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On February 15 2012 00:01 natebreen wrote:
Perhaps I'm confused and someone will surely correct me, but doesn't this bring up the issue that was discussed during Naniwa's incident about what is a "real" build and what is throwing the game?
Xeris forfeits Idra's $100 for 6 pooling twice, in his mind throwing the games.
However, Lucky just beat MMA with six pools in a bo3 on what is a larger stage in the MLG qualifiers.
I guess it's just on a case-by-case basis with the judgment of the tournament organizers to establish what is "cheese" and what is throwing the game?
Seems odd.
most people aren't retarded and therefore could see quite clearly that 6pool or not, idra's performance in the showmatch was one of pure discontent and lack of integrity.
therefore we can conclude that idra thought it would be better use of his time if he 'threw away' the showmatch, and couldn't care less about the viewers or NASL. displays like this reflect badly on idra, EG and the sc2 community. sc2 disrepute here we come choochoo!
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On February 15 2012 01:01 shizna wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 00:01 natebreen wrote:
Perhaps I'm confused and someone will surely correct me, but doesn't this bring up the issue that was discussed during Naniwa's incident about what is a "real" build and what is throwing the game?
Xeris forfeits Idra's $100 for 6 pooling twice, in his mind throwing the games.
However, Lucky just beat MMA with six pools in a bo3 on what is a larger stage in the MLG qualifiers.
I guess it's just on a case-by-case basis with the judgment of the tournament organizers to establish what is "cheese" and what is throwing the game?
Seems odd. most people aren't retarded and therefore could see quite clearly that idra's performance in the showmatch was one of pure discontent and lack of integrity. therefore we can conclude that idra thought it would be better use of his time if he 'threw away' the showmatch, and couldn't care less about the viewers or NASL. displays like this reflect badly on idra, EG and the sc2 community. sc2 disrepute here we come choochoo!
Again, you're really not addressing what I'm saying.
Personal opinion doesn't really change the nature of the topic.
From a rules standpoint would it have been acceptable if Idra did a 2-base all-in vs. a 6 pool?
It would look, as said on SOTG, like a serious build to 99% of viewers, but high level players and those who study the game would know it was not trying.
Basically I'm not arguing that he didn't throw the match, but I'm arguing that forfeiting his prize should only be done under strict violation of rules.
Doing it absent of a hard-lined rule sets a horrible precedent for how tournaments and players interact, much like all the GSL/MLG backpedaling about Naniwa's spot and his incident.
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On February 15 2012 00:44 natebreen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 00:12 halfies wrote:On February 15 2012 00:01 natebreen wrote:
Perhaps I'm confused and someone will surely correct me, but doesn't this bring up the issue that was discussed during Naniwa's incident about what is a "real" build and what is throwing the game?
Xeris forfeits Idra's $100 for 6 pooling twice, in his mind throwing the games.
However, Lucky just beat MMA with six pools in a bo3 on what is a larger stage in the MLG qualifiers.
I guess it's just on a case-by-case basis with the judgment of the tournament organizers to establish what is "cheese" and what is throwing the game?
Seems odd. its not odd at all. idra had almost no chance of winning with them. maybe the first one would have been fine, but teh second one was just retarded. also, the fact that he always leaves early also helps point us all in the direction of Idra not giving a fuck about these matches. You really didn't respond to what I said. Again, you're purporting that Idra 6 pooling is somehow different than Lucky 6 pooling. How so? Yes, you can make inferences or assumptions based on who he is and his character in general, but if we're going to be taking money away from players, or punishing them in the case of naniwa, there needs to be some serious hard-coded rules. Just leaving it up to tournament organizers to take away someone's prize money at their own discretion sets a VERY bad precedent for an "esport."
its different because of the execution and the context. if you cant be bothered to read the thread before you post, and therefore post the same thing that has been posted, and responded to, throughout the whole thread i don't think its worth me explaining to you any more than that.
please don't use the 'you didnt respond' card when your poor point gets responded to in a way you dont like. i evidently did respond, which is why i quoted it. you can say that there are flaws in my response, but you cant say i didnt respond.
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I dont think nasl amde himg ive the money back.... I think EG made himg ive the moneyback. There is a HUGE difference and the point you are arguing is moot.
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On February 15 2012 01:20 stratmatt wrote:
I dont think nasl amde himg ive the money back.... I think EG made himg ive the moneyback. There is a HUGE difference and the point you are arguing is moot.
Well the language is ambiguous.
Xeris said his prize money was "forfeited."
People use that to mean both that the person could have voluntarily done it, AND that the money was forfeited, but by the league.
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The only question I have is why anyone is surprised. Idra's shown a remarkable lack of respect for other gamers as well as institutions he relies upon to make his living. This is just another example of that.
OTOH, I can see why people don't think this is as big of a deal as Nani's probe rush or Stephano's AFKing a tournament. This was a relatively (to those other events) minor show match. Idra rightly forfeited the money and hopefully more folks will reconize that when they invite Idra to something, there's a fair-to-decent chance that they're paying for a petulant child rather than a professional gamer.
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On February 15 2012 01:21 natebreen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 01:20 stratmatt wrote:
I dont think nasl amde himg ive the money back.... I think EG made himg ive the moneyback. There is a HUGE difference and the point you are arguing is moot. Well the language is ambiguous. Xeris said his prize money was "forfeited." People use that to mean both that the person could have voluntarily done it, AND that the money was forfeited, but by the league.
Forfeited usually implies that it was the decision of the competitor....
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On February 15 2012 01:30 stratmatt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 01:21 natebreen wrote:On February 15 2012 01:20 stratmatt wrote:
I dont think nasl amde himg ive the money back.... I think EG made himg ive the moneyback. There is a HUGE difference and the point you are arguing is moot. Well the language is ambiguous. Xeris said his prize money was "forfeited." People use that to mean both that the person could have voluntarily done it, AND that the money was forfeited, but by the league. Forfeited usually implies that it was the decision of the competitor....
Not at all.
Maybe as a directed verb, like "He forfeited the money."
But in this case when it's phrased "his money was forfeited," the do-er is ambiguous.
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On February 15 2012 01:04 natebreen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 01:01 shizna wrote:On February 15 2012 00:01 natebreen wrote:
Perhaps I'm confused and someone will surely correct me, but doesn't this bring up the issue that was discussed during Naniwa's incident about what is a "real" build and what is throwing the game?
Xeris forfeits Idra's $100 for 6 pooling twice, in his mind throwing the games.
However, Lucky just beat MMA with six pools in a bo3 on what is a larger stage in the MLG qualifiers.
I guess it's just on a case-by-case basis with the judgment of the tournament organizers to establish what is "cheese" and what is throwing the game?
Seems odd. most people aren't retarded and therefore could see quite clearly that idra's performance in the showmatch was one of pure discontent and lack of integrity. therefore we can conclude that idra thought it would be better use of his time if he 'threw away' the showmatch, and couldn't care less about the viewers or NASL. displays like this reflect badly on idra, EG and the sc2 community. sc2 disrepute here we come choochoo! Again, you're really not addressing what I'm saying. Personal opinion doesn't really change the nature of the topic. From a rules standpoint would it have been acceptable if Idra did a 2-base all-in vs. a 6 pool? It would look, as said on SOTG, like a serious build to 99% of viewers, but high level players and those who study the game would know it was not trying. Basically I'm not arguing that he didn't throw the match, but I'm arguing that forfeiting his prize should only be done under strict violation of rules. Doing it absent of a hard-lined rule sets a horrible precedent for how tournaments and players interact, much like all the GSL/MLG backpedaling about Naniwa's spot and his incident.
stop fooling yourself with the semantics of an 'all-in'... most players will recognise that they're playing a sponsored SHOWMATCH to provide entertainment first and foremost. you're being dumb if you think that people will continue to put prize money forward for these showmatches if the players are likely to splutter diarrhea into your minestrone..
trying cheese or an all-in is perfectly acceptable, but if it doesn't work out you at least have to ATTEMPT a follow up strategy to fulfill your end of the bargain as a player - create an ENTERTAINING CONTEST... instead of doing an idra which was "oh my 6pool failed... F10+N".
imagine a boxing match where a player goes in for an instant haymaker at the start of the first round. there's nothing wrong which such a risky strategy... but if you apply the analogy to this showmatch series, idra attempted the haymaker which alive successfully parried, then idra just lay on the floor and waited for the count. many people would rightfully consider that a form of CHEATING because you're ripping people off.
ffs if idra doesn't want to play showmatches why not agree 'wacky' strategies or AT LEAST FKING SCRIPT SOMETHING ENTERTAINING... that would be preferable to this humiliating waste of time.
great idea - bo7 showmatches no longer reward the 'winner' with first prize. the prize goes to the player with the most ingenious play. judged by the casters, viewers or special guest's like TLO etc. there we go, no more disgraced showmatches.
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oh man this series.. GSL losses + korean ladder is really getting to Idra, hes seems pretty unmotivated. also, it doesn't ever seem like he is ever going to revise his overall strategy even though he gets owned in every competitive match against koreans.. just the same style over and over.
such bad sportsmanship also. he successfully channeled the spirit of naniwa at his most sulking. but without the underlying talent.
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idra shud just switch to protoss so he can turtle on 2-3 base and make a deathball like he seems to always want to do with zerg.
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IdrA makes me sad, what happened afte IPL 3???
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On February 15 2012 05:07 FooDSoldOne wrote:
IdrA makes me sad, what happened afte IPL 3???
MLG Orlando and ASUS ROG :D.
But yeah, IdrA just said on Inside the Game that he told Xeris not to send him the money. So that's cleared up.
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On Inside The Game, IdrA stated that he was disappointed that aLive did risky strategies in the first two games to end them quickly. He thought since it was a show match, they would play long macro games to entertain the fans, which is understandable. We see this all too often though, show matches that don't really live up to the hype because of quick or cheesy games. I also believe he said he willingly gave back the $100, Xeris didn't force it out of him or anything.
I wish that information would have come out before there was an entire shit storm from the community and Xeris not making things very clear.
I do wish people would start playing show matches to entertain the fans/viewers/casters, it would be more fun that way.
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On February 15 2012 12:26 Azhrei16 wrote:
On Inside The Game, IdrA stated that he was disappointed that aLive did risky strategies in the first two games to end them quickly. He thought since it was a show match, they would play long macro games to entertain the fans, which is understandable. We see this all too often though, show matches that don't really live up to the hype because of quick or cheesy games. I also believe he said he willingly gave back the $100, Xeris didn't force it out of him or anything.
I wish that information would have come out before there was an entire shit storm from the community and Xeris not making things very clear.
I do wish people would start playing show matches to entertain the fans/viewers/casters, it would be more fun that way.
Do think its worth mentioning that in that same breath idra also said "Showmatches are only about the fans and the money, and I dont care for either."
Take with it what you will but personally I cant stand such a snobby remark, especially when it concerns those who elevated him to what he is now.
http://soundcloud.com/hashbaz/inside-the-game-31 <--- 1:23:30
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Ugh, that series was depressing. Though, that second game where he lost to a massive hellion push before spire is a typical anti-IdrA build. IdrA always does the same build vs terran and it's always vulnerable to mass hellions before spire. I've seen him die to that every time on his stream, for at least a year now.
I wonder why he doesn't build the roach warren just in case, when the opponent could conceivably be doing that. It's not a huge investement and it'd save his life once in a while.
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On February 15 2012 12:26 Azhrei16 wrote:
On Inside The Game, IdrA stated that he was disappointed that aLive did risky strategies in the first two games to end them quickly. He thought since it was a show match, they would play long macro games to entertain the fans, which is understandable. We see this all too often though, show matches that don't really live up to the hype because of quick or cheesy games. I also believe he said he willingly gave back the $100, Xeris didn't force it out of him or anything.
I wish that information would have come out before there was an entire shit storm from the community and Xeris not making things very clear.
I do wish people would start playing show matches to entertain the fans/viewers/casters, it would be more fun that way.
That's all it comes down to. I won't let anyone tell me otherwise. IdrA is a hate magnet because people are narrow minded and can't see the bigger picture. aLive completely went against the unspoken rule of a show match and did crappy cheese/all-ins, which was in no way entertaining, but because it was done against IdrA and he won, it was swiftly swept under the rug and nobody really noticed. Then IdrA goes ahead and does the same thing and an outrage comes out of it, which is quite stupid, no matter how much you think he 'gave up' it's completely irrelevant. What is relevant is the entertainment factor of the show match, and neither player wanted to actually honor that, but only one of them gets the flame.
It's absolutely disgusting and saddening that the community is like this.
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Do think its worth mentioning that in that same breath idra also said "Showmatches are only about the fans and the money, and I dont care for either."
If Idra thinks he is in the position he is in today solely because of his skills he is painfully wrong. Without his legions of fanatical fans he is just an overrated Zerg with a low competitive spirit.
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EPT
