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United Kingdom3249 Posts
On April 04 2012 02:26 Liquid`NonY wrote:Another ridiculous map pool  I can't believe how so many leagues could easily make a huge improvement with a better map pool and they just don't do it. Open your eyes!!!
Err. As much as I do not really get the inclusion of Metalopolis and Shakuras Plateau at this point, this is hugely better than MLG. MLG is really the only tournament that makes atrocious map decisions these days; IPL and GSL have quite good ones, this one is adventurous though a bit schizophrenic due to the aforementioned ones. Why do you scorn this when there is an elephant in the room?
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Very good map pool, far better than mlg's. It is, however, far too large. Metalopolis and shakuras should be removed in my opinion.
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Canada1637 Posts
On April 04 2012 02:30 prodiG wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 02:26 Liquid`NonY wrote:Another ridiculous map pool I can't believe how so many leagues could easily make a huge improvement with a better map pool and they just don't do it. Open your eyes!!! What don't you like about it? (I dislike Shakuras/Metal a lot here but they're using Vicious so I can't complain a lot~)
I think the biggest issue (if not the only issue) with this map pool is the size of it.
Have some balls.
Pick good maps.
Fuck vetoes.
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United Kingdom3249 Posts
On April 04 2012 02:41 Adebisi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 02:30 prodiG wrote:On April 04 2012 02:26 Liquid`NonY wrote:Another ridiculous map pool I can't believe how so many leagues could easily make a huge improvement with a better map pool and they just don't do it. Open your eyes!!! What don't you like about it? (I dislike Shakuras/Metal a lot here but they're using Vicious so I can't complain a lot~) I think the biggest issue (if not the only issue) with this map pool is the size of it. Have some balls. Pick good maps. Fuck vetoes.
Well with vetoes being a standard for Dreamhack, it is logical for the size to be what it is. The fight has to be picked with having double blind veto, not with the size of the map pool - the latter merely follows as a logical extension of the former.
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Switzerland2892 Posts
I don't like this map pool
I don't think many players have played a lot on vicious and frigid
Metalopolis is terrible, I don't get how it's still in so many tournaments
Shakuras can really be terrible
The rest is okay
It would be better if tournaments would just have the same maps as the GSL imo
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On April 04 2012 02:41 Adebisi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 02:30 prodiG wrote:On April 04 2012 02:26 Liquid`NonY wrote:Another ridiculous map pool I can't believe how so many leagues could easily make a huge improvement with a better map pool and they just don't do it. Open your eyes!!! What don't you like about it? (I dislike Shakuras/Metal a lot here but they're using Vicious so I can't complain a lot~) I think the biggest issue (if not the only issue) with this map pool is the size of it. Have some balls. Pick good maps. Fuck vetoes.
9 maps is way to many. Five is pushing it. I would rather have 4 maps and have amazing, refined games, than 9 standard games.
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On April 04 2012 02:44 pPingu wrote:
I don't like this map pool
I don't think many players have played a lot on vicious and frigid
Metalopolis is terrible, I don't get how it's still in so many tournaments
Shakuras can really be terrible
The rest is okay
It would be better if tournaments would just have the same maps as the GSL imo
The GSL with Metalopolis and Shakuras in the map pool? Or a different one?
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Canada1637 Posts
On April 04 2012 02:43 Porcelina wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 02:41 Adebisi wrote:On April 04 2012 02:30 prodiG wrote:On April 04 2012 02:26 Liquid`NonY wrote:Another ridiculous map pool I can't believe how so many leagues could easily make a huge improvement with a better map pool and they just don't do it. Open your eyes!!! What don't you like about it? (I dislike Shakuras/Metal a lot here but they're using Vicious so I can't complain a lot~) I think the biggest issue (if not the only issue) with this map pool is the size of it. Have some balls. Pick good maps. Fuck vetoes. Well with vetoes being a standard for Dreamhack, it is logical for the size to be what it is. The fight has to be picked with having double blind veto, not with the size of the map pool - the latter merely follows as a logical extension of the former.
I guess, but thats kind of a chicken vs egg argument... Does it really matter?
My point is I'd prefer a map pool of 5 set maps, reward the players who take your tournament seriously, and punish those who don't.
I can already see almost every single Korean out there (and probably a good deal of foreigners too) just blindly vetoing both Frigid Pass and Vicious simply because they haven't played on them and don't really want to bother learning them. Booorrrringggg.
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On April 04 2012 02:26 Liquid`NonY wrote:Another ridiculous map pool I can't believe how so many leagues could easily make a huge improvement with a better map pool and they just don't do it. Open your eyes!!!
I'd really like to hear which of the two directions you are going with this.....
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There's only three maps in this pool worth a damn, and two of the maps I don't even recognize.
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On April 04 2012 03:47 Angel_ wrote:
There's only three maps in this pool worth a damn, and two of the maps I don't even recognize.
Hey, I bet those two maps see almost no play time at all. The other 7 will have to do.
Rule #1: Never have more maps than the Ladder.
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Whats the problem with 9 maps lol? Ive never heard that one before, people find new stuff to complain about all the time. If there were 20 awesome maps out there, I certainly wouldnt mind having a tourny use all 20.
Rather point out which maps are bad, why they are bad, and possibly which ones they should be replaced with. That might actually be worth something rather than "bad map pool please learn DreamHack!!!".
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Switzerland2892 Posts
On April 04 2012 04:24 Kreb wrote:
Whats the problem with 9 maps lol? Ive never heard that one before, people find new stuff to complain about all the time. If there were 20 awesome maps out there, I certainly wouldnt mind having a tourny use all 20.
The problem is that the players must train their strategies on them and if there are too many, you can't train optimally
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On April 04 2012 04:28 pPingu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 04:24 Kreb wrote:
Whats the problem with 9 maps lol? Ive never heard that one before, people find new stuff to complain about all the time. If there were 20 awesome maps out there, I certainly wouldnt mind having a tourny use all 20. The problem is that the players must train their strategies on them and if there are too many, you can't train optimally
I swear I would die to hear a map discussion that is not just people repeating what was said on SoTG........
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On April 04 2012 04:32 Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 04:28 pPingu wrote:On April 04 2012 04:24 Kreb wrote:
Whats the problem with 9 maps lol? Ive never heard that one before, people find new stuff to complain about all the time. If there were 20 awesome maps out there, I certainly wouldnt mind having a tourny use all 20. The problem is that the players must train their strategies on them and if there are too many, you can't train optimally I swear I would die to hear a map discussion that is not just people repeating what was said on SoTG........
Why when their arguments are make so much sense and no one has provided a reason for 9 maps in a single event?
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On April 04 2012 04:33 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 04:32 Diamond wrote:On April 04 2012 04:28 pPingu wrote:On April 04 2012 04:24 Kreb wrote:
Whats the problem with 9 maps lol? Ive never heard that one before, people find new stuff to complain about all the time. If there were 20 awesome maps out there, I certainly wouldnt mind having a tourny use all 20. The problem is that the players must train their strategies on them and if there are too many, you can't train optimally I swear I would die to hear a map discussion that is not just people repeating what was said on SoTG........ Why when their arguments are make so much sense and no one has provided a reason for 9 maps in a single event?
What's your argument against besides stuff said on SoTG? Mine is that most players don't do map specific strats and play every single map the same and that excuse is bullshit outside the GSL.
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On April 04 2012 04:33 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 04:32 Diamond wrote:On April 04 2012 04:28 pPingu wrote:On April 04 2012 04:24 Kreb wrote:
Whats the problem with 9 maps lol? Ive never heard that one before, people find new stuff to complain about all the time. If there were 20 awesome maps out there, I certainly wouldnt mind having a tourny use all 20. The problem is that the players must train their strategies on them and if there are too many, you can't train optimally I swear I would die to hear a map discussion that is not just people repeating what was said on SoTG........ Why when their arguments are make so much sense and no one has provided a reason for 9 maps in a single event?
Because it's only like three guys giving their opinion and I've already heard like five other pro players with a completely different opinion.
On April 04 2012 02:48 Adebisi wrote:
I can already see almost every single Korean out there (and probably a good deal of foreigners too) just blindly vetoing both Frigid Pass and Vicious simply because they haven't played on them and don't really want to bother learning them. Booorrrringggg.
Especially Koreans should get increasingly familiar with both Frigid Pass and Vicious because they are currently leading the vote (by far) for being included in the upcoming season of the ESVTV Weekly, so if the Dreamhack guys decide to stick with those maps for a few events, I don't think there should be many issues.
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On April 04 2012 04:33 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 04:32 Diamond wrote:On April 04 2012 04:28 pPingu wrote:On April 04 2012 04:24 Kreb wrote:
Whats the problem with 9 maps lol? Ive never heard that one before, people find new stuff to complain about all the time. If there were 20 awesome maps out there, I certainly wouldnt mind having a tourny use all 20. The problem is that the players must train their strategies on them and if there are too many, you can't train optimally I swear I would die to hear a map discussion that is not just people repeating what was said on SoTG........ Why when their arguments are make so much sense and no one has provided a reason for 9 maps in a single event?
More unique games? Every game looks the same nowadays, while mostly due to the metagame it probably isn't helped at all by the stagnating map pool.
Thanks for the new, unique, maps ESV and DH!
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On April 04 2012 04:28 pPingu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 04:24 Kreb wrote:
Whats the problem with 9 maps lol? Ive never heard that one before, people find new stuff to complain about all the time. If there were 20 awesome maps out there, I certainly wouldnt mind having a tourny use all 20. The problem is that the players must train their strategies on them and if there are too many, you can't train optimally
Well, with the same argument, all tournys should use 3 set maps for all Bo3's, and then add 2 set maps for any possible Bo5's later in the tourny.
Now I can see players want lesser map, but as a viewer, watching Daybreak, Antiga and Cloud Kingdom over and over again gets pretty boring. Variation is good, and 9 maps are hardly getting to the point of a watered out map pool.
Actually, with pretty much every tourny save for GSL (where you know map and opponent at least a week in advance) you're likely gonna practise your everyday skill over map specific strats, considering how you many games against different players you play in short succession over a weekends.
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Don't at all mind new maps, do mind outdated and imbalanced maps - at least when not every race gets a similar imba-map advantage.
There's a reason some maps go out of rotation, whether it's because of imbalance or just the maps having been overplayed. New, even unknown maps are fine, but meta + shakuras => graveyard. I would also much rather see Belshir than Ohana - Ohana may be the single most imbalanced map (in a single match-up). As of today, terrans have a 66% ~winrate versus zerg on the map. As a comparison, steppes of war has a 58 % winrate for terran.. ^^
*Just checked, and it seems metropolis is the Ohana equivalent for zergs, as it favors zergs just about as much vs terran. In that case, I have no problem having Ohana in the map-pool.
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EPT
