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On August 08 2011 04:35 hifriend wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 04:17 TheHova wrote:On August 08 2011 02:51 Talin wrote:On August 08 2011 02:40 Beyonder wrote:On August 08 2011 02:38 msjakofsky wrote:On August 08 2011 02:33 darthfoley wrote:On August 08 2011 01:54 mokuhazushi wrote:
Naniwa loses, the crowd chants his name, Naniwa smiles. Fucking awesome. i felt as though he was awkwardly surprised and embarressed to get so much positive attention after getting 2-0'd. Not a huge fan of naniwa but it was really nice to see imo yeah i like the guy. too bad ret's zvp is pretty bonjwa. nani needs some good eu zerg training partner to be a pvz bonjwa about the idra vs ret dispute, it's apples and oranges- idra's vT and vZ is more bonjwa while ret's vP is more bonjwa. but honestly, both of them are lesser players now than Huk, it seems you really need some korean training to bonjwa better in these tournaments. Actually, I think ret himself would disagree with you there, his zvp isnt actually that impressive. It might sound strange after these games, but normally he has a mental block on that match up. Naniwa kind of played bad :o Of course Ret played well, but what you said is not really true. I know what you're thinking of, but I think that ZvP block may be a thing of the past. Not only because of the overall performances today, but because of the confidence in his economic openings, and the way he seems to have an exact plan for everything Protoss comes up (even when it doesn't get executed or doesn't work out). Multitasking and forcing opponents to multitask has made the most difference for Ret in the last month or so imo. And Protoss players are usually more hurt by that than Terrans are. This is also why Nani seemed to play worse than usual - I'm pretty sure that if I rewatch his recent PvZs he didn't have to deal with a similar style of play. I can't think of many Zerg players who were this active with their units and kinda fluid in their play. I don't think it's only the fact that he's gotten over a mental block. The whole meta game has shifted. When Ret was struggling against Protoss. Protoss had a lot of things that Zergs hadn't figured out how to counter/deal with him effectively. But most top Zergs have figured these things out now and it's actually Protoss behind in the match up, they're now the race that need to sit at the drawing board and figure things out. Ret's just doing what he's learnt and should be doing very well. Which is great to see. So not only has he gotten a ton better in general in the match up. But his strategies are so much better than before because of how the game has shifted. As for who the best Zerg is, all i can say is I wish people would stop making guesses and assumptions at the end of every tournament over who the best player of X race and X region is. Funny how the development of pvz practically mirrors sc:bw. Zerg fast expands and it's generally held that protoss can't do that safely -> Protoss desperately tries to do 1 base timings in order to cripple the zerg and prevent them from getting econ advantages early game -> Zerg figures out how to scout and defend the common one base timings -> Protoss eventually starts fast expanding (forge expand, 3 gate sentry expand) -> Zergs desperately try to break the protosses with roach/ling timings or very early roach rushes (hydra breaks/mass ling in bw) -> Protoss figures out how to defend these and has a period of good econ focused openings -> Zergs start double expanding rather than busting the protoss expands, but the precautionary measures protoss have to apply in order to defend roach/ling busts are still in place And maybe that's where we're at now. If things keep progressing similarly to how they did in brood war, the next step would be some sort of equivalence to the fast expand into archon/speedlot +1 timings, which was a push designed to punish a quick third before the macro advantage has kicked in properly.
The 6 gate and 7 gate pushes sort of do that, but thats not as tech orientated.
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On August 08 2011 04:46 Whalecore wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 04:35 hifriend wrote:On August 08 2011 04:17 TheHova wrote:On August 08 2011 02:51 Talin wrote:On August 08 2011 02:40 Beyonder wrote:On August 08 2011 02:38 msjakofsky wrote:On August 08 2011 02:33 darthfoley wrote:On August 08 2011 01:54 mokuhazushi wrote:
Naniwa loses, the crowd chants his name, Naniwa smiles. Fucking awesome. i felt as though he was awkwardly surprised and embarressed to get so much positive attention after getting 2-0'd. Not a huge fan of naniwa but it was really nice to see imo yeah i like the guy. too bad ret's zvp is pretty bonjwa. nani needs some good eu zerg training partner to be a pvz bonjwa about the idra vs ret dispute, it's apples and oranges- idra's vT and vZ is more bonjwa while ret's vP is more bonjwa. but honestly, both of them are lesser players now than Huk, it seems you really need some korean training to bonjwa better in these tournaments. Actually, I think ret himself would disagree with you there, his zvp isnt actually that impressive. It might sound strange after these games, but normally he has a mental block on that match up. Naniwa kind of played bad :o Of course Ret played well, but what you said is not really true. I know what you're thinking of, but I think that ZvP block may be a thing of the past. Not only because of the overall performances today, but because of the confidence in his economic openings, and the way he seems to have an exact plan for everything Protoss comes up (even when it doesn't get executed or doesn't work out). Multitasking and forcing opponents to multitask has made the most difference for Ret in the last month or so imo. And Protoss players are usually more hurt by that than Terrans are. This is also why Nani seemed to play worse than usual - I'm pretty sure that if I rewatch his recent PvZs he didn't have to deal with a similar style of play. I can't think of many Zerg players who were this active with their units and kinda fluid in their play. I don't think it's only the fact that he's gotten over a mental block. The whole meta game has shifted. When Ret was struggling against Protoss. Protoss had a lot of things that Zergs hadn't figured out how to counter/deal with him effectively. But most top Zergs have figured these things out now and it's actually Protoss behind in the match up, they're now the race that need to sit at the drawing board and figure things out. Ret's just doing what he's learnt and should be doing very well. Which is great to see. So not only has he gotten a ton better in general in the match up. But his strategies are so much better than before because of how the game has shifted. As for who the best Zerg is, all i can say is I wish people would stop making guesses and assumptions at the end of every tournament over who the best player of X race and X region is. Funny how the development of pvz practically mirrors sc:bw. Zerg fast expands and it's generally held that protoss can't do that safely -> Protoss desperately tries to do 1 base timings in order to cripple the zerg and prevent them from getting econ advantages early game -> Zerg figures out how to scout and defend the common one base timings -> Protoss eventually starts fast expanding (forge expand, 3 gate sentry expand) -> Zergs desperately try to break the protosses with roach/ling timings or very early roach rushes (hydra breaks/mass ling in bw) -> Protoss figures out how to defend these and has a period of good econ focused openings -> Zergs start double expanding rather than busting the protoss expands, but the precautionary measures protoss have to apply in order to defend roach/ling busts are still in place And maybe that's where we're at now. If things keep progressing similarly to how they did in brood war, the next step would be some sort of equivalence to the fast expand into archon/speedlot +1 timings, which was a push designed to punish a quick third before the macro advantage has kicked in properly. Yup! Could mass sentry with +1 chargelots be an option? Or too weak vs queens/spines maybe.
Well it won't work verses a zerg who is pumping roaches off 3 bases
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IdrA and Ret are probably equal overall but have different attributes.
I think Ret's approach to the game and his potential ability is probably higher than IdrAs. He has incredible macro too but probably better micro than IdrA.
IdrA has a determination that can't be matched by Ret though. He grinds game, he masters strategies and is able to play games out in such a calculated manner. His attention to detail in the construction of his builds is second to none. If there's an advantage to be gained somewhere IdrA will find it.
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Hope you enjoyed our cheering. I am proud of the audience , the cheers during the final were mostly trolling Cormac, who said to cheer every scout, creep tumour, chronoboost etc.
Managed to exchange a few words with Ret, and told him its amazing to see how much greed he can get away with, to witch he replied he tries to push it to the limit 
I wish Nani would show some more emotion, I guess he really doesn't wasnt to settle to anything but a win. His indifference to out chanting was amazing, that guy is a true robot 
Mr Bitter is a super nice guy as well.
The organization could be better as the place was steaming hot all the time, and you had to wait in line if you went out, Ret seemed to looked to be most affected by it , but I guess it helped his game in the end.
After the end I managed to bump into White ra and Strelok and got some cool photos with them, I was afraid they were gone after the first day, so I feel lucky.
Amazing event , I had a blast
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On August 08 2011 05:11 stren wrote:Hope you enjoyed our cheering. I am proud of the audience , the cheers during the final were mostly trolling Cormac, who said to cheer every scout, creep tumour, chronoboost etc. Managed to exchange a few words with Ret, and told him its amazing to see how much greed he can get away with, to witch he replied he tries to push it to the limit I wish Nani would show some more emotion, I guess he really doesn't wasnt to settle to anything but a win. His indifference to out chanting was amazing, that guy is a true robot Mr Bitter is a super nice guy as well. The organization could be better as the place was steaming hot all the time, and you had to wait in line if you went out, Ret seemed to looked to be most affected by it , but I guess it helped his game in the end. After the end I managed to bump into White ra and Strelok and got some cool photos with them, I was afraid they were gone after the first day, so I feel lucky. Amazing event , I had a blast
exactly my thoughts ^_^
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Wow ret <3 So good, gjgj.
GGs all around.
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On August 08 2011 04:28 ParasitJonte wrote:
Introducing: TSOHMAN'S LAW
In any long discussion (spanning at least 3 pages of posts) on teamliquid, the chance of references to Idra approach 1.
Want proof? Search TL for Idra... This thread is another sad example.
Idra,Idra,Idra,Idra,Idra
What is it that you love so much about him that you must mention him everytime, everywhere? Humans are funny.
Already called Idra's Law
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=236315¤tpage=17#340
Ret is pretty baller.
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Naniwa gets another second place. Poor guy can't win in the finals
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On August 08 2011 05:11 stren wrote:Hope you enjoyed our cheering. I am proud of the audience , the cheers during the final were mostly trolling Cormac, who said to cheer every scout, creep tumour, chronoboost etc. Managed to exchange a few words with Ret, and told him its amazing to see how much greed he can get away with, to witch he replied he tries to push it to the limit I wish Nani would show some more emotion, I guess he really doesn't wasnt to settle to anything but a win. His indifference to out chanting was amazing, that guy is a true robot Mr Bitter is a super nice guy as well. The organization could be better as the place was steaming hot all the time, and you had to wait in line if you went out, Ret seemed to looked to be most affected by it , but I guess it helped his game in the end. After the end I managed to bump into White ra and Strelok and got some cool photos with them, I was afraid they were gone after the first day, so I feel lucky. Amazing event , I had a blast
(offtopic so spoilered)
+ Show Spoiler +Thats really cool, is Strelok as nice as he seems on stream? I think Naniwa was pleased with the attention but probably felt a bit akward getting that attention instead of Ret.
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Nice! Glad to see Ret performing so incredibly well!
Haven't heard about him in a long time, but I'm relieved to hear that he is still the beast he is!
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On August 08 2011 04:28 ParasitJonte wrote:
Introducing: TSOHMAN'S LAW
In any long discussion (spanning at least 3 pages of posts) on teamliquid, the chance of references to Idra approach 1.
Want proof? Search TL for Idra... This thread is another sad example.
Idra,Idra,Idra,Idra,Idra
What is it that you love so much about him that you must mention him everytime, everywhere? Humans are funny.
Tried it, content only, all forums.
Idra: 978 total results.
Jinro: 964 total results.
Naniwa: 997 total results.
Ret: 994 total results.
etcetc
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Come on blizzard, get those finals vods up!
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On August 08 2011 06:12 Eufouria wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 05:11 stren wrote:Hope you enjoyed our cheering. I am proud of the audience , the cheers during the final were mostly trolling Cormac, who said to cheer every scout, creep tumour, chronoboost etc. Managed to exchange a few words with Ret, and told him its amazing to see how much greed he can get away with, to witch he replied he tries to push it to the limit I wish Nani would show some more emotion, I guess he really doesn't wasnt to settle to anything but a win. His indifference to out chanting was amazing, that guy is a true robot Mr Bitter is a super nice guy as well. The organization could be better as the place was steaming hot all the time, and you had to wait in line if you went out, Ret seemed to looked to be most affected by it , but I guess it helped his game in the end. After the end I managed to bump into White ra and Strelok and got some cool photos with them, I was afraid they were gone after the first day, so I feel lucky. Amazing event , I had a blast (offtopic so spoilered) + Show Spoiler +Thats really cool, is Strelok as nice as he seems on stream? I think Naniwa was pleased with the attention but probably felt a bit akward getting that attention instead of Ret.
I didn't get to talk to strelok much, but he is really fun. I was taking a 2 pics with him and for the second one he suggested we shake a fist at the camera, which was pretty fun. That guy reminds me of Roman from GTA 4
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On August 08 2011 06:13 hifriend wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 04:28 ParasitJonte wrote:
Introducing: TSOHMAN'S LAW
In any long discussion (spanning at least 3 pages of posts) on teamliquid, the chance of references to Idra approach 1.
Want proof? Search TL for Idra... This thread is another sad example.
Idra,Idra,Idra,Idra,Idra
What is it that you love so much about him that you must mention him everytime, everywhere? Humans are funny. Tried it, content only, all forums. Idra: 978 total results. Jinro: 964 total results. Naniwa: 997 total results. Ret: 994 total results. etcetc
The content search gets cut off somewhere just before 1000 total results. If you'll notice the last post in the very last category of the Idra search - the last post was written on August 4th. Which is not too long ago.
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Yup! Could mass sentry with +1 chargelots be an option? Or too weak vs queens/spines maybe.
MC has done that in a few games and one of the koreans in GSTL did it also. its kinda rough because zealots are so cost ineffecient against roaches. i don't think its worked in any of the games where i've seen it
i think the 7 gate blink stalker + observer is probably still the strongest pvz timing push to punish an early third
time for sair/dt
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IdrA's law? hahaha so true!
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Does anyone know where to find that little cinematic they played before the the matches? It starts with Kerrigan looking up. I'm pretty sure it's just made of pieces of the trailers for the game but put together in a different way. Regardless, it was incredibly sick and I want to show my friends :D
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On August 08 2011 06:41 adrift wrote:Show nested quote +Yup! Could mass sentry with +1 chargelots be an option? Or too weak vs queens/spines maybe.
MC has done that in a few games and one of the koreans in GSTL did it also. its kinda rough because zealots are so cost ineffecient against roaches. i don't think its worked in any of the games where i've seen it i think the 7 gate blink stalker + observer is probably still the strongest pvz timing push to punish an early third time for sair/dt
Nani did it last game if i remember well
and it didn't work at all
mmm need to watch the replay of the last game...
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On August 08 2011 06:50 Kaladin wrote:
Does anyone know where to find that little cinematic they played before the the matches? It starts with Kerrigan looking up. I'm pretty sure it's just made of pieces of the trailers for the game but put together in a different way. Regardless, it was incredibly sick and I want to show my friends :D
I'm pretty sure its from the cinematic that shows the fall of Tarsonis. I don't know what its called but you can watch it in game.
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On August 08 2011 06:29 TranceStorm wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 06:13 hifriend wrote:On August 08 2011 04:28 ParasitJonte wrote:
Introducing: TSOHMAN'S LAW
In any long discussion (spanning at least 3 pages of posts) on teamliquid, the chance of references to Idra approach 1.
Want proof? Search TL for Idra... This thread is another sad example.
Idra,Idra,Idra,Idra,Idra
What is it that you love so much about him that you must mention him everytime, everywhere? Humans are funny. Tried it, content only, all forums. Idra: 978 total results. Jinro: 964 total results. Naniwa: 997 total results. Ret: 994 total results. etcetc The content search gets cut off somewhere just before 1000 total results. If you'll notice the last post in the very last category of the Idra search - the last post was written on August 4th. Which is not too long ago.
idra site:teamliquid.net = 336k
naniwa site:teamliquid.net = 353k
thorzain site:teamliquid.net = 298k
boxer site:teamliquid.net = 410k :D
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EPT
