Welcome to the Korean StarCraft II League Daily! The KSL is sponsored by own3d.tv and can be viewed as an European event series that features the Korean Pro-Teams. The KSL is a series of daily matches between top Korean players from the teams Prime, NSHoSeo, MVP, ZeNEX, StarTale, Incredible Miracle, FXOpen and Fnatic.
If you're gonna go 2 Stargate -> ~6 Phoenixes -> Twilight -> Charge -> Templar Archives -> Storm on 2 bases, I'd think you'd want to wait until you have a decent number of HTs before engaging. Monster's on Roach/Hydra so if you blanket him with storms you might actually stand a chance. Instead he attacked with only 2 Storms and Monster just ran out of them and Ares had nothing left.
On February 19 2012 23:18 Severian wrote: If you're gonna go 2 Stargate -> ~6 Phoenixes -> Twilight -> Charge -> Templar Archives -> Storm on 2 bases, I'd think you'd want to wait until you have a decent number of HTs before engaging. Monster's on Roach/Hydra so if you blanket him with storms you might actually stand a chance. Instead he attacked with only 2 Storms and Monster just ran out of them and Ares had nothing left.
I think that was a desperation move because of the map. Double StarGate is a good choie because otherwise mutas will kill you. Cant take a 3rd EVER.
On February 19 2012 23:18 Severian wrote: If you're gonna go 2 Stargate -> ~6 Phoenixes -> Twilight -> Charge -> Templar Archives -> Storm on 2 bases, I'd think you'd want to wait until you have a decent number of HTs before engaging. Monster's on Roach/Hydra so if you blanket him with storms you might actually stand a chance. Instead he attacked with only 2 Storms and Monster just ran out of them and Ares had nothing left.
Basically, he had no gas after making 2 stargates, 6 phoenixes, a bunch of sentries, twilight and templar archives.
On February 19 2012 23:43 MCDayC wrote: Khaldor, living the dream. From Soccer with Slayers to casting KSL.
Everytime I think of slayers playing soccer I imagine ryung passing to mma, who scores. Then boxer proceeds to neglect ryung and celebrate only with mma.
On February 19 2012 23:43 MCDayC wrote: Khaldor, living the dream. From Soccer with Slayers to casting KSL.
Everytime I think of slayers playing soccer I imagine ryung passing to mma, who scores. Then boxer proceeds to neglect ryung and celebrate only with mma.
LOL. That was a great game, Monster's muta control is exceptional, but those upgrades make every engagement terrible for him.
Very fun game. Monster didn't get enough done with his big 2 base bust really despite taking out the fast third CC imo. Sacrificed ups and had to power econ after that while aLive only had to rebuild the third and make up for a few scv losses.
Monster mishandled that to be honest, after clearing that 3rd he should have macroed up and upgraded more heavily and he will be safe from any drops with his map control instead of being so aggressive.
Seen too many zerg players try to go for the kill after getting a huge advantage and attacking into a horrible horrible position.
Don't know how good alive will be thinking on his feet. Only reason why he beat MMA was his clever builds and got ahead in the mental game, taking on random opponents sent out to specifically beat you is a little different.
On February 20 2012 00:06 Vertical wrote: who's next from mvp ?
oh oh oh tell me its NaDa
Nada is on CoL.
No reason for MVP to use him anyway, they've got better players and players who can use the competition more.
im hoping for it based on CoL's announcement that he "could" play for mvp in GSTL who knows this might be his chance
fanboyism...
This isn't the GSTL though. GSTL has a mercenary/affiliation thing. No TL guys have ever played for oGs in the KSL as far as I remember etc while they can in the GSTL.
On February 19 2012 23:57 asaed wrote: There's no actual LR for this huh?
This is the LR thread. If you are talking about someone recapping the games, I can't remember the last time anyone did that for the ksl.
Um, LR stands for Live Report. People are discussing the games here, yes, but no one is actually giving a Live Report. They have good ppl LRing for the GSTL so... if i had stream I would but I don't here in SA :T
On February 20 2012 00:06 Vertical wrote: who's next from mvp ?
oh oh oh tell me its NaDa
Nada is on CoL.
No reason for MVP to use him anyway, they've got better players and players who can use the competition more.
im hoping for it based on CoL's announcement that he "could" play for mvp in GSTL who knows this might be his chance
fanboyism...
This isn't the GSTL though. GSTL has a mercenary/affiliation thing. No TL guys have ever played for oGs in the KSL as far as I remember etc while they can in the GSTL.
oGs used Huk once in the ace match when MC was in a slump and Huk was at his best. I forgot against who but they did send Huk.
On February 20 2012 00:06 Vertical wrote: who's next from mvp ?
oh oh oh tell me its NaDa
Nada is on CoL.
No reason for MVP to use him anyway, they've got better players and players who can use the competition more.
im hoping for it based on CoL's announcement that he "could" play for mvp in GSTL who knows this might be his chance
fanboyism...
This isn't the GSTL though. GSTL has a mercenary/affiliation thing. No TL guys have ever played for oGs in the KSL as far as I remember etc while they can in the GSTL.
oGs used Huk once in the ace match when MC was in a slump and Huk was at his best. I forgot against who but they did send Huk.
On February 20 2012 00:13 Grumbels wrote: Do these builds ever fail?
Yes, as soon as stim finishes and medivacs come out. Alive delayed both for 4rax gasless marines followup and only had 1 bunker up when it hit.
Lol, people were blaming Jjakji for rushing to stim+medivacs and having no units when Parting hit this timing push. Now you're saying it was the correct build? No matter what build terran does it's always a bad build according to teamliquid. Just go watch Jjakji - Parting if you want faster tech + 2-3 bunkers.
On February 20 2012 00:06 Vertical wrote: who's next from mvp ?
oh oh oh tell me its NaDa
Nada is on CoL.
No reason for MVP to use him anyway, they've got better players and players who can use the competition more.
im hoping for it based on CoL's announcement that he "could" play for mvp in GSTL who knows this might be his chance
fanboyism...
This isn't the GSTL though. GSTL has a mercenary/affiliation thing. No TL guys have ever played for oGs in the KSL as far as I remember etc while they can in the GSTL.
oGs used Huk once in the ace match when MC was in a slump and Huk was at his best. I forgot against who but they did send Huk.
On February 20 2012 00:13 Grumbels wrote: Do these builds ever fail?
I don;t think so. Alive knew what was coming and made 3 bunkers vs a protoss with 3 nexuses ... this isn't supposed to work :/
it was 2 nexus vs fast 3 cc, if anything this definitely should work
Ok, I wasn't watching closely, just listening to the casters who said Finale plays the same build as Parting ^^ That's why I thought about the quick 3rd nexus.
cc first gets pressured massively by triple nexus gateway pressure. nexus first pressures triple CC massively.
not sure the best way to play against nex first. Maybe the marineking fast third mass bio/ghost play but that feels fragile on some maps. Gumiho's marine/tank/banshee build was nice but I'm not sold on how solid it is against a toss who deosn't try to bust into a tank line regardless.
On February 20 2012 00:06 Vertical wrote: who's next from mvp ?
oh oh oh tell me its NaDa
Nada is on CoL.
No reason for MVP to use him anyway, they've got better players and players who can use the competition more.
im hoping for it based on CoL's announcement that he "could" play for mvp in GSTL who knows this might be his chance
fanboyism...
This isn't the GSTL though. GSTL has a mercenary/affiliation thing. No TL guys have ever played for oGs in the KSL as far as I remember etc while they can in the GSTL.
oGs used Huk once in the ace match when MC was in a slump and Huk was at his best. I forgot against who but they did send Huk.
It was against Prime and he took out Check (Back when he was Code S) then MKP. If i remember correctly MKP did a varient of the two rax maybe with stim vs 1 gate expand?? Anyway HuK crushed it really badly lol
What I hate about this game was it was a blind attack off 2 bases. He didn't even see Alive's additional bases. Still, I think Alive should have rushed to siege mode and defended with Marine/Tank. Not sure on the timings for that with 3 bases though.
On February 20 2012 00:06 Vertical wrote: who's next from mvp ?
oh oh oh tell me its NaDa
Nada is on CoL.
No reason for MVP to use him anyway, they've got better players and players who can use the competition more.
im hoping for it based on CoL's announcement that he "could" play for mvp in GSTL who knows this might be his chance
fanboyism...
This isn't the GSTL though. GSTL has a mercenary/affiliation thing. No TL guys have ever played for oGs in the KSL as far as I remember etc while they can in the GSTL.
oGs used Huk once in the ace match when MC was in a slump and Huk was at his best. I forgot against who but they did send Huk.
It was against Prime and he took out Check (Back when he was Code S) then MKP. If i remember correctly MKP did a varient of the two rax maybe with stim vs 1 gate expand?? Anyway HuK crushed it really badly lol
On February 20 2012 00:06 Vertical wrote: who's next from mvp ?
oh oh oh tell me its NaDa
Nada is on CoL.
No reason for MVP to use him anyway, they've got better players and players who can use the competition more.
im hoping for it based on CoL's announcement that he "could" play for mvp in GSTL who knows this might be his chance
fanboyism...
This isn't the GSTL though. GSTL has a mercenary/affiliation thing. No TL guys have ever played for oGs in the KSL as far as I remember etc while they can in the GSTL.
oGs used Huk once in the ace match when MC was in a slump and Huk was at his best. I forgot against who but they did send Huk.
It was against Prime and he took out Check (Back when he was Code S) then MKP. If i remember correctly MKP did a varient of the two rax maybe with stim vs 1 gate expand?? Anyway HuK crushed it really badly lol
I wanna say it was actually 3 rax stim
It was, back in MKP's gimmicky phase. Anyway this was my point, affiliated/partnered teams can have their players play in the GSTL, but we've not seen that happen in the KSL.
On February 20 2012 00:06 Vertical wrote: who's next from mvp ?
oh oh oh tell me its NaDa
Nada is on CoL.
No reason for MVP to use him anyway, they've got better players and players who can use the competition more.
im hoping for it based on CoL's announcement that he "could" play for mvp in GSTL who knows this might be his chance
fanboyism...
This isn't the GSTL though. GSTL has a mercenary/affiliation thing. No TL guys have ever played for oGs in the KSL as far as I remember etc while they can in the GSTL.
oGs used Huk once in the ace match when MC was in a slump and Huk was at his best. I forgot against who but they did send Huk.
It was against Prime and he took out Check (Back when he was Code S) then MKP. If i remember correctly MKP did a varient of the two rax maybe with stim vs 1 gate expand?? Anyway HuK crushed it really badly lol
I wanna say it was actually 3 rax stim
It was, back in MKP's gimmicky phase. Anyway this was my point, affiliated/partnered teams can have their players play in the GSTL, but we've not seen that happen in the KSL.
On February 20 2012 00:06 Vertical wrote: who's next from mvp ?
oh oh oh tell me its NaDa
Nada is on CoL.
No reason for MVP to use him anyway, they've got better players and players who can use the competition more.
im hoping for it based on CoL's announcement that he "could" play for mvp in GSTL who knows this might be his chance
fanboyism...
This isn't the GSTL though. GSTL has a mercenary/affiliation thing. No TL guys have ever played for oGs in the KSL as far as I remember etc while they can in the GSTL.
oGs used Huk once in the ace match when MC was in a slump and Huk was at his best. I forgot against who but they did send Huk.
It was against Prime and he took out Check (Back when he was Code S) then MKP. If i remember correctly MKP did a varient of the two rax maybe with stim vs 1 gate expand?? Anyway HuK crushed it really badly lol
I wanna say it was actually 3 rax stim
Ahhk, i wasn't sure. For some reason i thought it was a two rax which is why he got ragged on after the game by the many professional Sc2 analysists that make the TL forums their main habitat lol although he could have done a 1-1-1 and people would still say "WHY DID YOU DO THAT MKP, NOOB"
regarding lag: mine was fixed after going to own3d.tv to watch the stream rather then watching the embedded on TL ... was able to go from 360 regular screen to 480p full screen aswell.
I am so fucking happy that protoss players are beginning to play more full macro games, being comfortable with their play, instead of just doing gateway timings.
Finale is pretty boss, Leenock, Oz, Gumiho now aLive. thats 3 code S Semi finalists and a finalist. In mostly macro games wow.
On February 20 2012 00:06 Vertical wrote: who's next from mvp ?
oh oh oh tell me its NaDa
Nada is on CoL.
No reason for MVP to use him anyway, they've got better players and players who can use the competition more.
im hoping for it based on CoL's announcement that he "could" play for mvp in GSTL who knows this might be his chance
fanboyism...
This isn't the GSTL though. GSTL has a mercenary/affiliation thing. No TL guys have ever played for oGs in the KSL as far as I remember etc while they can in the GSTL.
oGs used Huk once in the ace match when MC was in a slump and Huk was at his best. I forgot against who but they did send Huk.
It was against Prime and he took out Check (Back when he was Code S) then MKP. If i remember correctly MKP did a varient of the two rax maybe with stim vs 1 gate expand?? Anyway HuK crushed it really badly lol
I wanna say it was actually 3 rax stim
It was, back in MKP's gimmicky phase. Anyway this was my point, affiliated/partnered teams can have their players play in the GSTL, but we've not seen that happen in the KSL.
On February 20 2012 00:38 Herry wrote: I am so fucking happy that protoss players are beginning to play more full macro games, being comfortable with their play, instead of just doing gateway timings.
Finale is pretty boss, Leenock, Oz, Gumiho now aLive. thats 3 code S Semi finalists and a finalist. In mostly macro games wow.
Try playing macro against S-Class zegr. It wont work
On February 20 2012 00:06 Vertical wrote: who's next from mvp ?
oh oh oh tell me its NaDa
Nada is on CoL.
No reason for MVP to use him anyway, they've got better players and players who can use the competition more.
im hoping for it based on CoL's announcement that he "could" play for mvp in GSTL who knows this might be his chance
fanboyism...
This isn't the GSTL though. GSTL has a mercenary/affiliation thing. No TL guys have ever played for oGs in the KSL as far as I remember etc while they can in the GSTL.
oGs used Huk once in the ace match when MC was in a slump and Huk was at his best. I forgot against who but they did send Huk.
It was against Prime and he took out Check (Back when he was Code S) then MKP. If i remember correctly MKP did a varient of the two rax maybe with stim vs 1 gate expand?? Anyway HuK crushed it really badly lol
I wanna say it was actually 3 rax stim
It was, back in MKP's gimmicky phase. Anyway this was my point, affiliated/partnered teams can have their players play in the GSTL, but we've not seen that happen in the KSL.
On February 20 2012 00:06 Vertical wrote: who's next from mvp ?
oh oh oh tell me its NaDa
Nada is on CoL.
No reason for MVP to use him anyway, they've got better players and players who can use the competition more.
im hoping for it based on CoL's announcement that he "could" play for mvp in GSTL who knows this might be his chance
fanboyism...
This isn't the GSTL though. GSTL has a mercenary/affiliation thing. No TL guys have ever played for oGs in the KSL as far as I remember etc while they can in the GSTL.
oGs used Huk once in the ace match when MC was in a slump and Huk was at his best. I forgot against who but they did send Huk.
It was against Prime and he took out Check (Back when he was Code S) then MKP. If i remember correctly MKP did a varient of the two rax maybe with stim vs 1 gate expand?? Anyway HuK crushed it really badly lol
I wanna say it was actually 3 rax stim
It was, back in MKP's gimmicky phase. Anyway this was my point, affiliated/partnered teams can have their players play in the GSTL, but we've not seen that happen in the KSL.
It was a phase?
Heyyoooooo!!! How did departure get such a lead?
Z always has a supply advantage against p in the midgame
Why is departure not making corruptors, teching to infestor or committing to mass muta? This tunnel visioning is killing me.
edit:
Not to take away from Finale, he played well; however, his blink stalker control versus banelings and Departure's lack of tech switching / poor engagements won him that game.
On February 20 2012 00:35 HaruRH wrote: Lol classic PvZ here, most likely a dead P
Can you repeat it once again? Finale like a boss.
Nerchio in the ksl thread, welcome! :D
___
Really nicely played by finale, protoss players are getting so good at dealing with mutas now. Also, I feel as though you have to get a few infestors if you want to you ling bling muta in pvz otherwise blink virtually nullifies the banlings.
On February 20 2012 00:35 HaruRH wrote: Lol classic PvZ here, most likely a dead P
Can you repeat it once again? Finale like a boss.
Nerchio in the ksl thread, welcome! :D
___
Really nicely played by finale, protoss players are getting so good at dealing with mutas now. Also, I feel as though you have to get a few infestors if you want to you ling bling muta in pvz otherwise blink virtually nullifies the banlings.
If Departure's first attack with roaches did something other than dying and Departure went for Ling/infestor/corruptors he would be fine lol.
On February 20 2012 00:35 HaruRH wrote: Lol classic PvZ here, most likely a dead P
Can you repeat it once again? Finale like a boss.
Nerchio in the ksl thread, welcome! :D
___
Really nicely played by finale, protoss players are getting so good at dealing with mutas now. Also, I feel as though you have to get a few infestors if you want to you ling bling muta in pvz otherwise blink virtually nullifies the banlings.
If Departure's first attack with roaches did something other than dying and Departure went for Ling/infestor/corruptors he would be fine lol.
I'd argue that Finale's passiveness made Departure's initial failure not matter in the grand scheme of that game. Departure consistently made poor engagements nor deviated from a losing composition.
On February 20 2012 00:35 HaruRH wrote: Lol classic PvZ here, most likely a dead P
Can you repeat it once again? Finale like a boss.
Nerchio in the ksl thread, welcome! :D
___
Really nicely played by finale, protoss players are getting so good at dealing with mutas now. Also, I feel as though you have to get a few infestors if you want to you ling bling muta in pvz otherwise blink virtually nullifies the banlings.
If Departure's first attack with roaches did something other than dying and Departure went for Ling/infestor/corruptors he would be fine lol.
I'd argue that Finale's passiveness made Departure's initial failure not matter in the grand scheme of that game. Departure consistently made poor engagements nor deviated from a losing composition.
On February 20 2012 00:38 Herry wrote: I am so fucking happy that protoss players are beginning to play more full macro games, being comfortable with their play, instead of just doing gateway timings.
Finale is pretty boss, Leenock, Oz, Gumiho now aLive. thats 3 code S Semi finalists and a finalist. In mostly macro games wow.
Try playing macro against S-Class zegr. It wont work
On February 20 2012 00:52 Babyfactory wrote: Rain doing a 1-1-1? It's almost like he never cheesed his way through the GSL.
I dont get why rain gets so much hate, he was the one player who actully gave MC some opposition during GSL when MC slaugtered everyone else during that GSL.
Also everyone 1-1-1s on DS. Terrible build from finale tho
On February 20 2012 00:35 HaruRH wrote: Lol classic PvZ here, most likely a dead P
Can you repeat it once again? Finale like a boss.
Nerchio in the ksl thread, welcome! :D
___
Really nicely played by finale, protoss players are getting so good at dealing with mutas now. Also, I feel as though you have to get a few infestors if you want to you ling bling muta in pvz otherwise blink virtually nullifies the banlings.
If Departure's first attack with roaches did something other than dying and Departure went for Ling/infestor/corruptors he would be fine lol.
I'd argue that Finale's passiveness made Departure's initial failure not matter in the grand scheme of that game. Departure consistently made poor engagements nor deviated from a losing composition.
We're talking about the exact same thing
Well... the last part we are
Finale didn't do anything to capitalize on Departure's attack and Departure was able to go from a supply deficit to get 50+ supply ahead and two bases up. So, departure really didn't need to do anything with that roach attack and ling run by.
But yes, semantics.
Lol @ Rain putting Finale in this situation after having his 1-1-1 scouted before the banshee really "started" (it was started but cancelled immediately for a viking).
don't see how 1 gate expo into robo wouldn't have been a better choice? Get the expansion up earlier with scouting from his obs and can get more units cause of that?
On February 20 2012 00:52 Babyfactory wrote: Rain doing a 1-1-1? It's almost like he never cheesed his way through the GSL.
I don't understand what your point is, he stated lack of preparation for cheesing in the gsl and then played macro games vs hongun and MC and did fine. I mean it's not like he didn't beat MMA at MLG or anything..
Finale should not have rushed the phoenix so fast over to the base. If the banshee had been made and flown towards the toss base, it would be dead. Also losing that first phoenix was just overconfidence.
On February 20 2012 00:57 poorcloud wrote: don't see how 1 gate expo into robo wouldn't have been a better choice? Get the expansion up earlier with scouting from his obs and can get more units cause of that?
Protoss have this weird idea of stargate play with pheonix to counter tanks and banshee, but in the end, there's always 20/25 marines with the push soo..
1gate nexus into 3gate robo with full units production seems always better at holding the 1-1-1 i think.
On February 20 2012 00:57 poorcloud wrote: don't see how 1 gate expo into robo wouldn't have been a better choice? Get the expansion up earlier with scouting from his obs and can get more units cause of that?
Protoss have this weird idea of stargate play with pheonix to counter tanks and banshee, but in the end, there's always 20/25 marines with the push soo..
1gate nexus into 3gate robo with full units production seems always better at holding the 1-1-1 i think.
On February 20 2012 00:52 Babyfactory wrote: Rain doing a 1-1-1? It's almost like he never cheesed his way through the GSL.
I don't understand what your point is, he stated lack of preparation for cheesing in the gsl and then played macro games vs hongun and MC and did fine. I mean it's not like he didn't beat MMA at MLG or anything..
On February 20 2012 00:52 Babyfactory wrote: Rain doing a 1-1-1? It's almost like he never cheesed his way through the GSL.
I dont get why rain gets so much hate, he was the one player who actully gave MC some opposition during GSL when MC slaugtered everyone else during that GSL.
Also everyone 1-1-1s on DS. Terrible build from finale tho
Rain was (and still is) just a more refined version of Bit-by-Bit. His games just aren't interesting to watch most of the time because of his overly aggressive style or gimmicky play.
and no... he did not give MC any trouble in the GSL finals.
On February 20 2012 00:52 Babyfactory wrote: Rain doing a 1-1-1? It's almost like he never cheesed his way through the GSL.
I don't understand what your point is, he stated lack of preparation for cheesing in the gsl and then played macro games vs hongun and MC and did fine. I mean it's not like he didn't beat MMA at MLG or anything..
On February 20 2012 00:57 poorcloud wrote: don't see how 1 gate expo into robo wouldn't have been a better choice? Get the expansion up earlier with scouting from his obs and can get more units cause of that?
Protoss have this weird idea of stargate play with pheonix to counter tanks and banshee, but in the end, there's always 20/25 marines with the push soo..
1gate nexus into 3gate robo with full units production seems always better at holding the 1-1-1 i think.
You can go fenix scouting deny banshee and back at home go 4 gate twilight with lots of charge zealots with a couple of sentries for ffs to couter 111 too. MC did that against Rain and never failed. Of course, execution is the key.
On February 20 2012 00:52 Babyfactory wrote: Rain doing a 1-1-1? It's almost like he never cheesed his way through the GSL.
I don't understand what your point is, he stated lack of preparation for cheesing in the gsl and then played macro games vs hongun and MC and did fine. I mean it's not like he didn't beat MMA at MLG or anything..
So, he manages to get on a hot streak in the group bracket and then lose 2-1 to BoxeR and 2-0 to GanZi? I'm glad you're using that one time frame as the crux of your argument.
edit:
How about his 3-2 group performance in the next MLG and losing to Sjow 2-0? With his only wins being over inControl, Machine, TriMaster, and Naniwa...
On February 20 2012 00:57 poorcloud wrote: don't see how 1 gate expo into robo wouldn't have been a better choice? Get the expansion up earlier with scouting from his obs and can get more units cause of that?
Protoss have this weird idea of stargate play with pheonix to counter tanks and banshee, but in the end, there's always 20/25 marines with the push soo..
1gate nexus into 3gate robo with full units production seems always better at holding the 1-1-1 i think.
You can go fenix scouting deny banshee and back at home go 4 gate twilight with lots of charge zealots with a couple of sentries for ffs to couter 111 too. MC did that against Rain and never failed. Of course, execution is the key.
Yeah, but pheonix into robo for immortal ? You just don't have enough gateway units imo.
On February 20 2012 00:52 Babyfactory wrote: Rain doing a 1-1-1? It's almost like he never cheesed his way through the GSL.
I dont get why rain gets so much hate, he was the one player who actully gave MC some opposition during GSL when MC slaugtered everyone else during that GSL.
Also everyone 1-1-1s on DS. Terrible build from finale tho
Rain was (and still is) just a more refined version of Bit-by-Bit. His games just aren't interesting to watch most of the time because of his overly aggressive style or gimmicky play.
and no... he did not give MC any trouble in the GSL finals.
On February 20 2012 00:57 poorcloud wrote: don't see how 1 gate expo into robo wouldn't have been a better choice? Get the expansion up earlier with scouting from his obs and can get more units cause of that?
Protoss have this weird idea of stargate play with pheonix to counter tanks and banshee, but in the end, there's always 20/25 marines with the push soo..
1gate nexus into 3gate robo with full units production seems always better at holding the 1-1-1 i think.
You can go fenix scouting deny banshee and back at home go 4 gate twilight with lots of charge zealots with a couple of sentries for ffs to couter 111 too. MC did that against Rain and never failed. Of course, execution is the key.
Yeah, but pheonix into robo for immortal ? You just don't have enough gateway units imo.
He needed detectors for cloaked banshees but he should know rain did not research cloak with the air scout. He did not play it right anyways. It is not like phenix opening can not deal with 111.
I'm utterly shocked that ToD could play so horribly in that engagement. On princicple alone he doesn't deserve to win this game!
Edit: Not taking anything away from Keen. Though with such a huge upgrade advantage and that army, to allow both nexus's to go down, even 1 nexus, was fail.
On February 20 2012 01:32 poorcloud wrote: Keen is really good. I don't think i seen any other terran players make such engagements and sneaking groups of MM as creatively as Keen is.
Keen would probably be a contender for ro4 of Code S.
On February 20 2012 01:32 SCST wrote: I'm utterly shocked that ToD could play so horribly in that engagement. On princicple alone he doesn't deserve to win this game!
Edit: Not taking anything away from Keen. Though with such a huge upgrade advantage and that army, to allow both nexus's to go down, even 1 nexus, was fail.
Agreed, towards the end ToD started to falter and went tilt. He shouldn't of been chasing down armies and he was constantly trapping his chargelots behind his stalkers.
I can see him losing the 3rd base as acceptable, but the loss of the second was just very good execution by keen and an oversight by ToD.
edit:
However, this shouldn't take away from ToD overall... it was just a player hitting tilt. I expect to see results from him in the future.
I wonder if the second caster (Shuffle?) actually believes the rant he went on before the final game. He namedrops idra and huk and says that ToD is completely capable of beating players like Keen, that is simply not the case. ToD got outplayed in every way this game and it should have not have been a surprise at all. Every foreigner but Sen was knocked out of the first round of Code A. I understand this is just 1 tournament with a set format, but if foreigners are in Korea, then the point is GSL.
As much as people say it isn't the case, results show that the only people beating Koreans are other Koreans. Naniwa showed promise and has completely failed to deliver. Idra was once the great foreigner hope and had a really good run in GSL, but has failed to deliver. Huk has taken out Koreans in foreign tournaments, but where it counts, he has failed to deliver.
Until we start getting foreigners to qualify for GSL (so far every single foreigner since the Code A/S format has been a seed) I can't understand how anyone can honestly believe that foreigners are on the same level as Koreans.
On February 20 2012 01:50 zelah wrote: I wonder if the second caster (Shuffle?) actually believes the rant he went on before the final game. He namedrops idra and huk and says that ToD is completely capable of beating players like Keen, that is simply not the case. ToD got outplayed in every way this game and it should have not have been a surprise at all. Every foreigner but Sen was knocked out of the first round of Code A. I understand this is just 1 tournament with a set format, but if foreigners are in Korea, then the point is GSL.
As much as people say it isn't the case, results show that the only people beating Koreans are other Koreans. Naniwa showed promise and has completely failed to deliver. Idra was once the great foreigner hope and had a really good run in GSL, but has failed to deliver. Huk has taken out Koreans in foreign tournaments, but where it counts, he has failed to deliver.
Until we start getting foreigners to qualify for GSL (so far every single foreigner since the Code A/S format has been a seed) I can't understand how anyone can honestly believe that foreigners are on the same level as Koreans.
ToD can beat any korean terran except the top TvP (MKP, Polt, JjakjiL etc).
On February 20 2012 01:50 zelah wrote: I wonder if the second caster (Shuffle?) actually believes the rant he went on before the final game. He namedrops idra and huk and says that ToD is completely capable of beating players like Keen, that is simply not the case. ToD got outplayed in every way this game and it should have not have been a surprise at all. Every foreigner but Sen was knocked out of the first round of Code A. I understand this is just 1 tournament with a set format, but if foreigners are in Korea, then the point is GSL.
As much as people say it isn't the case, results show that the only people beating Koreans are other Koreans. Naniwa showed promise and has completely failed to deliver. Idra was once the great foreigner hope and had a really good run in GSL, but has failed to deliver. Huk has taken out Koreans in foreign tournaments, but where it counts, he has failed to deliver.
Until we start getting foreigners to qualify for GSL (so far every single foreigner since the Code A/S format has been a seed) I can't understand how anyone can honestly believe that foreigners are on the same level as Koreans.
On February 20 2012 01:50 zelah wrote: I wonder if the second caster (Shuffle?) actually believes the rant he went on before the final game. He namedrops idra and huk and says that ToD is completely capable of beating players like Keen, that is simply not the case. ToD got outplayed in every way this game and it should have not have been a surprise at all. Every foreigner but Sen was knocked out of the first round of Code A. I understand this is just 1 tournament with a set format, but if foreigners are in Korea, then the point is GSL.
As much as people say it isn't the case, results show that the only people beating Koreans are other Koreans. Naniwa showed promise and has completely failed to deliver. Idra was once the great foreigner hope and had a really good run in GSL, but has failed to deliver. Huk has taken out Koreans in foreign tournaments, but where it counts, he has failed to deliver.
Until we start getting foreigners to qualify for GSL (so far every single foreigner since the Code A/S format has been a seed) I can't understand how anyone can honestly believe that foreigners are on the same level as Koreans.
ToD can beat any korean terran except the top TvP (MKP, Polt, JjakjiL etc).
Apparently not? Keen isn't top TvP? ToD has some potential and can sneak out a couple of bo1 wins maybe. But in a set bo3+ I don't see him beating any A class Korean Terrans and most B team terrans....
On February 20 2012 02:19 Severian wrote: That was the same tournament that MVP beat Prime in the finals without using DRG, so I think your point kinda backfired.
Yeah but still MVP got his ass saved a lot of times by DRG 3 killing =P (vs oGs and other teams)
On February 20 2012 01:50 zelah wrote: I wonder if the second caster (Shuffle?) actually believes the rant he went on before the final game. He namedrops idra and huk and says that ToD is completely capable of beating players like Keen, that is simply not the case. ToD got outplayed in every way this game and it should have not have been a surprise at all. Every foreigner but Sen was knocked out of the first round of Code A. I understand this is just 1 tournament with a set format, but if foreigners are in Korea, then the point is GSL.
As much as people say it isn't the case, results show that the only people beating Koreans are other Koreans. Naniwa showed promise and has completely failed to deliver. Idra was once the great foreigner hope and had a really good run in GSL, but has failed to deliver. Huk has taken out Koreans in foreign tournaments, but where it counts, he has failed to deliver.
Until we start getting foreigners to qualify for GSL (so far every single foreigner since the Code A/S format has been a seed) I can't understand how anyone can honestly believe that foreigners are on the same level as Koreans.
Hey,
Absolutely I believe it and perhaps I came across a little forced in my rant so hopefully I can provide a little bit of context here. Ultimately I'm of the opinion that it's a matter of perspective. From your perspective what you observe is the televised games of the GSL code A, S and then of course the offline qualifiers. In those tournaments, the overwhelming message is yes, foriegners lose to koreans and just are not on the same level. I can't fault you for having that opinion nor can I see how it is anything but logical that you come to that observation.
However where my point comes across is in terms of what I see both in these GSL games in terms of depth and also (mainly) what i see outside these games. I totally understand ladder and the GSL two completely different sides of the coin but when i sit next to a player like tod who holds a comfortable position in the korean GM league and routinely day in day out goes through the players you watch in the GSL in anything but great macro games. When i get to watch those replays and see that these players weren't dicking around and were giving the games a damn good shot I come to the conclusion game after game that this Isn't a fluke, the upper echelon on foriegners can certainly hang with koreans. Please don't read this as "Hey top foriegners are code S round of 16 material" but rather as "top performing forigners are toe to toe with many korean A-teamers"
Foriegners don't qualify for Code A because all the brackets of 32 have a considerable bunch of korean A teamers in each. The amount of foriegners that actually participate in the qualifiers is quite minimal, I don't think it's suprising at all we haven't seen anyone qualify yet. That being said foriegners certainly are not pushovers though, many players still make the Ro8 or Ro4.
Ultimately the sample size you're privy to is much smaller than mine. I don't mean to present this condescendingly, but merely as the substantiation to my point of view. I'm not shocked nor suprised you believe that koreans are totally dominant, in televised gsl matches there is nothing to support the contrary, however i feel after a while living in korea with those foreigners and koreans together practicing, your point of view changes.
Wooooh!! I missed the last half, but fuck yeah it's awesome to see Keen do well. If he stopped running into Nada I think people would finally notice that's he's been a top 10 Terran for months now. <3
Just taken another look at the summary of the entire league and damn, what a nice start. Great showings by Zenextreme and MaruPrime. When they will be more prominent in the starcraft 2 scene, everybody will claim that they new it after seeing the KSL.
Fnatic should aquire 1-2 more Top Koreans, if they have the budget to buy Moon and aLive, there should be smth left to aquire Polt, who would have manhandled MVPs Protoss players Finale and probably Genius. TvP is known to be aLives weakest matchup, so its kind of hard to make an all kill.
Moon isnt at the level to compete right now, but there are still years to learn the game. He should make the leap within the next 8 months. Right now I dont know if its a wise choice to throw him out in Teamleagues.
Also, Rain did fairly "ok", hes better than Moon and ToD right now.
On February 20 2012 01:50 zelah wrote: I wonder if the second caster (Shuffle?) actually believes the rant he went on before the final game. He namedrops idra and huk and says that ToD is completely capable of beating players like Keen, that is simply not the case. ToD got outplayed in every way this game and it should have not have been a surprise at all. Every foreigner but Sen was knocked out of the first round of Code A. I understand this is just 1 tournament with a set format, but if foreigners are in Korea, then the point is GSL.
As much as people say it isn't the case, results show that the only people beating Koreans are other Koreans. Naniwa showed promise and has completely failed to deliver. Idra was once the great foreigner hope and had a really good run in GSL, but has failed to deliver. Huk has taken out Koreans in foreign tournaments, but where it counts, he has failed to deliver.
Until we start getting foreigners to qualify for GSL (so far every single foreigner since the Code A/S format has been a seed) I can't understand how anyone can honestly believe that foreigners are on the same level as Koreans.
You forget stephano. He doesn't want to live in Korea so he said he won't try to play in GSL but his level is at least equivalent to the GSL code A upper level imo. His performance at Blizzard Cup was by far the best of all the foreigners that were there.
On February 20 2012 14:19 GodOfWar wrote: Fnatic should aquire 1-2 more Top Koreans, if they have the budget to buy Moon and aLive, there should be smth left to aquire Polt, who would have manhandled MVPs Protoss players Finale and probably Genius. TvP is known to be aLives weakest matchup, so its kind of hard to make an all kill.
Moon isnt at the level to compete right now, but there are still years to learn the game. He should make the leap within the next 8 months. Right now I dont know if its a wise choice to throw him out in Teamleagues.
Moon is a fucking good player and has the results to back it up. That said, it was a foolish decision to send him for a ZvZ.
On February 20 2012 14:19 GodOfWar wrote: Fnatic should aquire 1-2 more Top Koreans, if they have the budget to buy Moon and aLive, there should be smth left to aquire Polt, who would have manhandled MVPs Protoss players Finale and probably Genius. TvP is known to be aLives weakest matchup, so its kind of hard to make an all kill.
Moon isnt at the level to compete right now, but there are still years to learn the game. He should make the leap within the next 8 months. Right now I dont know if its a wise choice to throw him out in Teamleagues.
Moon is a fucking good player and has the results to back it up. That said, it was a foolish decision to send him for a ZvZ.
Not really, Iam the biggest Moon Fanboy ever since he destroyed (under aka "Calcium") the US Ladders back in 2003, when no one even recognized him, but I also know about his current social life, being married and having a family to take care of.
He does need more time, and I think the competition is way too high for him at KSL, where the worlds best teams compete.
That being said, I wish Fnatic to expand their Korean Lineup, and establish their Teamhouse. The team has gained enough prestige and momentum right now to recruit more players.
Incidentally, and this is totally not about the matches, but speaking of Moon's family ... does anyone know if Moon's baby is a boy or a girl? I remember Seltzer saying he has a kid now. :O
I admit I get weirded out whenever I think about it. "OMG MOON PROCREATED? WTF?"
This will be Awesome to watch! I am going to cheer for MVP even though FnaticRC looks like a SICK lineup ! I love finale's play;) GL HF Both !! Can't wait!
On February 20 2012 18:23 GGzerG wrote: This will be Awesome to watch! I am going to cheer for MVP even though FnaticRC looks like a SICK lineup ! I love finale's play;) GL HF Both !! Can't wait!
EPT![[image loading]](http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/3636/kslbanner.png)
Korean StarCraft II League Daily! The KSL is sponsored by own3d.tv and can be viewed as an European event series that features the Korean Pro-Teams. The KSL is a series of daily matches between top Korean players from the teams Prime, NSHoSeo, MVP, ZeNEX, StarTale, Incredible Miracle, FXOpen and Fnatic.![[image loading]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2209631/tlwork/ksl/00/ksl_lineups.jpg)
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MVPMonster < Crossfire SE >![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Picon_small.png)
FnaticRC.Ares![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/2084.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1988.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_JBA_90Mrxsw/THOZlkQuc9I/AAAAAAAAKnY/RiSZRStK9wg/s640/cute-puppies.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2209631/tlwork/ksl/00/ksl_results.jpg)
FnaticRC.aLive
MVPfinale < Metropolis > ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/t5wZl.gif)
![[image loading]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2209631/tlwork/ksl/00/ksl_stream.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/4555/own3dresize.png)
Keen and Noblesse could kill him aswell
