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If you don't know how to post in a live report thread by now, be advised: don't whine about game balance and don't bash players/casters/interviewers/staff/other posters. We are monitoring this thread closely.
Stop with the USA USA chant shit. Further offenses beyond page 493 will be met with bans. You've been warned. |
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Well, everybody must admir Stephano is really really good, want to see him fighting more to Korean pro
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On October 10 2011 14:06 doko100 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 14:04 ForeverSleep wrote:On October 10 2011 13:59 doko100 wrote:On October 10 2011 13:53 FryktSkyene wrote:On October 10 2011 13:36 doko100 wrote:On October 10 2011 13:29 fineshed wrote:On October 10 2011 13:25 doko100 wrote:On October 10 2011 12:51 quancer wrote:On October 10 2011 12:45 Azarkon wrote:On October 10 2011 12:43 Grapesludge wrote:
[quote]
The moment you say that you are taking away from his win. He didn't have an easy bracket, people try to find ways to discredit a player if they were not their favorite to win it. Yeah, it's really sad, imo. No, Stephano did not beat - head-to-head - the Korean players who were considered the best coming into the tournament - that would be MMA, MC, Ryung, and Puma - but he beat all the players who beat them. And by beating them, those players showed that they were themselves top-level players. So why take away from Stephano? I think a lot of people feel that Stephano is getting more credit than he's due. From my perspective, this cycle of overhyping one messiah only to abandon him and move onto another is pretty unhealthy. Stephano had a great tournament and is obviously a top player, but him beating mid-tier Koreans, (yes, they are mid-tier, because they have not shown to be consistently top-tier -- this should be an easy concept) in one tournament isn't any kind of proof that he's the greatest European player, or whatever else people are saying. While some are trying to discredit Stephano maliciously, that doesn't mean the points raised by others aren't legitimate. Really? Is every north american contaminated with ignorance now? Do you know anything about the european scene? Stephano is winning absolutely everything and european players are miles ahead of NA players, so Stephano is obviously the best foreigner, how can you even doubt that? You should watch some EU tournament streams or his own stream and stop being so goddamn ignorant. you call people out for discrediting his win and then do exactly the same and it's all based on typical north american ignorance, it's not just americans I've made the experience that canadians can and actually are a million times more ignorant than americans, there's just so few of them that nobody usually cares about them. Whoah; that's a really dangerous post right there. Why is it dangerous? it's the truth, look at all the north americans in this thread and how they are bming stephano. stephano has shown consistent results over a couple of months now, he has dominated the EU ladder, EU tournaments and now IPL 3. Yet there still are people who claim that "hes not that good". I mean seriously? How ignorant can you be.... name one foreigner that is actually better than him.... I really want to know? Thorzain? He played this tournament and lost, Idra? he lost to the guy stephano beat..... Huk? Huk lost to stephano...so who is better, seriously? This is what I mean by ignorance... the guy just won a major tournament with some of the very top koreans participating and all people have to do is talk a huge load of crap about him. And it's mainly north americans.... if you don't want to be called ignorant then simply -> don't be so ignorant all the time. Not to be ignorant or anything (and im in NA...) But He didn't play "The best koreans" he played good ones. Not the very top ones though. Also, one tourny win does'nt make you better than everyone else just because they were also in it. Thats like saying MVP didn't win Code S this season so obv the guy who knocked him out is better, Which is just not the case. Edit: Before I get flamed, He did play amazing and he did deserve that win. He's also a top foerigner imo. The Best? Debateable. But my point is that it's not just this one tournament, he's dominating the EU scene for literally months now, I know you are probably not aware of this (which is in fact ignorance) and I don't blame you for that, I know very little about NA american players (but thats mainly down to the fact that most of them really aren't very good) , I however blame you guys for not listening to the europeans that know the european scene much better than you do.Why is it so hard for you to accept that stephano is the best european player at the moment? I know that because I watch most of the european tournaments and he is absolutely demolishing everyone there. So yes, the actual ignorance is that you just won't listen. Like I said it's not just IPL3, he also dominated europe over the last few months, so I'm 100% sure that he's the best foreigner at the moment. so...that's your good reason for making racist comments and do a massive generalization? really? lol racist comments? because I call north americans ignorant when the guys I was arguing with even admitted that they know next to nothing about the european scene? makes sense.
How can we know anything about the european scene if you don't even tell us what movie it is from?! We are not telepathetic you know!
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On October 10 2011 14:05 doko100 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 14:01 soulist wrote:On October 10 2011 13:55 OneOther wrote:On October 10 2011 13:42 quancer wrote:On October 10 2011 13:37 Passion wrote:On October 10 2011 13:33 quancer wrote:On October 10 2011 13:25 doko100 wrote:On October 10 2011 12:51 quancer wrote:On October 10 2011 12:45 Azarkon wrote:On October 10 2011 12:43 Grapesludge wrote:
[quote]
The moment you say that you are taking away from his win. He didn't have an easy bracket, people try to find ways to discredit a player if they were not their favorite to win it. Yeah, it's really sad, imo. No, Stephano did not beat - head-to-head - the Korean players who were considered the best coming into the tournament - that would be MMA, MC, Ryung, and Puma - but he beat all the players who beat them. And by beating them, those players showed that they were themselves top-level players. So why take away from Stephano? I think a lot of people feel that Stephano is getting more credit than he's due. From my perspective, this cycle of overhyping one messiah only to abandon him and move onto another is pretty unhealthy. Stephano had a great tournament and is obviously a top player, but him beating mid-tier Koreans, (yes, they are mid-tier, because they have not shown to be consistently top-tier -- this should be an easy concept) in one tournament isn't any kind of proof that he's the greatest European player, or whatever else people are saying. While some are trying to discredit Stephano maliciously, that doesn't mean the points raised by others aren't legitimate. Really? Is every north american contaminated with ignorance now? Do you know anything about the european scene? Stephano is winning absolutely everything and european players are miles ahead of NA players, so Stephano is obviously the best foreigner, how can you even doubt that? You should watch some EU tournament streams or his own stream and stop being so goddamn ignorant. you call people out for discrediting his win and then do exactly the same and it's all based on typical north american ignorance, it's not just americans I've made the experience that canadians can and actually are a million times more ignorant than americans, there's just so few of them that nobody usually cares about them. The point I was making was that regardless of whether Stephano proves to be the best European player or not, his performance this tournament does not make it indisputable, and to make such an assessment requires a long-term view. What does that have to do with whether I know anything about the European scene? Get a grip, maybe? The real question is, why do you (and others, in all mentions of "you") feel this is the moment to tell Stephano fans their hero sucks, or at least isn't as good as they think? Not to say you're to blame - I don't understand the over reacting emotionally instable fans either. Of course you're right and rational, but your timing sucks. Well personally, I only posted in this thread in defense of those getting accused of being assholes for expressing their opinion that Stephano had a relatively easy bracket, which was a statement I agreed with overall. The purpose of an LR thread is for people to discuss results, so I don't see why it's not legitimate for people to share those kinds of opinions. I mean, this isn't the Stephano appreciation thread, so people shouldn't expect everyone else to be as excited/hyped for a player as they are. People are going to be upset when folks try to discredit or belittle someone's skill level or ability based on unsubstantial reasoning, especially after a great tournament run like Stephano's. It doesn't really make sense to say "Oh he's the greatest foreigner right now," but you have to realize you can't really say he's not, either. I, for one, don't think Stephano had an easy bracket. I mean, look at the players he beat in this tournament - MarineKing, MMA, HuK, TheStC, Violet, and Lucky. That's a pretty impressive list to me, but it is irrelevant to my point. You are being rational, and I am not arguing that Stephano is the best foreigner or the next zerg savior or anything like that. But why continuously try to bring him down just because he didn't get to face MMA? Is that actually a good reason to knock him down, the fact that he destroyed the player who beat MMA and Ryung? I mean, why is it so important that you (not you, specifically) let everyone know you think he had an easy run and don't think he's as good as some other fans think? Stephano played amazingly throughout this entire tournament, and I am fine with people being super excited with (and perhaps exaggerating) his accomplishment here. I am rambling a bit but I guess my point is let's just appreciate what Stephano has achieved in this tournament. He represented the foreigners well and pulled off a great win against some tough adds stacked against him. In a dominant fashion, too. Cherish it, and move on. I just find it pointless to really get heated about how well he would do in GSL or whether he's the best foreigner or not. I think it was absolutely beautiful that he won this tournament. He played better than anyone else at this tournament. But just because he wins 1 tournament means that he's the best foreign player? Where are all the people that said that thorzain was the best foreigner after he almost beat drg at valencia? Sure stephano is one of the best, but the absolute best? No not at all. For god's sake man. It's not just this one tournament. He's dominating all the european tournaments aswell. This is what I mean by ignorance you don't know anything about the european scene. You only saw him win IPL3, I and many other europeans however saw him dominate numerous european tournaments over the last few months.So why are you surprised that people call you ignorant, when you know next to nothing about the guy and the start to argue with people that are following stephano for months now? It's so hypocritical.
Yeah, Im not sure why people are going on about "Ah well he won this ONE tournament, he needs more results to show consistency" when he's been doing well in tournaments before IPL3.
ggwp Stephano, too bad he didn't win in time before I switched to Terran from Zerg, just couldn't take it anymore! XD
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Where will vods be posted, do you need premium?
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On October 10 2011 13:55 OneOther wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 13:42 quancer wrote:On October 10 2011 13:37 Passion wrote:On October 10 2011 13:33 quancer wrote:On October 10 2011 13:25 doko100 wrote:On October 10 2011 12:51 quancer wrote:On October 10 2011 12:45 Azarkon wrote:On October 10 2011 12:43 Grapesludge wrote:On October 10 2011 12:37 Dante08 wrote:
Cmon guys you have to admit Stephano got a relatively easy bracket.
Not taking anything away from his win, I watched the ZvZ finals and he completely outplayed Lucky. His game sense is crazy. The moment you say that you are taking away from his win. He didn't have an easy bracket, people try to find ways to discredit a player if they were not their favorite to win it. Yeah, it's really sad, imo. No, Stephano did not beat - head-to-head - the Korean players who were considered the best coming into the tournament - that would be MMA, MC, Ryung, and Puma - but he beat all the players who beat them. And by beating them, those players showed that they were themselves top-level players. So why take away from Stephano? I think a lot of people feel that Stephano is getting more credit than he's due. From my perspective, this cycle of overhyping one messiah only to abandon him and move onto another is pretty unhealthy. Stephano had a great tournament and is obviously a top player, but him beating mid-tier Koreans, (yes, they are mid-tier, because they have not shown to be consistently top-tier -- this should be an easy concept) in one tournament isn't any kind of proof that he's the greatest European player, or whatever else people are saying. While some are trying to discredit Stephano maliciously, that doesn't mean the points raised by others aren't legitimate. Really? Is every north american contaminated with ignorance now? Do you know anything about the european scene? Stephano is winning absolutely everything and european players are miles ahead of NA players, so Stephano is obviously the best foreigner, how can you even doubt that? You should watch some EU tournament streams or his own stream and stop being so goddamn ignorant. you call people out for discrediting his win and then do exactly the same and it's all based on typical north american ignorance, it's not just americans I've made the experience that canadians can and actually are a million times more ignorant than americans, there's just so few of them that nobody usually cares about them. The point I was making was that regardless of whether Stephano proves to be the best European player or not, his performance this tournament does not make it indisputable, and to make such an assessment requires a long-term view. What does that have to do with whether I know anything about the European scene? Get a grip, maybe? The real question is, why do you (and others, in all mentions of "you") feel this is the moment to tell Stephano fans their hero sucks, or at least isn't as good as they think? Not to say you're to blame - I don't understand the over reacting emotionally instable fans either. Of course you're right and rational, but your timing sucks. Well personally, I only posted in this thread in defense of those getting accused of being assholes for expressing their opinion that Stephano had a relatively easy bracket, which was a statement I agreed with overall. The purpose of an LR thread is for people to discuss results, so I don't see why it's not legitimate for people to share those kinds of opinions. I mean, this isn't the Stephano appreciation thread, so people shouldn't expect everyone else to be as excited/hyped for a player as they are. People are going to be upset when folks try to discredit or belittle someone's skill level or ability based on unsubstantial reasoning, especially after a great tournament run like Stephano's. It doesn't really make sense to say "Oh he's the greatest foreigner right now," but you have to realize you can't really say he's not, either. I, for one, don't think Stephano had an easy bracket. I mean, look at the players he beat in this tournament - MarineKing, MMA, HuK, TheStC, Violet, and Lucky. That's a pretty impressive list to me, but it is irrelevant to my point. You are being rational, and I am not arguing that Stephano is the best foreigner or the next zerg savior or anything like that. But why continuously try to bring him down just because he didn't get to face MMA? Is that actually a good reason to knock him down, the fact that he destroyed the player who beat MMA and Ryung? I mean, why is it so important that you let everyone know you think he had an easy run and don't think he's as good as some other fans think? Stephano played amazingly throughout this entire tournament, and I am fine with people being super excited with (and perhaps exaggerating) his accomplishment here. I am rambling a bit but I guess my point is let's just appreciate what Stephano has achieved in this tournament. He represented the foreigners well and pulled off a great win against some tough adds stacked against him. In a dominant fashion, too. Cherish it, and move on.
Well, although I never intended to rain on anyone's parade, and only posted in defense of the logic of others who were being called haters or idiots or whatever, I'll give my perspective.
I think it's unfair to tell people they can't make qualifying points about a player's results in a tournament, which is essentially what the "Why can't you leave him alone?" sentiment amounts to. It's an attack on the perceived intent and not the logic. Obviously sometimes posts are completely without merit or add nothing to the conversation, but why should that be at a detriment to those who want to share an opposing opinion?
In my opinion, Stephano played amazingly, and obviously proved that he could be a major force on the international scene, but it's certainly debatable whether this IPL win is more significant than HuK's Dreamhack, and etc (NOTE* I am not taking a stance on this and only use this as an example). Disagreeing with some that he hasn't locked down the title of best player in Europe isn't tantamount to being a hater, or raining on people's parades, and to say that really cheapens the discussion -- which is what a good LR thread should be.
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On October 10 2011 14:05 doko100 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 14:01 soulist wrote:On October 10 2011 13:55 OneOther wrote:On October 10 2011 13:42 quancer wrote:On October 10 2011 13:37 Passion wrote:On October 10 2011 13:33 quancer wrote:On October 10 2011 13:25 doko100 wrote:On October 10 2011 12:51 quancer wrote:On October 10 2011 12:45 Azarkon wrote:On October 10 2011 12:43 Grapesludge wrote:
[quote]
The moment you say that you are taking away from his win. He didn't have an easy bracket, people try to find ways to discredit a player if they were not their favorite to win it. Yeah, it's really sad, imo. No, Stephano did not beat - head-to-head - the Korean players who were considered the best coming into the tournament - that would be MMA, MC, Ryung, and Puma - but he beat all the players who beat them. And by beating them, those players showed that they were themselves top-level players. So why take away from Stephano? I think a lot of people feel that Stephano is getting more credit than he's due. From my perspective, this cycle of overhyping one messiah only to abandon him and move onto another is pretty unhealthy. Stephano had a great tournament and is obviously a top player, but him beating mid-tier Koreans, (yes, they are mid-tier, because they have not shown to be consistently top-tier -- this should be an easy concept) in one tournament isn't any kind of proof that he's the greatest European player, or whatever else people are saying. While some are trying to discredit Stephano maliciously, that doesn't mean the points raised by others aren't legitimate. Really? Is every north american contaminated with ignorance now? Do you know anything about the european scene? Stephano is winning absolutely everything and european players are miles ahead of NA players, so Stephano is obviously the best foreigner, how can you even doubt that? You should watch some EU tournament streams or his own stream and stop being so goddamn ignorant. you call people out for discrediting his win and then do exactly the same and it's all based on typical north american ignorance, it's not just americans I've made the experience that canadians can and actually are a million times more ignorant than americans, there's just so few of them that nobody usually cares about them. The point I was making was that regardless of whether Stephano proves to be the best European player or not, his performance this tournament does not make it indisputable, and to make such an assessment requires a long-term view. What does that have to do with whether I know anything about the European scene? Get a grip, maybe? The real question is, why do you (and others, in all mentions of "you") feel this is the moment to tell Stephano fans their hero sucks, or at least isn't as good as they think? Not to say you're to blame - I don't understand the over reacting emotionally instable fans either. Of course you're right and rational, but your timing sucks. Well personally, I only posted in this thread in defense of those getting accused of being assholes for expressing their opinion that Stephano had a relatively easy bracket, which was a statement I agreed with overall. The purpose of an LR thread is for people to discuss results, so I don't see why it's not legitimate for people to share those kinds of opinions. I mean, this isn't the Stephano appreciation thread, so people shouldn't expect everyone else to be as excited/hyped for a player as they are. People are going to be upset when folks try to discredit or belittle someone's skill level or ability based on unsubstantial reasoning, especially after a great tournament run like Stephano's. It doesn't really make sense to say "Oh he's the greatest foreigner right now," but you have to realize you can't really say he's not, either. I, for one, don't think Stephano had an easy bracket. I mean, look at the players he beat in this tournament - MarineKing, MMA, HuK, TheStC, Violet, and Lucky. That's a pretty impressive list to me, but it is irrelevant to my point. You are being rational, and I am not arguing that Stephano is the best foreigner or the next zerg savior or anything like that. But why continuously try to bring him down just because he didn't get to face MMA? Is that actually a good reason to knock him down, the fact that he destroyed the player who beat MMA and Ryung? I mean, why is it so important that you (not you, specifically) let everyone know you think he had an easy run and don't think he's as good as some other fans think? Stephano played amazingly throughout this entire tournament, and I am fine with people being super excited with (and perhaps exaggerating) his accomplishment here. I am rambling a bit but I guess my point is let's just appreciate what Stephano has achieved in this tournament. He represented the foreigners well and pulled off a great win against some tough adds stacked against him. In a dominant fashion, too. Cherish it, and move on. I just find it pointless to really get heated about how well he would do in GSL or whether he's the best foreigner or not. I think it was absolutely beautiful that he won this tournament. He played better than anyone else at this tournament. But just because he wins 1 tournament means that he's the best foreign player? Where are all the people that said that thorzain was the best foreigner after he almost beat drg at valencia? Sure stephano is one of the best, but the absolute best? No not at all. For god's sake man. It's not just this one tournament. He's dominating all the european tournaments aswell. This is what I mean by ignorance you don't know anything about the european scene. You only saw him win IPL3, I and many other europeans however saw him dominate numerous european tournaments over the last few months.So why are you surprised that people call you ignorant, when you know next to nothing about the guy and the start to argue with people that are following stephano for months now? It's so hypocritical.
Somebody tell this guy that with this thing called the interwebz distance means as little to him in Austria as somebody in America. People know all about Stephano's resume. The TLPD link is literally almost touching most of your posts that keep repeating this "ignorance" nonsense.
And plenty of EU people will still argue with you that Dimaga, Mana, Thorzain, Nerchio, etc. are still better than Stephano after this. Quit your pretentious posts saying that people are ignorant Americans if they say something like Thorzain is better. It's all subjective.
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Why can't we be impressed that 3 Foreigners made top 8 at an event with an impressive cast of Korean talent? Stephano beat Lucky who I thought would for sure take the whole thing, with the way he was rolling SlayerS terrans. I have to be impressed with that. Sure we shouldn't over-hype him, but with how nicely run IPL 3 was, its hard not to be in the mindset that this was as prestigious as a Code S final.
Grats to Stephano, I hope to see you at the top of more tourneys soon! Grats to IPL, you really know how to run a great show!
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Australia8532 Posts
Holy crap Stephano! Living up to all that hype haha after looking like he was about to pass out on day 1 this is a really cool result 
I am so happy to see this result! Slasher is double bald now haha
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On October 10 2011 13:59 Gotmog wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 13:49 BLIZZ123 wrote:
well, he's really a good player.Want to see him fighting in GSL code A. You wont see that.
Then his perceived skill will always be lacking in legitimacy.
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I seriously hope Stephano has the ambition to go to Korea. He could very well be the best foreigner soon enough if he trains with better players.
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This will probably fall on deaf troll ears for the most part, but im ashamed some of these things hasnt already been mentioned.
If you honestly cant tell a player by his play (multitasking, builds, decision making etc.) I honestly dont know what to say... Some of the statements in this thread completely disregard everything around the results and focus 100% on the actual scores when they carry no significance towards what happend in the game (apart from the black and white of who won), as a way to discbribe Stephano's road through this tourney, which is quite frankly, rediculous. In an offline tournament so many things come into account, like nerves, jetlag and keeping your cool through all the games you play.
Stephano has not attended alot of offline tournaments, before this one the only one I can recall is Assembly summer, where he got third place, edged out 3-2 (i believe) by Dimaga (No one can deny his ZvZ prowess) who went on to win the entire tournament over MaNa in the finals. This time he won the entire tournament, which (pretty much everyone agreed on beforehand) was the toughest Korean competition of any foreign event to date.
The fact that the Koreans who were expected to shine did not bring their a-game (and they didnt) takes very little away from Stephano, if you werent half-asleep, not paying attention to the games other than the supply count and ooo-ing and aaahhh-ing everytime a baneling exploded (pretty bright lights, right?) The caster's imo did a poor job overall describing anything apart from the blatantly obvious stuff (and even getting that wrong on a few occations).
My point being if you just look at the games you would see that Stephano kept cool, calm and collected, had exceptional decision making and map awarness, executed builds nicely and pretty much COMPLETELY outplayed everyone he got matched against (apart from one Code S terran who hardcountered Stephano's mass ling style, in a set that was not critical for the final standings of the event). He crushed Violet, lost one game to TheStc (who is actually quite awful at TvZ) where TheStc had map control with hellions and took an unrealisticly fast third, which gave him a huge lead that no decent terran would have been able to throwaway, and he actually almost did.
The other games were a complete slaughter against TheStc.
His hardest opponent this tournament was by far Inori, who had an insane run this tournament. Lost game one to a strong 8 gate attack, where he made 10 drones after scouting alot of gates and the combination of the proxy pylon made the stiuation unwinnable (even if he would have had spines, the third would have been undefended, and he would probably have lost too much) He played the shakuras game perfectly where he denyed Inori's attempt at a fast third before compeltely saturating three bases himself, even getting his fourth before Inori's third was able to be used. Inori had a shot in that game with storm and blink stalkers vs mass broodlord/corruptor, but pretty much threw it away going Voidrays I feel (corruptor/infestor is just too good vs mass air). Third game Inori tried for another 8 gate, but Stephano didnt make the same mistake twice and did a perfect hold. This was the only series that really tested Stephano to his limits, and Inori took out players like MC (his PvP is still pretty damn good, even though he his not the wreckingball he used to be) and HuK, which has arguably been "best foreigner" for quite some time now, putting up good results in Korea and during foreign events; which Stephano also did beat during group play 2-0 in pretty convincing fashion.
His games vs Kiwikaki were some of the most entertaining PvZ's i've seen in a long time, especially Shattered Temple match was insane. His play during this tournament was great and the fact that MMA, Ryung, ThorZain, HuK and Hero didnt play to their full potential this tournament does not take anything away from Stephano who, lets be honest, won this tournament easily.
I havent seen any critique to Stephano's play, mistakes he did, bad decisions, sloppy micro/macro, the only critique so far has been who he demolished. Would things have been different if MMA played to his normal gosu standards? If Idra had slept, would he have beaten TheStc? If NesTea had been there would he have won for sure? What about MVP? We will never know, the only thing im sure of is that the games would have been much better and Stephano would actually have had to work for this win, saying he would have lost is just as silly as saying he would have won, you cant know. The great koreans didnt play to their potential, didnt make it past opponents on worse form than Stephano and they didnt deserve to win this tournament, Stephano did.
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On October 10 2011 14:05 doko100 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 14:01 soulist wrote:On October 10 2011 13:55 OneOther wrote:On October 10 2011 13:42 quancer wrote:On October 10 2011 13:37 Passion wrote:On October 10 2011 13:33 quancer wrote:On October 10 2011 13:25 doko100 wrote:On October 10 2011 12:51 quancer wrote:On October 10 2011 12:45 Azarkon wrote:On October 10 2011 12:43 Grapesludge wrote:
[quote]
The moment you say that you are taking away from his win. He didn't have an easy bracket, people try to find ways to discredit a player if they were not their favorite to win it. Yeah, it's really sad, imo. No, Stephano did not beat - head-to-head - the Korean players who were considered the best coming into the tournament - that would be MMA, MC, Ryung, and Puma - but he beat all the players who beat them. And by beating them, those players showed that they were themselves top-level players. So why take away from Stephano? I think a lot of people feel that Stephano is getting more credit than he's due. From my perspective, this cycle of overhyping one messiah only to abandon him and move onto another is pretty unhealthy. Stephano had a great tournament and is obviously a top player, but him beating mid-tier Koreans, (yes, they are mid-tier, because they have not shown to be consistently top-tier -- this should be an easy concept) in one tournament isn't any kind of proof that he's the greatest European player, or whatever else people are saying. While some are trying to discredit Stephano maliciously, that doesn't mean the points raised by others aren't legitimate. Really? Is every north american contaminated with ignorance now? Do you know anything about the european scene? Stephano is winning absolutely everything and european players are miles ahead of NA players, so Stephano is obviously the best foreigner, how can you even doubt that? You should watch some EU tournament streams or his own stream and stop being so goddamn ignorant. you call people out for discrediting his win and then do exactly the same and it's all based on typical north american ignorance, it's not just americans I've made the experience that canadians can and actually are a million times more ignorant than americans, there's just so few of them that nobody usually cares about them. The point I was making was that regardless of whether Stephano proves to be the best European player or not, his performance this tournament does not make it indisputable, and to make such an assessment requires a long-term view. What does that have to do with whether I know anything about the European scene? Get a grip, maybe? The real question is, why do you (and others, in all mentions of "you") feel this is the moment to tell Stephano fans their hero sucks, or at least isn't as good as they think? Not to say you're to blame - I don't understand the over reacting emotionally instable fans either. Of course you're right and rational, but your timing sucks. Well personally, I only posted in this thread in defense of those getting accused of being assholes for expressing their opinion that Stephano had a relatively easy bracket, which was a statement I agreed with overall. The purpose of an LR thread is for people to discuss results, so I don't see why it's not legitimate for people to share those kinds of opinions. I mean, this isn't the Stephano appreciation thread, so people shouldn't expect everyone else to be as excited/hyped for a player as they are. People are going to be upset when folks try to discredit or belittle someone's skill level or ability based on unsubstantial reasoning, especially after a great tournament run like Stephano's. It doesn't really make sense to say "Oh he's the greatest foreigner right now," but you have to realize you can't really say he's not, either. I, for one, don't think Stephano had an easy bracket. I mean, look at the players he beat in this tournament - MarineKing, MMA, HuK, TheStC, Violet, and Lucky. That's a pretty impressive list to me, but it is irrelevant to my point. You are being rational, and I am not arguing that Stephano is the best foreigner or the next zerg savior or anything like that. But why continuously try to bring him down just because he didn't get to face MMA? Is that actually a good reason to knock him down, the fact that he destroyed the player who beat MMA and Ryung? I mean, why is it so important that you (not you, specifically) let everyone know you think he had an easy run and don't think he's as good as some other fans think? Stephano played amazingly throughout this entire tournament, and I am fine with people being super excited with (and perhaps exaggerating) his accomplishment here. I am rambling a bit but I guess my point is let's just appreciate what Stephano has achieved in this tournament. He represented the foreigners well and pulled off a great win against some tough adds stacked against him. In a dominant fashion, too. Cherish it, and move on. I just find it pointless to really get heated about how well he would do in GSL or whether he's the best foreigner or not. I think it was absolutely beautiful that he won this tournament. He played better than anyone else at this tournament. But just because he wins 1 tournament means that he's the best foreign player? Where are all the people that said that thorzain was the best foreigner after he almost beat drg at valencia? Sure stephano is one of the best, but the absolute best? No not at all. For god's sake man. It's not just this one tournament. He's dominating all the european tournaments aswell. This is what I mean by ignorance you don't know anything about the european scene. You only saw him win IPL3, I and many other europeans however saw him dominate numerous european tournaments over the last few months.So why are you surprised that people call you ignorant, when you know next to nothing about the guy and the start to argue with people that are following stephano for months now? It's so hypocritical.
Stop calling people ignorant, the European tournaments he is winning are low prize weekly's/monthly's and a French championship. He played well at IPL 3 and deserved the win, but this is his first MAJOR tournament victory.
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On October 10 2011 12:52 TotalBiscuit wrote:
The internet, where a lot of unimportant people try and devalue those better than them.
On October 10 2011 12:58 GenoZStriker wrote:
This is why we can't have nice thing. A foreign player wins a tournament with Koreans and we are arguing about some of the dumbest thing to devalue the players achievement.
True, but the statement is too simple. Some people devalue/overvalue players' skills. Some reject exaggerations (for better or for worse). Some try to be objective. It doesn't do justice to the range of intentions and explanations.
On October 10 2011 12:51 quancer wrote:
I think a lot of people feel that Stephano is getting more credit than he's due. From my perspective, this cycle of overhyping one messiah only to abandon him and move onto another is pretty unhealthy. Stephano had a great tournament and is obviously a top player, but him beating mid-tier Koreans, (yes, they are mid-tier, because they have not shown to be consistently top-tier -- this should be an easy concept) in one tournament isn't any kind of proof that he's the greatest European player, or whatever else people are saying.
While some are trying to discredit Stephano maliciously, that doesn't mean the points raised by others aren't legitimate.
On October 10 2011 12:56 Passion wrote:
Fair enough. Nevertheless he seems to have torn up the brackets this weekend.
While perhaps slightly hyped up, you can't blame those who root for him for their excitement. At least, I can't. And stopping either fanboys or haters is pretty much impossible. There's too many of 'm.
All I can say is that this was an awesome performance; congratulations to Stephano.
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On October 10 2011 14:06 doko100 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 14:04 ForeverSleep wrote:On October 10 2011 13:59 doko100 wrote:On October 10 2011 13:53 FryktSkyene wrote:On October 10 2011 13:36 doko100 wrote:On October 10 2011 13:29 fineshed wrote:On October 10 2011 13:25 doko100 wrote:On October 10 2011 12:51 quancer wrote:On October 10 2011 12:45 Azarkon wrote:On October 10 2011 12:43 Grapesludge wrote:
[quote]
The moment you say that you are taking away from his win. He didn't have an easy bracket, people try to find ways to discredit a player if they were not their favorite to win it. Yeah, it's really sad, imo. No, Stephano did not beat - head-to-head - the Korean players who were considered the best coming into the tournament - that would be MMA, MC, Ryung, and Puma - but he beat all the players who beat them. And by beating them, those players showed that they were themselves top-level players. So why take away from Stephano? I think a lot of people feel that Stephano is getting more credit than he's due. From my perspective, this cycle of overhyping one messiah only to abandon him and move onto another is pretty unhealthy. Stephano had a great tournament and is obviously a top player, but him beating mid-tier Koreans, (yes, they are mid-tier, because they have not shown to be consistently top-tier -- this should be an easy concept) in one tournament isn't any kind of proof that he's the greatest European player, or whatever else people are saying. While some are trying to discredit Stephano maliciously, that doesn't mean the points raised by others aren't legitimate. Really? Is every north american contaminated with ignorance now? Do you know anything about the european scene? Stephano is winning absolutely everything and european players are miles ahead of NA players, so Stephano is obviously the best foreigner, how can you even doubt that? You should watch some EU tournament streams or his own stream and stop being so goddamn ignorant. you call people out for discrediting his win and then do exactly the same and it's all based on typical north american ignorance, it's not just americans I've made the experience that canadians can and actually are a million times more ignorant than americans, there's just so few of them that nobody usually cares about them. Whoah; that's a really dangerous post right there. Why is it dangerous? it's the truth, look at all the north americans in this thread and how they are bming stephano. stephano has shown consistent results over a couple of months now, he has dominated the EU ladder, EU tournaments and now IPL 3. Yet there still are people who claim that "hes not that good". I mean seriously? How ignorant can you be.... name one foreigner that is actually better than him.... I really want to know? Thorzain? He played this tournament and lost, Idra? he lost to the guy stephano beat..... Huk? Huk lost to stephano...so who is better, seriously? This is what I mean by ignorance... the guy just won a major tournament with some of the very top koreans participating and all people have to do is talk a huge load of crap about him. And it's mainly north americans.... if you don't want to be called ignorant then simply -> don't be so ignorant all the time. Not to be ignorant or anything (and im in NA...) But He didn't play "The best koreans" he played good ones. Not the very top ones though. Also, one tourny win does'nt make you better than everyone else just because they were also in it. Thats like saying MVP didn't win Code S this season so obv the guy who knocked him out is better, Which is just not the case. Edit: Before I get flamed, He did play amazing and he did deserve that win. He's also a top foerigner imo. The Best? Debateable. But my point is that it's not just this one tournament, he's dominating the EU scene for literally months now, I know you are probably not aware of this (which is in fact ignorance) and I don't blame you for that, I know very little about NA american players (but thats mainly down to the fact that most of them really aren't very good) , I however blame you guys for not listening to the europeans that know the european scene much better than you do.Why is it so hard for you to accept that stephano is the best european player at the moment? I know that because I watch most of the european tournaments and he is absolutely demolishing everyone there. So yes, the actual ignorance is that you just won't listen. Like I said it's not just IPL3, he also dominated europe over the last few months, so I'm 100% sure that he's the best foreigner at the moment. so...that's your good reason for making racist comments and do a massive generalization? really? lol racist comments? because I call north americans ignorant when the guys I was arguing with even admitted that they know next to nothing about the european scene? makes sense.
so what's your definition of generalization then? Pretty sure your comment on canadians was a nice generalization and does go under rude and racist in my book, just saying...
I understand your point . Hell, I am even French myself (like in born in France), so of course for me a huge joy when I see him destroy people in such a big tournament, However, there are other ways to defend your opinions than putting a whole continent in a pack like you did...
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Beating theStc's TvZ and taking the final 4:0. Seriously?
Congratz Stephano! Very well played!
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Also, Stephano was known to be extremely good even before the Homestory Cup, where he beat the players who were considered the best non-Korean players at the time. I thought it was pretty common knowledge even back then actually. He had been known to be unbelievably good at the game despite playing only a couple hours a day due to high school (back then).
If you're ignorant of that fact and you can't accept that Stephano has been consistently brilliant for the last few months then you probably have had a pretty narrow perception of the international scene for a while. Maybe the fact that I'm Australian makes me more receptible to news from all the scenes.
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ToD takes the SEC and Stephano the IPL3, what is going on? :D
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Stephano WILL be going to Korea (in 2012 I think?). He said it in an interview on one of the prime streams.
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On October 10 2011 14:12 ForeverSleep wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 14:06 doko100 wrote:On October 10 2011 14:04 ForeverSleep wrote:On October 10 2011 13:59 doko100 wrote:On October 10 2011 13:53 FryktSkyene wrote:On October 10 2011 13:36 doko100 wrote:On October 10 2011 13:29 fineshed wrote:On October 10 2011 13:25 doko100 wrote:On October 10 2011 12:51 quancer wrote:On October 10 2011 12:45 Azarkon wrote:
[quote]
Yeah, it's really sad, imo.
No, Stephano did not beat - head-to-head - the Korean players who were considered the best coming into the tournament - that would be MMA, MC, Ryung, and Puma - but he beat all the players who beat them.
And by beating them, those players showed that they were themselves top-level players. So why take away from Stephano? I think a lot of people feel that Stephano is getting more credit than he's due. From my perspective, this cycle of overhyping one messiah only to abandon him and move onto another is pretty unhealthy. Stephano had a great tournament and is obviously a top player, but him beating mid-tier Koreans, (yes, they are mid-tier, because they have not shown to be consistently top-tier -- this should be an easy concept) in one tournament isn't any kind of proof that he's the greatest European player, or whatever else people are saying. While some are trying to discredit Stephano maliciously, that doesn't mean the points raised by others aren't legitimate. Really? Is every north american contaminated with ignorance now? Do you know anything about the european scene? Stephano is winning absolutely everything and european players are miles ahead of NA players, so Stephano is obviously the best foreigner, how can you even doubt that? You should watch some EU tournament streams or his own stream and stop being so goddamn ignorant. you call people out for discrediting his win and then do exactly the same and it's all based on typical north american ignorance, it's not just americans I've made the experience that canadians can and actually are a million times more ignorant than americans, there's just so few of them that nobody usually cares about them. Whoah; that's a really dangerous post right there. Why is it dangerous? it's the truth, look at all the north americans in this thread and how they are bming stephano. stephano has shown consistent results over a couple of months now, he has dominated the EU ladder, EU tournaments and now IPL 3. Yet there still are people who claim that "hes not that good". I mean seriously? How ignorant can you be.... name one foreigner that is actually better than him.... I really want to know? Thorzain? He played this tournament and lost, Idra? he lost to the guy stephano beat..... Huk? Huk lost to stephano...so who is better, seriously? This is what I mean by ignorance... the guy just won a major tournament with some of the very top koreans participating and all people have to do is talk a huge load of crap about him. And it's mainly north americans.... if you don't want to be called ignorant then simply -> don't be so ignorant all the time. Not to be ignorant or anything (and im in NA...) But He didn't play "The best koreans" he played good ones. Not the very top ones though. Also, one tourny win does'nt make you better than everyone else just because they were also in it. Thats like saying MVP didn't win Code S this season so obv the guy who knocked him out is better, Which is just not the case. Edit: Before I get flamed, He did play amazing and he did deserve that win. He's also a top foerigner imo. The Best? Debateable. But my point is that it's not just this one tournament, he's dominating the EU scene for literally months now, I know you are probably not aware of this (which is in fact ignorance) and I don't blame you for that, I know very little about NA american players (but thats mainly down to the fact that most of them really aren't very good) , I however blame you guys for not listening to the europeans that know the european scene much better than you do.Why is it so hard for you to accept that stephano is the best european player at the moment? I know that because I watch most of the european tournaments and he is absolutely demolishing everyone there. So yes, the actual ignorance is that you just won't listen. Like I said it's not just IPL3, he also dominated europe over the last few months, so I'm 100% sure that he's the best foreigner at the moment. so...that's your good reason for making racist comments and do a massive generalization? really? lol racist comments? because I call north americans ignorant when the guys I was arguing with even admitted that they know next to nothing about the european scene? makes sense. so what's your definition of generalization then? Pretty sure your comment on canadians was a nice generalization and does go under rude and racist in my book, just saying...
Dude he's from Austria. He's automatically better than us, don't you know?
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EPT
