The Ryung and MC victory I see going down, but what is up with the anti-Check voting. Did I miss some abysmal performance? Guess my memory is letting me down, but I seem to remember aLive giving a not-so-stellar performance last time around, so I went with Byun and Check. Here is to hoping that those 13% are right
OK OP should be all updated, hopefully got the maps right ^^
Byun opening heavy marines, now transitioning into tanks. aLive opening with a banshee and going marine/tank a bit earlier.
Byun in a bad spot really, big siege line fairly close to his nat.
Byun doesn't have anything to break it, aLive able to comfortably siege below the nat, but Byun does finally have some tanks and forces him to back off.
alive pretty much containing byun this whole time. alive 1 mech weapon upgrade finishing, lvl 2 bio weapons finishing. 2-2 just started for byun and alive is stopping mining at the natural of byun
aLive outplayed Byun much in this game, i think Byun used to be better than that when he played against TOP last season? or last last season in the Code A final
aLive was one basing pretty hard on that opening, so despite all the damage in Byun's base he's not behind on workers, and is also fairly close on tech.
Stim and shields on his marines, just no starport and siege mode not completed yet.
Its 3 base vs 3 base NOW, all the time that Alive was pressuring he was still on 2 base. You can't be lower in bases (especially your first three) for that long and expect to have a supply lead unless you do some crazy damage.
On May 10 2011 18:55 Fingulfin wrote: Its 3 base vs 3 base NOW, all the time that Alive was pressuring he was still on 2 base. You can't be lower in bases (especially your first three) for that long and expect to have a supply lead unless you do some crazy damage.
aLive's economy was never really on par, he only took his third by floating the OC down from his main once he was mined out. Byun took it much earlier so I'd imagine he actually had mining going on at a genuine three bases for a good portion there.
I missed most of game one, but I don't understand how Byun could lose to this guy.
Byun completely outplayed him in game two, despite almost dying flat out to the first push. Alive seems to dislike making workers as much as Byun disliked making tanks for the first half of that game.
Why are people recommending these games? Very very boring tvts with 2 players playing safer than they need to (not blaming them but still). up 75 supply? Byun could have a-moved into alive's main 10 minutes ago
On May 10 2011 18:46 OrangeSoda wrote: artosis switched back to zerg o_o?
No, still Protoss.
You can watch his, uh, "unique" gameplay in the NASL.
(He's a good caster though.)
I have a feeling a lot of people would play terribly with lag at 4 in the morning.
He plays very well when he streams.
He's obviously not a bad player and you can make reasonable excuses for him but you can't deny that his play in the NASL has been pretty funny.
On May 10 2011 18:53 SenorChang wrote: Surprised that byun has such a big lead this game considering how much damage alive did early on.
His expansion was up way earlier so Alive had to damage him badly to even be even. It was 32 SCVs vs. 37 when Byun cleared out Alive and he had double mules and double SCV production for about an extra minute and a half after that because of how much later his expansion was.
It doesn't hurt that Alive's macro was pretty bad that game.
Byun tries to run marines past Alive's bunker, loses them all after killing a few marines and SCVs, Alive counters with two tanks and a medivac, Byung forced to pull workers but holds.
Byung sneaks marines into Alive's nat, does some eco damage.
On May 10 2011 19:09 tdt wrote: Why do I always fall asleep watching TvT, I made it into game 2 of Thorzain/Kas and getting sleepy again... it's like baseball.
On May 10 2011 19:17 Talionis wrote: Why did aLive suicide nearly all his SCVs there? I don't understand at all
It was his only mining base being attacked by more of Byun's units than aLive had there to defend. I'd have to rewatch it to verify, but if aLive had lost that base I don't even think he had the money to rebuild. Would've had to float one of his orbitals to a new base.
10 SCV's + mules mining > 40+ SCV's long distance mining over 1/4 of the map.
Already an hour in and we are still on the first set -_-
TvT for ya
Then people whine about PvP
I feel like TvT is the opposite of PvP if you only factor in game time. But they are imo equally intense. Mirror matches always are. Not the most entertaining but very mechanic heavy
On May 10 2011 19:19 summerloud wrote: yawn. i wish there was something to transition into from marine/siegetank
bcs
BCS, a thor or two... and ghosts/nukes .... since basically no one gets ravens in TvT and have to spend like 95% of all scans to scout tank positions ghosts are super good
On May 10 2011 19:19 summerloud wrote: yawn. i wish there was something to transition into from marine/siegetank
Into what ? Buth had no eco to go BC's anything else makes no sense.
Edit: ah i misread , well yeah well BC's is possible but well you'd need some serious economy to do that.
BCs are terrible unless you're already winning by a good amount in which case they can be used to just end the game a bit quicker and look flashy. If you're about even then your opponent gets to crush you whilst you're trying to make an air force.
Marine/Tank is really popular because it's the best composition in TvT.
On May 10 2011 19:19 summerloud wrote: yawn. i wish there was something to transition into from marine/siegetank
Into what ? Buth had no eco to go BC's anything else makes no sense.
Edit: ah i misread , well yeah well BC's is possible but well you'd need some serious economy to do that.
BCs are terrible unless you're already winning by a good amount in which case they can be used to just end the game a bit quicker and look flashy. If you're about even then your opponent gets to crush you whilst you're trying to make an air force.
Marine/Tank is really popular because it's the best composition in TvT.
Both players were trying to push into each others siege lines and drop each other all game long, but each one failed over and over, so it extended each game into 20-30 mins.
If one of them played pure defensive while teching to BC behind a siege line, it might of worked out well.
On May 10 2011 19:19 summerloud wrote: yawn. i wish there was something to transition into from marine/siegetank
Into what ? Buth had no eco to go BC's anything else makes no sense.
Edit: ah i misread , well yeah well BC's is possible but well you'd need some serious economy to do that.
BCs are terrible unless you're already winning by a good amount in which case they can be used to just end the game a bit quicker and look flashy. If you're about even then your opponent gets to crush you whilst you're trying to make an air force.
Marine/Tank is really popular because it's the best composition in TvT.
If you have seen QXC play TvT he transitions into harassment units when the game gets stale with Tank/marines. You will often see him go for a few reapers/banshees
On May 10 2011 19:19 summerloud wrote: yawn. i wish there was something to transition into from marine/siegetank
Into what ? Buth had no eco to go BC's anything else makes no sense.
Edit: ah i misread , well yeah well BC's is possible but well you'd need some serious economy to do that.
BCs are terrible unless you're already winning by a good amount in which case they can be used to just end the game a bit quicker and look flashy. If you're about even then your opponent gets to crush you whilst you're trying to make an air force.
Marine/Tank is really popular because it's the best composition in TvT.
Both players were trying to push into each others siege lines and drop each other all game long, but each one failed over and over, so it extended each game into 20-30 mins.
If one of them played pure defensive while teching to BC behind a siege line, it might of worked out well.
Byun's victory was hardly in doubt from the first 5-10 minutes if he didn't made a mistake. No reason to give your opponent a timing where you're weak if you can stay ahead the whole time. Alive at no point had an economy that could support BCs.
I should say that I think there are other things for players to do - late game banshees, ghosts, reapers - but in terms of your actual "army", marine/tank is best.
On May 10 2011 19:32 bbQ4Aiur wrote: No one watch GSL now? 12 pages..
probly because this first game isn't too interesting. also code A / updown don't get too much attention unless it's uber interesting, probly more people will tune in once mc's games start up I thinks!
Check has failed to improve. He's the same level he was in GSL1 and now everyone has improved so much. Sad to see, always thought he's a pretty good player.
On May 10 2011 19:33 frucisky wrote: Check has failed to improve. He's the same level he was in GSL1 and now everyone has improved so much. Sad to see, always thought he's a pretty good player.
Is it because he's in Prime? I just don't see any strong Prime players.... except of course the obvious
On May 10 2011 19:34 CubEdIn wrote: Awwww. I came in here hoping for zergs Q_Qing about Alive rushing Check. Where art thou, check fans?!
I don't think anyone expects much out of Check these days regardless; he's not bad, but he's not shown anything particularly impressive in quite a while.
On May 10 2011 19:32 bbQ4Aiur wrote: No one watch GSL now? 12 pages..
People are depressed after yesterday for obvious reasons, the up and down matches aren't as exciting as the finals, the players aren't as exciting today and if people are anything like me they are starting to get sick of reading the LR threads because all the negativity that it's usually there. Honestly I prefer these 12 pages with little complaining than 100+ where you have to scroll through so many bad posts it makes your head hurt.
On May 10 2011 19:49 SenorChang wrote: aLive kinda failed with his ghosts there, went for snipes over emp and only killed 2 infestors instead of emping 5 of them?
On May 10 2011 19:49 SenorChang wrote: aLive kinda failed with his ghosts there, went for snipes over emp and only killed 2 infestors instead of emping 5 of them?
Yeah, 2 EMP on 2 infestor groups and he might have been able to stim-snipe the broods.
But since he only sniped a few times, he didn't have 75 energy
On May 10 2011 19:49 SenorChang wrote: aLive kinda failed with his ghosts there, went for snipes over emp and only killed 2 infestors instead of emping 5 of them?
He didn't have the energy upgrade, so probably didn't have enough energy for an emp.
Maybe this is where the natural skill vs hard practice argument picks up -_- Check plays so damn much but still looks mediocre. Just not a very talented player?
On May 10 2011 19:51 Tachion wrote: Maybe this is where the natural skill vs hard practice argument picks up -_- Check plays so damn much but still looks mediocre. Just not a very talented player?
Could be the quality of his practise playing a role as well. You don't automatically become great just because you are good at spamming games. Though I do think certain people have a more natural gift for games (don't have to spend as much energy to become good).
On May 10 2011 19:51 Tachion wrote: Maybe this is where the natural skill vs hard practice argument picks up -_- Check plays so damn much but still looks mediocre. Just not a very talented player?
On May 10 2011 19:52 roymarthyup wrote: brood lords are way too weak
they have like 220 health for so much cost. a couple viking shots kill 2 brood lords anda viking is like half the cost/food
What u said is really retarded, its like saying that Colossus is crap because 1 viking kills 1 colossus and viking is like half the cost/food. U cant look at it that way.
Finally, time for MC to lose to Ryung :D. Too bad it's not another terran in the 4th place, it would have added more tension with the possibility of an upset (HongUn probably can't win against MC in PvP so MC is almost guaranteed to advance no matter what).
So many Zergs are so wasteful with their units. Guess they have more to do, but still. . .
Check down to Code A. It would be a shame to see him out after all this time, but he's really not all that good. Assuming HongUn loses to MC/Ryung, that leaves at best two Prime.WE members in Code S. My how they've fallen.
On May 10 2011 19:52 roymarthyup wrote: brood lords are way too weak
they have like 220 health for so much cost. a couple viking shots kill 2 brood lords anda viking is like half the cost/food
What u said is really retarded, its like saying that Colossus is crap because 1 viking kills 1 colossus and viking is like half the cost/food. U cant look at it that way.
Exactly, they need to be treated like Colossus. Part of a composition that needs an army underneath it and probably above too, eg corruptors for anti air. Fungal for marines, corruptors for vikings, broods for everything else.
On May 10 2011 19:57 bbQ4Aiur wrote: I dont even think MC will lose in a PvT hahaha
He lost his last two preeeetty bad.
I'm pretty sure SlayerS came up with some strats to take down MC like they did in the GSTL. Plus PvT is arguably(Compared to his PvP and PvZ) MC worst Matchup.
On May 10 2011 19:57 bbQ4Aiur wrote: I dont even think MC will lose in a PvT hahaha
He lost his last two preeeetty bad.
I'm pretty sure SlayerS came up with some strats to take down MC like they did in the GSTL. Plus PvT is arguably(Compared to his PvP and PvZ) MC worst Matchup.
SlayerS? I'm talking him getting wrecked to the Up&Down by PoltPrime.
On May 10 2011 20:01 usethis2 wrote: Is there any other Z in Prime team? Check just don't seem to fit the race. I wish he started with Protoss where his micro could shine.
BBongBBong, a new player who seems pretty good judging by his play in the FXOpen.
On May 10 2011 20:01 Seditary wrote: So sounds like a pretty fail night of games so far then?
Just kind of dull, started out with long drawn out TvT's that were mostly tank/marine jockeying for position, and not in the good way. Then Check getting dominated in a TvZ.
The fact nobody is particularly invested in how any of the players were doing didn't help much either xD
On May 10 2011 19:57 bbQ4Aiur wrote: I dont even think MC will lose in a PvT hahaha
He lost his last two preeeetty bad.
Those were simple BO loses though.
How does that negate the loss in any way?
He made the awful BO decisions; if he didn't play with zero respect for his opponent and decide to be the greediest player alive then he wouldn't have lost like that.
On May 10 2011 19:57 bbQ4Aiur wrote: I dont even think MC will lose in a PvT hahaha
He lost his last two preeeetty bad.
Those were simple BO loses though.
How does that negate the loss in any way?
He made the awful BO decisions; if he didn't play with zero respect for his opponent and decide to be the greediest player alive then he wouldn't have lost like that.
MC won't do dumb builds when he can get knocked down to Code A, he will play perfectly boring normal PvP and demolish HongUn, if he doesn't beat Ryung.
On May 10 2011 19:57 bbQ4Aiur wrote: I dont even think MC will lose in a PvT hahaha
He lost his last two preeeetty bad.
Those were simple BO loses though.
How does that negate the loss in any way?
He made the awful BO decisions; if he didn't play with zero respect for his opponent and decide to be the greediest player alive then he wouldn't have lost like that.
Then you could argue that it being a PvT wasn't the reason he lost but rather him making crappy decisions. Doesn't negate the loss but it negates people saying he's not as good in the PvT matchup specifically. Don't know what to think myself.
On May 10 2011 20:01 usethis2 wrote: Is there any other Z in Prime team? Check just don't seem to fit the race. I wish he started with Protoss where his micro could shine.
BBongBBong, a new player who seems pretty good judging by his play in the FXOpen.
How do you prounounce his name? BongBong or BeeBongBeeBong or something?
As much as I would like to see MC in code A or B, I can't in good conscience root against him since it's bad for gsl and the game for top players to perform inconsistently. Sigh
On May 10 2011 19:57 bbQ4Aiur wrote: I dont even think MC will lose in a PvT hahaha
He lost his last two preeeetty bad.
Those were simple BO loses though.
How does that negate the loss in any way?
He made the awful BO decisions; if he didn't play with zero respect for his opponent and decide to be the greediest player alive then he wouldn't have lost like that.
MC won't do dumb builds when he can get knocked down to Code A, he will play perfectly boring normal PvP and demolish HongUn, if he doesn't beat Ryung.
MC did a dumb build to put him in the up and down matches rather than advance to the Ro16 so I don't see why this should be different.
But yeah, he should beat HongUn easily if it comes to that. I was just disagreeing with the idea that because a game is a "BO loss" that means it's a coin flip which isn't the fault of the player or something. He deserved both losses he got and played very poorly.
On May 10 2011 20:12 TheSilverfox wrote: Ryung is not that good against Protoss. HuK beat him convincingly some days ago when they custom game aginst each other.
On May 10 2011 20:12 TheSilverfox wrote: Ryung is not that good against Protoss. HuK beat him convincingly some days ago when they custom game aginst each other.
I love the guy but I think MC got this.
And we all know how awful HuK has been recently.
He's great vs the Korean style of play.. Watch him ladder. Beats many Code S players all the time.
Terrible execution by Ryung. Never moved his Tanks forward, didn't focus down Stalkers with his Tanks (they were all hitting Immortals uselessly), didn't even have his Banshees attacking the last fight.
He really should have done a 2 base timing, at least you can transition into normal TVP from there. To be honest I think Ryung should just play standard, hes extremely solid and would have a very strong chance of taking down MC.
On May 10 2011 20:21 Vitamins wrote: Wasn't really MC who won that battle. Ryung just didn't focus down Immortals with Banshees. What a shame. :|
It definitely seems like Ryung lost that battle more so than MC won it.
Yeah, not to hate on MC though, he was very patient and played very well. But Ryung did have the advantage, he just didn't utilize it enough. Would have liked to see a cloak instead of the extra banshee and get an observer snipe would have definitely been gg.
On May 10 2011 20:21 Vitamins wrote: Wasn't really MC who won that battle. Ryung just didn't focus down Immortals with Banshees. What a shame. :|
It definitely seems like Ryung lost that battle more so than MC won it.
Yeah, not to hate on MC though, he was very patient and played very well. But Ryung did have the advantage, he just didn't utilize it enough. Would have liked to see a cloak instead of the extra banshee and get an observer snipe would have definitely been gg.
On May 10 2011 20:24 bbQ4Aiur wrote: Why is everyone saying ryung is good... any match reference? cause i dont like he is that good
Here we go with this crap, First, his performance in the GSTL2 where he was crucial to their success winning it. Plus the fact he is even in the up and down matches.
On May 10 2011 20:21 Vitamins wrote: Wasn't really MC who won that battle. Ryung just didn't focus down Immortals with Banshees. What a shame. :|
It definitely seems like Ryung lost that battle more so than MC won it.
Yeah, not to hate on MC though, he was very patient and played very well. But Ryung did have the advantage, he just didn't utilize it enough. Would have liked to see a cloak instead of the extra banshee and get an observer snipe would have definitely been gg.
Cost too much gas
Hence "instead of the extra banshee", he'd still be short 100 gas. He certainly had the gas if he cut a banshee and definitely had the time. A cloaked banshee in the main or sniping the immortals would have just decimated MC.
On May 10 2011 20:21 Vitamins wrote: Wasn't really MC who won that battle. Ryung just didn't focus down Immortals with Banshees. What a shame. :|
It definitely seems like Ryung lost that battle more so than MC won it.
Yeah, not to hate on MC though, he was very patient and played very well. But Ryung did have the advantage, he just didn't utilize it enough. Would have liked to see a cloak instead of the extra banshee and get an observer snipe would have definitely been gg.
Cost too much gas
Hence "instead of the extra banshee", he'd still be short 100 gas. He certainly had the gas if he cut a banshee and definitely had the time. A cloaked banshee in the main or sniping the immortals would have just decimated MC.
He just should have leapfroged as early as possible. The build and units were fine.
On May 10 2011 20:24 bbQ4Aiur wrote: Why is everyone saying ryung is good... any match reference? cause i dont like he is that good
Here we go with this crap, First, his performance in the GSTL2 where he was crucial to their success winning it. Plus the fact he is even in the up and down matches.
He's very good but this overhyping because of what Artosis says is always hilarious to see on TL.
HongUn and MC have proven that they deserve Code S just as much if not more.
On May 10 2011 20:27 hi im new wrote: he nexus'd with 1gate and 1 robo and constantly built probes while delaying his gates quite a lot
no he didn't lol, he went 3gate with 1gas, he scouted the front with a probe and saw pure marine + a wall at which point he dropped a robo, and after that he finally dropped a nexus...
===
Ryung's banshee gets to MC's base and cloaks about 5 seconds before an observer pops out
Ryung taking his nat and following up with a raven which is nice to see.
MC getting weapon ups, blink, and a lot more gateways/
On May 10 2011 20:21 Vitamins wrote: Wasn't really MC who won that battle. Ryung just didn't focus down Immortals with Banshees. What a shame. :|
It definitely seems like Ryung lost that battle more so than MC won it.
Yeah, not to hate on MC though, he was very patient and played very well. But Ryung did have the advantage, he just didn't utilize it enough. Would have liked to see a cloak instead of the extra banshee and get an observer snipe would have definitely been gg.
Cost too much gas
Too much Gas to cut a tank or banshee and then win the game? It would've been a better bet than what he did, his banshees were out for a really long time, he could've stayed cloaked foreeeever
On May 10 2011 20:21 Vitamins wrote: Wasn't really MC who won that battle. Ryung just didn't focus down Immortals with Banshees. What a shame. :|
It definitely seems like Ryung lost that battle more so than MC won it.
Yeah, not to hate on MC though, he was very patient and played very well. But Ryung did have the advantage, he just didn't utilize it enough. Would have liked to see a cloak instead of the extra banshee and get an observer snipe would have definitely been gg.
Cost too much gas
Too much Gas to cut a tank or banshee and then win the game? It would've been a better bet than what he did, his banshees were out for a really long time, he could've stayed cloaked foreeeever
On May 10 2011 20:37 Curu wrote: Wow, MC is so good at sniping Ghosts with Feedback...Tastosis said it was on Medivacs but he actually killed like 6 Ghosts with his Feedbacks.
Wow, didn't see that on the LQ stream. Good catch.
On May 10 2011 20:36 PeggyHill wrote: Is this game with the new patch?
nope the korean patch will be live on thursday, that's why all the games on thursday with mvp and bomber were moved to wednesday. MC rolling like expected.
MC's battle micro is insane. He was sniping ghosts while they were running in to EMP. And pushing the MMM into a corner... DEMOLITION. That's what that was.
On May 10 2011 20:39 Dommk wrote: Damn, I want to make a gif of that engagement, that was so well executed
Pretty normal to me, just forcefields blocking Terran from moving in
no, its not. The battle happens like in 5 secs. You have to spread your army out, feedback ghost by click them one by one, move in with your stalkers after your zealots has charged. Then you need to storm and FF. MC keep his units in perfect formation, thats why all of his sentries are in range for perfect FFs. Seems easy while you only watching, its actually require alot of practice and skills to execute well.
On May 10 2011 20:39 Dommk wrote: Damn, I want to make a gif of that engagement, that was so well executed
Pretty normal to me, just forcefields blocking Terran from moving in
Eh ? didnt you see the position he put his army in before he takes out the CC ? not including FBing ghosts and PSing the front to keep M&M ball out of range then merge templars at the front to absorb dmg before engaging.
Don't think that's that surprising, wasn't an exciting game, just ended in a blaze of aoe with MC's late 2 base push.
That last engagement was pretty exciting for me...
That was my point, the last engagement was pretty exciting but the rest of the game wasn't exactly action packed or anything. Was just trying to speculate on why people might have voted a definitive no.
On May 10 2011 20:36 Damian wrote: Wow, why no EMPs Ryung ?????
It's called Feedback having longer range than EMP bro
Its the other way around, bro.
Feedback range is greater
No. I've seen some people say this in the thread before. Please read Liquidpedia to factcheck first: EMP range: 10 (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/EMP_Round) Feedback range: 9 (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Feedback)
I just looked on Liquidpedia (<3) and EMP has a range of 10 whilst feedback has 9. For some reason I always thought feedback range was greater. Well a lesson learn't
On May 10 2011 20:39 anatem wrote: so much for the idea that MC wasn't on the very top of his shit anymore.
He wasn't. He was traveling all around the world earning some money and showing his face to some foreigner fans. During that time he had basicly no time to practice, so people started to figure him out and to actually beat him. Hes back in Korea now and has time to practice. Lets see if he can go back to tearing nerds apart. I personally have no doubt about that. :-)
On May 10 2011 20:36 Damian wrote: Wow, why no EMPs Ryung ?????
It's called Feedback having longer range than EMP bro
Its the other way around, bro.
Feedback range is greater
No. I've seen some people say this in the thread before. Please read Liquidpedia to factcheck first: EMP range: 10 (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/EMP_Round) Feedback range: 9 (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Feedback)
Aite sorry my bad. I always had the impression that feedback has a better range because I seldomly fail to feedback Ghost before they could EMP.
On May 10 2011 20:39 anatem wrote: so much for the idea that MC wasn't on the very top of his shit anymore.
He wasn't. He was traveling all around the world earning some money and showing his face to some foreigner fans. During that time he had basicly no time to practice, so people started to figure him out and to actually beat him. Hes back in Korea now and has time to practice. Lets see if he can go back to tearing nerds apart. I personally have no doubt about that. :-)
MC was definitely getting fatigued from traveling and participating in so many tournaments. Hope to see him take a well-deserved break back in Korea.
On May 10 2011 20:39 anatem wrote: so much for the idea that MC wasn't on the very top of his shit anymore.
He wasn't. He was traveling all around the world earning some money and showing his face to some foreigner fans. During that time he had basicly no time to practice, so people started to figure him out and to actually beat him. Hes back in Korea now and has time to practice. Lets see if he can go back to tearing nerds apart. I personally have no doubt about that. :-)
pretty good point here. I think he won all of the LIVE tourney that he traveled to outside of Korean.
On May 10 2011 20:39 Dommk wrote: Damn, I want to make a gif of that engagement, that was so well executed
Pretty normal to me, just forcefields blocking Terran from moving in
no, its not. The battle happens like in 5 secs. You have to spread your army out, feedback ghost by click them one by one, move in with your stalkers after your zealots has charged. Then you need to storm and FF. MC keep his units in perfect formation, thats why all of his sentries are in range for perfect FFs. Seems easy while you only watching, its actually require alot of practice and skills to execute well.
Yeah, I think you have to play Protoss to appreciate it.
That was not normal, I don't think I could ever do something like that so quickly. Perfect FF's, perfect Storms and Feedbacks, Perfect formation. He was controlling 3 different groups of units on 3 different hotkeys with 4 different spells.
Pulling Zealots in and out, Blinking Stalkers, casting feedbacks and Psi-storms whilst keeping the Zealot/Sentry/Stalker in formation then follow up with FF's. That is soo much going on, he just out classed Ryoung who really only had to worry about EMP's.
On May 10 2011 20:42 ClaudiusP wrote: I just looked on Liquidpedia (<3) and EMP has a range of 10 whilst feedback has 9. For some reason I always thought feedback range was greater. Well a lesson learn't
Probably because on liquidpedia they measure range by the edge of the AOE whereas blizzard state the range as the centre of the AOE so if you go by blizzard it would seem less but it isnt.
On May 10 2011 20:39 Dommk wrote: Damn, I want to make a gif of that engagement, that was so well executed
Pretty normal to me, just forcefields blocking Terran from moving in
no, its not. The battle happens like in 5 secs. You have to spread your army out, feedback ghost by click them one by one, move in with your stalkers after your zealots has charged. Then you need to storm and FF. MC keep his units in perfect formation, thats why all of his sentries are in range for perfect FFs. Seems easy while you only watching, its actually require alot of practice and skills to execute well.
Yeah, I think you have to play Protoss to appreciate it.
That was not normal, I don't think I could ever do something like that so quickly. Perfect FF's, perfect Storms and Feedbacks, Perfect formation. He was controlling 3 different groups of units on 3 different hotkeys.
Pulling Zealots in and out, Blinking Stalkers, casting feedbacks and Psi-storms whilst keeping the Zealot/Sentry/Stalker in formation then follow up with FF's. That is soo much going on, he just out classed Ryoung when he only had to worry about EMP's.
I play Zerg and I must admit that Storm+Feedback on the medivac was insane. Plus the forcefield usage is jaw-dropping as usual. Despite me being a Foreigner > Korean person I gotta say MC is incredibly scary
On May 10 2011 20:36 Damian wrote: Wow, why no EMPs Ryung ?????
It's called Feedback having longer range than EMP bro
Its the other way around, bro.
Feedback range is greater
No. I've seen some people say this in the thread before. Please read Liquidpedia to factcheck first: EMP range: 10 (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/EMP_Round) Feedback range: 9 (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Feedback)
Aite sorry my bad. I always had the impression that feedback has a better range because I seldomly fail to feedback Ghost before they could EMP.
im pretty sure it counts the splash as well, if u just click emp on ht (so hes in center of aoe) it will hit from 8 range
Don't think that's that surprising, wasn't an exciting game, just ended in a blaze of aoe with MC's late 2 base push.
MC wins most of his games with 2 base pushes
With 2-base pushes? MC wins because he outmicros his opponent so badly that he can simply win right then and there. He likely didn't intend on finishing off Ryung when he did, but he saw that he was able to feedback almost every Ghost and Medivac, saw the opportunity to end it, and took it. MC expands if he doesn't kill his opponent outright on the first push.
On May 10 2011 20:39 anatem wrote: so much for the idea that MC wasn't on the very top of his shit anymore.
He wasn't. He was traveling all around the world earning some money and showing his face to some foreigner fans. During that time he had basicly no time to practice, so people started to figure him out and to actually beat him. Hes back in Korea now and has time to practice. Lets see if he can go back to tearing nerds apart. I personally have no doubt about that. :-)
ye that's pretty much what i said :-)
this whole 'Mc is slumping' thing was caused by exactly what you said. MC reminding people today what's up when he takes shit seriously as opposed to flying around the world cashing in on donations :D
Not to take anything from MCs control, I mean noone can dispute his FF placing, but feedback's AI helps a lot since you can click on the minimap and it will autotarget the closest visible mana unit, in this case the ghosts. Even if he feedbacked a medivac, it's still better than getting emp-ed.
On May 10 2011 20:49 Bliznako wrote: Not to take anything from MCs control, I mean noone can dispute his FF placing, but feedback's AI helps a lot since you can click on the minimap and it will autotarget the closest mana unit, in this case the ghosts. Even if he feedbacked a medivac, it's still better than getting emp-ed.
No, I tested this with a friend - you need to be pixel perfect.
Well, you can't accuse HongUn of being incapable of macro games. He totally outplayed Jinro last season with Pheonix harass in a macro game last season
On May 10 2011 20:49 Bliznako wrote: Not to take anything from MCs control, I mean noone can dispute his FF placing, but feedback's AI helps a lot since you can click on the minimap and it will autotarget the closest visible mana unit, in this case the ghosts. Even if he feedbacked a medivac, it's still better than getting emp-ed.
jesus christ this is a myth and anyone who has tested it knows it's bs what you're saying
On May 10 2011 20:49 Bliznako wrote: Not to take anything from MCs control, I mean noone can dispute his FF placing, but feedback's AI helps a lot since you can click on the minimap and it will autotarget the closest visible mana unit, in this case the ghosts. Even if he feedbacked a medivac, it's still better than getting emp-ed.
On May 10 2011 20:49 Bliznako wrote: Not to take anything from MCs control, I mean noone can dispute his FF placing, but feedback's AI helps a lot since you can click on the minimap and it will autotarget the closest visible mana unit, in this case the ghosts. Even if he feedbacked a medivac, it's still better than getting emp-ed.
Map has to be very small for it to work, you have to click the minimap perfectly, it is harder hitting the right pixel over and over than doing it manually.
On May 10 2011 20:51 0ne wrote: Slayers players not that good in TvP, maybe Huk has a chance vs MMA.
Yea...well, MC ist a boss in TvP. HongUn is a solid player, too. HuK on the other side...had not shown many convincing games. I think he doesnt stand a chance against MMA, but he could potentially proof me wrong, maybe he got better than he was back in the Group Stage. We will see.
MC's 2-0's Ryungs god aweful TvP and people are screaming about how hes still the best etc. Its as ridiculous as those people talking about MC slumping recently because he lost to some amazing European players.
On May 10 2011 20:49 Bliznako wrote: Not to take anything from MCs control, I mean noone can dispute his FF placing, but feedback's AI helps a lot since you can click on the minimap and it will autotarget the closest visible mana unit, in this case the ghosts. Even if he feedbacked a medivac, it's still better than getting emp-ed.
On May 10 2011 20:50 Ethan7 wrote: Ryung is not S-class material. An S class player has to be good in all 3 matchups.
Like InCa?
I dont think InCa has a bad matchup. Or at least we have not seen his PvZ capabilities. Most of his opponents were protosses and terrans.
If by no bad matchups you mean he's extremely good at 1 basing, which takes care of PvT and PvP, then you're right..
I meant exactly that. Consistent wins against terrans and protosses regardless of build orders ( could be or all -ins) still shows hes performing well in that matchup.
On May 10 2011 20:53 Huckleuro wrote: Ryung's TvP is absolutely dreadful.
MC's 2-0's Ryungs god aweful TvP and people are screaming about how hes still the best etc. Its as ridiculous as those people talking about MC slumping recently because he lost to some amazing European players.
God. Shut up.
I'm fairly confident Ryung is better than Thorzain, and regardless your statement is just as arbitrary as the ones you are ridiculing
On May 10 2011 20:53 Huckleuro wrote: Ryung's TvP is absolutely dreadful.
MC's 2-0's Ryungs god aweful TvP and people are screaming about how hes still the best etc. Its as ridiculous as those people talking about MC slumping recently because he lost to some amazing European players.
God. Shut up.
I'm fairly confident Ryung is better than Thorzain, and regardless your statement is just as arbitrary as the ones you are ridiculing
On May 10 2011 20:39 anatem wrote: so much for the idea that MC wasn't on the very top of his shit anymore.
He wasn't. He was traveling all around the world earning some money and showing his face to some foreigner fans. During that time he had basicly no time to practice, so people started to figure him out and to actually beat him. Hes back in Korea now and has time to practice. Lets see if he can go back to tearing nerds apart. I personally have no doubt about that. :-)
ye that's pretty much what i said :-)
this whole 'Mc is slumping' thing was caused by exactly what you said. MC reminding people today what's up when he takes shit seriously as opposed to flying around the world cashing in on donations :D
Good to see some MC fanboys like me, after reading so much hate the last few weeks :-)
I am sad for slayers though. Really hope Ryung can pull through.
On May 10 2011 20:53 Huckleuro wrote: Ryung's TvP is absolutely dreadful.
MC's 2-0's Ryungs god aweful TvP and people are screaming about how hes still the best etc. Its as ridiculous as those people talking about MC slumping recently because he lost to some amazing European players.
God. Shut up.
I'm fairly confident Ryung is better than Thorzain, and regardless your statement is just as arbitrary as the ones you are ridiculing
Thorzain only participates in TSL I think. Not sure but yeah he is pouring his heart out in practicing for the TSL so yeah with sufficient practice, any player could pack a huge punch.
HongUn is such a weird player. He doesn't seem to have the same mechanics as most code S players but he does these funky builds that win him enough games to stay competitive.
From what I can see, Ryung does not have an endgame plan. He's planning to rely on his mechanics and slowly carved out a win. TvT its possible not so for TvP and TvZ. You need a solid plan. You cannot survive S-League by doing just that. Just my opinion.
Many people have the misconception that HongUn only cheeses, when he's actually quite versatile - he simply mixes it up a lot, but people always remember the cheese more than the macro games when it comes to players.
On May 10 2011 20:54 namedplayer wrote: i dont think ryung is code s material. at least hongun is better player
Yeah, HongUn is much better. People just overhyping Ryung as usual.
Overhyping someone who make it to code A, (code B was stacked as hell this time). Taking down 3 players in code A and beasting in GSTL. you are kidding right?
On May 10 2011 20:54 namedplayer wrote: i dont think ryung is code s material. at least hongun is better player
Yeah, HongUn is much better. People just overhyping Ryung as usual.
Overhyping someone who make it to code A, (code B was stacked as hell this time). Taking down 3 players in code A and beasting in GSTL. you are kidding right?
HongUn is just playing way more solid than he is though.
I really really feel terrans need to mix in blue flame hellions as a mineral sink instead of marines when they're against heavy chargelot compositions.
WOW WTF, I was about to turn off the stream and go to sleep as Hongun was walking up with that army....Sick sick play by Ryung with a perfect spread and sick emps on those templar. Any more storms and that fight was over.
On May 10 2011 21:05 MrProb wrote: Hongun's FFs just help'd Ryung's army out lol
No it didn't. When he was leaning against the forcefields the Colossus were hitting the maximum units possible with each hit. The Zealots then wrapped around the other side pinning him
Funny how HongUn goes from very nice unit control in the first engagement, keeping stalkers and zealots moving seperately, darting in and out sniping vikings, to almost 1A'ing the second as soon as he has to think about landing psi-storms lol.
On May 10 2011 20:39 anatem wrote: so much for the idea that MC wasn't on the very top of his shit anymore.
He wasn't. He was traveling all around the world earning some money and showing his face to some foreigner fans. During that time he had basicly no time to practice, so people started to figure him out and to actually beat him. Hes back in Korea now and has time to practice. Lets see if he can go back to tearing nerds apart. I personally have no doubt about that. :-)
ye that's pretty much what i said :-)
this whole 'Mc is slumping' thing was caused by exactly what you said. MC reminding people today what's up when he takes shit seriously as opposed to flying around the world cashing in on donations :D
Good to see some MC fanboys like me, after reading so much hate the last few weeks :-)
I am sad for slayers though. Really hope Ryung can pull through.
well i do respect this guy a whole lot, for both his skills, and personality, and he's been my favourite SC2 player since between open seasons 2 and 3
i wouldn't go so far as adopting the badge of fanboyism though, since it's not like i'd go full throttle on bias in an argumentation over his flaws if the arguments are solid. i'd say i'm a combination of fan and ANTI-anti-fan
i just hate the many forms of retarded arguments for or against players that usually come up in bloigs and most annoyingly in LR threads, that are usually the result of fanboyism, a tendency for blaming race imbalance for player performances, and ignorance of matchups and/or the ebbs and flows of a player's career, and i mean this for any player.
-- now on the match at hand, i want ryung to go through, i love seeing new solid talent shining through, and i do think he's the more talented player and with the stronger training. he might lack the experience of hongun, but he should still be in code S judging from recent form these two showed lately
On May 10 2011 20:54 namedplayer wrote: i dont think ryung is code s material. at least hongun is better player
Yeah, HongUn is much better. People just overhyping Ryung as usual.
Overhyping someone who make it to code A, (code B was stacked as hell this time). Taking down 3 players in code A and beasting in GSTL. you are kidding right?
hyping is different than over hyping. I agree that he has some overhype to him.
On May 10 2011 21:06 Asha` wrote: Funny how HongUn goes from very nice unit control in the first engagement, keeping stalkers and zealots moving seperately, darting in and out sniping vikings, to almost 1A'ing the second as soon as he has to think about landing psi-storms lol.
Kind of shows you just how good MC's control is by comparison. Really requires some great multitasking abilities to get positioning, FFs, Feedback, and Storms off all at the same time.
On May 10 2011 21:09 MrProb wrote: after playing against one of the best micro player like MC, this huge battle engagement against Hongun prolly look much slower for Ryung
Its amazing the difference hongun is visibly slower.
hmm ryung had way better engagements and army control in battles.
tbh, for those that were saying HongUn is a better player, he hasn't shown he's better at all today. nevertheless, this game isn't over yet so maybe HongUn can get back
On May 10 2011 21:14 xiaoW wrote: hmm ryung had way better engagements and army control in battles.
tbh, for those that were saying HongUn is a better player, he hasn't shown he's better at all today. nevertheless, this game isn't over yet so maybe HongUn can get back
HongUn played a way stronger early/mid game, got himsself in great position, and then just lost it.
HongUn lost because he lost the HT vs. Ghost micro battle, IMO. For some reason he decided to storm the ghosts in that last big battle... I don't really know why. Were they cloaked?
On May 10 2011 21:16 HolyArrow wrote: HongUn lost because he lost the HT vs. Ghost micro battle, IMO. For some reason he decided to storm the ghosts in that last big battle... I don't really know why. Were they cloaked?
Yep, ryung killed the observer aswell. Terran should never lose a ghost vs templar battle, scan and take out the observers + ghosts with cloak + longer range on emp.
Yeah agree with Artosis, HoungUn is probably the better player overall. I was waiting for HongUn to get knocked out, but after that game, I'm conflicted. Feel like both of them deserve the spot
On May 10 2011 21:14 xiaoW wrote: hmm ryung had way better engagements and army control in battles.
tbh, for those that were saying HongUn is a better player, he hasn't shown he's better at all today. nevertheless, this game isn't over yet so maybe HongUn can get back
HongUn played a way stronger early/mid game, got himsself in great position, and then just lost it.
Yep his micro killed him, he almost solely win with his macro tho lol
On May 10 2011 21:16 HolyArrow wrote: HongUn lost because he lost the HT vs. Ghost micro battle, IMO. For some reason he decided to storm the ghosts in that last big battle... I don't really know why. Were they cloaked?
They were, and Ryung sniped the observer just before engaging also.
On May 10 2011 21:16 HolyArrow wrote: HongUn lost because he lost the HT vs. Ghost micro battle, IMO. For some reason he decided to storm the ghosts in that last big battle... I don't really know why. Were they cloaked?
Yep, ryung killed the observer aswell.
Ah, okay. I've theorycrafted that situation before as a Toss, nice seeing Ts actually do that now. It's bad times >_<
On May 10 2011 21:13 aScle wrote: i was always wondering, if a viking lands does its attack benefit from ground or air upgrades?
I've been thinking about the same thing. I have a feeling its ground upgrades when landed, as it's a totally different attack style.
The Terran ship upgrades specifically state that they're for weapons built at a starport, so when a viking lands, its attack benefits from the ship upgrades, rather than the vehicle upgrades.
So, basically, Terran has 3 sets of upgrades, armor and weapons for barracks, factories, and starports.
On May 10 2011 21:16 HolyArrow wrote: HongUn lost because he lost the HT vs. Ghost micro battle, IMO. For some reason he decided to storm the ghosts in that last big battle... I don't really know why. Were they cloaked?
Yeah they were cloaked. Ryung sniped all obs with scans to get his emps off
On May 10 2011 20:53 Huckleuro wrote: Ryung's TvP is absolutely dreadful.
MC's 2-0's Ryungs god aweful TvP and people are screaming about how hes still the best etc. Its as ridiculous as those people talking about MC slumping recently because he lost to some amazing European players.
God. Shut up.
I'm fairly confident Ryung is better than Thorzain, and regardless your statement is just as arbitrary as the ones you are ridiculing
How can you possibly say that Ryungs TvP is better than ThorZain'? There is absolutely 0 basis for that argument. The only thing we have to go on is Ryungs performance against protoss' and thorzains performance against protoss... Thorzain beat MC in legit games, Ryung got embarrassed whilst trying to 1base cheese. Thorzain produced tighter builds and better micro. lol
My point originally was that people overreact horribly. MC wins an up and down game and hes the best in the world again? Shortly after losing a TSL game when people claimed hes a tilting slump dog?
On May 10 2011 21:16 HolyArrow wrote: HongUn lost because he lost the HT vs. Ghost micro battle, IMO. For some reason he decided to storm the ghosts in that last big battle... I don't really know why. Were they cloaked?
Yep, ryung killed the observer aswell.
Ah, okay. I've theorycrafted that situation before as a Toss, nice seeing Ts actually do that now. It's bad times >_<
Protoss really needs more observers endgame on their army/or around their army. Those cloaked Ghost are becoming a game winner for Terran.
On May 10 2011 20:53 Huckleuro wrote: Ryung's TvP is absolutely dreadful.
MC's 2-0's Ryungs god aweful TvP and people are screaming about how hes still the best etc. Its as ridiculous as those people talking about MC slumping recently because he lost to some amazing European players.
God. Shut up.
I'm fairly confident Ryung is better than Thorzain, and regardless your statement is just as arbitrary as the ones you are ridiculing
How can you possibly say that Ryungs TvP is better than ThorZain'? There is absolutely 0 basis for that argument. The only thing we have to go on is Ryungs performance against protoss' and thorzains performance against protoss... Thorzain beat MC in legit games, Ryung got embarrassed whilst trying to 1base cheese. Thorzain produced tighter builds and better micro. lol
My point originally was that people overreact horribly. MC wins an up and down game and hes the best in the world again? Shortly after losing a TSL game when people claimed hes a tilting slump dog?
MC is awesome, the end.
Ryung's TvT is probably better than Thorzain's, but Thorzain almost definitely has better TvP. TvZ, not sure, haven't seen enough of either's.
On May 10 2011 21:16 HolyArrow wrote: HongUn lost because he lost the HT vs. Ghost micro battle, IMO. For some reason he decided to storm the ghosts in that last big battle... I don't really know why. Were they cloaked?
Yep, ryung killed the observer aswell.
Ah, okay. I've theorycrafted that situation before as a Toss, nice seeing Ts actually do that now. It's bad times >_<
Protoss really needs more observers endgame on their army/or around their army. Those cloaked Ghost are becoming a game winner for Terran.
ah I said the same thing I didnt realise he sniped the observer so he had no choice. Nice play by ryung then. Also probably why MC had so many observers.
On May 10 2011 21:15 spacemonkeyy wrote: Just build MMM all game long, no worries mauraders kill buildings so quick
MMM and vikings and ghosts (5 units) vs Sentries, stalkers, zealots, DT, HT and colossi (6 units)
True I wasn't meaning to QQ, good game I Always think though the speed mauraders kill buildings is kinda retarded though, just melt nexus in less than 2 seconds it seems. There is no great counter to maurader, a few soft counters, perhaps this is the role of the carrier in the late game with hong un having all those excess minerals quick tech switch
Well it's nice that there talking with Blizzard to try and avoid the patches. The finals is PvZ so I'm curious how the 3 gate sentry expand works out sicne sentry will produce a bit faster so the gateways might be idle for a bit.
On May 10 2011 20:53 Huckleuro wrote: Ryung's TvP is absolutely dreadful.
MC's 2-0's Ryungs god aweful TvP and people are screaming about how hes still the best etc. Its as ridiculous as those people talking about MC slumping recently because he lost to some amazing European players.
God. Shut up.
I'm fairly confident Ryung is better than Thorzain, and regardless your statement is just as arbitrary as the ones you are ridiculing
How can you possibly say that Ryungs TvP is better than ThorZain'? There is absolutely 0 basis for that argument. The only thing we have to go on is Ryungs performance against protoss' and thorzains performance against protoss... Thorzain beat MC in legit games, Ryung got embarrassed whilst trying to 1base cheese. Thorzain produced tighter builds and better micro. lol
My point originally was that people overreact horribly. MC wins an up and down game and hes the best in the world again? Shortly after losing a TSL game when people claimed hes a tilting slump dog?
MC is awesome, the end.
I absoluely agree with your point about people overreacting and drawing conclusions based on too little data, but we haven't seen Thorzain play all that much and he hasn't performed yet outside TSL. He certainly looked very impressive in pretty much every TSL game, but I don't think we've seen enough of him to know if he performs that well consistently. Likewise, I'm not sure if Ryung's TvP is "awful".
On May 10 2011 21:15 spacemonkeyy wrote: Just build MMM all game long, no worries mauraders kill buildings so quick
MMM and vikings and ghosts (5 units) vs Sentries, stalkers, zealots, DT, HT and colossi (6 units)
True I wasn't meaning to QQ, good game I Always think though the speed mauraders kill buildings is kinda retarded though, just melt nexus in less than 2 seconds it seems. There is no great counter to maurader, a few soft counters, perhaps this is the role of the carrier in the late game with hong un having all those excess minerals quick tech switch
Immortals, have you seen how fast immortals kill buildings?
I still stand by the fact Protoss players don't make enough immortals against a marauder heavy terran. They carry on getting collosus which in all honesty are not that great against the marauder and it's the reason we make them instead of marines. Storm/Collosus splash > Marines, at least marauders kind of survive.
On May 10 2011 21:21 Vitamins wrote: What is he expecting to do with phoenix? Pick up marauders or future tanks?
Pick him apart the same way he did vs Jinro?
It's an opening HongUn has used tremendously well in the past.
Phoenixes are useful for many things. Whittling down little isolated groups of marines, killing scvs and sniping MULES, killing scvs that are building stuff to throw off the opponents rhythm since their building is delayed, scouting, lifting tanks, etc.
Phoenixes are great if you can avoid outright dying to a big push.
On May 10 2011 20:54 namedplayer wrote: i dont think ryung is code s material. at least hongun is better player
Yeah, HongUn is much better. People just overhyping Ryung as usual.
Overhyping someone who make it to code A, (code B was stacked as hell this time). Taking down 3 players in code A and beasting in GSTL. you are kidding right?
Compared to HongUn who has much better achievements? Yeah.
I still stand by the fact Protoss players don't make enough immortals against a marauder heavy terran. They carry on getting collosus which in all honesty are not that great against the marauder and it's the reason we make them instead of marines. Storm/Collosus splash > Marines, at least marauders kind of survive.
The problem is the small range of immortals hard to get them into battle, then as soon as terran adds in some marines counter pretty well and ghost hard counters.
On May 10 2011 21:21 syllogism wrote: I absoluely agree with your point about people overreacting and drawing conclusions based on too little data, but we haven't seen Thorzain play all that much and he hasn't performed yet outside TSL. He certainly looked very impressive in pretty much every TSL game, but I don't think we've seen enough of him to know if he performs that well consistently.
Thorzain was at The Gathering and did okay, losing to NightEnd in the quarter finals. It's worth pointing out though he didn't actually play any 'known' players before the NightEnd game.
Feel bad for Ryung, this was a sad group for me since I'm a fan of all 3 players.... But Ryung is good, he'll get his shot again and next time he'll get grouped with Rain or something
Terrible indecision from Ryung, Hongun had about 4 sentries and 2 zealots (+ three phoenixes) against a sizeable MM ball but Ryung just ran around in between the two bases, making only marines, while Hongun made 4 gateways and a perfect mix of zealots, sentries and stalkers and came to kill him.
Well Ryung missed that timing when Hongun had only a sentry a zealot and could easily pressured his base. Instead went for factory build and didn't build any turrets against those phoenixes. Then threw away his ground army for no reason.
On May 10 2011 21:26 ShootingStars wrote: hongun being boring as usual lol
Psh, a Phoenix opening and it's still boring? Cry more, you're hating for the sake of hating. What, does he have to do a Mothership rush for it to be interesting for you?
On May 10 2011 21:25 Vitamins wrote: Really bad idea for Ryung to engage against a zillion sentries with max energy ...
Ryung didn't engage. He sent 1 rine in to see, saw that army then decided to retreat
HongUn smelled the blood in the water and went into super boss shark mode, chased him down, sniped 2 marauders with his stalkers, then forced the issue with forcefields. phoenixes lifting from the back.
On May 10 2011 21:15 spacemonkeyy wrote: Just build MMM all game long, no worries mauraders kill buildings so quick
MMM and vikings and ghosts (5 units) vs Sentries, stalkers, zealots, DT, HT and colossi (6 units)
True I wasn't meaning to QQ, good game I Always think though the speed mauraders kill buildings is kinda retarded though, just melt nexus in less than 2 seconds it seems. There is no great counter to maurader, a few soft counters, perhaps this is the role of the carrier in the late game with hong un having all those excess minerals quick tech switch
Immortals, have you seen how fast immortals kill buildings?
I still stand by the fact Protoss players don't make enough immortals against a marauder heavy terran. They carry on getting collosus which in all honesty are not that great against the marauder and it's the reason we make them instead of marines. Storm/Collosus splash > Marines, at least marauders kind of survive.
Immortals dont come out of warpgates and are a lot slower but we have void rays that kill buildings fast too, no point trying to have races exactly the same. I think its good every race has a scary unit. Id rather that than impotent battles.
On May 10 2011 21:25 Vitamins wrote: Really bad idea for Ryung to engage against a zillion sentries with max energy ...
Ryung didn't engage. He sent 1 rine in to see, saw that army then decided to retreat
HongUn smelled the blood in the water and went into super boss shark mode, chased him down, sniped 2 marauders with his stalkers, then forced the issue with forcefields. phoenixes lifting from the back.
Ryung stimmed and engaged when reinforcements arrived, then HongUn destroyed him with forcefields.
It's arguable that Ryung should have just stimmed and fled back to his nat, he was about to have medivacs on the way and sacrificing a bit of health to save the bulk of your army seems like a decent trade when compared to just dying =p
On May 10 2011 21:28 zerious wrote: There are 2 segments tomorrow?
Yes, they brought the last 2 groups forward a day because they didn't want to risk Blizzard fucking them around with the patch timing on thursday
On May 10 2011 21:25 Vitamins wrote: Really bad idea for Ryung to engage against a zillion sentries with max energy ...
Ryung didn't engage. He sent 1 rine in to see, saw that army then decided to retreat
HongUn smelled the blood in the water and went into super boss shark mode, chased him down, sniped 2 marauders with his stalkers, then forced the issue with forcefields. phoenixes lifting from the back.
he did engaged the army when his main joined his reinforcement, he stimmed and turned around
On May 10 2011 21:27 Bluedraqy wrote: I think one advantage Nightend might have had, is that he knows the inside and outside of Thorzain's build, as they probably practised a lot together for Thorzains match against MC?
I imagine they both know each other really well so it works both ways. I think where Thorzain is concerned he obvious has something about him but he has it all to prove, he just as easilly be 'that guy who beat MC one time' as he could be a top Euro Terran.
Now he's on his mouze he should be going to Dreamhack/MLG/future NASL's so we'll know a lot more in the future.
On May 10 2011 21:25 Vitamins wrote: Really bad idea for Ryung to engage against a zillion sentries with max energy ...
Ryung didn't engage. He sent 1 rine in to see, saw that army then decided to retreat
HongUn smelled the blood in the water and went into super boss shark mode, chased him down, sniped 2 marauders with his stalkers, then forced the issue with forcefields. phoenixes lifting from the back.
Were you watching? Ryung DID engage. In between their bases. Sure, a couple marauders were being picked off and he'd still lose a few marines from the stalkers, but he DID engage when they met up with marine reinforcements, which was a horrible idea.
I have no idea, but GSL has suddenly gotten very stale for me. Just this week only... I have no idea why. Maybe it was the two days of (mostly) bad games.
Oh and maybe it could also be because the HQ stream has been lagging big time. (Yesterday happened a couple of time, today it was almost unwatchable).
On May 10 2011 21:37 flodeskum wrote: Barely any balance whining in a day where the only zerg player lost and 2 protoss players won. Things are looking up for TL LR threads \e/
The zerg is terrible and was expected to lose and one of the protoss is awesome and was expected to win. Don't get your hopes up too high
I expected Ryung to make it into code S but it looks like his confidence is not there. It all started when he said he would get 3-0'd against Bomber. He should have more confidence in his ability. Ryung has played scared since the Bomber game. He should have at least had game 1 against MC.
I think I'm going back to being an MMA fan until Ryung gets his shit together.
On May 10 2011 21:43 bucckevin wrote: I expected Ryung to make it into code S but it looks like his confidence is not there. He should have at least had game 1 against MC. Ryung played scared.
I think Ryung's weak match up is vP. His games vs Creator weren't very impressive considering how highly rated he is. (but he did beat Yonghwa in a fairly uneventful TvP in the GSTL)
It also could be a little bit of nerves. I was honestly a little bit disappointed by his games this GSL, compared to what he showed in the GSTL. Even against Alive he looked pretty sloppy, where else his TvT GSTL games he looked extremely solid. Made very few mistakes and seemed fairly consistent.
On May 10 2011 21:37 flodeskum wrote: Barely any balance whining in a day where the only zerg player lost and 2 protoss players won. Things are looking up for TL LR threads \e/
I don't think anyone expected check to stay in code S anyway.
Well I didn't want Check to go down... but it wasn't looking good when he was going to go against a terran player who has a good win ratio in TvZ. I'm just glad Hongun stayed in Code S.
On May 10 2011 23:50 Irrelevant wrote: Poor group D, all 3 of them could make the RO4 in Code S
lol wtf?
Hongun made Ro4 a while ago, not in Code S though... and why would Ryung be able to if he can't even make it out of the group? He got far in Code A because he's a TvT specialist and Code A is filled with Terrans, where Code S is a bit more balanced.
All things considered, Hongun and Ryung couldn't make it past Ro16...
On May 10 2011 23:50 Irrelevant wrote: Poor group D, all 3 of them could make the RO4 in Code S
lol wtf?
Hongun made Ro4 a while ago, not in Code S though... and why would Ryung be able to if he can't even make it out of the group? He got far in Code A because he's a TvT specialist and Code A is filled with Terrans, where Code S is a bit more balanced.
All things considered, Hongun and Ryung couldn't make it past Ro16...
Noticing the MC games are highly recommended, so I will have to check out the vods of those. Hopefully its not just MC hype and excited yes votes since he wins.
On May 10 2011 23:50 Irrelevant wrote: Poor group D, all 3 of them could make the RO4 in Code S
lol wtf?
Hongun made Ro4 a while ago, not in Code S though... and why would Ryung be able to if he can't even make it out of the group? He got far in Code A because he's a TvT specialist and Code A is filled with Terrans, where Code S is a bit more balanced.
All things considered, Hongun and Ryung couldn't make it past Ro16...
HongUn's made it to the Ro4 in Season 3, and Ro8 in March and Season 1. He's always overlooked though, but his fans know that he's actually been a pretty solid Code S player
On May 10 2011 21:28 Yang Wenli wrote: Well Ryung missed that timing when Hongun had only a sentry a zealot and could easily pressured his base. Instead went for factory build and didn't build any turrets against those phoenixes. Then threw away his ground army for no reason.
On May 10 2011 21:28 Yang Wenli wrote: Well Ryung missed that timing when Hongun had only a sentry a zealot and could easily pressured his base. Instead went for factory build and didn't build any turrets against those phoenixes. Then threw away his ground army for no reason.
dude unfortunately ryung had no maphack.
Hopefully he can figure out how Flash hacks his games and apply it in sc2. I look forward to seeing more from Ryung.
Not sure how much A or S matters this season when all A and S will participate in the $200K 2011 GSL Super Tournament next. This tournament starts in a couple weeks and has $95,000 first place.
Obviously if an A did well or won it I can't see them being in A again.
Man i REALLY really wanna check out the MCvsRyung vods and the Nestea ones but i dont have a credit card, Isnt there any other fing way like paysafe card or smth... GOMTV wtf??
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lJxse.jpg)
2011 LG Cinema 3D Global StarCraft II League May/Up and Down![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1988.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/gLhAN.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/951.jpg)
aLive < Tal'Darim Altar > ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xk4xf.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bmexf.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/j6x0x.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1860.jpg)
Check![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/957.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/640.jpg)
MC![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1901.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HDOSr.jpg)
