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On September 20 2011 21:22 Demonace34 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 21:21 Demonace34 wrote:On September 20 2011 21:20 Demonace34 wrote:On September 20 2011 21:19 Demonace34 wrote:On September 20 2011 21:17 Demonace34 wrote:1:45 Ryung goes for gas first build. Bomber goes rax into gas. 3:10 Factory goes down for Ryung, Bomber's factory is a bit behind. Bomber pressures with 2 marines and an scv. 4:40 Bomber throws down CC and a starport. Ryung goes for BFH and throws down his other gas. 6:00 Starport finishes for Ryung and gets a viking out. Ryung moving across the map for pressure. Bomber's viking goes toward Ryung's main. 7:30 Ryung puts down his CC, Bomber's viking picks off the scv building it. Bomber's viking goes back towards the main and gets picked off by some marines in the middle of the map.
9:20 Raven comes up for Ryung. Siege mode starts for bomber and they both secure their expansions. Both players going mech.
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On September 20 2011 21:22 Badfatpanda wrote:
Why are 10 pages of Terran imba formed whenever a toss loses, but Z and T are ggs....He was fucking 40 supply down because he blind countered a build that Bomber didn't actually do.
40 supply.
Bomber metagamed Puzzle, Puzzle took the bait and Bomber came out ridiculously ahead, it has nothing to do with EMP he just got ridiculously out macroed.
Haa yeah, the thread was so nice after Oz killed Byun after being so much behind TT
It's to a point that no terran win is legit, that's sad.
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Orbitals shouldn't be able to be lifted, that would help a ton with scouting issues for both races against T.
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On September 20 2011 21:19 branflakes14 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 21:17 Itsmedudeman wrote:On September 20 2011 21:16 branflakes14 wrote:On September 20 2011 21:14 Itsmedudeman wrote:On September 20 2011 21:13 labbe wrote:On September 20 2011 21:11 SilverforceX wrote:On September 20 2011 21:08 Mahavishnu wrote:
why do protoss players suck with high templars? Cos EMP is longer range and aoe, and snipe is longer range than feedback? Removal of KA upgraded made templars suck worse vs ghosts. The question should be, if you have ghosts, how do you even lose vs templars? Or you could just *gasp* have the high templars inside a warp prism, you know like they do in that other game called brood war. That would never work against a pro gamer though! It's just theorycraft! Oh wait, jk, Byun vs. Oz game where Byun gets rolled. You mean that one where Byun's army was about 30 supply smaller, the limited Ghosts were godawfully controlled and the Templar in the Warp Prism were completely ineffectual? Yeah, you're making shit up. Byun was never 30 supply down and those hts in the warp prism absolutely destroyed byun. Warp prisms make up the speed that hts lack and also are stupid difficult to emp right when they get dropped. Not all of his Templar were in the Warp Prism. I remember one of the Prism Templar being hit with an EMP the second it landed though.
So? He still has 3 other templars and they don't all unload at the same time so there's no way he's gonna get 1 to emp all of them at the same time. He got literally over 6 storms off in 1 engagement and was able to get them close enough thanks to the prism to get it in the middle of his army. Just watch the god damn game and there's no way you can argue that it was 20x more effective than not having a warp prism.
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..cheater terran...
User was temp banned for this post.
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On September 20 2011 21:23 Demonace34 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 21:22 Demonace34 wrote:On September 20 2011 21:21 Demonace34 wrote:On September 20 2011 21:20 Demonace34 wrote:On September 20 2011 21:19 Demonace34 wrote:On September 20 2011 21:17 Demonace34 wrote:1:45 Ryung goes for gas first build. Bomber goes rax into gas. 3:10 Factory goes down for Ryung, Bomber's factory is a bit behind. Bomber pressures with 2 marines and an scv. 4:40 Bomber throws down CC and a starport. Ryung goes for BFH and throws down his other gas. 6:00 Starport finishes for Ryung and gets a viking out. Ryung moving across the map for pressure. Bomber's viking goes toward Ryung's main. 7:30 Ryung puts down his CC, Bomber's viking picks off the scv building it. Bomber's viking goes back towards the main and gets picked off by some marines in the middle of the map. 9:20 Raven comes up for Ryung. Siege mode starts for bomber and they both secure their expansions. Both players going mech.
11:00 Hellions jocking for position in the middle of the map. Rax being used for scouting at this point. Bomber going up for armory and puts down another expansion.
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Bomber for the sc2 cheater terran ?
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On September 20 2011 21:16 Thereisnosaurus wrote:I dunno man, it seems pretty hard to win. If you split them they just get sniped off one by one like there. If you clump them you might get a couple of feedbacks off but then 2 EMPs come in and it's over. because of medivacs and ghosts having 100 HP the terran can kind of afford to walk all his ghosts around in a clump, meaning any time a temp has a go at them it's going to be outnumbered and thus not be cost efficient. I could see a great player running them behind his army and storming from there but that's really tricky and it means your whole army is guaranteed to get EMPed running in, which is pretty much GG in any case. It feels like ghosts are the easier unit to control and more damaging, which is fine, I think the main problem is that marine-marauder is such an economical composition and so effective against toss that a terran can eventually just pump whole waves of ghosts and get into the situation where they have 10 or 20. A protoss simply can't keep up with that on the caster front without switching to an entirely zealot based army, which coincidentally is fucking awful against marine-marauder-ghost-medivac. Time and again I've seen armies get stormed to hell and gone, but what's left is more than enough to finish off zealots and only the archon morphs make it a trade. Terran keeps the medivacs and probably some ghosts if they cloak, toss has to remake everything.
Can you take the balance discussion in another thread, or make a new one please. This is the Live Report thread for GSL and some people can't watch the live stream so a LR thread is very neat.
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On September 20 2011 21:18 cablesc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 21:15 Desert Fox wrote:
Why do High Templars have to be balanced against Ghosts? Well why does Protoss have to be balanced against Terran? I'm not going to QQ too much but ghosts are very strong vs protoss. Maybe too strong. Blizz should take a look at them at least.
Silly word play. Ghosts are strong against Protoss players, I agree. Herp derp, Colossi are strong against Marines. End herp derp. Fundamentally, I believe there is something wrong with the TvP matchup. Does Blizzard need to do something? I believe so. Does it need to be that High Templars can go toe to toe with Ghosts? Why? Ghosts come equipped with EMP, have more capabilities and are more versatile than High Templars, which need their AOE spell to be researched. Perhaps they're not supposed to be in the same category?
Perhaps Ghosts were designed with having an advantage over High Templars. Perhaps that's something fundamental to Blizzard's design of the matchup. Perhaps they have something else in mind when it comes to balancing.
I just think it's absurd that it is a maxim that they be balanced against one another. I'd rather be open minded about it and not say HT must be able to fight Ghost.
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On September 20 2011 21:24 Demonace34 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 21:23 Demonace34 wrote:On September 20 2011 21:22 Demonace34 wrote:On September 20 2011 21:21 Demonace34 wrote:On September 20 2011 21:20 Demonace34 wrote:On September 20 2011 21:19 Demonace34 wrote:On September 20 2011 21:17 Demonace34 wrote:1:45 Ryung goes for gas first build. Bomber goes rax into gas. 3:10 Factory goes down for Ryung, Bomber's factory is a bit behind. Bomber pressures with 2 marines and an scv. 4:40 Bomber throws down CC and a starport. Ryung goes for BFH and throws down his other gas. 6:00 Starport finishes for Ryung and gets a viking out. Ryung moving across the map for pressure. Bomber's viking goes toward Ryung's main. 7:30 Ryung puts down his CC, Bomber's viking picks off the scv building it. Bomber's viking goes back towards the main and gets picked off by some marines in the middle of the map. 9:20 Raven comes up for Ryung. Siege mode starts for bomber and they both secure their expansions. Both players going mech. 11:00 Hellions jocking for position in the middle of the map. Rax being used for scouting at this point. Bomber going up for armory and puts down another expansion.
12:50 Hellions harass Bomber's mineral line, but it gets cleaned up easily. Ryung takes a ton of tank shots in the middle of the map. Thors coming out from bomber.
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Well I guess I was offtopic..
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Wow, how to form a siege line 2 screens long in 5 seconds by Bomer :o
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HOly crap mass thors from Bomber
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On September 20 2011 21:18 cablesc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 21:15 Desert Fox wrote:
Why do High Templars have to be balanced against Ghosts? Well why does Protoss have to be balanced against Terran? I'm not going to QQ too much but ghosts are very strong vs protoss. Maybe too strong. Blizz should take a look at them at least.
Even if protoss doesnt make a single sentry/HT/archon (units that Ghost "counter", supposedly), EMPs are still remove shields from all protoss units in that aoe, so incorporating 2-3 ghost into an army to fight something like say chargelots,collosus, stalkers, is still pretty useful by just spamming EMP over the protoss army. Since zerg has no shields, emp is only used for countering infestors etc and while snipe is also relatively easy to use and extremely effective against broodlords etc, its nothing like spamming E anywhere everywhere over a protoss army.
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lol, it's kinda scary how 2 thors come out within 15s of each other...damn Korean tvt is so refined
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On September 20 2011 21:16 acrimoneyius wrote:
Off hand, does anyone know if you can hallucinate a high templar?
I just tried. Yes, you can. 100 energy spawns two HTs.
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If ghosts are supposed to be better than templar then where does Protoss get a counter-balancing advantage? It certainly isn't in the core gateway/barracks comparison - Terran wins by miles there too. All that remains is colossi which get demolished by vikings.
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On September 20 2011 21:25 Demonace34 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 21:24 Demonace34 wrote:On September 20 2011 21:23 Demonace34 wrote:On September 20 2011 21:22 Demonace34 wrote:On September 20 2011 21:21 Demonace34 wrote:On September 20 2011 21:20 Demonace34 wrote:On September 20 2011 21:19 Demonace34 wrote:On September 20 2011 21:17 Demonace34 wrote:1:45 Ryung goes for gas first build. Bomber goes rax into gas. 3:10 Factory goes down for Ryung, Bomber's factory is a bit behind. Bomber pressures with 2 marines and an scv. 4:40 Bomber throws down CC and a starport. Ryung goes for BFH and throws down his other gas. 6:00 Starport finishes for Ryung and gets a viking out. Ryung moving across the map for pressure. Bomber's viking goes toward Ryung's main. 7:30 Ryung puts down his CC, Bomber's viking picks off the scv building it. Bomber's viking goes back towards the main and gets picked off by some marines in the middle of the map. 9:20 Raven comes up for Ryung. Siege mode starts for bomber and they both secure their expansions. Both players going mech. 11:00 Hellions jocking for position in the middle of the map. Rax being used for scouting at this point. Bomber going up for armory and puts down another expansion. 12:50 Hellions harass Bomber's mineral line, but it gets cleaned up easily. Ryung takes a ton of tank shots in the middle of the map. Thors coming out from bomber.
14:10 Ryung drops his vikings down to stop bomber from taking the right gold base. Forcing a cancel. Ryung getting up the left gold base. Viking harassment from Ryung at Bomber's 3rd.
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On September 20 2011 21:18 Maghetti wrote:
FXOWolf Wolf Schröder
People need to learn to put those Templar in Warp Prisms. Watching those HT walk into sniper rounds repeatedly was pretty rough.
2 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
I get using WP dropoffs during an engagement to storm, but I don't see how it'd be very effective for what Puzzle was trying to do, which was kamikaze-ing HTs to pick off Ghosts before getting into an engagement. Flying a lone warp prism up to the Terran ball to be stimmed down just makes it costlier.
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Netherlands19137 Posts
Sigh, drop the whole balance and unit discussions. This is not the topic for it. If this continues I will just ban every single one of you again that contributed to it the last 66 pages. Tiresome that people just refuse to get it and keep doing it. Tournament topics are not the place for these discussions.
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EPT
