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I think Game 1 in the Sen v. IdrA set was a brilliant call by IdrA. IdrA is not known for early rushes, he typically favours a longer mid- and late-game macro style, and so Sen was definitely not expecting the 10 pool ling/drone/spine all-in. Good on-the-fly call by IdrA.
That said, he definitely got outplayed in the latter games. Sen holding his natural in the second game, leaving him up a base and on roach tech vs. lings was huge, and Sen holding onto his third with the advantage in infestor tech in the second game was the decider. Yes, IdrA made mistakes in both games - letting banelings explode on the roach in G2 and overdroning in G3, but that doesn't diminish Sen's achievement here.
Considering this will probably be one of the few sets IdrA loses in the preseason, that was pretty big. Nice to see brilliant play from Sen.
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I'm one of the biggest IdrA fans ever...
But I've never seen him play so bad, he did the exact same mistakes that Jinro always do in GSL now days; He gives up prematurely or thinks he is always behind himself... playing scared or risky WITHOUT purpouse of being risky or even controlling it: As when the risk does not pay off they panic and you see an obvious fault in their gameplay or style... idra is never the one to do mistakes like these yet he fucked up bad.
Nice games else.
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Favorites are based off of stats as they always have been, skill is measured in wins, not in confidence. Idra was the favorite for the match. if you were to look at Calm vs. Zero in the MSL, They're two players very similar in skill, Zero has 49% in the matchup while calm has 56%. Therefor Calm is the favorite, that's just how it works opinions are nothing more than opinions.
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On May 16 2011 12:58 d(O.o)a wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2011 12:56 Frugalicious wrote:On May 16 2011 12:49 d(O.o)a wrote:On May 16 2011 12:48 jmbthirteen wrote:On May 16 2011 12:47 AimForTheBushes wrote:
Wow - Sen pulling the upset - gj Sen! I wouldn't really call it an upset. Until today idra had lost 1 ZvZ Idra in the foreigner scene had only played 2 top tier Zergs and that was Morrow and Sen in the GCPL, where Idra did beat Sen. Those statistics are meaningless. Great job reading the whole thread before commenting, I was referring to the fact that idra being the favorite (not by a long-shot but the favorite at all) and losing means that it was an upset, that is what the term means.
You mentioned in the previous post that Idra was the clear favorite. I'm not trying to say that Idra is far better than Sen but Idra was definitely the favorite. When the favorite loses it's called an upset. Now you are saying he was a favorite not by a long-shot. You really should be more consistent when you are trying to debate over something.
Like everyone else who isn't blinded by fanboyism, it is not an upset if you actually know the players. Sen has an amazing ZvZ and is one of the top foreigner Zergs. Idra acknowledges Sen will be difficult and has an "advantage". What part of that makes it an upset let alone Idea being the definite favorite? Please be less wrong and you should take your own advice and read through the thread. Be less blinded by your fanboyism please.
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I agree with people saying they are over analyzing it. In game 3 i don't think it had anything to do with Idra's mindset, he simply made a decision and it didn't pay off, there wasn't anything else to it.
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On May 16 2011 13:06 Frugalicious wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2011 12:58 d(O.o)a wrote:On May 16 2011 12:56 Frugalicious wrote:On May 16 2011 12:49 d(O.o)a wrote:On May 16 2011 12:48 jmbthirteen wrote:On May 16 2011 12:47 AimForTheBushes wrote:
Wow - Sen pulling the upset - gj Sen! I wouldn't really call it an upset. Until today idra had lost 1 ZvZ Idra in the foreigner scene had only played 2 top tier Zergs and that was Morrow and Sen in the GCPL, where Idra did beat Sen. Those statistics are meaningless. Great job reading the whole thread before commenting, I was referring to the fact that idra being the favorite (not by a long-shot but the favorite at all) and losing means that it was an upset, that is what the term means. You mentioned in the previous post that Idra was the clear favorite. Show nested quote +I'm not trying to say that Idra is far better than Sen but Idra was definitely the favorite. When the favorite loses it's called an upset. Now you are saying he was a favorite not by a long-shot. You really should be more consistent when you are trying to debate over something. Like everyone else who isn't blinded by fanboyism, it is not an upset if you actually know the players. Sen has an amazing ZvZ and is one of the top foreigner Zergs. Idra acknowledges Sen will be difficult and has an "advantage". What part of that makes it an upset let alone Idea being the definite favorite? Please be less wrong and you should take your own advice and read through the thread. Be less blinded by your fanboyism please.
I said he's definitely the favorite, not the favorite by a long shot, if you have 21 apples and somebody else has 20 apples, you definitely have more apples but you don't have way more apples.
Also as for your comment about blind fanboyism, I'm a sen fan more than an idra fan I simply like to argue over semantics.
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Don't let the minor typo ruin your life, please.
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On May 16 2011 13:03 Beef Noodles wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2011 12:57 Tracedragon wrote:
Oh come on, IdrA got outplayed... why is any further discussion required?
The only win he took off of Sen in this series was with a 9pool spine crawler rush, fyi. First off, sen is awesome and a beast. But secondly, what do you mean "the only win he took off of Sen..." It was a best of 3 dood. If he took off another game, he would have won... IdrA and Sen are the best foreign zergs, both are able to take games off of each other in micro and macro games. I wouldn't read too much into a best of 3.
How can people say IdrA and Sen are the best. What about Dimaga? You know, the only player to ever beat NesTea in a ZvZ bo3?
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On May 16 2011 13:05 d(O.o)a wrote:
Favorites are based off of stats as they always have been, skill is measured in wins, not in confidence. Idra was the favorite for the match. if you were to look at Calm vs. Zero in the MSL, They're two players very similar in skill, Zero has 49% in the matchup while calm has 56%. Therefor Calm is the favorite, that's just how it works opinions are nothing more than opinions.
Youre using statistics worse then the guy who wrote "elephant in the room" article
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On May 16 2011 13:05 d(O.o)a wrote:
Favorites are based off of stats as they always have been, skill is measured in wins, not in confidence. Idra was the favorite for the match. if you were to look at Calm vs. Zero in the MSL, They're two players very similar in skill, Zero has 49% in the matchup while calm has 56%. Therefor Calm is the favorite, that's just how it works opinions are nothing more than opinions.
Idra may be the favorite in the general ZvZ matchup, but in the ZvSen matchup he's not the favorite.
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On May 16 2011 12:52 namedplayer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2011 12:52 aurum510 wrote:
I'm surprised people are surprised Sen beat IdrA. Sen even took a game off NesTea, the best ZvZ player in the world hands down in GSL2 (the one NesTea won). are u sure? i thoguht that wuz 2-0
You're right it was 2-0, but IIRC they had to regame for some reason after Sen had won. It broke my heart. Also it was in GSL3.
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The third game, Idra over-droned because he thought Sen was going to fall back and drone up, as Idra considers Sen a pretty defensive player (which Sen is, these days, quite unlike how he was just a few months ago). It was a risky decision, capable of paying off, but didn't because Sen had the killer instincts to go after Idra and won. And as this series was began with a meta-game victory, so it ended with a meta-game victory.
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"zerg can't win" in ZvZ too apparently.
I thought Idra looked like a big fat hypocrite for cheesing since that is the most skill based matchup he could possibly hope for.
at least he says gg when its ZvZ.
go sen!
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On May 16 2011 13:07 MountainDewJunkie wrote:Don't let the minor typo ruin your life, please.
Are you really that obnoxious?
I'm asking because I'm not sure if the series went to game 3 or not. Relax young grasshopper.
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On May 16 2011 13:05 d(O.o)a wrote:
Favorites are based off of stats as they always have been, skill is measured in wins, not in confidence. Idra was the favorite for the match. if you were to look at Calm vs. Zero in the MSL, They're two players very similar in skill, Zero has 49% in the matchup while calm has 56%. Therefor Calm is the favorite, that's just how it works opinions are nothing more than opinions.
Yes the word favorite can be used to distinguish a player over another despite how minute the skill gap may be, but the word upset should only apply when a clear favorite has been beaten by a lesser opponent.
In the NBA playoffs, Memphis beating San Antonio is an upset, but I don't really think Atlanta beating Orlando is an upset.
Idra vs Sen imo can be compared to Dallas vs LA. LA is the fan favorite, so many people expected them to win, so when they lost people saw it as a huge upset, when in reality it was a 3 seed besting a 2 seed. (I know part of it is that they were sweeped, but I'm sure many people had Lakers coming out on top in that series)
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On May 16 2011 13:07 d(O.o)a wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2011 13:06 Frugalicious wrote:On May 16 2011 12:58 d(O.o)a wrote:On May 16 2011 12:56 Frugalicious wrote:On May 16 2011 12:49 d(O.o)a wrote:On May 16 2011 12:48 jmbthirteen wrote:On May 16 2011 12:47 AimForTheBushes wrote:
Wow - Sen pulling the upset - gj Sen! I wouldn't really call it an upset. Until today idra had lost 1 ZvZ Idra in the foreigner scene had only played 2 top tier Zergs and that was Morrow and Sen in the GCPL, where Idra did beat Sen. Those statistics are meaningless. Great job reading the whole thread before commenting, I was referring to the fact that idra being the favorite (not by a long-shot but the favorite at all) and losing means that it was an upset, that is what the term means. You mentioned in the previous post that Idra was the clear favorite. I'm not trying to say that Idra is far better than Sen but Idra was definitely the favorite. When the favorite loses it's called an upset. Now you are saying he was a favorite not by a long-shot. You really should be more consistent when you are trying to debate over something. Like everyone else who isn't blinded by fanboyism, it is not an upset if you actually know the players. Sen has an amazing ZvZ and is one of the top foreigner Zergs. Idra acknowledges Sen will be difficult and has an "advantage". What part of that makes it an upset let alone Idea being the definite favorite? Please be less wrong and you should take your own advice and read through the thread. Be less blinded by your fanboyism please. I said he's definitely the favorite, not the favorite by a long shot, if you have 21 apples and somebody else has 20 apples, you definitely have more apples but you don't have way more apples. Also as for your comment about blind fanboyism, I'm a sen fan more than an idra fan I simply like to argue over semantics.
Your analogy isn't even applicable. By that logic Idra, Bubba, and Slush would be the favorite over Nestea (basing off the stats of the international TLPD). That is simply not true by any means. The stats of each player aren't even weighted equally.
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On May 16 2011 13:08 Gezuz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2011 13:05 d(O.o)a wrote:
Favorites are based off of stats as they always have been, skill is measured in wins, not in confidence. Idra was the favorite for the match. if you were to look at Calm vs. Zero in the MSL, They're two players very similar in skill, Zero has 49% in the matchup while calm has 56%. Therefor Calm is the favorite, that's just how it works opinions are nothing more than opinions.
Youre using statistics worse then the guy who wrote "elephant in the room" article
Statistics are statistics there's nothing more to it.
Idra vs. Sen head to head: 1-0 favoring idra.
The only other player that they both played is morrow who sen is 0-1 against and idra is 2-1 against, once again favoring idra.
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For those wondering why Boxer is 3rd, its because of the score differential. Most of Boxer's win was 2-1.
I can really see this going down to the last week for the top 2 spots between Boxer and Idra. Both of them just needs to win their games until then.
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On May 16 2011 13:14 d(O.o)a wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2011 13:08 Gezuz wrote:On May 16 2011 13:05 d(O.o)a wrote:
Favorites are based off of stats as they always have been, skill is measured in wins, not in confidence. Idra was the favorite for the match. if you were to look at Calm vs. Zero in the MSL, They're two players very similar in skill, Zero has 49% in the matchup while calm has 56%. Therefor Calm is the favorite, that's just how it works opinions are nothing more than opinions.
Youre using statistics worse then the guy who wrote "elephant in the room" article Statistics are statistics there's nothing more to it. Idra vs. Sen head to head: 1-0 favoring idra. The only other player that they both played is morrow who sen is 0-1 against and idra is 2-1 against, once again favoring idra.
Zenio beat Idra in the GSL and Sen in this league beat Zenio 2-0.
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