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On October 03 2011 13:24 Olinim wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2011 13:22 Pirat6662001 wrote:On October 03 2011 13:19 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On October 03 2011 13:12 Pirat6662001 wrote:On October 03 2011 13:11 Malstriks wrote:On October 03 2011 13:09 Pirat6662001 wrote:On October 03 2011 13:06 Gatored wrote:On October 03 2011 13:04 Scila wrote:On October 03 2011 13:04 dmnum wrote:On October 03 2011 13:02 TYJ.Aoy wrote:
I kinda expected him to botch that attack, too much stuff to do at the same time equals doing nothing at all(sieging, moving the bio back, EMPing and microing the vikings). What you said makes sense, except you don't really micro vikings, you just shift focus all the colossi. Yeah have fun doing that when all your vikings die in 2 storms Have fun not being able to storm in the first place because your HT got EMP'd. We can play this game all day long... There is not agrument- terran is really strong, and in small/ medium groups is better. But in true max army Toss has a huge micro advantage Terran Micro: dogging storms Sieging tanks Emps/snipes Vikings targeting Stimming Kitting with bio Toss micro- place couple good storms FF make sure zealots and archons ar einfront Dodge EMP Wayyyy less to do. Thus- equal skill- max army- toss win post your evidence for this, that's just theorycrafting. last game.... in this tourney also- can u come up with other nessasary micro for toss? cause all of terran micro needs to happen to win cause collosus and templar together do more damage than should be allowed No you really don't need all that to win as Terran, you hit those emps and HT and archons are useless gas dumps.... Vikings targeting collosi isn't exactly a micro tasking skill. emp can literally do 1000's of points in shield damage at a time and you complain about the dmg output of Collosi HT(Two of the highest tech units toss can get)? Seriously? u forgot carries/ mothership  the missing component of toss army Maybe in bronze league. Blizzard themselves admit some units aren't intended for high level play(cough motherships and carriers).
If you get enough of them they are really good. They're not bad units, they just take a long time to produce.
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On October 03 2011 13:24 Olinim wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2011 13:22 Pirat6662001 wrote:On October 03 2011 13:19 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On October 03 2011 13:12 Pirat6662001 wrote:On October 03 2011 13:11 Malstriks wrote:On October 03 2011 13:09 Pirat6662001 wrote:On October 03 2011 13:06 Gatored wrote:On October 03 2011 13:04 Scila wrote:On October 03 2011 13:04 dmnum wrote:On October 03 2011 13:02 TYJ.Aoy wrote:
I kinda expected him to botch that attack, too much stuff to do at the same time equals doing nothing at all(sieging, moving the bio back, EMPing and microing the vikings). What you said makes sense, except you don't really micro vikings, you just shift focus all the colossi. Yeah have fun doing that when all your vikings die in 2 storms Have fun not being able to storm in the first place because your HT got EMP'd. We can play this game all day long... There is not agrument- terran is really strong, and in small/ medium groups is better. But in true max army Toss has a huge micro advantage Terran Micro: dogging storms Sieging tanks Emps/snipes Vikings targeting Stimming Kitting with bio Toss micro- place couple good storms FF make sure zealots and archons ar einfront Dodge EMP Wayyyy less to do. Thus- equal skill- max army- toss win post your evidence for this, that's just theorycrafting. last game.... in this tourney also- can u come up with other nessasary micro for toss? cause all of terran micro needs to happen to win cause collosus and templar together do more damage than should be allowed No you really don't need all that to win as Terran, you hit those emps and HT and archons are useless gas dumps.... Vikings targeting collosi isn't exactly a micro tasking skill. emp can literally do 1000's of points in shield damage at a time and you complain about the dmg output of Collosi HT(Two of the highest tech units toss can get)? Seriously? u forgot carries/ mothership the missing component of toss army Maybe in bronze league. Blizzard themselves admit some units aren't intended for high level play(cough motherships and carriers).
Poor carriers 
once upon a time in a land far far away known as brood war carriers were actually very good against Terran.
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On October 03 2011 13:23 Darathor wrote:
It just makes me so happy to see Strelok lifting those marauders to snipe the colossus at the end. I've always dreamed of terran doing that, and Strelok finally did it.
It definitely tipped that battle in his favor.  I do agree with you, it's good to see players keep doing the "little things" better and better. Micro's fun to watch!
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On October 03 2011 13:25 Scila wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2011 13:24 Olinim wrote:On October 03 2011 13:22 Pirat6662001 wrote:On October 03 2011 13:19 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On October 03 2011 13:12 Pirat6662001 wrote:On October 03 2011 13:11 Malstriks wrote:On October 03 2011 13:09 Pirat6662001 wrote:On October 03 2011 13:06 Gatored wrote:On October 03 2011 13:04 Scila wrote:On October 03 2011 13:04 dmnum wrote:
[quote]
What you said makes sense, except you don't really micro vikings, you just shift focus all the colossi. Yeah have fun doing that when all your vikings die in 2 storms Have fun not being able to storm in the first place because your HT got EMP'd. We can play this game all day long... There is not agrument- terran is really strong, and in small/ medium groups is better. But in true max army Toss has a huge micro advantage Terran Micro: dogging storms Sieging tanks Emps/snipes Vikings targeting Stimming Kitting with bio Toss micro- place couple good storms FF make sure zealots and archons ar einfront Dodge EMP Wayyyy less to do. Thus- equal skill- max army- toss win post your evidence for this, that's just theorycrafting. last game.... in this tourney also- can u come up with other nessasary micro for toss? cause all of terran micro needs to happen to win cause collosus and templar together do more damage than should be allowed No you really don't need all that to win as Terran, you hit those emps and HT and archons are useless gas dumps.... Vikings targeting collosi isn't exactly a micro tasking skill. emp can literally do 1000's of points in shield damage at a time and you complain about the dmg output of Collosi HT(Two of the highest tech units toss can get)? Seriously? u forgot carries/ mothership the missing component of toss army Maybe in bronze league. Blizzard themselves admit some units aren't intended for high level play(cough motherships and carriers). If you get enough of them they are really good. They're not bad units, they just take a long time to produce. And therein lies the problem. Very minimal returns for an enormous resource/time/chrono sink unless your opponent just lets you sit back and get 200/200 carriers.
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On October 03 2011 13:25 Hierarch wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2011 13:21 rdj107 wrote:
So how come terrans don't get the medivac energy upgrade? Seems like it would be useful as the match goes on; do they need the reactored port that much? It's just always better to make another medivac, and yes having the reactored starport is insanely important
Also more medivac energy = food for my HT Feedback
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I've watched 3 games from elfi so far and I'm very far from impressed, maybe everyone played like crap in the groupstage is what I'm thinking.
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On October 03 2011 13:25 Hierarch wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2011 13:21 rdj107 wrote:
So how come terrans don't get the medivac energy upgrade? Seems like it would be useful as the match goes on; do they need the reactored port that much? It's just always better to make another medivac, and yes having the reactored starport is insanely important
There's also the issue of feedback getting more powerful the less spread your medivac energy is.
We might see it more in the future though.
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Bad idea to send in the stalkers. Switching tech was a good idea, because he's playing behind in econ early. Hopefully he get's them up and running quickly. The bunkers will be hard to bust.
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On October 03 2011 13:27 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2011 13:25 Hierarch wrote:On October 03 2011 13:21 rdj107 wrote:
So how come terrans don't get the medivac energy upgrade? Seems like it would be useful as the match goes on; do they need the reactored port that much? It's just always better to make another medivac, and yes having the reactored starport is insanely important Also more medivac energy = food for my HT Feedback
On the other hand, it's bait for feedbacks, and it's rare for HTs to have enough energy for both feedback and storm...
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On October 03 2011 13:24 Gary Oak wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2011 13:21 rdj107 wrote:
So how come terrans don't get the medivac energy upgrade? Seems like it would be useful as the match goes on; do they need the reactored port that much? I've honestly wondered this myself. If you're going MMMG, why not have a Tech Lab on a Starport for a little bit to get the upgrade before you swap it out for a Reactor? Yes, it slows down Medivac production, but you won't always have the economy to pump 2 at a time continuously right when your Starport is finished, depending on when you build it. The only major drawback is it makes them better Feedback targets.
You kinda need the time to build medivacss and vikings. Notice how last game strelok only had like 2 vikings when elfi first pushed with colossus. If he had put his starport on a tech lab for the upgrade then he would have had less medivacs and vikings plus the upgrade probably wouldn't be done yet.
And for saying you can't always produce 2 medivacs at a time, then you probably wouldn't have the money for the upgrade.
I suppose you could get it late game, but by then you probably already have a mass of full energy medivacs plus you aren't producing them anymore
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On October 03 2011 13:28 InserT_FreQ wrote:
Bad idea to send in the stalkers. Switching tech was a good idea, because he's playing behind in econ early. Hopefully he get's them up and running quickly. The bunkers will be hard to bust.
At the very least marauders can't kite stalkers as easily as they can zealots.
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United Kingdom38257 Posts
6gate for Elfi.
Clutch marauder scouts the approach for Strelok letting him pull workers in time to fend it off, Elfi doesn't overcommit once he realises it's not happening though so things certainly aren't over.
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Go Elfi go! Too bad it's Strelok that he's facing, i would've liked them both to advance
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On October 03 2011 13:21 Pirat6662001 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2011 13:16 Jakkerr wrote:On October 03 2011 13:09 Pirat6662001 wrote:On October 03 2011 13:06 Gatored wrote:On October 03 2011 13:04 Scila wrote:On October 03 2011 13:04 dmnum wrote:On October 03 2011 13:02 TYJ.Aoy wrote:
I kinda expected him to botch that attack, too much stuff to do at the same time equals doing nothing at all(sieging, moving the bio back, EMPing and microing the vikings). What you said makes sense, except you don't really micro vikings, you just shift focus all the colossi. Yeah have fun doing that when all your vikings die in 2 storms Have fun not being able to storm in the first place because your HT got EMP'd. We can play this game all day long... There is not agrument- terran is really strong, and in small/ medium groups is better. But in true max army Toss has a huge micro advantage Terran Micro: dogging storms Sieging tanks Emps/snipes Vikings targeting Stimming Kitting with bio Toss micro- place couple good storms FF make sure zealots and archons ar einfront Dodge EMP Wayyyy less to do. Thus- equal skill- max army- toss win If this is true then why doesn't the GSL have 20 protoss instead of 20 terrans in code S? Since most Bo3's get decided on 200/200 fights. Stop spreading lies -.- What GSL do u watch? terran dominates the timing pushes in 100-150 range and then goes into late game with great advantage. Like i said- early/ mid game is unquestionably terran but late game/ max upgrades is way better for toss
You don't have to dodge storms in the first place if you hit all your EMPs since they outrange all of the HTs abilities. In lategame fights 99% of games don't have tanks. You don't use snipe in big engagements, you use EMP. Snipe is used in situations where you have a ghost/HT standoff where each player is sniping or feedbacking each other. You can easily get away with just A moving vikings (pretty sure most terrans don't focus fire in the middle of a battle). Stimming doesn't really require micro, it is really easy to hit before you engage the protoss army. I guess you're right that it does require some micro to kite.
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There really should not be any balance talk here, because neither player is playing well at all.
Honestly, I feel like I'm watching diamond games here....
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Not sure why Strelok scouted with a marauder instead of a marine, but seeing that coming was invaluable. Scouting is everything it seems.
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5 gate pressure was actually pretty awesome to see. He made strelok pull and lose so many scvs for almost nothing.
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Strelok plz hit before storm! You held off 5gate and this is your time to go :O
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Luckiest storm timing ever.
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EPT
