On April 15 2011 04:12 s031720 wrote: As far as the last game is concerned;
1. MC didnt hack the game. 2. It was a mirror match-up.
Thats all anyone needs to know. It was not unfair, not imba, not OP, not anything but a good read and an effective strategy to WIN! Thats how professionals play.
Welcome to the world of SPORTS where the name of the game is winning, not entertaining whiny little snobs. (although preferably both).
Edit; And if anyone think it was a coinflip, you simply dont understand metagaming. Dont ever start playing poker. Hint; If you want to be successful at higher levels, you play the player, not the game.
Ok I'm so close on snapping because I don't get people like the one above.
What person in his right mind does not know that Poker, Sports and Starcraft II is all about calculated risks? Ofcourse everyone knows this, nobody is arguing it. There are bigger and lesser calculated risks, and what makes me dislike the last game is that MC thought the risk of White-Ra scouting his cheese and winning outright was lesser than if MC just played the game outright and straightforward.
He knew this and he did it and he won. Yes. We know. Shut up about it.
That does still make me less inclined to liking MC, it makes me less inclined to PAY for events. We all know it's part of the game. We are still entitled to our own godamn opinions and stop telling everyone who thinks differently they are not entitled to their opinion. I paid for the event in difference to 99% of you anti-trolls so I am actually entitled to give feedback asmuch as I godamn wish.
What's with this attitude of people going: "Rofle kids think there's 'honour or deserving' in games there isn't lol it's about winning rofle" yeah and it's also about godamn entertainment. If it isn't entertaining then people wont buy it and it's easy defending these things, players and esports when you're not paying for it but stop kidding yourselves: Capitalism is all about demand and nobody would demand to much cheesy games. Yes it was just 1 game and yeah it's to be expected but it's you people who made this discussion psudo-philosophical. It will happen again, nobody argues that, but I can still think it was a bad move and nobody has the godamn right or power to tell me I should think otherwise just as I won't tell you people your points are not valid: I just don't agree.
Now please stop with these black and white arguments as if a person did not love that MC did what he did that person hates esports, bunnies and the world.
I will use CAPS. I feel ENTITLED to it. My other post was not directed to you. This one is.
Feel free to snap.IDont think anyone cares more about how you feel just because you payed to watch. You are just one person. You are not the ONLY one entitled to have an opinion, whether you payed entrance fee to that event or not. It is not worth more. Its not worth less. Again, you are just one person. You have expressed your opinion. Several times. Now let others express theirs.
As for paying for ESPORTS; You SHOULD have known SC2 enough by now that in a set of games, there WILL probably be cheese, there SHOULD probably be cheese if the players are experienced enough to change up their playstyle. Knowing this you still CHOOSE to pay, and Im assuming you probably hade a pretty good time for those 100SEK. You maye feel you are ENTITLED to complain about it; I may disagree. But im not so interested in that.
Im more interested in the PRINCIPLE that players should play to ENTERTAIN rather than to WIN because otherwise noone would pay to watch; or you are letting the viewers down. I dont agree. The players are not there for the viewers, they are there for themselves and their team. The audience are there for the players. The fact that they pay to watch the game does not give them right to make demands on HOW the game should be played other than to be kept within the rules.
In soccer greece won the European championshop with a 4-5-1 format and counters. Still we loved to watch, not because the games where ENTERTAINING, because it was a great STORY, the underdog taking on the soccer-elite of Europe. People payed to watch; and I am pretty sure that that tournament did not deter them from paying to watch in the future.
My point is; In the world of proffessional sports, you get respect by trying your hardest to win. SC2 is moving towards becoming an ESPORT, or may allready be one. Only when players play to WIN rather then to ENTERTAIN, SC2 will be regarded as a sport; and while the scene might loose some audience who prefer the wrestlingscene-like approach where its more about show than sport, it will gain so many more viewers who just want to see the game beeing played aswell as it can be, players taking eachother on trying to overcome the other with any avaiable means possible.
The MC/White-ra Set, including the fifth game, was well within the rules, and also well within the NORM of tournament gaming; cheesing once here and there is pretty standard. White-ra got punished for consistently playing risky starters; a lesson hopefully well learned.
The only thing I would agree with you on is that it was an anticlimax. Ofcourse it was. That happens in the world of sports. Often. That does not make it wrong. It does not make you entitled, for instance, to get your money back just because your favourite team lost 0-4. The risk of anticlimax but also the chance of epic unexpected greatness is what makes sports awesome to watch.
I find complaining about it petty and immature. But thats just me and my opinion. Im just one person. Just like you. But the diffrence between you and me is that I would GLADLY pay to see my favourite players trying their best in competition with others to win tournaments. You may not. I think that is YOUR loss, not the players, not the SC-scene and not mine. But thats just my opinion.
On April 15 2011 04:12 s031720 wrote: As far as the last game is concerned;
1. MC didnt hack the game. 2. It was a mirror match-up.
Thats all anyone needs to know. It was not unfair, not imba, not OP, not anything but a good read and an effective strategy to WIN! Thats how professionals play.
Welcome to the world of SPORTS where the name of the game is winning, not entertaining whiny little snobs. (although preferably both).
Edit; And if anyone think it was a coinflip, you simply dont understand metagaming. Dont ever start playing poker. Hint; If you want to be successful at higher levels, you play the player, not the game.
Ok I'm so close on snapping because I don't get people like the one above.
What person in his right mind does not know that Poker, Sports and Starcraft II is all about calculated risks? Ofcourse everyone knows this, nobody is arguing it. There are bigger and lesser calculated risks, and what makes me dislike the last game is that MC thought the risk of White-Ra scouting his cheese and winning outright was lesser than if MC just played the game outright and straightforward.
He knew this and he did it and he won. Yes. We know. Shut up about it.
That does still make me less inclined to liking MC, it makes me less inclined to PAY for events. We all know it's part of the game. We are still entitled to our own godamn opinions and stop telling everyone who thinks differently they are not entitled to their opinion. I paid for the event in difference to 99% of you anti-trolls so I am actually entitled to give feedback asmuch as I godamn wish.
What's with this attitude of people going: "Rofle kids think there's 'honour or deserving' in games there isn't lol it's about winning rofle" yeah and it's also about godamn entertainment. If it isn't entertaining then people wont buy it and it's easy defending these things, players and esports when you're not paying for it but stop kidding yourselves: Capitalism is all about demand and nobody would demand to much cheesy games. Yes it was just 1 game and yeah it's to be expected but it's you people who made this discussion psudo-philosophical. It will happen again, nobody argues that, but I can still think it was a bad move and nobody has the godamn right or power to tell me I should think otherwise just as I won't tell you people your points are not valid: I just don't agree.
Now please stop with these black and white arguments as if a person did not love that MC did what he did that person hates esports, bunnies and the world.
Certainly you're entitled to your opinion. However, opinions can be well supported or weakly supported - I'm sure you'd agree with that. If I was of the opinion that, say, MVP is a shitty player, I'd be entitled to it, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't appear to be full of shit because my reasons for my opinion, whatever they are, would likely look very weak and empty in light of MVP's achievements.
Here's my problem with your stance: You keep calling MC's final move a coinflip, when there has been proof from MC himself that it was far more calculated than a coinflip. The very use of the word downplays the thought and strategy that went into his decision to 2gate. That thought and strategy is not contestable. An opinion will not make that thought and strategy exist or cease to exist. It's a fact that MC's thought process that lead up to his decision to proxy was very logical - yet, people like you still call his final move a "coinflip", and all of your opinions seem to rest largely on how you believe it to be a "coinflip", which is obviously a very boring, risky, "dishonorable" move in your eyes.
Nothing is certain in SC2. The "gamesense" that professional players develop isn't some psychic phenomenon. It's merely the ability, on both a subconscious and conscious level, to figure out something about what an opponent's doing based on limited hints of information. What MC did was both use his gamesense throughout the previous 4 games, along with simply looking at past trends in WhiteRa's PvP, to make his decision. It was a very informed decision, and although you may call it a "coinflip", by that logic, anything could be considered a coinflip - for example, WhiteRa's simultaneous expand and Colossus teching in game 2. He pretty much said, "Well, I hope MC doesn't switch into a really aggressive attack right now," and MC didn't. Granted, WhiteRa used the information he gleaned from scouting MC to influence his decision to play very greedily, but that's pretty much the same thing as MC using the information he gleaned over 4 games and past PvPs that WhiteRa played to make his decision to proxy. Let's stop throwing the word "coinflip" around and save such a term with such a negative connotation for players who actually blindly all-in/play risky without any intelligent thought process to back it up.
With that out of the way, the only valid reason you could be criticizing MC is that the proxy 2gate was boring end to the series, which is certainly a valid opinion to have. However, I look at it in this light: MC, in that final game, played more intelligently than WhiteRa. All WhiteRa did was pretty much do the SAME opening over and over, to the point that by the time the final game rolled around, MC knew what he could do to get a free win since WhiteRa was being so predictable. On the other hand, MC was able to figure out WhiteRa and get that free win, thanks to his gamesense and acknowledging other trends in WhiteRa's past PvPs. Why are all the MC haters faulting the guy that played MORE intelligently? Why don't you place any blame on WhiteRa for not doing something as rudimentary as scouting his friggin' base for a proxy in PvP, or for doing the same opening to the point that he becomes predictable and susceptible to cheese? Are you seriously suggesting that MC shouldn't cheese when WhiteRa pretty much held up a big "Please cheese me for a free win since I do the same opening every time" sign? Given the arguments I've seen people like you make in the past, I doubt you'd be able to answer those questions, and instead opt to cover your ears and cry some more about how MC's proxy was boring and dishonorable, rather than acknowledging that plenty of the blame lies with WhiteRa for playing in such a way that a calculated cheese would be an autowin for his opponent. But if you do have answers to those questions, then I'd love to hear them.
On April 15 2011 04:12 s031720 wrote: As far as the last game is concerned;
1. MC didnt hack the game. 2. It was a mirror match-up.
Thats all anyone needs to know. It was not unfair, not imba, not OP, not anything but a good read and an effective strategy to WIN! Thats how professionals play.
Welcome to the world of SPORTS where the name of the game is winning, not entertaining whiny little snobs. (although preferably both).
Edit; And if anyone think it was a coinflip, you simply dont understand metagaming. Dont ever start playing poker. Hint; If you want to be successful at higher levels, you play the player, not the game.
Ok I'm so close on snapping because I don't get people like the one above.
What person in his right mind does not know that Poker, Sports and Starcraft II is all about calculated risks? Ofcourse everyone knows this, nobody is arguing it. There are bigger and lesser calculated risks, and what makes me dislike the last game is that MC thought the risk of White-Ra scouting his cheese and winning outright was lesser than if MC just played the game outright and straightforward.
He knew this and he did it and he won. Yes. We know. Shut up about it.
That does still make me less inclined to liking MC, it makes me less inclined to PAY for events. We all know it's part of the game. We are still entitled to our own godamn opinions and stop telling everyone who thinks differently they are not entitled to their opinion. I paid for the event in difference to 99% of you anti-trolls so I am actually entitled to give feedback asmuch as I godamn wish.
What's with this attitude of people going: "Rofle kids think there's 'honour or deserving' in games there isn't lol it's about winning rofle" yeah and it's also about godamn entertainment. If it isn't entertaining then people wont buy it and it's easy defending these things, players and esports when you're not paying for it but stop kidding yourselves: Capitalism is all about demand and nobody would demand to much cheesy games. Yes it was just 1 game and yeah it's to be expected but it's you people who made this discussion psudo-philosophical. It will happen again, nobody argues that, but I can still think it was a bad move and nobody has the godamn right or power to tell me I should think otherwise just as I won't tell you people your points are not valid: I just don't agree.
Now please stop with these black and white arguments as if a person did not love that MC did what he did that person hates esports, bunnies and the world.
I will use CAPS. I feel ENTITLED to it. My other post was not directed to you. This one is.
Feel free to snap. I dont think anyone cares more about how you feel just because you payed to watch. You are just one person. You are not the ONLY one entitled to have an opinion, whether you payed entrance fee to that event or not. It is not worth more. Its not worth less. Again, you are just one person. You have expressed your opinion. Several times. Now let others express theirs.
As for paying for ESPORTS; You SHOULD have known SC2 enough by now that in a set of games, there WILL probably be cheese, there SHOULD probably be cheese if the players are experienced enough to change up their playstyle. Knowing this you still CHOOSE to pay, and Im assuming you probably hade a pretty good time for those 100SEK so im not sure what you are complaining about (or if you are ENTITLED to complain) specifically about Dreamhack; but also im not so interested in that.
Im more interested in the PRINCIPLE that players should play to ENTERTAIN rather than to WIN because otherwise the noone would pay to watch or you are letting the viewers down. I dont agree. The players are not there for the viewers, they are there for themselves and their team. The audience are there for the players. They fact that they pay to watch the game does not give them right to make demands on HOW the game should be played other than to keep within the rules.
If every game of basketball was played as if by Harlem Globetrotters, ppl would stop watching because it would be shallow and uninteresting.
If boxing would be like wrestling(all about the show and decided before hand) ppl would stop watching because it would be shallow and unineresting.
In soccer greece won the European championshop with a 4-5-1 format and counters. Still we loved to watch, not because the games where ENTERTAINING, because it was a great STORY, the underdog taking on the soccer-elite of Europe.
My point is; In the world of proffessional sports, you get respect by trying your hardest to win. SC2 is moving towards becoming an ESPORT, or may allready be one. Only when players play to WIN rather then to ENTERTAIN, SC2 will be regarded as a sport; and while the scene might loose some audience who prefer the wrestlingscene-like approach, it will gain so many more viewers who just want to see the game beeing played aswell as it can be, players taking eachother on trying to overcome the other with any means possible, within the rules of the game.
The MC/White-ra Set, including the fifth game, was well within the rules, and also well within the NORM of tournament gaming; cheesing once here and there is pretty standard. White-ra got punished for consistently playing risky starters; a lesson hopefully well learned.
The only thing I would agree with you on is that it was an anticlimax. Ofcourse it was. That happens in the world of sports. Often. That does not make it wrong. It does not make you entitled, for instance, to get your money back just because your favourite team lost 0-4. The risk of anticlimax but also the chance of epic unexpected greatness is what makes sports awesome to watch.
I find complaining about it petty and immature. But thats just me and my opinion. Im just one person. Just like you. But the diffrence between you and me is that I would GLADLY pay to see players trying their best to win tournaments. You may not. I think that is YOUR loss, not the players, not the SC-scene and not mine. But thats just my opinion.
@s031720
Lol, you know the comments Krelhmar seemed very disturbing to me but I could not yet put them into words why it was so disturbing, but thanks to you it is very clear to me now. Krelhmar reminds me of the children that like wrestling and want "fake competitive entertainment." As to what more mature people told me when i had interest in wrestling, "it is fake, lulz." Seriously Krelhmar cut your bias attitude, we don't need that here, it's very childish.
On April 14 2011 16:25 tarath wrote: omg so epic. MC is such a boss.
Great casting as well, apollo + dimaga are as good as any pair of casters out there. I really think I like apollo casting a ton, him + day9 was assume too.
Casting was bias as hell but whatever. Just listen to DEMUSLIM get all excited about proxy 2 until he realizes MC is doing it LOL. At first he thought it was whitera and genius move then is like oh its MC. Not to mention saying MC was destroyed first 2 when white won by skin of his teeth.
Casting was super biased (particularly from Demuslim) I won't argue that, but they still made the event very enjoyable to watch (and I was routing for MC so its not like I'm a WhiteRa fan boy who was happy to see biased commentary).
Ugh, so annoying how all these scrubs come out of the woodworks. Everyone knows about Sirlin's playing to win article, so I'll link an older article by a sf2 super turbo player named S-kill (currently a corner stone of the fighting game community) who wrote one of the first anti-scrub articles back in the day. It definitely opened my eyes when I read it in 2002. This is a repost:
On April 15 2011 05:03 s031720 wrote: In soccer greece won the European championshop with a 4-5-1 format and counters. Still we loved to watch, not because the games where ENTERTAINING, because it was a great STORY, the underdog taking on the soccer-elite of Europe. People payed to watch; and I am pretty sure that that tournament did not deter them from paying to watch in the future.
On April 15 2011 04:12 s031720 wrote: As far as the last game is concerned;
1. MC didnt hack the game. 2. It was a mirror match-up.
Thats all anyone needs to know. It was not unfair, not imba, not OP, not anything but a good read and an effective strategy to WIN! Thats how professionals play.
Welcome to the world of SPORTS where the name of the game is winning, not entertaining whiny little snobs. (although preferably both).
Edit; And if anyone think it was a coinflip, you simply dont understand metagaming. Dont ever start playing poker. Hint; If you want to be successful at higher levels, you play the player, not the game.
Ok I'm so close on snapping because I don't get people like the one above.
What person in his right mind does not know that Poker, Sports and Starcraft II is all about calculated risks? Ofcourse everyone knows this, nobody is arguing it. There are bigger and lesser calculated risks, and what makes me dislike the last game is that MC thought the risk of White-Ra scouting his cheese and winning outright was lesser than if MC just played the game outright and straightforward.
He knew this and he did it and he won. Yes. We know. Shut up about it.
That does still make me less inclined to liking MC, it makes me less inclined to PAY for events. We all know it's part of the game. We are still entitled to our own godamn opinions and stop telling everyone who thinks differently they are not entitled to their opinion. I paid for the event in difference to 99% of you anti-trolls so I am actually entitled to give feedback asmuch as I godamn wish.
What's with this attitude of people going: "Rofle kids think there's 'honour or deserving' in games there isn't lol it's about winning rofle" yeah and it's also about godamn entertainment. If it isn't entertaining then people wont buy it and it's easy defending these things, players and esports when you're not paying for it but stop kidding yourselves: Capitalism is all about demand and nobody would demand to much cheesy games. Yes it was just 1 game and yeah it's to be expected but it's you people who made this discussion psudo-philosophical. It will happen again, nobody argues that, but I can still think it was a bad move and nobody has the godamn right or power to tell me I should think otherwise just as I won't tell you people your points are not valid: I just don't agree.
Now please stop with these black and white arguments as if a person did not love that MC did what he did that person hates esports, bunnies and the world.
What I take from this rant? You're a fan of WWF/WWE and not of MMA.
I happen to like neither, but I'll take a real take down in 3 minutes than 30 minute 'show match' of entertainment.
Individual games in Starcraft are entertaining. But it's also the totality- will they be taken down in 6minutes or a 60 minute slugfest? Or anything in between. The unknowns makes even the early game exciting- 4gate... or 9pool or 2gate, Flash's bunker rush (sorry going BW on yah)
You can keep your WWE. I'll take SC from proxy rush to 60 minute macro wars.
On April 15 2011 04:12 s031720 wrote: As far as the last game is concerned;
1. MC didnt hack the game. 2. It was a mirror match-up.
Thats all anyone needs to know. It was not unfair, not imba, not OP, not anything but a good read and an effective strategy to WIN! Thats how professionals play.
Welcome to the world of SPORTS where the name of the game is winning, not entertaining whiny little snobs. (although preferably both).
Edit; And if anyone think it was a coinflip, you simply dont understand metagaming. Dont ever start playing poker. Hint; If you want to be successful at higher levels, you play the player, not the game.
Ok I'm so close on snapping because I don't get people like the one above.
What person in his right mind does not know that Poker, Sports and Starcraft II is all about calculated risks? Ofcourse everyone knows this, nobody is arguing it. There are bigger and lesser calculated risks, and what makes me dislike the last game is that MC thought the risk of White-Ra scouting his cheese and winning outright was lesser than if MC just played the game outright and straightforward.
He knew this and he did it and he won. Yes. We know. Shut up about it.
That does still make me less inclined to liking MC, it makes me less inclined to PAY for events. We all know it's part of the game. We are still entitled to our own godamn opinions and stop telling everyone who thinks differently they are not entitled to their opinion. I paid for the event in difference to 99% of you anti-trolls so I am actually entitled to give feedback asmuch as I godamn wish.
What's with this attitude of people going: "Rofle kids think there's 'honour or deserving' in games there isn't lol it's about winning rofle" yeah and it's also about godamn entertainment. If it isn't entertaining then people wont buy it and it's easy defending these things, players and esports when you're not paying for it but stop kidding yourselves: Capitalism is all about demand and nobody would demand to much cheesy games. Yes it was just 1 game and yeah it's to be expected but it's you people who made this discussion psudo-philosophical. It will happen again, nobody argues that, but I can still think it was a bad move and nobody has the godamn right or power to tell me I should think otherwise just as I won't tell you people your points are not valid: I just don't agree.
Now please stop with these black and white arguments as if a person did not love that MC did what he did that person hates esports, bunnies and the world.
Edit: HolyArrow's post was nicer than mine.
You were there at the event? MC complimented the Swedish fans for being "more energetic" than his Korean fans. I'm pretty sure if MC's cocky attitude gets in the way of his practice, he'll eventually lose his current "best in world plus maybe MVP" status and will stop owning other top players and the haters can all relax (or more likely, find a new target). And not saying you're a hater, but if you read this thread....
Imagine it was White-Ra coming back from 0-2 down and proxy gating the final game to victory, people would be going absolutely crazy, 100 pages filled with "special taktiks"/"better taktiks" meme, and endlessly praising how ballsy White-Ra is for doing that in the final game.
There's nothing wrong with being upset when a player you like loses, but you need to give the winner the credit he deserves. Calling MC a "fag" or someone who "only cheeses because he knows he can't beat White-Ra" is extremely immature and you know fully yourself how differently you would be reacting if White-Ra was on the winning side of this final.
On April 15 2011 04:12 s031720 wrote: As far as the last game is concerned;
1. MC didnt hack the game. 2. It was a mirror match-up.
Thats all anyone needs to know. It was not unfair, not imba, not OP, not anything but a good read and an effective strategy to WIN! Thats how professionals play.
Welcome to the world of SPORTS where the name of the game is winning, not entertaining whiny little snobs. (although preferably both).
Edit; And if anyone think it was a coinflip, you simply dont understand metagaming. Dont ever start playing poker. Hint; If you want to be successful at higher levels, you play the player, not the game.
Ok I'm so close on snapping because I don't get people like the one above.
What person in his right mind does not know that Poker, Sports and Starcraft II is all about calculated risks? Ofcourse everyone knows this, nobody is arguing it. There are bigger and lesser calculated risks, and what makes me dislike the last game is that MC thought the risk of White-Ra scouting his cheese and winning outright was lesser than if MC just played the game outright and straightforward.
He knew this and he did it and he won. Yes. We know. Shut up about it.
That does still make me less inclined to liking MC, it makes me less inclined to PAY for events. We all know it's part of the game. We are still entitled to our own godamn opinions and stop telling everyone who thinks differently they are not entitled to their opinion. I paid for the event in difference to 99% of you anti-trolls so I am actually entitled to give feedback asmuch as I godamn wish.
What's with this attitude of people going: "Rofle kids think there's 'honour or deserving' in games there isn't lol it's about winning rofle" yeah and it's also about godamn entertainment. If it isn't entertaining then people wont buy it and it's easy defending these things, players and esports when you're not paying for it but stop kidding yourselves: Capitalism is all about demand and nobody would demand to much cheesy games. Yes it was just 1 game and yeah it's to be expected but it's you people who made this discussion psudo-philosophical. It will happen again, nobody argues that, but I can still think it was a bad move and nobody has the godamn right or power to tell me I should think otherwise just as I won't tell you people your points are not valid: I just don't agree.
Now please stop with these black and white arguments as if a person did not love that MC did what he did that person hates esports, bunnies and the world.
Firstly i heard a lot about nerdraging being fairly commonplace in swedish males so you should take a chill pill if the internetz makes you rage! Be chilled out like jinro and the normal swedes <3
Secondly, in starcraft 1, there was a case of 11 individuals having very entertaining games but eventually they were found out to have match fixed. Of course they were banned from kespa permanently because regardless of how entertaining a match/series can be, people on the whole prefer the tournament to won fair and square rather than it being entertaining. MC won fair and square. Cheese is a part of starcraft and will always be a part of starcraft. It's a valid strategy in a person's arsenal as long as it's not way overpowered (30s bunker rushes). If the game was meant to be entertaining and not really competitive then we would just have showmatches (exhibition) matches but everybody knows nobody wants to watch exhibition matches where people aren't trying their best to win the game.
You are entitled to your opinion and i believe you were probably one of those wow players that whined when they couldn't get weapons from arena anymore and eventually wow became more casual friendly. I quit after i got gladiator title in season 2 but after that wow because very casual friendly
People like you have made starcraft 2 like wow where we don't even have losses on our profiles because it will hurt our feelings or make us nerdrage or in your case close to snapping with swedish fury. They even changed copper to bronze because copper sounded so bad in order to stop gamer's feelings being hurt. Fact is people diamond in or above in 1v1 understand the game and they know that cheese is a part of starcraft strategy and it's a trump card you can play to test the resilience of your opponent...i.e will he tilt in the next game.
Tbh have your opinion but most of the players on this thread knows mc won fair and square. So does white-ra and that's why he didn't make a fuss about it because he knew the better man won on the day.
I am a newbie so I probably haven't read the section of the rules where it says that 'thou shall not cheese'. Some people act like MC broke the rules or something. Of course he didn't.
I was cheering for White-Ra but I have alot of respect for a great player like MC. Most of all I'm thankful for MC and the other invited players coming to Sweden and promoting SC2 by bringing their best game. I'm hoping MC will remember the enthusiastic crowd and not a few whiners.
No one will read this but I wanted to say the commentators were my fav next to chill/day9 with a side note for bisquit... this was well commentated, enjoyable to watch and... thanks
edit
ps: <3 mc <3 white-ra (my fav ever) <3 jinro your a baller <3 the rest I love you all (cept idra lol)
On April 14 2011 20:51 Technique wrote: Dreamhack showing how proper streaming and event management is done.
Like a boss! All those american leaques/tournaments can learn ALOT from these guys.
This.
Dreamhack and GSL production values are just far and away beyond almost every other tournament out there. Excellent casting, hosting, streaming, etc. Very enjoyable viewing experience.
I didn't watch the dreamhack and accidently clicked into this thread so I'm making comments on the last few pages. I think you guys should respect the others' opinions as much as you respect the players' desire to win. If SC2 is going to become an eSport, it needs more than simply who wins/loses. Think of which sports you watch and which you don't (and why). When every other Terran was marine/scv rushing for 5 min games in GSL 3, I stopped watching GSL for a while. And guess what, it turned out I wasn't alone. The viewership of GSL dropped drastically and there was even a concern whether SC2 is dying in Korea. GSL, hot on the heels, changed the maps and made adjustment on existing maps, and Code A/B prelims were all played on macro maps for the following seasons.
Sure the players play to win, but the viewers tune in and pay for entertainment. If games stop being entertaining SC2 will simply die as an eSport. (And it's one of the biggest reasons I care about the balance, despite that I don't have any vested interest in who wins what)
On April 15 2011 13:19 usethis2 wrote: I didn't watch the dreamhack and accidently clicked into this thread so I'm making comments on the last few pages. I think you guys should respect the others' opinions as much as you respect the players' desire to win. If SC2 is going to become an eSport, it needs more than simply who wins/loses. Think of which sports you watch and which you don't (and why). When every other Terran was marine/scv rushing for 5 min games in GSL 3, I stopped watching GSL for a while. And guess what, it turned out I wasn't alone. The viewership of GSL dropped drastically and there was even a concern whether SC2 is dying in Korea. GSL, hot on the heels, changed the maps and made adjustment on existing maps, and Code A/B prelims were all played on macro maps for the following seasons.
Sure the players play to win, but the viewers tune in and pay for entertainment. If games stop being entertaining SC2 will simply die as an eSport. (And it's one of the biggest reasons I care about the balance, despite that I don't have any vested interest in who wins what)
If a player cheese in every game, of course I would be upset. But I'm also very glad to see the other players find a way to counter it with his macro, strategy, or godly micro. So I ketp watching GSL, and I think it didn't let me down.
IMO, I think if the match tend to be cheesy, no matter you're the underdog or not, then BLIZZARD should work. And maybe a new map pool gonna help, too. But the players should ALWAYS try their best to win. As you can see, the underdogs tend to cheese because they know they don't have good chance to win in micro/macro. To me, that is also the evidence they tried their very hard to win. "I know I'm not as good as you, but I'm a PRO, I'm here to win." And if you are the superior one, you should block it rightly, and kill him with no mercy.
(About cheese: All protoss player will block his door in PvZ now. It can defend fast zerglings scout and even turn to block 6D. It's a very mature strategy that it seems like it's a common sense now. Everyone will agreen that SC2 is a new game. I treat every cheese as a challenge to all players. Without them, the game will not go forward.)
EPT
. Not to mention saying MC was destroyed first 2 when white won by skin of his teeth.
