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[1500$] SC2 Edmonton Open Nov 26-27th - Page 11

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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prodiG
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada2016 Posts
November 28 2011 07:07 GMT
#201
Playhem ran a 512 seed tournament online (if I'm not mistaken), that doesn't involve any setup time & you can basically bang all of your matches out one after another. 64 players doesn't take 6-8 hours, try over 14 when you're doing it at a live venue where you have to be shuffling players around because they're sitting right next each other, getting up and disappearing for brief stints of time, etc. There's always room for optimization but at all of the tournaments that I've been to at any lan center 64 people doing a double elim bracket in 6-8 hours is beyond unrealistic.

As far as the map pool is concerned, see spoiler or read full interview if you are interested
+ Show Spoiler +
<span class="Q">You've made quite a few maps in your time. Can user made maps be good enough to replace Blizzard made maps on the eSports level, and if so, how should tournaments go about incoporating them into their map pool?</span>

P: There are many issues involved like balance and the limit experience of pros on non-ladder maps. In my opinion, user-made maps are already good enough to replace Blizzard made maps on the eSports level for MANY reasons. The first of which is overall gameplay: User-made maps have been beating Blizzard maps since practically day one as far as exciting gameplay is concerned for both the players and spectators. Secondly, balance: A high-level mapmaker will take every balance issue very seriously and work to make sure the map is as close to balanced as possible (closed to balanced being 45-55 or at worst 60-40). For example, GSL recently removed Gold expansions from every single map in it's map pool because they determined that it was one of factors contributing to Terran's overwhelming success. Blizzard on the other hand often waits until the end of a ladder season (which up until recently could last longer than six months for all we knew) or not change the issue at all. Finally, bugfixes: Every map will have a bug from time to time. A cliff that wasn't supposed to be pathable turns out to be pathable, a mineral patch is slightly mis-placed, etc. Mapmakers will fix issues like that as soon as they hear about them - for example, the ESV Map Team strives for a 24-hour turnaround on bug reports and for the most part we hit it within the first 4 hours. Blizzard again might not fix the issue at all and instead decide to axe the map in a later season (did you know you can park a tank in one of the thirds on the ladder version of Antiga Shipyard and siege one of your opponent's geysers in his main if you have vision? this is a two minute fix, I did it myself.

The ideal way for tournaments to incorporate maps into their map pool is simply to keep an eye open for new and interesting maps (this means having staff that's not in Bronze league picking your map pool *ahem*). From there, they can open up a dialogue with the mapmaker or mapmaking team they represent and sey "Hey, we're considering using your map in a tournament map pool. Can you make sure it's up on these servers and is as bug free as possible/give us the map file for us to publish ourselves?" From there, the tournament organizers can take feedback from the players - balance concerns, bug fixes, etc. and pass it along to the mapmaker so they can fix the map and continue testing until everyone is happy. This is exactly what we try to do with the ESV map team and the Korean Weekly, and this is exactly what GSL does with Crux.

This obviously involves some risk for the organizer. They need to put up a decent amount of prizes to attract some reputable sources to provide feedback (Nestea will be able to give me much more useful information as a mapmaker than Joe Bronze) and if it turns out all of the maps they pick suck, it will tarnish their name and they'll have a harder time growing in the future. There is also the issue of backlash from the players - at the moment, SC2 is in a state where the map pools don't rotate very often. Trying to get players to play on new maps can be hard, even when there is a lot of incentive. You run the risk of alienating a lot of people which if you're trying to run your event as a business is essentially a lost customer. This is in my opinion the fault of everyone collectively: Tournaments didn't pick custom maps up early enough, Blizzard didn't add custom maps to their ladder pool because they wanted to balance the game and now a year and a half has passed and we're in a rut where all people want to play on is Metalopolis because that's what they know.

That answer turned into a bit of a rant, so I'll summarize with this: Organizers are going to have to jump the gun sooner or later and basically say "Here's your massive prize pool, here's your maps for the event. Practice them if you want to win" - That, or some kind of progamer revolution where everyone unanimously boycotts any tournament with a Blizzard map in it (DIE METALOPOLIS >!!!! )


I can't speak entirely on behalf of CASL but I was one of the people who suggested that ~top 16 are in the money - this was based on the idea that 40-60 people would be showing up, not 20 based on IPL having a very similar model where players who did well even as early as the group stages were in the money. In the future I imagine this will be changed to be more top-heavy but that's not my call.

ESV Mapmaking Team || http://twitter.com/prodiGsc || Real talk, I don't have time to sugar-coat it for you sir
KingDime
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada750 Posts
November 28 2011 07:07 GMT
#202
Had a blast, and I was just happy that after all my resentment of PvP I could show some solid control in the finals. Plan on coming to the next one as well.
Doom Guy
Primadog
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4411 Posts
November 28 2011 07:18 GMT
#203
The first lan is always the hardest, and you guys survived it. Congrats! You are now the future of Edmonton scene, and I have high expectations!
Thank God and gunrun.
Goliath0nline
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada165 Posts
November 28 2011 07:23 GMT
#204
Fun and great tournament, good job!
chadissilent
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada1187 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-28 08:27:59
November 28 2011 07:24 GMT
#205
This was a good tournament, I had fun. Gofarman put in a ton of effort, learned a lot and had to make some difficult decisions. For that, I would like to formally apologize to him and everyone involved for forcing Gofarman to make a difficult decision and the aftermath of that. It was not fair to him or anyone else what happened and is an embarrassment to myself.

Other than that, there were a few things to take away from the tournament. The turnout for the tournament was much lower than expected, however most of the top talent showed up. What this means? Smaller brackets and a more difficult tournament from the get-go. Why this is, I think there are three reasons:

Player unfriendly map pool
Two-day event
$40 Entry fee.

I know the entry fee was set to where it was due to the fact that the top 16 were all paid, however I feel this scares off the lower level players that know they have no chance at the top 16. The map pool also scares these same players off since they haven't seen some of these maps on the ladder or in major tournaments.

Personally, I have always liked Sanshorn Mist and it seemed to be well received. The other ESV maps, not so much -- players only choosing them because they knew their race had a clear advantage on them.

The two day event also was a contributing factor, since I assume many people didn't have a ton of time to put into this, and it's much easier to write off one day of your weekend rather than the entire thing.

On a different note, the whole thing was ran extremely well, with referee's taking care of the games and the admins taking care of the brackets and such. I really appreciated the effort and time put in by the officials, good job guys.
On November 28 2011 15:43 ScareCrow` wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2011 14:35 Gofarman wrote:
On November 28 2011 13:01 ScareCrow` wrote:
On November 28 2011 11:24 burster wrote:
http://challonge.com/edmontonopen


Only 20 players?


That's what I thought.

lols, all good though.

On November 28 2011 14:15 prodiG wrote:
On November 28 2011 04:53 Shiro420 wrote:
I think what Gofarman is trying to accomplish should be commended. If there we're 12 people that showed up or 64, he was still willing to risk his own $1500 for a SET pot (not a starting pot). It can be expected that their first event wont be a blow out, but it's the first event, give this guy some credit. I'm sure he has learned allot of shit over the past few days that will only ensure that the next event (if there is one) will be a bigger success.

I think Edmonton should also be proud of this event going down. There has never been a payout this big for a starcraft 2 tournament. Gofarman has made history with this. By putting up $1500, he has set the stage for what looks like a good series of events to come.

hats off to you sir.

I could not agree more. Well fucking said sir. GG'z all today, I'm working on VODs right now


YEAH, Vod's FTW. gotta rewatch that 7 pool in the semi's

BEST
MICRO
EVA


That's really disappointing. I know at least 4-5 Calgarians who would've come personally including myself if it had been structured a little differently. It seems like it was a great tournament for anyone residing in Edmonton, but outside of that really not cost effective.

The prize pool itself is amazing, but taking into account how the tournament was run and how the pot was split really discouraged us. Entry fee and travel costs alone made first and second place the only profitable standings, and when we factored in that we'd have to stay a night it was thrown out the window. I don't think anyone is looking forward to play to win back their entry fee and anything below RO8, (or even RO4, realistically) shouldn't be rewarded, but instead offer a larger reward to the top dogs.

Expecting 64 people is reasonable, but I don't understand the need for 2 days from this. Playhem ran a 512 seed tournament today that lasted 3 hours. Having to stay an extra day really racks up the costs for anyone outside of town. 64 players is ultimately 6 rounds of games, which at most will take between 6-8 hours, if games are going their full lengths and playing full sets. Anyone who is serious about competing has no problem with this, I think.

There's been a few mentions about the map pool in this thread already so I won't bring much more of it to light...but it seems like this is also a thing more constrictive to the Edmonton scene, in that anyone who doesn't strictly follow these line of tournaments would actually be at a disadvantage in having to learn half the map pool which is counter-productive to what the general argument for them was. If the goal was to select maps where skill was the pure determinant I think it would be more prudent to choose maps everyone was familiar with, rather than based off win percentages by race, which as it stands most maps in the pool are currently within a 55% W/L ratio for either side anyways.

All in all if the tournament was designed to promote Edmonton starcraft then kudos, seems like it was a blast. If the goal was to promote starcraft in the greater population of Alberta, or even greater portions of Canada, then there could've been some tweaks to appeal to a greater spectrum in my opinion.

Had it been a one day, double elim tournament, I would have placed a hell of a lot higher than I did, hahaha.
ScareCrow`
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada88 Posts
November 28 2011 07:38 GMT
#206
On November 28 2011 16:07 prodiG wrote:
Playhem ran a 512 seed tournament online (if I'm not mistaken), that doesn't involve any setup time & you can basically bang all of your matches out one after another. 64 players doesn't take 6-8 hours, try over 14 when you're doing it at a live venue where you have to be shuffling players around because they're sitting right next each other, getting up and disappearing for brief stints of time, etc. There's always room for optimization but at all of the tournaments that I've been to at any lan center 64 people doing a double elim bracket in 6-8 hours is beyond unrealistic.

As far as the map pool is concerned, see spoiler or read full interview if you are interested

I can't speak entirely on behalf of CASL but I was one of the people who suggested that ~top 16 are in the money - this was based on the idea that 40-60 people would be showing up, not 20 based on IPL having a very similar model where players who did well even as early as the group stages were in the money. In the future I imagine this will be changed to be more top-heavy but that's not my call.



Well I was basing my numbers off watching GOMTV casts and relating the amount of time they take to cast a set to the time an entire round of sets would take with only 6 rounds. GOM usually takes 4 hours to cast 8~ Bo3 at full length, with 4 player booths. (Yet only using two at a time.) I can imagine any respectable lan to have at least half the space needed for competitors so you could have at least 32 players going at once. As for people shuffling around I think that's ...(BM?) to know you have a match approaching and not be present and ready to go. Tournaments usually deal with this by calling players to their rounds at time of play and DQ after significant periods of time. Since I mentioned playhem, an online tournament, I'll note that even they have a 15 minute max that you can be gone before you start getting default losses. Still, I guess I can see a tournament like this going a good 12+ hours if there isn't enough room to accommodate everyone.

I read the entire article in question actually before I posted my first comment, and I understand that there are "more balanced" maps, and the shift in the korean scene lately, even in GOM introducing maps like calm before the storm this season, but in relation to the map pool provided in this tournament almost half the maps available are not something a great portion of the players will be familiar with. I'm not saying resort to blizzard ladder maps only, but there are other options that have been used in MLG, GOM, and other noteworthy tournaments that would have been given exposure. I understand your connections with ESV and the promotion of maps through this way, but I think I speak for a large chunk of the group that didn't attend in that some of these are a little too "underground."

I don't mind the IPL prize system, or even NASL which almost has an identical format, but when get down to raw numbers it's where smaller tournaments can't really host in a fashion like this. The split in those tournaments we're still talking about players walking away with over a thousand dollars, even though the prize money at this point is not the reason they're going there so much as the exposure for their sponsors. If I were to play rock paper scissors with 3 of my friends over a dollar and the winner was to get 40 cents, the runner up 30 cents, and the other two get fifteen a piece I'm pretty sure we'd all rather just compete over the dollar itself. It just comes down to the actual value when we're getting into the lower ranges, especially since the greater portion of your players will be un-sponsored, and looking to make out with as much reward as we can for how much work we can put in. =)
Gofarman
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada645 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-28 07:53:05
November 28 2011 07:45 GMT
#207
On November 28 2011 15:43 ScareCrow` wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2011 14:35 Gofarman wrote:
On November 28 2011 13:01 ScareCrow` wrote:
On November 28 2011 11:24 burster wrote:
http://challonge.com/edmontonopen


Only 20 players?


That's what I thought.

lols, all good though.

On November 28 2011 14:15 prodiG wrote:
On November 28 2011 04:53 Shiro420 wrote:
I think what Gofarman is trying to accomplish should be commended. If there we're 12 people that showed up or 64, he was still willing to risk his own $1500 for a SET pot (not a starting pot). It can be expected that their first event wont be a blow out, but it's the first event, give this guy some credit. I'm sure he has learned allot of shit over the past few days that will only ensure that the next event (if there is one) will be a bigger success.

I think Edmonton should also be proud of this event going down. There has never been a payout this big for a starcraft 2 tournament. Gofarman has made history with this. By putting up $1500, he has set the stage for what looks like a good series of events to come.

hats off to you sir.

I could not agree more. Well fucking said sir. GG'z all today, I'm working on VODs right now


YEAH, Vod's FTW. gotta rewatch that 7 pool in the semi's

BEST
MICRO
EVA


That's really disappointing. I know at least 4-5 Calgarians who would've come personally including myself if it had been structured a little differently. It seems like it was a great tournament for anyone residing in Edmonton, but outside of that really not cost effective.

The prize pool itself is amazing, but taking into account how the tournament was run and how the pot was split really discouraged us. Entry fee and travel costs alone made first and second place the only profitable standings, and when we factored in that we'd have to stay a night it was thrown out the window. I don't think anyone is looking forward to play to win back their entry fee and anything below RO8, (or even RO4, realistically) shouldn't be rewarded, but instead offer a larger reward to the top dogs.

Expecting 64 people is reasonable, but I don't understand the need for 2 days from this. Playhem ran a 512 seed tournament today that lasted 3 hours. Having to stay an extra day really racks up the costs for anyone outside of town. 64 players is ultimately 6 rounds of games, which at most will take between 6-8 hours, if games are going their full lengths and playing full sets. Anyone who is serious about competing has no problem with this, I think.

There's been a few mentions about the map pool in this thread already so I won't bring much more of it to light...but it seems like this is also a thing more constrictive to the Edmonton scene, in that anyone who doesn't strictly follow these line of tournaments would actually be at a disadvantage in having to learn half the map pool which is counter-productive to what the general argument for them was. If the goal was to select maps where skill was the pure determinant I think it would be more prudent to choose maps everyone was familiar with, rather than based off win percentages by race, which as it stands most maps in the pool are currently within a 55% W/L ratio for either side anyways.

All in all if the tournament was designed to promote Edmonton starcraft then kudos, seems like it was a blast. If the goal was to promote starcraft in the greater population of Alberta, or even greater portions of Canada, then there could've been some tweaks to appeal to a greater spectrum in my opinion.


Glad that you guys heard about it and too bad you couldn't justify making it down. I'll try and address some of your points since they are completely reasonable.

Lower entry fee = Lower Prize pool. (that's just how it is.)

1 day vs 2 day.
Edmonton has historically had tournaments take epically long, I have streamlined the process quite a bit since 8 months ago but it will be further refined. With that said tournaments are a real stamina test for a lot of players and as an organizer I am a bit lax on this in cases. While being very strict about timing 'could' speed up my tournaments I am first a fan of the game and players and want them to show their best foot forward. (Players play better when they are not being harassed about warm up periods and short breaks between games) To accommodate this AS WELL as the lan center since evenings are their busiest times we have used the 2 day system. (this also allows me time for other stuff since I have an night to prepare for D2)

Map Pool-
As I have said before I am a strong believer that a good player should be able to adjust their play to the situation, whether that means patch changes or map changes. To that end I aimed to give some of these players incentive to develop skills that they might not consider otherwise, some cases it was a great success, others not so much. I will also admit I am a fanboi of ESV so that might taint my opinion for some people. Also, stale maps ftl. In addition both posting the starting map for the sets as well as each player getting a veto seems to solve what people thought were map imbalances.

Edmonton vs Alberta vs Greater parts of Canada (AKA Western Canada)

This is my first event that is a guaranteed prize pool, 3rd of it's kind in Western Canada I believe. If you look at the past events on par with this one none of them really had significant participation from outside their city. I did what I could to reach out to players in Calgary and a simple PM to me could have solved your issue with a hotel.

As for other issues such as raising the profile of players, community members and regions there is work to be done. No tournament will be able to do all of it perfectly (even well) but as a organizer I will do what I can to get the word out that there are good players in first Edmonton, then Alberta and soon all Canada. Once the ball is rolling everyone gets to pick the direction a bit.

CASL vs Playhem

Yes I took about 6x as long as them to run a bracket with 10% the people but I also think that running a single elim bracket is retarded, especially if people are driving and paying money to attend such an event. Your comparison highlights your lack of valid opinion on this matter.

My system gave the best players their best chance of winning while still having a timely end.
My opinion is that Groups>Double elim>Single elim although, hell I managed to use all 3 in 1 tourney.
+ Show Spoiler [ More about bracket systems] +
Let me expand my opinion on brackets a bit more;
Single Elim
-Great for raising hype and intrigue
-Seeding must be spot on to achieve the goal of a tourney
Double Elim
-Creates Marathon brackets
-Punishes players for bad play
-Allows for seeding anomalies
Group Stage (group of 4, 2 advance)
-Gives great info for seeds
-Allows players some certainty for practice

Now how does this all tie in to 1 tournament?
I see a tournament as measuring 3 skills of every player;
1. Skill- obv obv
2. Diversity- use of maps and units
3. Stamina- Physically and (more importantly) Mentally

My system of
Double elim ro64-->ro16 (tests stamina of players, cleans out the chaff)
Group Stage ro16-->ro8 (allows me to reward the top seeds, best way to reform a bracket and still award winners bracket players an advantage)
Single elim ro8-->winner (allows for a reasonably fast conclusion of tournament, seeds should be as close to perfect as can be)

After all that is said and done I believe that my tournament ultimately achieved what it set out to do, find the best player and give him money; while still rewarding players for performance and testing a sustainable model.

+ Show Spoiler [ @scarecrow] +
I will be honest though, but until you have organized, hosted and admin'd a tournament declaring how long a tournament 'should' take is pretty ridiculous.
OldManTekh
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada47 Posts
November 28 2011 07:54 GMT
#208
Mad props to Gofarman for organizing this. I was able to catch a few of the streamed games. Love seeing this #yeg stuff. ^^
ScareCrow`
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada88 Posts
November 28 2011 07:55 GMT
#209
Oh I understand the difference between single and double elims, and I'm completely for the double elimination model as well. I just included the player count to show the amount of rounds they had to go through to show that instead of 6 rounds in a 64 man tournament, they had to do 9. The beauty behind double elimination is that games can still be played in the lower bracket while the upper bracket is still going, effectively making the lower bracket's additional time negligible.

Playhem obviously has extreme advantages in everyone having their own computers and banging out game after game. I guess I'm just pushing for players to be more professional if given the proper setting to be able to perform when it's time to. I don't expect the brackets to go as fast as playhem, obviously, I just thought I'd give an example to how fast a tournament can go given perfect circumstances in real life. There's also the option of just starting earlier in the day and banging out 10-12 hours in one go. =)
CanucksJC
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada1241 Posts
November 28 2011 08:07 GMT
#210
On November 28 2011 14:42 ander wrote:
I'd say that top8 bracket was probably one of the scariest brackets you could have possibly assembled out of all of western Canada.

You couldn't be more wrong on this.

Sounds like people that were there had a great time, hope more people show up next time after some adjustments are made
UBC StarCraft Club is official @ UBC Vancouver campus! Your first eSport community on campus. Welcomes players of all levels at UBC. Follow us on facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/group.php?gid=155630424470014 or IRC @ irc.rizon.net #ubcsc
Gofarman
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada645 Posts
November 28 2011 08:48 GMT
#211
On November 28 2011 16:55 ScareCrow` wrote:
Oh I understand the difference between single and double elims, and I'm completely for the double elimination model as well. I just included the player count to show the amount of rounds they had to go through to show that instead of 6 rounds in a 64 man tournament, they had to do 9. The beauty behind double elimination is that games can still be played in the lower bracket while the upper bracket is still going, effectively making the lower bracket's additional time negligible.

Playhem obviously has extreme advantages in everyone having their own computers and banging out game after game. I guess I'm just pushing for players to be more professional if given the proper setting to be able to perform when it's time to. I don't expect the brackets to go as fast as playhem, obviously, I just thought I'd give an example to how fast a tournament can go given perfect circumstances in real life. There's also the option of just starting earlier in the day and banging out 10-12 hours in one go. =)


Every organizer will agree with me, this is dead wrong, utterly and completely wrong. Take a look at the number of rounds in the losers bracket of a 64 man tourney, and tell me they could keep up with the winners bracket.

seriously, do it.
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
November 28 2011 08:48 GMT
#212
Sounds like everyone had a great time. Sad to see that attendance couldn't be higher. A gave a shout to the UofA team but most people are burdened with projects and exams at this time, so only a couple of them could make it. We did help them practice on the new maps, that was pretty good. It's awesome that you guys are continuously taking the initiative to create these huge events in Edmonton and promote our local scene so well. I'll try to make it out to the next one
ScareCrow`
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada88 Posts
November 28 2011 09:02 GMT
#213
On November 28 2011 17:48 Gofarman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2011 16:55 ScareCrow` wrote:
Oh I understand the difference between single and double elims, and I'm completely for the double elimination model as well. I just included the player count to show the amount of rounds they had to go through to show that instead of 6 rounds in a 64 man tournament, they had to do 9. The beauty behind double elimination is that games can still be played in the lower bracket while the upper bracket is still going, effectively making the lower bracket's additional time negligible.

Playhem obviously has extreme advantages in everyone having their own computers and banging out game after game. I guess I'm just pushing for players to be more professional if given the proper setting to be able to perform when it's time to. I don't expect the brackets to go as fast as playhem, obviously, I just thought I'd give an example to how fast a tournament can go given perfect circumstances in real life. There's also the option of just starting earlier in the day and banging out 10-12 hours in one go. =)


Every organizer will agree with me, this is dead wrong, utterly and completely wrong. Take a look at the number of rounds in the losers bracket of a 64 man tourney, and tell me they could keep up with the winners bracket.

seriously, do it.


Woah man..no need to be so aggressive in your responses. I'm just trying to give some insight as to why your turn-out might not have been as high as expected. I personally feel like I missed out on something that was probably a fun experience, but in the end I felt I made the right decision in giving the event a pass due to monetary reasons.

I'm a huge proponent of supporting e-sports, locally and globally. I'm not here to bm your tournament, I'm trying to help your future endeavors.

Back on topic though, a double elimination lower bracket increases the round count by a single round, and the rest continues along the lines of the winners bracket. This will add aprox. an hour for the extra round? Maybe 1 1/2 to be safe? *shrug*

Anyways, going a little off track here. My point is that your turnout would have an increase of significance if play was reduced to a single day, which I don't think is completely unrealistic of a goal in dealing with numbers like these. =)
prodiG
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada2016 Posts
November 28 2011 09:37 GMT
#214
On November 28 2011 17:07 CanucksJC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2011 14:42 ander wrote:
I'd say that top8 bracket was probably one of the scariest brackets you could have possibly assembled out of all of western Canada.

You couldn't be more wrong on this.

Sounds like people that were there had a great time, hope more people show up next time after some adjustments are made

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ALBERTA VS BC MATCH LETS GO!~
ESV Mapmaking Team || http://twitter.com/prodiGsc || Real talk, I don't have time to sugar-coat it for you sir
CanucksJC
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada1241 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-28 10:10:47
November 28 2011 10:07 GMT
#215
On November 28 2011 18:37 prodiG wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2011 17:07 CanucksJC wrote:
On November 28 2011 14:42 ander wrote:
I'd say that top8 bracket was probably one of the scariest brackets you could have possibly assembled out of all of western Canada.

You couldn't be more wrong on this.

Sounds like people that were there had a great time, hope more people show up next time after some adjustments are made

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ALBERTA VS BC MATCH LETS GO!~

ALRIGHT LET'S GO SON.
Anyways, just to elaborate on my point, the past Vancouver tourny included 14 GM players, I don't think this has been matched by any local LAN.

Also to the guy saying that double elim only adds an extra round, that is not true. You'll find yourself wasting time waiting for people to fall into the lower bracket, causing delay everywhere. A 64-man double elim. bracket will not finish in a day.
UBC StarCraft Club is official @ UBC Vancouver campus! Your first eSport community on campus. Welcomes players of all levels at UBC. Follow us on facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/group.php?gid=155630424470014 or IRC @ irc.rizon.net #ubcsc
Gofarman
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada645 Posts
November 28 2011 17:09 GMT
#216
On November 28 2011 18:02 ScareCrow` wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2011 17:48 Gofarman wrote:
On November 28 2011 16:55 ScareCrow` wrote:
Oh I understand the difference between single and double elims, and I'm completely for the double elimination model as well. I just included the player count to show the amount of rounds they had to go through to show that instead of 6 rounds in a 64 man tournament, they had to do 9. The beauty behind double elimination is that games can still be played in the lower bracket while the upper bracket is still going, effectively making the lower bracket's additional time negligible.

Playhem obviously has extreme advantages in everyone having their own computers and banging out game after game. I guess I'm just pushing for players to be more professional if given the proper setting to be able to perform when it's time to. I don't expect the brackets to go as fast as playhem, obviously, I just thought I'd give an example to how fast a tournament can go given perfect circumstances in real life. There's also the option of just starting earlier in the day and banging out 10-12 hours in one go. =)


Every organizer will agree with me, this is dead wrong, utterly and completely wrong. Take a look at the number of rounds in the losers bracket of a 64 man tourney, and tell me they could keep up with the winners bracket.

seriously, do it.


Woah man..no need to be so aggressive in your responses. I'm just trying to give some insight as to why your turn-out might not have been as high as expected. I personally feel like I missed out on something that was probably a fun experience, but in the end I felt I made the right decision in giving the event a pass due to monetary reasons.

I'm a huge proponent of supporting e-sports, locally and globally. I'm not here to bm your tournament, I'm trying to help your future endeavors.

Back on topic though, a double elimination lower bracket increases the round count by a single round, and the rest continues along the lines of the winners bracket. This will add aprox. an hour for the extra round? Maybe 1 1/2 to be safe? *shrug*

Anyways, going a little off track here. My point is that your turnout would have an increase of significance if play was reduced to a single day, which I don't think is completely unrealistic of a goal in dealing with numbers like these. =)


No aggro, just trying to make it very clear.
tQArchaic
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada79 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-28 17:57:05
November 28 2011 17:34 GMT
#217
On November 28 2011 17:07 CanucksJC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2011 14:42 ander wrote:
I'd say that top8 bracket was probably one of the scariest brackets you could have possibly assembled out of all of western Canada.

You couldn't be more wrong on this.

Sounds like people that were there had a great time, hope more people show up next time after some adjustments are made


Haha JC if ladder ranking meant anything in tournaments i wouldnt have my 5 first place in edmonton and calgary not to mention the time i went to vancouver beat drewbie in group stages then lost to optik zeroes epik cheese. Yeah and drewbie won the whole thing.

not to toot my own horn cause heck i got hurt pretty bad this tournament, serovati and sunshine are bosses
Gofarman
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada645 Posts
November 28 2011 18:11 GMT
#218
On November 28 2011 19:07 CanucksJC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2011 18:37 prodiG wrote:
On November 28 2011 17:07 CanucksJC wrote:
On November 28 2011 14:42 ander wrote:
I'd say that top8 bracket was probably one of the scariest brackets you could have possibly assembled out of all of western Canada.

You couldn't be more wrong on this.

Sounds like people that were there had a great time, hope more people show up next time after some adjustments are made

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ALBERTA VS BC MATCH LETS GO!~

ALRIGHT LET'S GO SON.
Anyways, just to elaborate on my point, the past Vancouver tourny included 14 GM players, I don't think this has been matched by any local LAN.

Also to the guy saying that double elim only adds an extra round, that is not true. You'll find yourself wasting time waiting for people to fall into the lower bracket, causing delay everywhere. A 64-man double elim. bracket will not finish in a day.


You wanna do this?
If you guys can front some cash I will match it.
RoyalFlush
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada109 Posts
November 28 2011 18:29 GMT
#219
On November 28 2011 14:42 ander wrote:
I'd say that top8 bracket was probably one of the scariest brackets you could have possibly assembled out of all of western Canada.


what... LOL u must be joking right..
You called down the thunder?
Primadog
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4411 Posts
November 28 2011 18:59 GMT
#220
CanucksJC vs Gofarman bo13 grudgematch gogo!
Thank God and gunrun.
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