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Ocedic
United States1808 Posts
You think less of a player who's able to read his opponent correctly and respond accordingly? White Ra COULD have stopped the cheese. He didn't. It was the last thing in the world White Ra expected, which is why it was a brilliant play by MC. Unless you honestly believe people should only be allowed to do 1 build and macro games only. It's ironic because that sounds a lot like Brood War, where foreigners didn't stand a chance against Koreans at all. | ||
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DaRKMaTT3r
Brazil553 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:09 Zane wrote: No, I think it was GSTL February, don't know for sure though. It was on 1st GSTL, Ace took 4 ogs Members, 2 proxy gate MC, MC won and IM chose MVP. MC DT rush and marauder scouted probing dropping a pylon on Tasteless Secret Hallway. | ||
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MechaCthulhu
United States136 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:03 Forak wrote: People still defending MC like he's sacred but no one is actually attacking or insulting him, how bizarre.. Yeah, absolutely no one. + Show Spoiler + On April 13 2011 04:44 IPS.Mardow. wrote: Yep, and thats why MC avoids the strategic part of the game and just cheeses his way to the win. Srsly, I just couldnt respect MC before and I disrespect him even more now. He didnt deserve this win today. On April 13 2011 04:42 Roe wrote: if it's the best way to play, and if it's the most powerful, then i suppose he doesnt consider that playing a different build would and winning at the same time would prove he's better On April 13 2011 04:55 bmml wrote: Due to the persona MC has created for himself any game he wins make him have anti-fans, hes a B team MBC scrub somehow making it big in SC2 and people fall all over him. Its rage worthy. On April 13 2011 04:48 riboflavin wrote: I didn't forget this. But I also listen when players like MC promise entertaining games. There is pride involved in the way you win as much as the win itself. My frustration comes from the lack of showmanship. I want to see their mid and late game PvP (does that even exist?!) and MC knows that while he won, he did not win how a God would win. He won like a mere mortal, reverting to cheesy 'strategic' play. He gets the check, get gets the W. WhiteRa gets my respect though. On April 13 2011 04:47 ReacH. wrote: How can people say that it was good strategy for MC to cheese? It was a coin flip, and it proves nothing about his skill. On April 13 2011 04:47 Dandel Ion wrote: Being a foreigner might play a part, but I am just really disappointed that a person who says he is "god protoss" or whatnot needs to cheese to win his games. Doesn't even matter that WhiteRa 4gated too, if you act like you're the best player ever, I would like to see some standards. Like winning solid games or something. Time to switch races again... On April 13 2011 04:47 Ratel wrote: Whitera opens with a defensive 4gate to hold offensive 4gates Whitera prefers not to go 4gate because he believes it requires absolutely no skill to execute Whitera lost only because he didn't scout -because of that type of cheese i scout at 8 and i always scout my base and around it in pvp. He lost purely due to his lack of scouting -MC wasn't confident to win a real game so he cheesed his way through -made the series completely anticlimactic = doesnt care about the observers and making a good show. That is my 2 cents. On April 13 2011 04:46 Fatalize wrote: Have you forgotten that microing 3 units has absolutely nothing to do with strategy ? Micro in general has nothing to do with strategy. Strategy is about economy management and global army management aka positionning. Microing individual units has nothing to do with strategy. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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zevered
Canada31 Posts
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zocktol
Germany1928 Posts
Im seriously sad that White-Ra did not win this final, especially because there is no price for 2nd place(The only thing i did not like about the production). However this whole discussion about WWE, MMA and Starcraft is just moronic, if people continue to be emotional about this. If MCs wins do not entertain you, fine. I also do not like his style and do not think that he is the best player in the world, even though his results might prove me wrong, but thats just my gut-feeling. What i would actually like to see discussed is the following, is it possible that because of the new "trend" to remove specific spawning positions on 4 player maps, that cheese is not risky enough for the cheeser? | ||
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Spitmode
Germany1510 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:11 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: After such an amazing tournament, I really can't believe how much whining we're getting about MC winning, especially since he was the huge favorite anyway. I love White-Ra, and he played incredibly well overall, but the fact that he was unable to scout his own base made him lose the game, and MC was just plain ballsy with that last move. Cheesing isn't cheating, and you play to win. Period. If you don't like the fact that a player's top priority is to win instead of entertain you, then you probably shouldn't be watching any tournament with a prize pool. When money is on the line, players use strategies that they're comfortable with. You're not always going to see amazing games or crazy builds. If you don't like the fact that MC tricked White-Ra in the last game, then just talk about something not related to MC. Or don't post at all. The QQ regarding MC's strategy doesn't need to be included. Post about how awesome White-Ra played overall, or how Dreamhack was an amazing tournament. Don't post bullshit about how MC needs to cheese to win, or how he doesn't have real skill, because his achievements have already proven that he's one of the best SC2 players in the world. so so true | ||
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Rustug
1488 Posts
Ohh, get out your pitchforks and torches we need to find us a new person to hate. Come on... enjoy life a little. I just saw a great tournament, with some great player, topnotch production and a GREAT Final. If every tournament could be like this I would be a very happy spectator. | ||
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Sablar
Sweden880 Posts
I agree with this as well. I watched from aftonbladet though, because they had some interviews with the Swedish players etc between the games, but the normal stream seemed to keep a very high quality as well. Jinro seemed so disappointed tho.. Wasn't perfect in terms of a regame and a sound issue, but overall it was a pleasure to watch I think. Dreamhack boss didn't want to promise anything but with it being sold out I'm guessing that there will be an even bigger venue for the upcoming events. The cheers and stuff really helps the feel of it all I think. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
Well played anyway. | ||
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beetoo
Sweden92 Posts
This is why competition is good! Ty dreamhack for the best production ever. | ||
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dakalro
Romania525 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:02 wshm wrote: Just no. It's part of the game, if a player can prevent his team from getting eliminated from the world cup do you think he'd care about getting a red card? Also, partecipation for other games is only for bad behaviour (punching, spitting, hurting someone). That was just a technical "illegal" move which is completely contemplated in the game, it does not differ from cheese in any way. If your cheese gets spotted, you lose the game. If their penalty kick scores, you are in the same situation as before but with a player less. The example is more than valid in my opinion. So that's it then, for some people cheese is cheating. They feel robbed of a game, raped, violated when someone doesn't give them their 1 hour game (I assume it mostly comes from them feeling that way as players in WhiteRa's shoes and goes on to be the same when spectating). When did people turn so damn soft, it's within the rules of the game, it's extremely difficult to execute if properly played against (scouting), it's a fun and entertaining strategy complement to have. Sure it doesn't showcase hand and eye skill but it sure as hell shows a well prepared player, great strategic thought and a proper idea of when to use it. Using such a risky build is probably one of the most intelligent things MC could have done cause he sure as hell didn't use it as a 50-50 I don't care what happens, he's proven time and again he's too smart for that. | ||
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Teacher74
United States47 Posts
Whitera didn't know there were only 2 spawn positions. | ||
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p1mp
Norway9 Posts
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danielsan
Romania399 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:11 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Don't post bullshit about how MC needs to cheese to win, or how he doesn't have real skill, because his achievements have already proven that he's one of the best SC2 players in the world. the guy 4 gates and other all-ins like 50% of the matches. It's 6 months already and i still can't see what's the hype around him. User was warned for this post | ||
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Marooned
Norway161 Posts
On April 13 2011 04:58 Teacher74 wrote: How did MC know that whitera was in that position without scouting the bottom position? Seems kinda strange to me as well. Guess it was cross positions only, yet white-ra scouted the top left first. I feel so bad for him. Coming so close to 15000$, and losing like that. He def. got his community support though | ||
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space_yes
United States548 Posts
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Tiax;mous
669 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:07 Longshank wrote: Of course MC is allowed to cheese in a final game. Just as I as a spectator and fan is allowed to think less of him for doing so. I don't get what the fuss is about. Totally agree this. Noone arguing about legitimacy of his win , he won fair and square , congratulations to him etc etc. But such a victory , after claiming he's the GOD TOSS and saying he didn't played seriously in GSL WC against White-Ra ; I don't really respect him that much anymore. Oh well , I've always been a MVP fan anyway  | ||
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Razith
Canada431 Posts
On the ladder you have no idea (generally) who your opponent is, so it is a gamble to cheese. In a set of 5 matches, after 4 games (and two previous finals together) you start to get to know each others' mindsets and strategies. oGsMC was able to stay calm and calculate the risk vs WhiteRa specifically. If he didn't think it would work against WhiteRa, he wouldn't of done it. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
But the bigger problem is that he often seems to expect the same behaviour from his opponent, and thusly he doesnt prepare enough for the other guy 4gating. We saw it against San in GSLWC and MC in TSL. Really respect his style but i cant help feeling its a bit..... stubborn. Would really have loved to see him win. Even by cannon rushing or proxy gating. | ||
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MrSexington
United States1768 Posts
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