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On August 08 2011 09:28 Dikkbutt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 08:59 FairForever wrote:
As much as I like Ret, I still don't understand how you can place him ahead of Idra. The only argument I see (and it's a flimsy one) is that Ret beat Naniwa twice, who was able to down Idra. But other than that... Idra has finished above Ret regularly everywhere (including the last two MLGs, most notably), and is doing better than Ret so far in the IPL.
Ret and Idra finished at the same spot in MLG anaheim.
Idra finished 9th while ret finished 11th
For my 2 cents i think sen is the best foreign zerg at the moment, he is the only one that is able to reliably take games off of Koreans, heck he almost beat MC ( and would of had he not made 20 broodlords xp)
I put idra,dimaga and now ret with his strong showing recently in the same group under sen as being top zergs but non of them clearly pulling ahead like sen has IMO
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The best non-korean Z's at the moment IMO are Ret, Dimaga, Sen, and Idra. I can't rank these four but they are the best IMO.
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People seem to forget about Morrow.
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On August 08 2011 09:34 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 09:28 Talin wrote:On August 08 2011 08:59 FairForever wrote:
But other than that... Idra has finished above Ret regularly everywhere (including the last two MLGs, most notably), and is doing better than Ret so far in the IPL. I can't see how are those two actual arguments though. Anaheim scenario: Idra has by far the easiest group and gets knocked out by Nani. Ret has a much harder group and gets knocked out by Ganzi. How is that an argument in favor of Idra? IPL2 scenario: Idra played Drewbie, Minigun and moonan to get where he is. Ret played Select in the first round and Socke in the LB (and will play Fenix tonight). Again, how is Idra doing better here? His side of the bracket is basically a free ride for a player of his (alleged) level. Don't bring up bare results without mentioning the circumstances. Let me finish this off with: Ret - 2 major LAN titles in 2011. Sen - 0 Idra - 1 (only in 2010) Dimaga - 1 I'm not going to bother arguing with the guy who thinks that employers are okay to withhold wages from employees who have already worked that time...
cute ad hominem
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Don't forget about Stephano who managed to take out Sen at Assembly Summer and has climbed up to #3 on the ELO.
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Nono guys, you are all wrong. The standings as for today look like these:
1. SEn. Undoubtedly the best "foreign" (I'm not sure if he counts as a foreign plyaer since he practices almost exclusively with koreans). As mentioned before - basically the only foreigner to consistently take games from S-class koreans (MC, July)
2. ret - he was looking BEASTLY at EBI. Completely crushed every terran he faced, and suprisingly crushed Naniwa in a way nobody expected, it wasn't even close. We don't how good his zvz is, I can only assume he improved this match up as well.
3. Dimaga - 1st place at Assembly. Very good showing but he was close to losing in 2 matches (vs Stephano and Mana)
4. Stephano! - this kid is sick. He beat SEn 2-1 in a very close series, destroyed one of the best european terrans Brat_ok and just barely lost to Dimaga. He's so underrated and hasn't had yet an exposure he deserves.
5. Idra - he's no the sick motivated guy that is mass practicing in Korea and consistently places high in GSLs anymore. Actually he lost his top-notch foreigner status a while ago, it seems like living in America doesn't really encourage players to keep on improving.
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There's actually no arguing that Sen is the best foreigner Zerg.
Under him I think Ret and Dimaga are the strongest at this moment.
Idra is never far off though, and Morrow is edging his way into the conversation.
A step below them, beasts like Nerchio and Stephano are gathering steam and becoming more elite players all the time.
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Congrats to Ret and TeamLiquid! As for the top foreign Zerg..I'd have to say Ret/Dimaga/Idra..one of those 3!
edit: If you consider SEn a foreigner than no doubt its SEn then the three I listed.
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On August 08 2011 10:00 rafaliusz wrote:
Nono guys, you are all wrong. The standings as for today look like these:
1. SEn. Undoubtedly the best "foreign" (I'm not sure if he counts as a foreign plyaer since he practices almost exclusively with koreans). As mentioned before - basically the only foreigner to consistently take games from S-class koreans (MC, July)
2. ret - he was looking BEASTLY at EBI. Completely crushed every terran he faced, and suprisingly crushed Naniwa in a way nobody expected, it wasn't even close. We don't how good his zvz is, I can only assume he improved this match up as well.
3. Dimaga - 1st place at Assembly. Very good showing but he was close to losing in 2 matches (vs Stephano and Mana)
4. Stephano! - this kid is sick. He beat SEn 2-1 in a very close series, destroyed one of the best european terrans Brat_ok and just barely lost to Dimaga. He's so underrated and hasn't had yet an exposure he deserves.
5. Idra - he's no the sick motivated guy that is mass practicing in Korea and consistently places high in GSLs anymore. Actually he lost his top-notch foreigner status a while ago, it seems like living in America doesn't really encourage players to keep on improving.
Ret's ZvZ is really good
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lol I'm laughing my ass off right now at that guy who was like Ret sucks haha
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Uh. Can anyone get the metapolis thorzain ret replay working? I cant get it to work on the NA server. I think that maybe the EU MLGmetapolis is different from the NA one and its causing it not to dl and play.
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Talin won't drop it loooool.
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On August 08 2011 05:11 Klive5ive wrote:
IdrA and Ret are probably equal overall but have different attributes.
I think Ret's approach to the game and his potential ability is probably higher than IdrAs. He has incredible macro too but probably better micro than IdrA.
IdrA has a determination that can't be matched by Ret though. He grinds game, he masters strategies and is able to play games out in such a calculated manner. His attention to detail in the construction of his builds is second to none. If there's an advantage to be gained somewhere IdrA will find it.
Leaving games early is hardly justification for determination. Also, Idra has been practicing much less ever since going back to NA.
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Based on their last 15 tournament results, here are the top foreign Zergs' rankings:
1. Stephano (6 gold, 0 silver, 4 bronze, 5 non-placements)
2. Sen (3 gold, 3 silver, 2 bronze, 7 non-placements)
3(tie). Dimaga (4 gold, 1 silver, 0 bronze, 10 non-placements)
3(tie). Nerchio (4 gold, 1 silver, 0 bronze, 10 non-placements)
5. Morrow (2 gold, 2 silver, 0 bronze, 11 non-placements)
6. Idra (1 gold, 2 silver, 0 bronze, 12 non-placements)
7. Ret (2 gold, 0 silver, 0 bronze, 13 non-placements)
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On August 08 2011 12:36 Devolved wrote:
Based on their last 15 tournament results, here are the top foreign Zergs' rankings:
1. Stephano (6 gold, 0 silver, 4 bronze, 5 non-placements)
2. Sen (3 gold, 3 silver, 2 bronze, 7 non-placements)
3(tie). Dimaga (4 gold, 1 silver, 0 bronze, 10 non-placements)
3(tie). Nerchio (4 gold, 1 silver, 0 bronze, 10 non-placements)
5. Morrow (2 gold, 2 silver, 0 bronze, 11 non-placements)
6. Idra (1 gold, 2 silver, 0 bronze, 12 non-placements)
7. Ret (2 gold, 0 silver, 0 bronze, 13 non-placements)
LAN tournament wins are worth a ton more than online cups are
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On August 08 2011 11:24 T0fuuu wrote:
Uh. Can anyone get the metapolis thorzain ret replay working? I cant get it to work on the NA server. I think that maybe the EU MLGmetapolis is different from the NA one and its causing it not to dl and play.
MLG didnt update its map pool on EU server.
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In terms of just pure raw talent, my foreign zerg rankings (warning not based on results);
1. Sen
2. Nerchio
3. Morrow/Idra tied...
4. Stephano
5. ret
6. dimaga
I'll probably receive a ton of flack for my rankings but frankly I don't care 
I think nerchio is a bit unrefined and looked pretty nervous on stage which is logical being his first LAN event, I think he's only going to get better.
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On August 08 2011 13:47 Hierarch wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 12:36 Devolved wrote:
Based on their last 15 tournament results, here are the top foreign Zergs' rankings:
1. Stephano (6 gold, 0 silver, 4 bronze, 5 non-placements)
2. Sen (3 gold, 3 silver, 2 bronze, 7 non-placements)
3(tie). Dimaga (4 gold, 1 silver, 0 bronze, 10 non-placements)
3(tie). Nerchio (4 gold, 1 silver, 0 bronze, 10 non-placements)
5. Morrow (2 gold, 2 silver, 0 bronze, 11 non-placements)
6. Idra (1 gold, 2 silver, 0 bronze, 12 non-placements)
7. Ret (2 gold, 0 silver, 0 bronze, 13 non-placements) LAN tournament wins are worth a ton more than online cups are
If you think nerves and stage fright should be accounted for yes. Otherwise I don't see why.
Personally, I don't give a rats ass whether a tournament is online or LAN. The only thing LAN tournaments got over online tournaments are fan interaction and eSports building. Imoho.
Anyway, if player A is superior to player B when allowed to play in a comfortable environment but breaks down in front of a crowd while player B can keep his cool, does that make player B the better player?
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On August 08 2011 11:24 T0fuuu wrote:
Uh. Can anyone get the metapolis thorzain ret replay working? I cant get it to work on the NA server. I think that maybe the EU MLGmetapolis is different from the NA one and its causing it not to dl and play.
This might be actually true, rotti and bitter were wondering why there is no supply depot bottom of the ramp, maybe eu has outdated version. They should play on ESL versions.
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There is no Vod for the Thorzain vs. Naniwa series, right? 
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EPT
