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MLG Columbus Day 3 - Page 1431

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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We will be moderating harshly in this thread. Think twice before you post. Things we are watching for: image macros, balance whining, "eagles", player bashing etc. We encourage civil and reasoned critique of our moderation - please post it in the website feedback forum.

Please don't complain about MLG stream quality or MLG itself. They work very hard to provide you with an enjoyable service.

Enough with the racism discussions, this is a LR Thread. Cut it out.
-- updated 7:55 KST
LiamTheZerg
Profile Joined March 2011
United States523 Posts
June 07 2011 21:07 GMT
#28601
Does anyone know if it's possible to DL the VODs they have? Really want some of the Losira/July matches, maybe some others too
Jjakji | Sage | Seal | Shuttle | DongRaeGu | oGsTheSTC | Bomber | Curious | Oz
ct2299
Profile Joined February 2011
380 Posts
June 08 2011 00:31 GMT
#28602
On June 08 2011 05:19 PartyBiscuit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2011 22:09 ct2299 wrote:
On June 07 2011 19:35 Aristodemus wrote:
On June 07 2011 17:10 ChickenLips wrote:
On June 07 2011 15:15 andrewlt wrote:
It's easier to appreciate the Korean players when watching replays instead of vods. I've watched a few and the Korean player is usually at around 250 apm while the foreigner is at 170. You could sometimes see the screen fly back and forth between areas while a fight is going on. Not Jaedong-esque apm, but still enough that you could say the Koreans are going to win standard games most of the time. They were also floating less minerals and gas more often than not.


I really think APM is hugely overrated. All the top pros spam. Some more than others. Watch replays of merz, that guy constantly spams 400 APM and gets his hand handed to him by SjoW with his 80 APM all the time.

But (!) the Koreans are much better at multi tasking and macro. You can see MMA macro right when the banelings roll in during his big battle. I've never seen a foreigner do something like that. He really is correct when he says the difference is that Koreans view gaming as their job and that's why they are so good. They live in progaming houses and know how to train from their BW days.

It's quite sad, but with the way the foreigner scene is developping at the moment, they will never be able to out-perform the Korean scene. They might be able to throw more money at the game, but unless something drastic changes: 'Koreans own white dudes'

On the korean > foreigner issue we will see at dreamhack because better foreigners and better koreans are going. If they own it up like they did at MLG then I will agree.


Lol you would say you're waiting till Dreamhack since the korean players this time are hardly top tier aside from MKP and MC. Fruitdealer hasn't played well at all ever since winning the first GSL, AnyPro is in the middle range of Code S players and Inca, well look at the GSL finals. Nada is also very shaky as well. I don't know how the Koreans going are in any way "better" than the ones who just went. I would take a team of MC, Losira, MMA and Moon any day over a team of Inca, Nada, Fruitdealer and MKP/AnyPro.

But then, of course you would want to use Dreamhack as the tournament to truly judge the Korean skill gap, instead of the tournament that JUST happened where top Europeans like Naniwa and the constantly championed Thorzain lost. Naniwa lost PRETTY DAMN convincingly against Losira too, infact Losira STOMPED Naniwa pretty hard. But of course, MLG doesn't matter right?

There's nothing wrong with supporting foreigners, but it just looks downright stubborn and borderline ignorant to still try and deny the fact the foreigners at MLG got owned pretty hard.

I personally believe Dreamhack will be the "last" test to see where the foreigners stand against Koreans. Very few Euros played in MLG (and Morrow died in the open bracket) and since everyone always goes on about the high caliber of Europeans - Dreamhack will be the one chance to show that they've improved since DH Winter and IEM World.

I also want to make a note that the Koreans at Dreamhack will be harder...also why would you even bother commenting on it if the selection isn't even complete yet.

- MKP is at least on par with MMA. MMA got by with his amazing TvZ (something that MKP also rode for GSL season 2 as well) - his other matches, especially vP is very weak. So consider MKP the replacement for MMA.

- NaDa though always disappointing in the end (and usually plays very rigid BOs) has 60%+ winrates in all his matches on the Korean stage, he could easily give MMA a run for his money.

- Inca is a PvP specialist, Losira is an anti-TvZ specialist, yet he managed to roll the Terrans he did play. Inca may stink at PvZ but I'm sure he will be equally as scary as Losira in the international stage.

- Anypro, well he is terrible.

Of course, players like Fruitdealer will lose at Dreamhack (I would hope), but nobody considers those top tier players anymore. Thus, you won't need to worry yourself that people will be pointing throughout saying..."awww yeah, we just rolled FD". It's just like most people looking back at MLG are really only giving credit to Idra and Thorzain for taking a couple games off MC (and Sjow for gaming MMA and July) - but everyone is ignoring Moon's actual defeats to Nani and Slush. (and no, you should never consider Moon top tier, he's actually very sloppy bar a game or two).




I think you bring up valid points, and I agree a lot with what you say. I don't agree though that Inca will be scary on the international stage. If you think about his run through GSL to the finals, a lot of his play was one-base IIRC.

I personally DO believe that Europeans will fare better against the Koreans at Dreamhack.

Unfortunately, I also think that people will use FD's losses as a sign of "foreigners being on equal level", think back to when Thorzain beat FD.
Skipton
Profile Joined December 2010
United States707 Posts
June 08 2011 05:27 GMT
#28603
MLG recently said that they will be announcing the code a invites soon when the players confirmed that they will take the slot.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=129727

This thread is about 3 posts longer than this one btw
Clutch8
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States258 Posts
June 08 2011 05:36 GMT
#28604
Here are my personal reflections on MLG: Columbus. See you guys in Anaheim!

Vimsey
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom2235 Posts
June 08 2011 06:00 GMT
#28605
On June 07 2011 12:03 ilmman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2011 11:47 KimJongChill wrote:
On June 07 2011 11:36 Wuster wrote:
Double elimination is great. It takes out some of the luck of the draw from tournaments. (Like Bomber and Nestea playing the Ro32 of the Super Tournament).


Not when there's extended series...


Extended series is there so that if the player at a disadvaNTAGE IS BETTer than he should win easily anyways. Take MC and idra for example..

Well usually in double elimination you dont meet the person who beat you until the final and then you have to beat them in two series and they only have to win one series, because nobody likes a short final. But MLG has messed around with the whole double elimination format and included group play in it, so it makes extended series a joke.
Emporio
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3069 Posts
June 08 2011 06:02 GMT
#28606
I... I think this just became the largest thread on TL?!
How does it feel knowing you wasted another 3 seconds of your life reading this again?
Skipton
Profile Joined December 2010
United States707 Posts
June 08 2011 06:03 GMT
#28607
Now it did GOGO ANAHEIM!
duk3
Profile Joined September 2010
United States807 Posts
June 08 2011 06:06 GMT
#28608
Really impressive how quickly this thread grew.
Go MLG!!
Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.
BlaCha
Profile Joined March 2005
Poland743 Posts
June 08 2011 06:39 GMT
#28609
I've seen a few games live on the stream, but not all.
Downloaded the whole pack but have little time to watch.

What games would you guys recommend ?

thanks.
Of course, fucking of course.
RPR_Tempest
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Australia7798 Posts
June 08 2011 07:06 GMT
#28610
choyafOu said on Twitter that he would be going to the next MLG regardless of if he was invited or not.

sC and Leenock tearing up the open bracket at Anaheim?
Soundwave, Zerg player from Canberra, Australia. @SoundwaveSC
Coldviolet
Profile Joined August 2010
United States110 Posts
June 08 2011 17:15 GMT
#28611
So, the Koreans went ESL and took the 1st, 2nd and 3rd place.
MC went to the last Dreamhack and won the tournament.
5 Koreans went MLG, took over 1~3 and the other 2 got knocked out by fellow Koreans.

...and some people say we can't generally tell that Koreans are better until the next Dreamhack, what...?

The only league Koreans didn't do well is the online version, where they claim that it's laggy.
Always Outnumbered, Never Outgunned.
Beardfish
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States525 Posts
June 08 2011 20:04 GMT
#28612
The links to the blue/red restreams no longer work since MLG updated their website. Anyone know where I can access these? I can only find a VOD of the finals and a few other key games.
Teradur
Profile Joined April 2010
97 Posts
June 08 2011 20:07 GMT
#28613
On June 09 2011 05:04 Beardfish wrote:
The links to the blue/red restreams no longer work since MLG updated their website. Anyone know where I can access these? I can only find a VOD of the finals and a few other key games.


http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-columbus-starcraft-2-rebroadcasts-brackets-and-results/
NuKedUFirst
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada3139 Posts
June 08 2011 20:45 GMT
#28614
Was there streaming issues besides the weather? I don't see why MLG gave free HD at this event, not complaining, just curious. This MLG seemed like the best yet.
FrostedMiniWeet wrote: I like winning because it validates all the bloody time I waste playing SC2.
Bandreus
Profile Joined April 2010
Italy69 Posts
June 08 2011 20:58 GMT
#28615
On June 09 2011 05:45 NuKedUFirst wrote:
Was there streaming issues besides the weather? I don't see why MLG gave free HD at this event, not complaining, just curious. This MLG seemed like the best yet.


Nope, not rly, streams were amazing throughout the weekend. Official word from Sundance (on stage), they chose to let free access to the HD content because they did not wont to f* up anything with the infrastructure with any sort of change right when all was going smooth. Whether that was true or it just was a really smart marketing/PR decision, it was very nice.

And yes, MLG Columbus rocked. Can't wait for the next one
KimJongChill
Profile Joined January 2011
United States6429 Posts
June 08 2011 21:18 GMT
#28616
On June 08 2011 09:31 ct2299 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 05:19 PartyBiscuit wrote:
On June 07 2011 22:09 ct2299 wrote:
On June 07 2011 19:35 Aristodemus wrote:
On June 07 2011 17:10 ChickenLips wrote:
On June 07 2011 15:15 andrewlt wrote:
It's easier to appreciate the Korean players when watching replays instead of vods. I've watched a few and the Korean player is usually at around 250 apm while the foreigner is at 170. You could sometimes see the screen fly back and forth between areas while a fight is going on. Not Jaedong-esque apm, but still enough that you could say the Koreans are going to win standard games most of the time. They were also floating less minerals and gas more often than not.


I really think APM is hugely overrated. All the top pros spam. Some more than others. Watch replays of merz, that guy constantly spams 400 APM and gets his hand handed to him by SjoW with his 80 APM all the time.

But (!) the Koreans are much better at multi tasking and macro. You can see MMA macro right when the banelings roll in during his big battle. I've never seen a foreigner do something like that. He really is correct when he says the difference is that Koreans view gaming as their job and that's why they are so good. They live in progaming houses and know how to train from their BW days.

It's quite sad, but with the way the foreigner scene is developping at the moment, they will never be able to out-perform the Korean scene. They might be able to throw more money at the game, but unless something drastic changes: 'Koreans own white dudes'

On the korean > foreigner issue we will see at dreamhack because better foreigners and better koreans are going. If they own it up like they did at MLG then I will agree.


Lol you would say you're waiting till Dreamhack since the korean players this time are hardly top tier aside from MKP and MC. Fruitdealer hasn't played well at all ever since winning the first GSL, AnyPro is in the middle range of Code S players and Inca, well look at the GSL finals. Nada is also very shaky as well. I don't know how the Koreans going are in any way "better" than the ones who just went. I would take a team of MC, Losira, MMA and Moon any day over a team of Inca, Nada, Fruitdealer and MKP/AnyPro.

But then, of course you would want to use Dreamhack as the tournament to truly judge the Korean skill gap, instead of the tournament that JUST happened where top Europeans like Naniwa and the constantly championed Thorzain lost. Naniwa lost PRETTY DAMN convincingly against Losira too, infact Losira STOMPED Naniwa pretty hard. But of course, MLG doesn't matter right?

There's nothing wrong with supporting foreigners, but it just looks downright stubborn and borderline ignorant to still try and deny the fact the foreigners at MLG got owned pretty hard.

I personally believe Dreamhack will be the "last" test to see where the foreigners stand against Koreans. Very few Euros played in MLG (and Morrow died in the open bracket) and since everyone always goes on about the high caliber of Europeans - Dreamhack will be the one chance to show that they've improved since DH Winter and IEM World.

I also want to make a note that the Koreans at Dreamhack will be harder...also why would you even bother commenting on it if the selection isn't even complete yet.

- MKP is at least on par with MMA. MMA got by with his amazing TvZ (something that MKP also rode for GSL season 2 as well) - his other matches, especially vP is very weak. So consider MKP the replacement for MMA.

- NaDa though always disappointing in the end (and usually plays very rigid BOs) has 60%+ winrates in all his matches on the Korean stage, he could easily give MMA a run for his money.

- Inca is a PvP specialist, Losira is an anti-TvZ specialist, yet he managed to roll the Terrans he did play. Inca may stink at PvZ but I'm sure he will be equally as scary as Losira in the international stage.

- Anypro, well he is terrible.

Of course, players like Fruitdealer will lose at Dreamhack (I would hope), but nobody considers those top tier players anymore. Thus, you won't need to worry yourself that people will be pointing throughout saying..."awww yeah, we just rolled FD". It's just like most people looking back at MLG are really only giving credit to Idra and Thorzain for taking a couple games off MC (and Sjow for gaming MMA and July) - but everyone is ignoring Moon's actual defeats to Nani and Slush. (and no, you should never consider Moon top tier, he's actually very sloppy bar a game or two).




I think you bring up valid points, and I agree a lot with what you say. I don't agree though that Inca will be scary on the international stage. If you think about his run through GSL to the finals, a lot of his play was one-base IIRC.

I personally DO believe that Europeans will fare better against the Koreans at Dreamhack.

Unfortunately, I also think that people will use FD's losses as a sign of "foreigners being on equal level", think back to when Thorzain beat FD.


Another thing to note is that it's just the top tier Koreans that the top foreigners can't seem to touch. Otherwise, I'm sure that the foreign scene can compete with the Koreans, and may eventually produce some monsters like MC, Nestea, MVP. Thorzain actually looks incredibly promising, and although Naniwa was a bit disappointing, he played against possibly the best ZvPer in the world Losira, and came arguably close to beating MC that first game.
MMA: U realise MMA: Most of my army EgIdra: fuck off MMA: Killed my orbital MMA: LOL MMA: just saying MMA: u werent loss
RmoteCntrld
Profile Joined June 2010
United States596 Posts
June 09 2011 02:32 GMT
#28617
Was JF there? I know he was on the player list.
untiemyshoe
Profile Joined April 2011
New Zealand110 Posts
June 09 2011 02:41 GMT
#28618
amazing competition loved it. also MMA! MMA! MMA!
kek
Soluhwin
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1287 Posts
June 09 2011 02:54 GMT
#28619
On June 09 2011 11:32 RmoteCntrld wrote:
Was JF there? I know he was on the player list.


Woa JF, haven't heard that name in a while...has he had any sort of success in sc2 and I'm just really behind everybody?
I put the sexy in dyslexia.
AfterEleven
Profile Joined May 2011
151 Posts
June 09 2011 02:55 GMT
#28620
Great event, I'd like to see MarineKing at Anaheim.
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