots you need the sentries to build up energy. There are plenty of counters. FF can be eliminated by massive units, where as fungel can't. So whats op now?
I would like to see you get out ultras early enough to to break those forcefields especially since it's the only zerg unit which is massive (apart from brood lord).
Also, infestor comes out way later than sentries, fungel requires more energy and they cost more gas. Did I mention infestor does not have a base damage? Why compare apples to oranges?
Sentries are in the game like it or not and they are apparently not going anywhere in WoL... Nice fix to the problem would be to remove smart cast from the sentries, but wont happen, and it's not like it's an insta-win unit either... Violet took some bad engagements which allowed MC to force field as good as he did.
On April 05 2012 00:58 Zzoram wrote: FF does not remove micro, in fact it forces MORE micro.
Roach burrow move is designed specifically for use against FF. Also, Medivacs can pick up MM to move them behind FF.
We have seen those things be done successfully by good players against FF. There is no equivalent way to get out of a Fungal.
Those things usually aren't available when sentries are at their strongest though, in the early game.
Strongest? do you know how much gas it cost to get out 4 or 5 sentries?? even with those sentries you got no gas for stalkers or if you go zealots you need the sentries to build up energy. There are plenty of counters. FF can be eliminated by massive units, where as fungel can't. So whats op now?
I would like to see you get out ultras early enough to to break those forcefields especially since it's the only zerg unit which is massive (apart from brood lord).
Also, infestor comes out way later than sentries, fungel requires more energy and they cost more gas. Did I mention infestor does not have a base damage? Why compare apples to oranges?
Sentries are in the game like it or not and they are apparently not going anywhere in WoL... Nice fix to the problem would be to remove smart cast from the sentries, but wont happen, and it's not like it's an insta-win unit either... Violet took some bad engagements which allowed MC to force field as good as he did.
The whole FF vs Fungal started coz some zerg whined about FF. Fungal not only keeps units from moving but also does damage. Not to mention that the same unit can spam supply-free high dps units.
At the end of the day, they are apples and oranges, but in this case the apple taste better than orange (assuming apple is the fungal)
And I was thinking how a protoss of MC's level will deal with the Stephano-style max with roaches on 12-14 mins that looks so unbeatable in ZvP recently, but MC just smashed Violet into 5 different pieces. Granted Violet didn't do it enough, only once on Tal Darim but MC hold it so beautifully it brought a tear to my eyes. Still think Violet could have forced the issue though in that game but whatever, gogo Obamatoss MC MC MC!!
On April 05 2012 21:49 elwoodng wrote: And I was thinking how a protoss of MC's level will deal with the Stephano-style max with roaches on 12-14 mins that looks so unbeatable in ZvP recently, but MC just smashed Violet into 5 different pieces. Granted Violet didn't do it enough, only once on Tal Darim but MC hold it so beautifully it brought a tear to my eyes. Still think Violet could have forced the issue though in that game but whatever, gogo Obamatoss MC MC MC!!
MC crushes Stephano when they play. 5-0 since blizzcup and it's not even close. Basically I don't see any zerg but DRG or Nestea beating MC regularly.
On April 05 2012 21:49 elwoodng wrote: And I was thinking how a protoss of MC's level will deal with the Stephano-style max with roaches on 12-14 mins that looks so unbeatable in ZvP recently, but MC just smashed Violet into 5 different pieces. Granted Violet didn't do it enough, only once on Tal Darim but MC hold it so beautifully it brought a tear to my eyes. Still think Violet could have forced the issue though in that game but whatever, gogo Obamatoss MC MC MC!!
On April 05 2012 21:49 elwoodng wrote: And I was thinking how a protoss of MC's level will deal with the Stephano-style max with roaches on 12-14 mins that looks so unbeatable in ZvP recently, but MC just smashed Violet into 5 different pieces. Granted Violet didn't do it enough, only once on Tal Darim but MC hold it so beautifully it brought a tear to my eyes. Still think Violet could have forced the issue though in that game but whatever, gogo Obamatoss MC MC MC!!
MC crushes Stephano when they play. 5-0 since blizzcup and it's not even close. Basically I don't see any zerg but DRG or Nestea beating MC regularly.
DRG doesn't even beat MC regularly anyway. I don't know for sure, but I think the score between them isn't one sided but of course, i only watch the GSL and GSL related events.
On April 05 2012 21:49 elwoodng wrote: And I was thinking how a protoss of MC's level will deal with the Stephano-style max with roaches on 12-14 mins that looks so unbeatable in ZvP recently, but MC just smashed Violet into 5 different pieces. Granted Violet didn't do it enough, only once on Tal Darim but MC hold it so beautifully it brought a tear to my eyes. Still think Violet could have forced the issue though in that game but whatever, gogo Obamatoss MC MC MC!!
MC crushes Stephano when they play. 5-0 since blizzcup and it's not even close. Basically I don't see any zerg but DRG or Nestea beating MC regularly.
DRG doesn't even beat MC regularly anyway. I don't know for sure, but I think the score between them isn't one sided but of course, i only watch the GSL and GSL related events.
It's like 7-4 in DRG favor. Nestea hardly ever loses to protoss and is 2-0 vs MC.
On April 05 2012 21:49 elwoodng wrote: And I was thinking how a protoss of MC's level will deal with the Stephano-style max with roaches on 12-14 mins that looks so unbeatable in ZvP recently, but MC just smashed Violet into 5 different pieces. Granted Violet didn't do it enough, only once on Tal Darim but MC hold it so beautifully it brought a tear to my eyes. Still think Violet could have forced the issue though in that game but whatever, gogo Obamatoss MC MC MC!!
MC crushes Stephano when they play. 5-0 since blizzcup and it's not even close. Basically I don't see any zerg but DRG or Nestea beating MC regularly.
DRG doesn't even beat MC regularly anyway. I don't know for sure, but I think the score between them isn't one sided but of course, i only watch the GSL and GSL related events.
It's like 7-4 in DRG favor. Nestea hardly ever loses to protoss and is 2-0 vs MC.
EPT
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