On January 12 2012 14:13 RPR_Tempest wrote: MaNa has really, really good PvT.
GanZi is fucking shit against Protoss. So is Ryung. So is Clide. So is BoxeR. MMA seems to have improved a bit but he still has a pretty bad record.
SlayerS Terrans don't beat Protoss. MaNa will beat GanZi in fairly one-sided fashion.
It would actually be a tremendous upset for GanZi to win here.
Agree with the bold but you forgot something important. Ganzi is from South Korea, Mana is not. So Ganzi will still probably win.
Tell that to Gatored.
I don't know why people make bad posts like this bringing up the one piece of evidence they have when there's so much evidence to the contrary.
lol. What evidence is there to the contrary? Please tell me.
By the way, I have far more than one piece of evidence.
It's a terrible post because it's such a completely redundant piece of information. What is your point? That Ganzi has lost vs a foreign player? Yeah, no shit he's not able to have a 100% record vs foreigners, what a terrible player Ganzi must be. He's got a 68% overall win rate on TLPD (higher than any non Korean player) but nevermind because he lost to Gatored once in a best of three so Mana has got this no problem, right? Code S for multiples seasons? Yeah, what's that this is Mana we're talking about here he's a PvT god.
As for Mana, well he's a beast he beat Puma once at IEM, didn't you all see what a boss mode PvT he has? He beat Puma online once too, god he's so good PvT.
Nevermind that Mana has lost PvT's in the last six months to Polt, TOP, Bomber, Yoda and Puma because I'm just going to blind fanboy foreign players and bring up any and all examples of the foreigner winning without mentioning at all any of the times he loses, even if they completely outweigh the wins.
Mana might win this, he might not but even with lag he is up against a Code S player who has a legitimate claim to be amongst the 10 best players in the world. Mana would scrape his way into the top 50 at best.
YoDa, PuMa, Bomber, Polt and TOP are all a lot better at TvP than GanZi. They don't outweigh his impressive wins at all. Plus I never said GanZi was terrible, he's great TvT and a fucking monster TvZ. Gatored and MaNa both have really good PvT, far better than GanZi's TvP. If you're going to bring up all the players MaNa has lost to PvT, then I can bring up all the players GanZi has lost to TvP. It's a long list. He's beaten HuK and KiWiKaKi, but that's the only time he's beaten anyone who doesn't suck in a TvP. MaNa has beaten equivalent better players than HuK and KiWiKaKi PvT.
By the way, I like how you accuse me of being a foreigner fanboy. Yeah, no. Calling someone a fanboy because you can't sway them with your argument is the worst thing you can do.
Don't worry, though. We're all wrong sometimes.
Ganzi has actually barely played PvT at all in any tournaments. In the last four months he's played: Gatored 0-2 L Puzzle 2-0 W Oz 1-2 L Inori 1-0 W MC 0-1 L Puzzle 0-1 L
So yeah he played a total of 11 games of PvT since September, winning 4 and losing 7. Of the seven he lost 3 were to the three best PvT players in the entire world, and he even beat one of the (Puzzle) in a bo3. Then you're got Gatored who's an upset.
MMA and Ryung have legit bad PvT and you have the evidence to see that but Ganzi is being unfairly lumped in with them on the back of playing almost no PvT's at all and when he does mostly to extremely good PvT players.
Calling Mana's PvT better than Ganzi's is frankly laughable and certainly not based on evidence.
When Mana is at the top of his game, I see him as the best foreign Protoss. So far all the series in fight club have been good, but this one has potential to be mind blowing. Or it'll just go down as a another example of a Korean beating some foreign dude.
On January 12 2012 14:13 RPR_Tempest wrote: MaNa has really, really good PvT.
GanZi is fucking shit against Protoss. So is Ryung. So is Clide. So is BoxeR. MMA seems to have improved a bit but he still has a pretty bad record.
SlayerS Terrans don't beat Protoss. MaNa will beat GanZi in fairly one-sided fashion.
It would actually be a tremendous upset for GanZi to win here.
Agree with the bold but you forgot something important. Ganzi is from South Korea, Mana is not. So Ganzi will still probably win.
Tell that to Gatored.
I don't know why people make bad posts like this bringing up the one piece of evidence they have when there's so much evidence to the contrary.
lol. What evidence is there to the contrary? Please tell me.
By the way, I have far more than one piece of evidence.
It's a terrible post because it's such a completely redundant piece of information. What is your point? That Ganzi has lost vs a foreign player? Yeah, no shit he's not able to have a 100% record vs foreigners, what a terrible player Ganzi must be. He's got a 68% overall win rate on TLPD (higher than any non Korean player) but nevermind because he lost to Gatored once in a best of three so Mana has got this no problem, right? Code S for multiples seasons? Yeah, what's that this is Mana we're talking about here he's a PvT god.
As for Mana, well he's a beast he beat Puma once at IEM, didn't you all see what a boss mode PvT he has? He beat Puma online once too, god he's so good PvT.
Nevermind that Mana has lost PvT's in the last six months to Polt, TOP, Bomber, Yoda and Puma because I'm just going to blind fanboy foreign players and bring up any and all examples of the foreigner winning without mentioning at all any of the times he loses, even if they completely outweigh the wins.
Mana might win this, he might not but even with lag he is up against a Code S player who has a legitimate claim to be amongst the 10 best players in the world. Mana would scrape his way into the top 50 at best.
YoDa, PuMa, Bomber, Polt and TOP are all a lot better at TvP than GanZi. They don't outweigh his impressive wins at all. Plus I never said GanZi was terrible, he's great TvT and a fucking monster TvZ. Gatored and MaNa both have really good PvT, far better than GanZi's TvP. If you're going to bring up all the players MaNa has lost to PvT, then I can bring up all the players GanZi has lost to TvP. It's a long list. He's beaten HuK and KiWiKaKi, but that's the only time he's beaten anyone who doesn't suck in a TvP. MaNa has beaten equivalent better players than HuK and KiWiKaKi PvT.
By the way, I like how you accuse me of being a foreigner fanboy. Yeah, no. Calling someone a fanboy because you can't sway them with your argument is the worst thing you can do.
Don't worry, though. We're all wrong sometimes.
Ganzi has actually barely played PvT at all in any tournaments. In the last four months he's played: Gatored 0-2 L Puzzle 2-0 W Oz 1-2 L Inori 1-0 W MC 0-1 L Puzzle 0-1 L
So yeah he played a total of 11 games of PvT since September, winning 4 and losing 7. Of the seven he lost 3 were to the three best PvT players in the entire world, and he even beat one of the (Puzzle) in a bo3. Then you're got Gatored who's an upset.
MMA and Ryung have legit bad PvT and you have the evidence to see that but Ganzi is being unfairly lumped in with them on the back of playing almost no PvT's at all and when he does mostly to extremely good PvT players.
Calling Mana's PvT better than Ganzi's is frankly laughable and certainly not based on evidence.
I forgot he beat Puzzle too. My bad.
And Gatored beating GanZi wasn't an upset. Gatored beat TOP at IEM and I predicted that Gatored would defeat GanZi before it happened.
On January 12 2012 16:31 Nifel wrote: When Mana is at the top of his game, I see him as the best foreign Protoss. So far all the series in fight club have been good, but this one has potential to be mind blowing. Or it'll just go down as a another example of a Korean beating some foreign dude.
Mana's never the best foreign Protoss ever. At the very best he's the best in PvT but even then Huk has many more big wins on his belt than Mana and in PvP and PvZ he's definitely not the best foreign Protoss.
On January 12 2012 14:13 RPR_Tempest wrote: MaNa has really, really good PvT.
GanZi is fucking shit against Protoss. So is Ryung. So is Clide. So is BoxeR. MMA seems to have improved a bit but he still has a pretty bad record.
SlayerS Terrans don't beat Protoss. MaNa will beat GanZi in fairly one-sided fashion.
It would actually be a tremendous upset for GanZi to win here.
Agree with the bold but you forgot something important. Ganzi is from South Korea, Mana is not. So Ganzi will still probably win.
Tell that to Gatored.
I don't know why people make bad posts like this bringing up the one piece of evidence they have when there's so much evidence to the contrary.
lol. What evidence is there to the contrary? Please tell me.
By the way, I have far more than one piece of evidence.
It's a terrible post because it's such a completely redundant piece of information. What is your point? That Ganzi has lost vs a foreign player? Yeah, no shit he's not able to have a 100% record vs foreigners, what a terrible player Ganzi must be. He's got a 68% overall win rate on TLPD (higher than any non Korean player) but nevermind because he lost to Gatored once in a best of three so Mana has got this no problem, right? Code S for multiples seasons? Yeah, what's that this is Mana we're talking about here he's a PvT god.
As for Mana, well he's a beast he beat Puma once at IEM, didn't you all see what a boss mode PvT he has? He beat Puma online once too, god he's so good PvT.
Nevermind that Mana has lost PvT's in the last six months to Polt, TOP, Bomber, Yoda and Puma because I'm just going to blind fanboy foreign players and bring up any and all examples of the foreigner winning without mentioning at all any of the times he loses, even if they completely outweigh the wins.
Mana might win this, he might not but even with lag he is up against a Code S player who has a legitimate claim to be amongst the 10 best players in the world. Mana would scrape his way into the top 50 at best.
YoDa, PuMa, Bomber, Polt and TOP are all a lot better at TvP than GanZi. They don't outweigh his impressive wins at all. Plus I never said GanZi was terrible, he's great TvT and a fucking monster TvZ. Gatored and MaNa both have really good PvT, far better than GanZi's TvP. If you're going to bring up all the players MaNa has lost to PvT, then I can bring up all the players GanZi has lost to TvP. It's a long list. He's beaten HuK and KiWiKaKi, but that's the only time he's beaten anyone who doesn't suck in a TvP. MaNa has beaten equivalent better players than HuK and KiWiKaKi PvT.
By the way, I like how you accuse me of being a foreigner fanboy. Yeah, no. Calling someone a fanboy because you can't sway them with your argument is the worst thing you can do.
Don't worry, though. We're all wrong sometimes.
Ganzi has actually barely played PvT at all in any tournaments. In the last four months he's played: Gatored 0-2 L Puzzle 2-0 W Oz 1-2 L Inori 1-0 W MC 0-1 L Puzzle 0-1 L
So yeah he played a total of 11 games of PvT since September, winning 4 and losing 7. Of the seven he lost 3 were to the three best PvT players in the entire world, and he even beat one of the (Puzzle) in a bo3. Then you're got Gatored who's an upset.
MMA and Ryung have legit bad PvT and you have the evidence to see that but Ganzi is being unfairly lumped in with them on the back of playing almost no PvT's at all and when he does mostly to extremely good PvT players.
Calling Mana's PvT better than Ganzi's is frankly laughable and certainly not based on evidence.
I forgot he beat Puzzle too. My bad.
And Gatored beating GanZi wasn't an upset. Gatored beat TOP at IEM and I predicted that Gatored would defeat GanZi before it happened.
TOP has really, really bad TvP. There not much stats there because again no Protoss in Korea means most Koreans have only played Zerg's and Terran's in the last six months. I watched the TOP vs Mana series and Mana derped pretty hard in Games 2+3 when I expected him to win after game 1, but I guess game 1 was Terminus so him winning that is no surprise.
On January 12 2012 16:31 Nifel wrote: When Mana is at the top of his game, I see him as the best foreign Protoss. So far all the series in fight club have been good, but this one has potential to be mind blowing. Or it'll just go down as a another example of a Korean beating some foreign dude.
Mana's never the best foreign Protoss ever. At the very best he's the best in PvT but even then Huk has many more big wins on his belt than Mana and in PvP and PvZ he's definitely not the best foreign Protoss.
I disagree (on the part that he's not the best obviously, not on that HuK has more "big wins"). Mana has shown much more impressive play than HuK. Imoho. Also, please note that I said "I see him as the best..", not that he was. I might be wrong. I don't care.
Seems GanZi faces his toughest opponent so far, race-wise. However, I am sure that he will specifically train more TvP just for this showmatch, as there is quite a bit of money on the line.
On January 12 2012 14:13 RPR_Tempest wrote: MaNa has really, really good PvT.
GanZi is fucking shit against Protoss. So is Ryung. So is Clide. So is BoxeR. MMA seems to have improved a bit but he still has a pretty bad record.
SlayerS Terrans don't beat Protoss. MaNa will beat GanZi in fairly one-sided fashion.
It would actually be a tremendous upset for GanZi to win here.
Agree with the bold but you forgot something important. Ganzi is from South Korea, Mana is not. So Ganzi will still probably win.
Tell that to Gatored.
I don't know why people make bad posts like this bringing up the one piece of evidence they have when there's so much evidence to the contrary.
lol. What evidence is there to the contrary? Please tell me.
By the way, I have far more than one piece of evidence.
It's a terrible post because it's such a completely redundant piece of information. What is your point? That Ganzi has lost vs a foreign player? Yeah, no shit he's not able to have a 100% record vs foreigners, what a terrible player Ganzi must be. He's got a 68% overall win rate on TLPD (higher than any non Korean player) but nevermind because he lost to Gatored once in a best of three so Mana has got this no problem, right? Code S for multiples seasons? Yeah, what's that this is Mana we're talking about here he's a PvT god.
As for Mana, well he's a beast he beat Puma once at IEM, didn't you all see what a boss mode PvT he has? He beat Puma online once too, god he's so good PvT.
Nevermind that Mana has lost PvT's in the last six months to Polt, TOP, Bomber, Yoda and Puma because I'm just going to blind fanboy foreign players and bring up any and all examples of the foreigner winning without mentioning at all any of the times he loses, even if they completely outweigh the wins.
Mana might win this, he might not but even with lag he is up against a Code S player who has a legitimate claim to be amongst the 10 best players in the world. Mana would scrape his way into the top 50 at best.
YoDa, PuMa, Bomber, Polt and TOP are all a lot better at TvP than GanZi. They don't outweigh his impressive wins at all. Plus I never said GanZi was terrible, he's great TvT and a fucking monster TvZ. Gatored and MaNa both have really good PvT, far better than GanZi's TvP. If you're going to bring up all the players MaNa has lost to PvT, then I can bring up all the players GanZi has lost to TvP. It's a long list. He's beaten HuK and KiWiKaKi, but that's the only time he's beaten anyone who doesn't suck in a TvP. MaNa has beaten equivalent better players than HuK and KiWiKaKi PvT.
By the way, I like how you accuse me of being a foreigner fanboy. Yeah, no. Calling someone a fanboy because you can't sway them with your argument is the worst thing you can do.
Don't worry, though. We're all wrong sometimes.
Ganzi has actually barely played PvT at all in any tournaments. In the last four months he's played: Gatored 0-2 L Puzzle 2-0 W Oz 1-2 L Inori 1-0 W MC 0-1 L Puzzle 0-1 L
So yeah he played a total of 11 games of PvT since September, winning 4 and losing 7. Of the seven he lost 3 were to the three best PvT players in the entire world, and he even beat one of the (Puzzle) in a bo3. Then you're got Gatored who's an upset.
MMA and Ryung have legit bad PvT and you have the evidence to see that but Ganzi is being unfairly lumped in with them on the back of playing almost no PvT's at all and when he does mostly to extremely good PvT players.
Calling Mana's PvT better than Ganzi's is frankly laughable and certainly not based on evidence.
I forgot he beat Puzzle too. My bad.
And Gatored beating GanZi wasn't an upset. Gatored beat TOP at IEM and I predicted that Gatored would defeat GanZi before it happened.
TOP has really, really bad TvP. There not much stats there because again no Protoss in Korea means most Koreans have only played Zerg's and Terran's in the last six months. I watched the TOP vs Mana series and Mana derped pretty hard in Games 2+3 when I expected him to win after game 1, but I guess game 1 was Terminus so him winning that is no surprise.
No Protoss on GSL doesn't equal to no protoss on korea.
Hm, are u sure its 14th of January 2am, as it says? I think its supposed to be played tomorrow 8pm some US time, so 2am 15th of january would make more sense ^^
I read Ganzi's interview for getting out of his group. He's definitely not confident about winning TvP and I tend to trust players themselves if they think they can't win or at the very least do well. Unless of course you're Nestea from half a year ago....
But in all seriousness, I think Mana should win, but I don't say that with confidence at all.
On January 14 2012 00:51 Noispaxen wrote: Hm, are u sure its 14th of January 2am, as it says? I think its supposed to be played tomorrow 8pm some US time, so 2am 15th of january would make more sense ^^
I'm wondering as well. Is that played in 4 hours or not?
EPT
