On December 08 2011 23:42 Jakkerr wrote: Well... I'm pretty sure this is the worst tournament format I have seen in a long long time. Well played WCG
LOOOOOLs.
I won't make a comment on the actual validity of the format, but you do realize that WCG has this format every year so 1 year is a long long time for you? xD
Hell, I think the worst format in terms of determining skill would be TL Open because they have an single-elimination Bo1 for quite a while, but it's nothing major so no one cares. Plus, it's not feasible for the TL open to run any other way unless they have a lot more time, but looking at it in terms of format only, TL Open is the worse.
WOW! I thought it would surely be a three way between elfi socke and sen in group A but turns out I was wrong! I always knew Xigua is good but 6-0 in his group??? AND IDRA WTF! What a shocking WCG so far!
On December 08 2011 23:49 wklbishop wrote: LOLs. This group format really rewards MVP's safe solid style of play rather than a riskier player, which is reflected in MVP's 6-0.
Doesn't that go against what a lot of people have been arguing in this thread that this format rewards cheese?
It rewards cheese when Idra loses. However, it rewards safe/solid play when MVP wins... see what I mean?
On December 08 2011 23:42 Jakkerr wrote: Well... I'm pretty sure this is the worst tournament format I have seen in a long long time. Well played WCG
LOOOOOLs.
I won't make a comment on the actual validity of the format, but you do realize that WCG has this format every year so 1 year is a long long time for you? xD
Hell, I think the worst format in terms of determining skill would be TL Open because they have an single-elimination Bo1 for quite a while, but it's nothing major so no one cares. Plus, it's not feasible for the TL open to run any other way unless they have a lot more time, but looking at it in terms of format only, TL Open is the worse.
Actually as far as i can remember there was a dreamhack in which there was BO1 group stage matches......dreamhack winter 2010 IIRC. Actionjesuz got famous there looooool
On December 09 2011 00:26 Twistacles wrote: Ohhh it was bo1s? That explains idra/sen not qualifying. Kinda lame, though.
It's not like this tournaments had more upsets than dreamhack.. I still don't buy the arguments that bo1's are intrinsically worse indicators of strength.. perhaps if only 1 match decided your luck but 6 of them, I think that should be enough. If you finished at 50%, you sucked, period. Fanboys are just upset about Idra.. I mean did anyone make a fuzz about dreamhack bo3's -- and argue about bo5's -- when deathangel finished ahead of sen and grubby? or Titan ahead of Huk? or NightEnd ahead of Kas?, or Naama ahead of Thorzain?, or Seipio ahead of Genius? or Stephano not winning a single game in the second stage? .. not really.
Maybe because bo1 (cf. Laddergames) are pretty cheesy and don't imply any sort of long run strategy and mindgames. BoX like the ones we can see on GSL DH or NASL final are pretty relevent of the difference.
On December 09 2011 00:26 Twistacles wrote: Ohhh it was bo1s? That explains idra/sen not qualifying. Kinda lame, though.
The statistical difference between Bo1s, Bo3s and Bo5s is actually pretty small IIRC. If you are strong enough to 2-0 or 2-1 a player, chances are you are strong enough to 1-0 them, 3-0, 3-1 or 3-2 them.
Sure, there is a little bit more variance, but not much.
On December 09 2011 00:26 Twistacles wrote: Ohhh it was bo1s? That explains idra/sen not qualifying. Kinda lame, though.
The statistical difference between Bo1s, Bo3s and Bo5s is actually pretty small IIRC. If you are strong enough to 2-0 or 2-1 a player, chances are you are strong enough to 1-0 them, 3-0, 3-1 or 3-2 them.
Sure, there is a little bit more variance, but not much.
That's actually pretty lame Bo3 and Bo5 is more skill related then bo1 anybody can cheese in bo1 especially at SC2 it's not like BW, pretty easier to cheese in SC2. Bo1 is lame imo next year WCG should think about making the groupstage matches bo3
On December 08 2011 23:49 wklbishop wrote: LOLs. This group format really rewards MVP's safe solid style of play rather than a riskier player, which is reflected in MVP's 6-0.
Doesn't that go against what a lot of people have been arguing in this thread that this format rewards cheese?
It rewards cheese when Idra loses. However, it rewards safe/solid play when MVP wins... see what I mean?
LOLs. I made no comment on idra and made that comment based on the fact that I SAW MVP's games whereas I did not see idra's games so I won't make a comment on idra. If you want to make a comment on idra, you will have to watch those games first and only the Titan game has been shown as far as I know. I don't get why people like to drag idra into everything when they haven't even seen his games...
There were some funky plays people were trying on MVP which MVP just kind of stomped on (like quick collosus drop play MVP mentioned in his interview). Or how MVP just macro-ed up versus that guy and got 200 food to 140 food without major engagements.
On December 09 2011 00:44 SC2NeCro wrote: Uh.... what? 1-0 relies on luck way more. Your logic makes no sense.
I mean that statistically, a player which won a Bo3 against an opponent is still overwhelmingly likely to win a Bo1 as well. Sure, people always say it's far more random, but the statistical difference is actually fairly small, again, IIRC. There was a thread about it a while ago.
On December 09 2011 00:26 Twistacles wrote: Ohhh it was bo1s? That explains idra/sen not qualifying. Kinda lame, though.
I didn't see the matches, but my guess is that idra just played bad. A player of his calibre should be able to hold a cheese from a lesser player. The excuse that he was cheesed doesn't work any more, if it is that big of a problem he should learn to deal with it. Like MVP, he went 6-0 despite the bo1.
On December 09 2011 00:26 Twistacles wrote: Ohhh it was bo1s? That explains idra/sen not qualifying. Kinda lame, though.
The statistical difference between Bo1s, Bo3s and Bo5s is actually pretty small IIRC. If you are strong enough to 2-0 or 2-1 a player, chances are you are strong enough to 1-0 them, 3-0, 3-1 or 3-2 them.
Sure, there is a little bit more variance, but not much.
The statistical difference doesn't show the real difference though. Of course the person who wins the first game has a greater chance to take a best of three, or even a best of 5. That should be obvious to anyone that knows how to do math. But that doesn't mean that best of 1s are therefore equally fair to best of 3s. Even if it is a small difference, that difference can create big changes in a tournament. Look at DRG's recent interview about his Coda A match against Taeja. DRG said that he expected to lose the first map because it was Antiga Shipyard and he expected to win the other two, which he did. If it was a best of 1 then he would have straight up lost.
EPT
