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Here we go again. This weekend is about good games and good fun. Don't rain on that parade. Play nice guys. Here's the very standard and friendly:
- NO Balance Whine.
- NO Player Bashing.
- NO Caster Bashing.
- NO BM whatsoever.
Breaking these rules (from pg 166 forward) will be met with severe punishment. |
On November 20 2011 22:25 SeaSwift wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 22:17 WhiteDog wrote:
I'm perfectly chill, and I'm actually a naniwa's fan. I like that boy out of all the protoss foreigner, and I'm happy to seeing him do well, despite the moment where he shit on tournaments and other players. But, if you compare to the moment where he was just getting to korea, when he whined about protoss' shape, then it's safe to assume the game is at least balanced.
Never said protoss were imbalance, but some of the result are certainly "impressive" to say the least. Dunno, this looks a bit like saying protoss were imbalance: Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 19:00 WhiteDog wrote:
I'm eager to see the protoss' win ratio at this event, seems like they are crushing everybody...
Silly whiners. -_- From this thread. You're edging around trying to get away with it by not coming out and saying it right off. Instead you claim that that Protoss are whining about being imbalanced at the moment (I can't see a single P UP post in this whole thread) and post your own stuff to "refute" it. Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 22:17 WhiteDog wrote:
Despite that, you still have people arguing about : is protoss weak, imba or whatnot. It's boring. All right, find a recent post in this thread complaining about protoss being weak. I find your own implications about protoss even more boring. You're just drawing out an argument in several different places by posting in random threads about how Protoss is doing "suspiciously" well, without having the guts to go close enough to recieving a ban.
You're joking ? It's exactly my point when I say "silly whiners"... Please read again, find a post where I state protoss is imba.
And read again my first post, it was a response to RyF saying "Protoss QQ is over" and someone arguing that it's all an illusio made by the MLG tournament system.
On November 20 2011 22:25 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 21:58 WhiteDog wrote:On November 20 2011 21:32 SeaSwift wrote:On November 20 2011 21:26 WhiteDog wrote:
You're a joke man... Nestea and MVP beaten by Naniwa who can't even qualify himself for Code A doesn't mean shit ? You're good at changing reality, but the truth is protoss is rampaging everything (Gatored beating Ganzi, really ?). What a belligerent post. Naniwa beat MVP/Nestea in the Global Invitational, which isn't even the main tournament, and then won ONE bo3 vs Nestea in the main tournament. Protoss is not "rampaging everything". Ganzi has AWFUL TvP, look at his win ratio. 36%. And this is the guy who took out both Puzzle and Oz. Hero completely outplayed every opponent he won against, but yes. HerO did well. Naniwa, MC and Huk have in total won 4 series so far, one of them a PvP. I don't call that Protoss dominance. While Protoss are doing well in the championship bracket/seeding, look at the bottom of this diagram: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Providence#Championship_BracketThere are 2 total Protoss players left in the lower bracket, out of 20 players. Again, Protoss dominance is all in your head. It's not a belligerent post, it's just a joke to watch protoss whining again and again and again despite obvious results. Yeah, having 3 protoss in the semi and most likely a PvP final (yeah my call, two MLGs back to back) is not impressive. About the lower bracket, it's not even interesting to comment... You have no names fighting against pro players, but overall, in the winner bracket protoss are doing just as good as everybody (out of 74 protoss, 2 get to the final of the open bracket, HerO and State, out of 68 terran only one, MvP, and out of 93 zerg, 5 got into the final). Naniwa with 11% win loss ratio in GSL arguing that Nestea is not good and then winning against him... is not "impressive". I honestly think you are arguing out of ignorance to MLG's system. Lets look at the bracket again http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Providence#Championship Bracket3/4s down the page. The people in the lower bracket are mostly big names. Ill list them Rain MKP HayprO Illusion BoxeR Artist Puma Losira Sjow SeleCT Leenock Bomber MVP KiWiKaKi SLush Ret HerO Nestea MMA IdrA Furthermore the system -- Double Elim Championship Bracket finals are not MLG Providence Grand finals. Champ bracket finals if PvP means one of the protoss players will go to the grand finals. The grand finals opponent would be whoever wins the lower bracket. Which means it can be any of the "no-name" people in that list of 20 I wrote earlier in my post. They will need to beat the loser of the Championship round finals to make it to the grand finals. But the larger number of protoss is due to seeding. IdrA got seeded into his worst matchup against someone who has historically been able to beat him. We all know how IdrA has issues with the mental game and going up against MC is not going to help (I remember when he lost an extended series 4-3 being up 3 games to MC a few months ago). Not to mention with being hit by a relatively new strategy that sees very little play generally and IdrA just didn't know how to handle. Naniwa got seeded and beat nestea in one series. HuK got seeded into a PvP so it was obvious one protoss would win. Don't start saying protoss is OP when you aren't looking at the bracket logically. I don't argue that MLG's system is a little flawed but the fact remains seeding is important and since the Koreans (with the exception of MC) hadn't gone to more than one MLG prior to providence they didn't really get seeded very high at all. Looking at the seeds we see 3/4 protoss were seeded high and this means they had little opportunity to lose to get knocked down. Zerg was seeded into the middle so they had 3 players in the quarter finals for Champ bracket. Terran was seeded low and the biggest T seeds are as follows: Bomber SeleCT Puma MMA SjoW BoxeR Bomber lost to MVP (bomber still in the LB) BoxeR lost to Nestea (still in LB) Puma lost 2-1 to HerO (still in LB) SjoW lost to HerO (still in LB) Select lost to Nestea (still in LB) MVP lost to MC (still in LB) Important to take away from this is as follows: MVP loses to MC a lot for example WCG Korea and AOL tournies. His TvP doesn't seem that well practiced thanks to never playing protoss in the GSL. SjoW a decent Terran lost to HerO an Amazing protoss. Puma vs HerO was a close series. I don't feel its fair for you to start whining and complaining after one day of a tournament when not understanding the MLG format and looking at the bracket before making wild claims. The seeds favoured protoss, and few games have been played with P in them compared to the other races in the champ brackets. It favours toss because Nani and HuK came to every MLG, so they got seeded higher than the Koreans since Koreans don't go to every MLG (with the exception of MC who seems to really enjoy coming out to MLG since this is his 3rd and placed highly in two others giving him a high seed in the grand finals).
It's exactly my point, see my last post. MLG system favor too much high seeded players.
But I applaud you for writing all that down for nothing, reading my post would have prevented you from wasting your strenght.
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day 3 starts in 1:30 hour?
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On November 20 2011 22:17 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 22:09 ravemir wrote:On November 20 2011 21:58 WhiteDog wrote:On November 20 2011 21:32 SeaSwift wrote:On November 20 2011 21:26 WhiteDog wrote:
You're a joke man... Nestea and MVP beaten by Naniwa who can't even qualify himself for Code A doesn't mean shit ? You're good at changing reality, but the truth is protoss is rampaging everything (Gatored beating Ganzi, really ?). What a belligerent post. Naniwa beat MVP/Nestea in the Global Invitational, which isn't even the main tournament, and then won ONE bo3 vs Nestea in the main tournament. Protoss is not "rampaging everything". Ganzi has AWFUL TvP, look at his win ratio. 36%. And this is the guy who took out both Puzzle and Oz. Hero completely outplayed every opponent he won against, but yes. HerO did well. Naniwa, MC and Huk have in total won 4 series so far, one of them a PvP. I don't call that Protoss dominance. While Protoss are doing well in the championship bracket/seeding, look at the bottom of this diagram: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Providence#Championship_BracketThere are 2 total Protoss players left in the lower bracket, out of 20 players. Again, Protoss dominance is all in your head. It's not a belligerent post, it's just a joke to watch protoss whining again and again and again despite obvious results. Yeah, having 3 protoss in the semi and most likely a PvP final (yeah my call, two MLGs back to back) is not impressive. About the lower bracket, it's not even interesting to comment... You have no names fighting against pro players, but overall, in the winner bracket protoss are doing just as good as everybody (out of 74 protoss, 2 get to the final of the open bracket, HerO and State, out of 68 terran only one, MvP, and out of 93 zerg, 5 got into the final). Naniwa with 11% win loss ratio in GSL arguing that Nestea is not good and then winning against him... is not "impressive". You need to chill a little bit and think about the circumstances: if there are more zerg than protoss and terran combined, how does that show that there is a protoss dominance in the lower bracket? Also, don't forget that the loser's bracket still counts, and there were 6, I believe, Terrans moving forward to the Champ bracket. There are still 11 (6 of them aren't "no-names") Terrans participating, 5 Protoss and 8 Zerg. And please cut it out with Nani's results in the GSL, it's getting old. The kid's needs to get a bit humble, but don't deny that he is doing pretty good. I'm perfectly chill, and I'm actually a naniwa's fan. I like that boy out of all the protoss foreigner, and I'm happy to seeing him do well, despite the moment where he shit on tournaments and other players. But, if you compare to the moment where he was just getting to korea, when he whined about protoss' shape, then it's safe to assume the game is at least balanced. Never said protoss were imbalance, but some of the result are certainly "impressive" to say the least. Despite that, you still have people arguing about : is protoss weak, imba or whatnot. It's boring. The only thing that is failing in MLG is, as ever, not the balance but the tournament structure, giving almost freewins to high seeded players.
I have to agree the last thing you say. A lot of times in the gsl final, we see one sided final but after all the better player won the final. But sometimes in mlg final, did the better player really win the final? It was arguable.
For example, Mc vs Huk, Huk won the final with a 4 gate battle + Mc's failed forge. Do not get me wrong, I do think Huk atm is better than Mc in PvP. But consider the number of games Mc played that day to Huk played that day, it was hard to say if the final showed who was better.
Another one was the MMA vs MVP. Although I did believe MVP deserved that MLG win, I would say that final did not show who was the better player. It was arguable and not clear.
Hope see some change in future.
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What happened in the Idra vs MC matches? Did Idra just roll over to strong early pushes or something?
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It's 9 pages in and there are balance whines. What the fuck Teamliquid...
Rooting for Kiwi and NaNi today!!!!!!!!!!!!
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On November 20 2011 22:30 KristianJS wrote:
What happened in the Idra vs MC matches? Did Idra just roll over to strong early pushes or something?
It involved sentries and IdrA's ramp to his natural
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On November 20 2011 22:33 Linwelin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 22:30 KristianJS wrote:
What happened in the Idra vs MC matches? Did Idra just roll over to strong early pushes or something? It involved sentries and IdrA's ramp to his natural
and a warp prism! but ya pretty much summed up that series.
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EG fighting today! Lets go boys
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I'm really hoping people can put aside the blatant Naniwa bashing and balance whining today..
Also I am hoping pigs will fly and that hell freezes over.
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On November 20 2011 22:30 KristianJS wrote:
What happened in the Idra vs MC matches? Did Idra just roll over to strong early pushes or something?
IdrA tried a 5-6 infestor + zergling timing attack on Xelnaga, MC's good force field stops it, idra loses
Game 2, IdrA plays almost perfectly, attempting to punish a greedy nexus first with banelings and kills 10 probes, then the game continues normally. Taking basically zero damage from stargate play. Get a fast third with good spore defense, losses almost nothing to the harass. Loses anyway when 4 sentries are dropped into his main and a round of units warp in and kill his lair.
Idra tries to counter attack with his roach army, but again, force field and cannons and VR is all you need to stop roaches.
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Holy shit guys, the way the schedule has turned out, we could end up with Nani vs Huk, Nesteas Game, Heros Game, Idras Game and MMAs game all at the same time! >: And those 4 games will all be against awesome players from the losers bracket.
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On November 20 2011 22:30 KristianJS wrote:
What happened in the Idra vs MC matches? Did Idra just roll over to strong early pushes or something?
1st game: IdrA goes for the 2 base speedlings/burrowed infestors timing. MC defends with strong forcefields and counter attacks with a warprism sentry drops to block IdrA's main ramp. IdrA promptly gg's.
2nd game: MC's nexus first goes unchecked against IdrA's speed opening. IdrA attempts a baneling bust, which kills 10 probes but doesn't accomplish much else. MC opens stargate with 2 void rays and phoenixes. A warpprism comes out of the robo and he goes for the sentry ramp block again. IdrA tries to counter attack while losing his main, but gg's when... well, IdrA gg's with his usual timing (;D). It would have indeed be very hard to win in his position.
tl;dr: "Sentry drops to block the ramp, a very useful talent toi have."
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On November 20 2011 22:33 Linwelin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 22:30 KristianJS wrote:
What happened in the Idra vs MC matches? Did Idra just roll over to strong early pushes or something? It involved sentries and IdrA's ramp to his natural
and failed Idra cheeses both time, lets not forget that
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United Arab Emirates1141 Posts
Huk's got this. High skill level and solid past MLG performances (high seeding) taking him all the way home 
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I'm definitive cheering for nAni. Seeing him winning MLG Providence would make a great story. But i would also love to see Huk, MC or herO winning the tournament. (Year i m heavily toss biased :D)
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DRG ate MMA thus can eat any terran. His ZvP is unorthodox if not weird but once he stabilize and get his mutas out, he's strong. So I would actually give him a good chance taking this.
But then we have HuK/MC. Fuck. That warp prism-FF-your-ramp stuff looks unbeatable T.T
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On November 20 2011 22:37 SafeAsCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 22:30 KristianJS wrote:
What happened in the Idra vs MC matches? Did Idra just roll over to strong early pushes or something? IdrA tried a 5-6 infestor + zergling timing attack on Xelnaga, MC's good force field stops it, idra loses Game 2, IdrA plays almost perfectly, taking basically zero damage from stargate play. Get a fast third with good spore defense, losses almost nothing to the harass. Loses anyway when 4 sentries are dropped into his main and a round of units warp in and kill his lair. Idra tries to counter attack with his roach army, but again, force field and cannons and VR is all you need to stop roaches.
On November 20 2011 22:38 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 22:30 KristianJS wrote:
What happened in the Idra vs MC matches? Did Idra just roll over to strong early pushes or something? 1st game: IdrA goes for the 2 base speedlings/burrowed infestors timing. MC defends with strong forcefields and counter attacks with a warprism sentry drops to block IdrA's main ramp. IdrA promptly gg's. 2nd game: MC's nexus first goes unchecked against IdrA's speed opening. IdrA attempts a baneling bust, which kills 10 probes but doesn't accomplish much else. MC opens stargate with 2 void rays and phoenixes. A warpprism comes out of the robo and he goes for the sentry ramp block again. IdrA tries to counter attack while losing his main, but gg's when... well, IdrA gg's with his usual timing (;D). It would have indeed be very hard to win in his position. tl;dr: "Sentry drops to block the ramp, a very useful talent toi have."
Lol, it sounds like you are describing different games in game 2.
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I really hope Nestea beats MVP so we get Nani vs Nestea round 3.
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On November 20 2011 22:39 freetgy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 22:33 Linwelin wrote:On November 20 2011 22:30 KristianJS wrote:
What happened in the Idra vs MC matches? Did Idra just roll over to strong early pushes or something? It involved sentries and IdrA's ramp to his natural and failed Idra cheeses both time, lets not forget that
cheeses? really? such ignorance
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Canada13389 Posts
On November 20 2011 22:27 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 22:25 SeaSwift wrote:On November 20 2011 22:17 WhiteDog wrote:
I'm perfectly chill, and I'm actually a naniwa's fan. I like that boy out of all the protoss foreigner, and I'm happy to seeing him do well, despite the moment where he shit on tournaments and other players. But, if you compare to the moment where he was just getting to korea, when he whined about protoss' shape, then it's safe to assume the game is at least balanced.
Never said protoss were imbalance, but some of the result are certainly "impressive" to say the least. Dunno, this looks a bit like saying protoss were imbalance: On November 20 2011 19:00 WhiteDog wrote:
I'm eager to see the protoss' win ratio at this event, seems like they are crushing everybody...
Silly whiners. -_- From this thread. You're edging around trying to get away with it by not coming out and saying it right off. Instead you claim that that Protoss are whining about being imbalanced at the moment (I can't see a single P UP post in this whole thread) and post your own stuff to "refute" it. On November 20 2011 22:17 WhiteDog wrote:
Despite that, you still have people arguing about : is protoss weak, imba or whatnot. It's boring. All right, find a recent post in this thread complaining about protoss being weak. I find your own implications about protoss even more boring. You're just drawing out an argument in several different places by posting in random threads about how Protoss is doing "suspiciously" well, without having the guts to go close enough to recieving a ban. You're joking ? It's exactly my point when I say "silly whiners"... Please read again, find a post where I state protoss is imba. And read again my first post, it was a response to RyF saying "Protoss QQ is over" and someone arguing that it's all an illusio made by the MLG tournament system. Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 22:25 ZeromuS wrote:On November 20 2011 21:58 WhiteDog wrote:On November 20 2011 21:32 SeaSwift wrote:On November 20 2011 21:26 WhiteDog wrote:
You're a joke man... Nestea and MVP beaten by Naniwa who can't even qualify himself for Code A doesn't mean shit ? You're good at changing reality, but the truth is protoss is rampaging everything (Gatored beating Ganzi, really ?). What a belligerent post. Naniwa beat MVP/Nestea in the Global Invitational, which isn't even the main tournament, and then won ONE bo3 vs Nestea in the main tournament. Protoss is not "rampaging everything". Ganzi has AWFUL TvP, look at his win ratio. 36%. And this is the guy who took out both Puzzle and Oz. Hero completely outplayed every opponent he won against, but yes. HerO did well. Naniwa, MC and Huk have in total won 4 series so far, one of them a PvP. I don't call that Protoss dominance. While Protoss are doing well in the championship bracket/seeding, look at the bottom of this diagram: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Providence#Championship_BracketThere are 2 total Protoss players left in the lower bracket, out of 20 players. Again, Protoss dominance is all in your head. It's not a belligerent post, it's just a joke to watch protoss whining again and again and again despite obvious results. Yeah, having 3 protoss in the semi and most likely a PvP final (yeah my call, two MLGs back to back) is not impressive. About the lower bracket, it's not even interesting to comment... You have no names fighting against pro players, but overall, in the winner bracket protoss are doing just as good as everybody (out of 74 protoss, 2 get to the final of the open bracket, HerO and State, out of 68 terran only one, MvP, and out of 93 zerg, 5 got into the final). Naniwa with 11% win loss ratio in GSL arguing that Nestea is not good and then winning against him... is not "impressive". I honestly think you are arguing out of ignorance to MLG's system. Lets look at the bracket again http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Providence#Championship Bracket3/4s down the page. The people in the lower bracket are mostly big names. Ill list them Rain MKP HayprO Illusion BoxeR Artist Puma Losira Sjow SeleCT Leenock Bomber MVP KiWiKaKi SLush Ret HerO Nestea MMA IdrA Furthermore the system -- Double Elim Championship Bracket finals are not MLG Providence Grand finals. Champ bracket finals if PvP means one of the protoss players will go to the grand finals. The grand finals opponent would be whoever wins the lower bracket. Which means it can be any of the "no-name" people in that list of 20 I wrote earlier in my post. They will need to beat the loser of the Championship round finals to make it to the grand finals. But the larger number of protoss is due to seeding. IdrA got seeded into his worst matchup against someone who has historically been able to beat him. We all know how IdrA has issues with the mental game and going up against MC is not going to help (I remember when he lost an extended series 4-3 being up 3 games to MC a few months ago). Not to mention with being hit by a relatively new strategy that sees very little play generally and IdrA just didn't know how to handle. Naniwa got seeded and beat nestea in one series. HuK got seeded into a PvP so it was obvious one protoss would win. Don't start saying protoss is OP when you aren't looking at the bracket logically. I don't argue that MLG's system is a little flawed but the fact remains seeding is important and since the Koreans (with the exception of MC) hadn't gone to more than one MLG prior to providence they didn't really get seeded very high at all. Looking at the seeds we see 3/4 protoss were seeded high and this means they had little opportunity to lose to get knocked down. Zerg was seeded into the middle so they had 3 players in the quarter finals for Champ bracket. Terran was seeded low and the biggest T seeds are as follows: Bomber SeleCT Puma MMA SjoW BoxeR Bomber lost to MVP (bomber still in the LB) BoxeR lost to Nestea (still in LB) Puma lost 2-1 to HerO (still in LB) SjoW lost to HerO (still in LB) Select lost to Nestea (still in LB) MVP lost to MC (still in LB) Important to take away from this is as follows: MVP loses to MC a lot for example WCG Korea and AOL tournies. His TvP doesn't seem that well practiced thanks to never playing protoss in the GSL. SjoW a decent Terran lost to HerO an Amazing protoss. Puma vs HerO was a close series. I don't feel its fair for you to start whining and complaining after one day of a tournament when not understanding the MLG format and looking at the bracket before making wild claims. The seeds favoured protoss, and few games have been played with P in them compared to the other races in the champ brackets. It favours toss because Nani and HuK came to every MLG, so they got seeded higher than the Koreans since Koreans don't go to every MLG (with the exception of MC who seems to really enjoy coming out to MLG since this is his 3rd and placed highly in two others giving him a high seed in the grand finals). It's exactly my point, see my last post. MLG system favor too much high seeded players. But I applaud you for writing all that down for nothing, reading my post would have prevented you from wasting your strenght.
Your post about MLG system came after I typed all that out  Before about 2 pages back you weren't mentioning the system at all and acted like championship bracket was the same as the grand finals
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EPT
