|
We will be moderating harshly in this thread. Think twice before you post. Things we are watching for: image macros, balance whining, "eagles", player bashing etc. We encourage civil and reasoned critique of our moderation - please post it in the website feedback forum.
Please don't complain about MLG stream quality or MLG itself. They work very hard to provide you with an enjoyable service.
Enough with the racism discussions, this is a LR Thread. Cut it out.
-- updated 7:55 KST |
On June 07 2011 20:40 Aristodemus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 20:25 ChickenLips wrote:On June 07 2011 19:35 Aristodemus wrote:On June 07 2011 17:10 ChickenLips wrote:On June 07 2011 15:15 andrewlt wrote:
It's easier to appreciate the Korean players when watching replays instead of vods. I've watched a few and the Korean player is usually at around 250 apm while the foreigner is at 170. You could sometimes see the screen fly back and forth between areas while a fight is going on. Not Jaedong-esque apm, but still enough that you could say the Koreans are going to win standard games most of the time. They were also floating less minerals and gas more often than not. I really think APM is hugely overrated. All the top pros spam. Some more than others. Watch replays of merz, that guy constantly spams 400 APM and gets his hand handed to him by SjoW with his 80 APM all the time. But (!) the Koreans are much better at multi tasking and macro. You can see MMA macro right when the banelings roll in during his big battle. I've never seen a foreigner do something like that. He really is correct when he says the difference is that Koreans view gaming as their job and that's why they are so good. They live in progaming houses and know how to train from their BW days. It's quite sad, but with the way the foreigner scene is developping at the moment, they will never be able to out-perform the Korean scene. They might be able to throw more money at the game, but unless something drastic changes: 'Koreans own white dudes' On the korean > foreigner issue we will see at dreamhack because better foreigners and better koreans are going. If they own it up like they did at MLG then I will agree. It's quite unfair for the KRs, only MC and MKP are top KR players. Meanwhile you have the best of the best from NA and EU, naama whitera idra kas nani dimaga _strelok_ happy dimaga thorzain hasu and sjow. The _only_ well-performing foreigner that is missing is Nerchio and he's still pretty unknown. On the other hand there's a vast amount of the best KRs missing, like mvp mma alicia polt top sc _bomber_ losira and ganzi. If you assemble an all-stars team from both teams, there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that the KRs would win. Regardless from that I predict that MC will be top2 and MKP top 4. I really don't agree with inviting inca anypro FD and nada, the first 2 aren't good and the second 2 don't practice enough to make a significant impact I think they have been naming almost on a team by team basis, I hope Nestea and MVP will be named in the next group. Pretty sure Nerchio will be in there too. Seems weird you included Naama in that list though lol.
Naama hasn't really been in the spotlight be he really has a solid TvT + TvZ, albeit a bit predictable.
|
Naama is usually a lot of fun to watch, after his games against Mana a while back I've tried to follow his play.
|
On June 07 2011 19:35 Aristodemus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 17:10 ChickenLips wrote:On June 07 2011 15:15 andrewlt wrote:
It's easier to appreciate the Korean players when watching replays instead of vods. I've watched a few and the Korean player is usually at around 250 apm while the foreigner is at 170. You could sometimes see the screen fly back and forth between areas while a fight is going on. Not Jaedong-esque apm, but still enough that you could say the Koreans are going to win standard games most of the time. They were also floating less minerals and gas more often than not. I really think APM is hugely overrated. All the top pros spam. Some more than others. Watch replays of merz, that guy constantly spams 400 APM and gets his hand handed to him by SjoW with his 80 APM all the time. But (!) the Koreans are much better at multi tasking and macro. You can see MMA macro right when the banelings roll in during his big battle. I've never seen a foreigner do something like that. He really is correct when he says the difference is that Koreans view gaming as their job and that's why they are so good. They live in progaming houses and know how to train from their BW days. It's quite sad, but with the way the foreigner scene is developping at the moment, they will never be able to out-perform the Korean scene. They might be able to throw more money at the game, but unless something drastic changes: 'Koreans own white dudes' On the korean > foreigner issue we will see at dreamhack because better foreigners and better koreans are going. If they own it up like they did at MLG then I will agree.
Lol you would say you're waiting till Dreamhack since the korean players this time are hardly top tier aside from MKP and MC. Fruitdealer hasn't played well at all ever since winning the first GSL, AnyPro is in the middle range of Code S players and Inca, well look at the GSL finals. Nada is also very shaky as well. I don't know how the Koreans going are in any way "better" than the ones who just went. I would take a team of MC, Losira, MMA and Moon any day over a team of Inca, Nada, Fruitdealer and MKP/AnyPro.
But then, of course you would want to use Dreamhack as the tournament to truly judge the Korean skill gap, instead of the tournament that JUST happened where top Europeans like Naniwa and the constantly championed Thorzain lost. Naniwa lost PRETTY DAMN convincingly against Losira too, infact Losira STOMPED Naniwa pretty hard. But of course, MLG doesn't matter right?
There's nothing wrong with supporting foreigners, but it just looks downright stubborn and borderline ignorant to still try and deny the fact the foreigners at MLG got owned pretty hard.
|
Well MLG just saved a few bucks not having to send anyone to GSL lol.
TOP 3 in MLG
5 Koreans in TOP 16, 4 more coming for Aneihiem
MLG will be GSL in NA nice, the creep is spreading. EU and NA better step their game up
|
On June 08 2011 00:19 Justanx wrote:
Well MLG just saved a few bucks not having to send anyone to GSL lol.
TOP 3 in MLG
5 Koreans in TOP 16, 4 more coming for Aneihiem
MLG will be GSL in NA nice, the creep is spreading. EU and NA better step their game up
top3 non koreans get code a invite
if there now is a code s spot or not, i dont know
|
If all of the top 16 show up for anaheim... these 4 will be in a group:
IdrA, LosirA, MC and Moonan
ROFL that's going to be epic.
|
On June 08 2011 02:19 DoomsVille wrote:
If all of the top 16 show up for anaheim... these 4 will be in a group:
IdrA, LosirA, MC and Moonan
ROFL that's going to be epic.
Should be entertaining  Personally can't wait for it seeing as how amazing this MLG was
|
On June 07 2011 22:09 ct2299 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 19:35 Aristodemus wrote:On June 07 2011 17:10 ChickenLips wrote:On June 07 2011 15:15 andrewlt wrote:
It's easier to appreciate the Korean players when watching replays instead of vods. I've watched a few and the Korean player is usually at around 250 apm while the foreigner is at 170. You could sometimes see the screen fly back and forth between areas while a fight is going on. Not Jaedong-esque apm, but still enough that you could say the Koreans are going to win standard games most of the time. They were also floating less minerals and gas more often than not. I really think APM is hugely overrated. All the top pros spam. Some more than others. Watch replays of merz, that guy constantly spams 400 APM and gets his hand handed to him by SjoW with his 80 APM all the time. But (!) the Koreans are much better at multi tasking and macro. You can see MMA macro right when the banelings roll in during his big battle. I've never seen a foreigner do something like that. He really is correct when he says the difference is that Koreans view gaming as their job and that's why they are so good. They live in progaming houses and know how to train from their BW days. It's quite sad, but with the way the foreigner scene is developping at the moment, they will never be able to out-perform the Korean scene. They might be able to throw more money at the game, but unless something drastic changes: 'Koreans own white dudes' On the korean > foreigner issue we will see at dreamhack because better foreigners and better koreans are going. If they own it up like they did at MLG then I will agree. But then, of course you would want to use Dreamhack as the tournament to truly judge the Korean skill gap, instead of the tournament that JUST happened where top Europeans like Naniwa and the constantly championed Thorzain lost. Naniwa lost PRETTY DAMN convincingly against Losira too, infact Losira STOMPED Naniwa pretty hard. But of course, MLG doesn't matter right? There's nothing wrong with supporting foreigners, but it just looks downright stubborn and borderline ignorant to still try and deny the fact the foreigners at MLG got owned pretty hard.
What about ThorZaIN then? He's 5-6 vs MC if I'm not mistaken, yet you only bring up Naniwa getting owned rather than ThorZaIN pretty much play equally as good. I think ThorZaIN is pretty much equal to koreans atm.
|
MMA said it in an interview that Thorzain was probably the only one who could do well in GSL.
|
On June 07 2011 22:09 ct2299 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 19:35 Aristodemus wrote:On June 07 2011 17:10 ChickenLips wrote:On June 07 2011 15:15 andrewlt wrote:
It's easier to appreciate the Korean players when watching replays instead of vods. I've watched a few and the Korean player is usually at around 250 apm while the foreigner is at 170. You could sometimes see the screen fly back and forth between areas while a fight is going on. Not Jaedong-esque apm, but still enough that you could say the Koreans are going to win standard games most of the time. They were also floating less minerals and gas more often than not. I really think APM is hugely overrated. All the top pros spam. Some more than others. Watch replays of merz, that guy constantly spams 400 APM and gets his hand handed to him by SjoW with his 80 APM all the time. But (!) the Koreans are much better at multi tasking and macro. You can see MMA macro right when the banelings roll in during his big battle. I've never seen a foreigner do something like that. He really is correct when he says the difference is that Koreans view gaming as their job and that's why they are so good. They live in progaming houses and know how to train from their BW days. It's quite sad, but with the way the foreigner scene is developping at the moment, they will never be able to out-perform the Korean scene. They might be able to throw more money at the game, but unless something drastic changes: 'Koreans own white dudes' On the korean > foreigner issue we will see at dreamhack because better foreigners and better koreans are going. If they own it up like they did at MLG then I will agree. Lol you would say you're waiting till Dreamhack since the korean players this time are hardly top tier aside from MKP and MC. Fruitdealer hasn't played well at all ever since winning the first GSL, AnyPro is in the middle range of Code S players and Inca, well look at the GSL finals. Nada is also very shaky as well. I don't know how the Koreans going are in any way "better" than the ones who just went. I would take a team of MC, Losira, MMA and Moon any day over a team of Inca, Nada, Fruitdealer and MKP/AnyPro. But then, of course you would want to use Dreamhack as the tournament to truly judge the Korean skill gap, instead of the tournament that JUST happened where top Europeans like Naniwa and the constantly championed Thorzain lost. Naniwa lost PRETTY DAMN convincingly against Losira too, infact Losira STOMPED Naniwa pretty hard. But of course, MLG doesn't matter right? There's nothing wrong with supporting foreigners, but it just looks downright stubborn and borderline ignorant to still try and deny the fact the foreigners at MLG got owned pretty hard.
If Koreans dominate Dreamhack as well then we can all agree on Koreans being dominant at the moment.
If foreigners win then we can stop argueing that Koreans are in a whole different division than the rest of the world.
I really hope that europeans and americans will do good in the tournament and show the Korean scene that we are good enough to compete with them.
|
On June 08 2011 03:36 Batch wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 22:09 ct2299 wrote:On June 07 2011 19:35 Aristodemus wrote:On June 07 2011 17:10 ChickenLips wrote:On June 07 2011 15:15 andrewlt wrote:
It's easier to appreciate the Korean players when watching replays instead of vods. I've watched a few and the Korean player is usually at around 250 apm while the foreigner is at 170. You could sometimes see the screen fly back and forth between areas while a fight is going on. Not Jaedong-esque apm, but still enough that you could say the Koreans are going to win standard games most of the time. They were also floating less minerals and gas more often than not. I really think APM is hugely overrated. All the top pros spam. Some more than others. Watch replays of merz, that guy constantly spams 400 APM and gets his hand handed to him by SjoW with his 80 APM all the time. But (!) the Koreans are much better at multi tasking and macro. You can see MMA macro right when the banelings roll in during his big battle. I've never seen a foreigner do something like that. He really is correct when he says the difference is that Koreans view gaming as their job and that's why they are so good. They live in progaming houses and know how to train from their BW days. It's quite sad, but with the way the foreigner scene is developping at the moment, they will never be able to out-perform the Korean scene. They might be able to throw more money at the game, but unless something drastic changes: 'Koreans own white dudes' On the korean > foreigner issue we will see at dreamhack because better foreigners and better koreans are going. If they own it up like they did at MLG then I will agree. Lol you would say you're waiting till Dreamhack since the korean players this time are hardly top tier aside from MKP and MC. Fruitdealer hasn't played well at all ever since winning the first GSL, AnyPro is in the middle range of Code S players and Inca, well look at the GSL finals. Nada is also very shaky as well. I don't know how the Koreans going are in any way "better" than the ones who just went. I would take a team of MC, Losira, MMA and Moon any day over a team of Inca, Nada, Fruitdealer and MKP/AnyPro. But then, of course you would want to use Dreamhack as the tournament to truly judge the Korean skill gap, instead of the tournament that JUST happened where top Europeans like Naniwa and the constantly championed Thorzain lost. Naniwa lost PRETTY DAMN convincingly against Losira too, infact Losira STOMPED Naniwa pretty hard. But of course, MLG doesn't matter right? There's nothing wrong with supporting foreigners, but it just looks downright stubborn and borderline ignorant to still try and deny the fact the foreigners at MLG got owned pretty hard. If Koreans dominate Dreamhack as well then we can all agree on Koreans being dominant at the moment. If foreigners win then we can stop argueing that Koreans are in a whole different division than the rest of the world. I really hope that europeans and americans will do good in the tournament and show the Korean scene that we are good enough to compete with them.
Koreans are more dominant as of now. If foreigners win in dreamhack, then we can agree it's more even.
|
On June 07 2011 22:09 ct2299 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 19:35 Aristodemus wrote:On June 07 2011 17:10 ChickenLips wrote:On June 07 2011 15:15 andrewlt wrote:
It's easier to appreciate the Korean players when watching replays instead of vods. I've watched a few and the Korean player is usually at around 250 apm while the foreigner is at 170. You could sometimes see the screen fly back and forth between areas while a fight is going on. Not Jaedong-esque apm, but still enough that you could say the Koreans are going to win standard games most of the time. They were also floating less minerals and gas more often than not. I really think APM is hugely overrated. All the top pros spam. Some more than others. Watch replays of merz, that guy constantly spams 400 APM and gets his hand handed to him by SjoW with his 80 APM all the time. But (!) the Koreans are much better at multi tasking and macro. You can see MMA macro right when the banelings roll in during his big battle. I've never seen a foreigner do something like that. He really is correct when he says the difference is that Koreans view gaming as their job and that's why they are so good. They live in progaming houses and know how to train from their BW days. It's quite sad, but with the way the foreigner scene is developping at the moment, they will never be able to out-perform the Korean scene. They might be able to throw more money at the game, but unless something drastic changes: 'Koreans own white dudes' On the korean > foreigner issue we will see at dreamhack because better foreigners and better koreans are going. If they own it up like they did at MLG then I will agree. Lol you would say you're waiting till Dreamhack since the korean players this time are hardly top tier aside from MKP and MC. Fruitdealer hasn't played well at all ever since winning the first GSL, AnyPro is in the middle range of Code S players and Inca, well look at the GSL finals. Nada is also very shaky as well. I don't know how the Koreans going are in any way "better" than the ones who just went. I would take a team of MC, Losira, MMA and Moon any day over a team of Inca, Nada, Fruitdealer and MKP/AnyPro. But then, of course you would want to use Dreamhack as the tournament to truly judge the Korean skill gap, instead of the tournament that JUST happened where top Europeans like Naniwa and the constantly championed Thorzain lost. Naniwa lost PRETTY DAMN convincingly against Losira too, infact Losira STOMPED Naniwa pretty hard. But of course, MLG doesn't matter right? There's nothing wrong with supporting foreigners, but it just looks downright stubborn and borderline ignorant to still try and deny the fact the foreigners at MLG got owned pretty hard.
All the koreans are not named yet, and although Nani and Thorzain are two of the best foreigners alot more of the top foreigners are in DH on an even playing field. Players such as Sen, Dimaga, Kas, Strelok, White-ra, Hasu. MKP, Nada, Inca, Fruitdealer are all GSL finalists too. More people = better gauge.
|
On June 08 2011 03:44 Aristodemus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 22:09 ct2299 wrote:On June 07 2011 19:35 Aristodemus wrote:On June 07 2011 17:10 ChickenLips wrote:On June 07 2011 15:15 andrewlt wrote:
It's easier to appreciate the Korean players when watching replays instead of vods. I've watched a few and the Korean player is usually at around 250 apm while the foreigner is at 170. You could sometimes see the screen fly back and forth between areas while a fight is going on. Not Jaedong-esque apm, but still enough that you could say the Koreans are going to win standard games most of the time. They were also floating less minerals and gas more often than not. I really think APM is hugely overrated. All the top pros spam. Some more than others. Watch replays of merz, that guy constantly spams 400 APM and gets his hand handed to him by SjoW with his 80 APM all the time. But (!) the Koreans are much better at multi tasking and macro. You can see MMA macro right when the banelings roll in during his big battle. I've never seen a foreigner do something like that. He really is correct when he says the difference is that Koreans view gaming as their job and that's why they are so good. They live in progaming houses and know how to train from their BW days. It's quite sad, but with the way the foreigner scene is developping at the moment, they will never be able to out-perform the Korean scene. They might be able to throw more money at the game, but unless something drastic changes: 'Koreans own white dudes' On the korean > foreigner issue we will see at dreamhack because better foreigners and better koreans are going. If they own it up like they did at MLG then I will agree. Lol you would say you're waiting till Dreamhack since the korean players this time are hardly top tier aside from MKP and MC. Fruitdealer hasn't played well at all ever since winning the first GSL, AnyPro is in the middle range of Code S players and Inca, well look at the GSL finals. Nada is also very shaky as well. I don't know how the Koreans going are in any way "better" than the ones who just went. I would take a team of MC, Losira, MMA and Moon any day over a team of Inca, Nada, Fruitdealer and MKP/AnyPro. But then, of course you would want to use Dreamhack as the tournament to truly judge the Korean skill gap, instead of the tournament that JUST happened where top Europeans like Naniwa and the constantly championed Thorzain lost. Naniwa lost PRETTY DAMN convincingly against Losira too, infact Losira STOMPED Naniwa pretty hard. But of course, MLG doesn't matter right? There's nothing wrong with supporting foreigners, but it just looks downright stubborn and borderline ignorant to still try and deny the fact the foreigners at MLG got owned pretty hard. All the koreans are not named yet, and although Nani and Thorzain are two of the best foreigners alot more of the top foreigners are in DH on an even playing field. Players such as Sen, Dimaga, Kas, Strelok, White-ra, Hasu. MKP, Nada, Inca, Fruitdealer are all GSL finalists too. More people = better gauge.
Right. And no doubt that those are all the best foreigners in the scene right now, and the only one missing from that is IdrA. MLG showed how weak N. Americans are at SC2 right now.
I agree more people = better gauge. But when the foreigners going to Dreamhack are pretty much the only foreign hopes left and are their best best players, I can't say with the same agreement that Inca, AnyPro, Nada and Fruitdealer count as the best players Korea has to offer. Like I said earlier, I'd choose MMA, Losira, Nestea and MVP over Inca, AnyPro, Nada and Fruitdealer as the "top Koreans".
To those saying Fruitdealer is "top caliber because he won GSL Season 1". That's bullshit, and you guys know it. Look how far Rainbow has fallen since GSL S1. Fruitdealer is good player by all means, and an interesting player to watch too, but I don't count him as one of the top tier Korean players anymore, same goes with Nada and especially Inca, after his pathetic performance in the GSL finals.
|
NaNiwa, ThorZain, and Fenix to korea. calling now
|
I am gonna index the awesomeness that is this thread....
|
On June 08 2011 04:10 ct2299 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 03:44 Aristodemus wrote:On June 07 2011 22:09 ct2299 wrote:On June 07 2011 19:35 Aristodemus wrote:On June 07 2011 17:10 ChickenLips wrote:On June 07 2011 15:15 andrewlt wrote:
It's easier to appreciate the Korean players when watching replays instead of vods. I've watched a few and the Korean player is usually at around 250 apm while the foreigner is at 170. You could sometimes see the screen fly back and forth between areas while a fight is going on. Not Jaedong-esque apm, but still enough that you could say the Koreans are going to win standard games most of the time. They were also floating less minerals and gas more often than not. I really think APM is hugely overrated. All the top pros spam. Some more than others. Watch replays of merz, that guy constantly spams 400 APM and gets his hand handed to him by SjoW with his 80 APM all the time. But (!) the Koreans are much better at multi tasking and macro. You can see MMA macro right when the banelings roll in during his big battle. I've never seen a foreigner do something like that. He really is correct when he says the difference is that Koreans view gaming as their job and that's why they are so good. They live in progaming houses and know how to train from their BW days. It's quite sad, but with the way the foreigner scene is developping at the moment, they will never be able to out-perform the Korean scene. They might be able to throw more money at the game, but unless something drastic changes: 'Koreans own white dudes' On the korean > foreigner issue we will see at dreamhack because better foreigners and better koreans are going. If they own it up like they did at MLG then I will agree. Lol you would say you're waiting till Dreamhack since the korean players this time are hardly top tier aside from MKP and MC. Fruitdealer hasn't played well at all ever since winning the first GSL, AnyPro is in the middle range of Code S players and Inca, well look at the GSL finals. Nada is also very shaky as well. I don't know how the Koreans going are in any way "better" than the ones who just went. I would take a team of MC, Losira, MMA and Moon any day over a team of Inca, Nada, Fruitdealer and MKP/AnyPro. But then, of course you would want to use Dreamhack as the tournament to truly judge the Korean skill gap, instead of the tournament that JUST happened where top Europeans like Naniwa and the constantly championed Thorzain lost. Naniwa lost PRETTY DAMN convincingly against Losira too, infact Losira STOMPED Naniwa pretty hard. But of course, MLG doesn't matter right? There's nothing wrong with supporting foreigners, but it just looks downright stubborn and borderline ignorant to still try and deny the fact the foreigners at MLG got owned pretty hard. All the koreans are not named yet, and although Nani and Thorzain are two of the best foreigners alot more of the top foreigners are in DH on an even playing field. Players such as Sen, Dimaga, Kas, Strelok, White-ra, Hasu. MKP, Nada, Inca, Fruitdealer are all GSL finalists too. More people = better gauge. Right. And no doubt that those are all the best foreigners in the scene right now, and the only one missing from that is IdrA. MLG showed how weak N. Americans are at SC2 right now. I agree more people = better gauge. But when the foreigners going to Dreamhack are pretty much the only foreign hopes left and are their best best players, I can't say with the same agreement that Inca, AnyPro, Nada and Fruitdealer count as the best players Korea has to offer. Like I said earlier, I'd choose MMA, Losira, Nestea and MVP over Inca, AnyPro, Nada and Fruitdealer as the "top Koreans". To those saying Fruitdealer is "top caliber because he won GSL Season 1". That's bullshit, and you guys know it. Look how far Rainbow has fallen since GSL S1. Fruitdealer is good player by all means, and an interesting player to watch too, but I don't count him as one of the top tier Korean players anymore, same goes with Nada and especially Inca, after his pathetic performance in the GSL finals.
zzzzz re. Nada owns everyone at MLG 'cept for maybe MC. NaDa will rape MMA jus w8 and see. His TvT is a thing of beauty.
|
On June 08 2011 04:52 SushilS wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 04:10 ct2299 wrote:On June 08 2011 03:44 Aristodemus wrote:On June 07 2011 22:09 ct2299 wrote:On June 07 2011 19:35 Aristodemus wrote:On June 07 2011 17:10 ChickenLips wrote:On June 07 2011 15:15 andrewlt wrote:
It's easier to appreciate the Korean players when watching replays instead of vods. I've watched a few and the Korean player is usually at around 250 apm while the foreigner is at 170. You could sometimes see the screen fly back and forth between areas while a fight is going on. Not Jaedong-esque apm, but still enough that you could say the Koreans are going to win standard games most of the time. They were also floating less minerals and gas more often than not. I really think APM is hugely overrated. All the top pros spam. Some more than others. Watch replays of merz, that guy constantly spams 400 APM and gets his hand handed to him by SjoW with his 80 APM all the time. But (!) the Koreans are much better at multi tasking and macro. You can see MMA macro right when the banelings roll in during his big battle. I've never seen a foreigner do something like that. He really is correct when he says the difference is that Koreans view gaming as their job and that's why they are so good. They live in progaming houses and know how to train from their BW days. It's quite sad, but with the way the foreigner scene is developping at the moment, they will never be able to out-perform the Korean scene. They might be able to throw more money at the game, but unless something drastic changes: 'Koreans own white dudes' On the korean > foreigner issue we will see at dreamhack because better foreigners and better koreans are going. If they own it up like they did at MLG then I will agree. Lol you would say you're waiting till Dreamhack since the korean players this time are hardly top tier aside from MKP and MC. Fruitdealer hasn't played well at all ever since winning the first GSL, AnyPro is in the middle range of Code S players and Inca, well look at the GSL finals. Nada is also very shaky as well. I don't know how the Koreans going are in any way "better" than the ones who just went. I would take a team of MC, Losira, MMA and Moon any day over a team of Inca, Nada, Fruitdealer and MKP/AnyPro. But then, of course you would want to use Dreamhack as the tournament to truly judge the Korean skill gap, instead of the tournament that JUST happened where top Europeans like Naniwa and the constantly championed Thorzain lost. Naniwa lost PRETTY DAMN convincingly against Losira too, infact Losira STOMPED Naniwa pretty hard. But of course, MLG doesn't matter right? There's nothing wrong with supporting foreigners, but it just looks downright stubborn and borderline ignorant to still try and deny the fact the foreigners at MLG got owned pretty hard. All the koreans are not named yet, and although Nani and Thorzain are two of the best foreigners alot more of the top foreigners are in DH on an even playing field. Players such as Sen, Dimaga, Kas, Strelok, White-ra, Hasu. MKP, Nada, Inca, Fruitdealer are all GSL finalists too. More people = better gauge. Right. And no doubt that those are all the best foreigners in the scene right now, and the only one missing from that is IdrA. MLG showed how weak N. Americans are at SC2 right now. I agree more people = better gauge. But when the foreigners going to Dreamhack are pretty much the only foreign hopes left and are their best best players, I can't say with the same agreement that Inca, AnyPro, Nada and Fruitdealer count as the best players Korea has to offer. Like I said earlier, I'd choose MMA, Losira, Nestea and MVP over Inca, AnyPro, Nada and Fruitdealer as the "top Koreans". To those saying Fruitdealer is "top caliber because he won GSL Season 1". That's bullshit, and you guys know it. Look how far Rainbow has fallen since GSL S1. Fruitdealer is good player by all means, and an interesting player to watch too, but I don't count him as one of the top tier Korean players anymore, same goes with Nada and especially Inca, after his pathetic performance in the GSL finals. zzzzz re. Nada owns everyone at MLG 'cept for maybe MC. NaDa will rape MMA jus w8 and see. His TvT is a thing of beauty.
NaDa wins even though he gets supply-blocked in almost every game I've seen with him thus far. What a beast.
EDIT: I'm not even joking. Imagine how awesome he'd be if he had the time to practice.
|
On June 08 2011 04:53 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 04:52 SushilS wrote:On June 08 2011 04:10 ct2299 wrote:On June 08 2011 03:44 Aristodemus wrote:On June 07 2011 22:09 ct2299 wrote:On June 07 2011 19:35 Aristodemus wrote:On June 07 2011 17:10 ChickenLips wrote:On June 07 2011 15:15 andrewlt wrote:
It's easier to appreciate the Korean players when watching replays instead of vods. I've watched a few and the Korean player is usually at around 250 apm while the foreigner is at 170. You could sometimes see the screen fly back and forth between areas while a fight is going on. Not Jaedong-esque apm, but still enough that you could say the Koreans are going to win standard games most of the time. They were also floating less minerals and gas more often than not. I really think APM is hugely overrated. All the top pros spam. Some more than others. Watch replays of merz, that guy constantly spams 400 APM and gets his hand handed to him by SjoW with his 80 APM all the time. But (!) the Koreans are much better at multi tasking and macro. You can see MMA macro right when the banelings roll in during his big battle. I've never seen a foreigner do something like that. He really is correct when he says the difference is that Koreans view gaming as their job and that's why they are so good. They live in progaming houses and know how to train from their BW days. It's quite sad, but with the way the foreigner scene is developping at the moment, they will never be able to out-perform the Korean scene. They might be able to throw more money at the game, but unless something drastic changes: 'Koreans own white dudes' On the korean > foreigner issue we will see at dreamhack because better foreigners and better koreans are going. If they own it up like they did at MLG then I will agree. Lol you would say you're waiting till Dreamhack since the korean players this time are hardly top tier aside from MKP and MC. Fruitdealer hasn't played well at all ever since winning the first GSL, AnyPro is in the middle range of Code S players and Inca, well look at the GSL finals. Nada is also very shaky as well. I don't know how the Koreans going are in any way "better" than the ones who just went. I would take a team of MC, Losira, MMA and Moon any day over a team of Inca, Nada, Fruitdealer and MKP/AnyPro. But then, of course you would want to use Dreamhack as the tournament to truly judge the Korean skill gap, instead of the tournament that JUST happened where top Europeans like Naniwa and the constantly championed Thorzain lost. Naniwa lost PRETTY DAMN convincingly against Losira too, infact Losira STOMPED Naniwa pretty hard. But of course, MLG doesn't matter right? There's nothing wrong with supporting foreigners, but it just looks downright stubborn and borderline ignorant to still try and deny the fact the foreigners at MLG got owned pretty hard. All the koreans are not named yet, and although Nani and Thorzain are two of the best foreigners alot more of the top foreigners are in DH on an even playing field. Players such as Sen, Dimaga, Kas, Strelok, White-ra, Hasu. MKP, Nada, Inca, Fruitdealer are all GSL finalists too. More people = better gauge. Right. And no doubt that those are all the best foreigners in the scene right now, and the only one missing from that is IdrA. MLG showed how weak N. Americans are at SC2 right now. I agree more people = better gauge. But when the foreigners going to Dreamhack are pretty much the only foreign hopes left and are their best best players, I can't say with the same agreement that Inca, AnyPro, Nada and Fruitdealer count as the best players Korea has to offer. Like I said earlier, I'd choose MMA, Losira, Nestea and MVP over Inca, AnyPro, Nada and Fruitdealer as the "top Koreans". To those saying Fruitdealer is "top caliber because he won GSL Season 1". That's bullshit, and you guys know it. Look how far Rainbow has fallen since GSL S1. Fruitdealer is good player by all means, and an interesting player to watch too, but I don't count him as one of the top tier Korean players anymore, same goes with Nada and especially Inca, after his pathetic performance in the GSL finals. zzzzz re. Nada owns everyone at MLG 'cept for maybe MC. NaDa will rape MMA jus w8 and see. His TvT is a thing of beauty. NaDa wins even though he gets supply-blocked in almost every game I've seen with him thus far. What a beast. EDIT: I'm not even joking. Imagine how awesome he'd be if he had the time to practice.
Yeah, MC said the same thing, "When I see him do some things during practice I just think "Wow! This guy is completely amazing!""
MMA got supply blocked at 65 vs IdrA too and threw down 4 depots and queued up a lot. His opponent would probably have considered gging
|
On June 08 2011 03:21 Seldszar wrote:
MMA said it in an interview that Thorzain was probably the only one who could do well in GSL.
He said he would be the one who would perform best. Don't spread false information please.
|
On June 07 2011 22:09 ct2299 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 19:35 Aristodemus wrote:On June 07 2011 17:10 ChickenLips wrote:On June 07 2011 15:15 andrewlt wrote:
It's easier to appreciate the Korean players when watching replays instead of vods. I've watched a few and the Korean player is usually at around 250 apm while the foreigner is at 170. You could sometimes see the screen fly back and forth between areas while a fight is going on. Not Jaedong-esque apm, but still enough that you could say the Koreans are going to win standard games most of the time. They were also floating less minerals and gas more often than not. I really think APM is hugely overrated. All the top pros spam. Some more than others. Watch replays of merz, that guy constantly spams 400 APM and gets his hand handed to him by SjoW with his 80 APM all the time. But (!) the Koreans are much better at multi tasking and macro. You can see MMA macro right when the banelings roll in during his big battle. I've never seen a foreigner do something like that. He really is correct when he says the difference is that Koreans view gaming as their job and that's why they are so good. They live in progaming houses and know how to train from their BW days. It's quite sad, but with the way the foreigner scene is developping at the moment, they will never be able to out-perform the Korean scene. They might be able to throw more money at the game, but unless something drastic changes: 'Koreans own white dudes' On the korean > foreigner issue we will see at dreamhack because better foreigners and better koreans are going. If they own it up like they did at MLG then I will agree. Lol you would say you're waiting till Dreamhack since the korean players this time are hardly top tier aside from MKP and MC. Fruitdealer hasn't played well at all ever since winning the first GSL, AnyPro is in the middle range of Code S players and Inca, well look at the GSL finals. Nada is also very shaky as well. I don't know how the Koreans going are in any way "better" than the ones who just went. I would take a team of MC, Losira, MMA and Moon any day over a team of Inca, Nada, Fruitdealer and MKP/AnyPro. But then, of course you would want to use Dreamhack as the tournament to truly judge the Korean skill gap, instead of the tournament that JUST happened where top Europeans like Naniwa and the constantly championed Thorzain lost. Naniwa lost PRETTY DAMN convincingly against Losira too, infact Losira STOMPED Naniwa pretty hard. But of course, MLG doesn't matter right? There's nothing wrong with supporting foreigners, but it just looks downright stubborn and borderline ignorant to still try and deny the fact the foreigners at MLG got owned pretty hard.
I personally believe Dreamhack will be the "last" test to see where the foreigners stand against Koreans. Very few Euros played in MLG (and Morrow died in the open bracket) and since everyone always goes on about the high caliber of Europeans - Dreamhack will be the one chance to show that they've improved since DH Winter and IEM World.
I also want to make a note that the Koreans at Dreamhack will be harder...also why would you even bother commenting on it if the selection isn't even complete yet.
- MKP is at least on par with MMA. MMA got by with his amazing TvZ (something that MKP also rode for GSL season 2 as well) - his other matches, especially vP is very weak. So consider MKP the replacement for MMA.
- NaDa though always disappointing in the end (and usually plays very rigid BOs) has 60%+ winrates in all his matches on the Korean stage, he could easily give MMA a run for his money.
- Inca is a PvP specialist, Losira is an anti-TvZ specialist, yet he managed to roll the Terrans he did play. Inca may stink at PvZ but I'm sure he will be equally as scary as Losira in the international stage.
- Anypro, well he is terrible.
Of course, players like Fruitdealer will lose at Dreamhack (I would hope), but nobody considers those top tier players anymore. Thus, you won't need to worry yourself that people will be pointing throughout saying..."awww yeah, we just rolled FD". It's just like most people looking back at MLG are really only giving credit to Idra and Thorzain for taking a couple games off MC (and Sjow for gaming MMA and July) - but everyone is ignoring Moon's actual defeats to Nani and Slush. (and no, you should never consider Moon top tier, he's actually very sloppy bar a game or two).
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
