On April 13 2011 05:11 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Don't post bullshit about how MC needs to cheese to win, or how he doesn't have real skill, because his achievements have already proven that he's one of the best SC2 players in the world.
the guy 4 gates and other all-ins like 50% of the matches. It's 6 months already and i still can't see what's the hype around him.
Actually that's just you (and other similarly narrow minded spectators) defining 'all ins' as any aggressive play. That is unless of course it's your favorite players doing a aggressive play. Then it's 'brilliant strategy.'
ok, i really searched some time now... can anyone tell me what the name of that protoss song was? in the video you could see how a toss army FFs a zerg army and storms the shit out of them ^^
On April 13 2011 05:07 Longshank wrote: Of course MC is allowed to cheese in a final game. Just as I as a spectator and fan is allowed to think less of him for doing so. I don't get what the fuss is about.
Totally agree this. Noone arguing about legitimacy of his win , he won fair and square , congratulations to him etc etc. But such a victory , after claiming he's the GOD TOSS and saying he didn't played seriously in GSL WC against White-Ra ; I don't really respect him that much anymore. Oh well , I've always been a MVP fan anyway
"Noone arguing about legitimacy of his win." Erm... you might want to check out about 20 pages worth of MC bashing.
On April 13 2011 05:14 Kreb wrote: I really respect Whitera seemingly not ever offensive 4gate, he do seem to think thats not how PvP is supposed to be played. But sometimes i cant stop growling a bit at his inability to switch up his style with a few cheeses or just go straight up offensive 4gates, even or clear 4gate maps such as crevasse.
But the bigger problem is that he often seems to expect the same behaviour from his opponent, and thusly he doesnt prepare enough for the other guy 4gating. We saw it against San in GSLWC and MC in TSL.
Really respect his style but i cant help feeling its a bit..... stubborn. Would really have loved to see him win. Even by cannon rushing or proxy gating.
What are you on about, one of his wins tonight was offensive 4gate. And WhiteRa will cheese when his time will come. MC waited how long for his first 2gate? 4 GSL seasons + numerous other tournaments + a ton of games just against WhiteRa so that he knew his style? It does tend to be a one time trick. From now on, for quite some time you'll be seeing people scout in base against him.
At some point WhiteRa will also play his cheese cards, when it will matter most to him, just wait.
On April 12 2011 23:05 Sqq wrote: is 2gd the same guy that used to hoste that WoW show on esl ? Used to watch it every week til they removed his counter weight for reasons they wouldn't say.
Yep, and the "counter weight" would be matt "zalmah" or something like that.
Hope nobody read that
Oh god this is so funny...
- If we both won 15,000 dollars, I'd buy a bazooka! - Why would you get a bazooka!? - 'Cause you'd be in a fucking hot air balloon.
H-I-L-A-R-I-O-U-S!!!
ROFL
that other guy looks like a bit like idra after the denied high five after that joke :D
On April 13 2011 05:16 Feos wrote: ok, i really searched some time now... can anyone tell me what the name of that protoss song was? in the video you could see how a toss army FFs a zerg army and storms the shit out of them ^^
My IQ just dropped to 50 trying to understand your point. These situations are NOTHING alike. Trying to win and trying to win by cheating are two different worlds buddy.
That wasn't cheating. The rule set for soccer says that a player who deliberately bats the ball down with his hands is ejected from the game and the opposing team gets a penalty kick. The player on Uruguay used that to his advantage. If people have a problem with the rule, change it. You can't bely human nature when someone takes advantage of the rule set. It was a smart play.
"The rule set for soccer says that a player who deliberately bats the ball down with his hands is ejected from the game and the opposing team gets a penalty kick."
Do you know why there's such a penalty? It's because the action is considered cheating.
If you break a rule in a sport, it's cheating, just because the cheating worked out well for them doesn't mean it wasn't cheating.
It's part of the rule set. If a player chooses to use it to his advantage, he's allowed to do that. If the penalty doesn't justify the action, then you make the penalty stricter. In other words, people need to stop crying that MC cheesed in the grand final of a major tournament and yell at Blizzard for developing a rule set where that sort of play is possible at a high level. Blame the creator of the rule set. Not human nature.
On April 13 2011 05:14 Yaotzin wrote: re: Uruguay, Suarez commited a foul, he did not cheat. They are very different things. Cheating is stuff like doping and calciopoli. Fouling OTOH is within the rules of the game (at a price, of course).
Yeah, this. I still don't understand why people are so upset about this when it's just a foul like every other foul and he go the proper punishment for it.
If he didn't get a punishment it would be a whole different thing and I would understand the discussion about it, but as it was it was part of the game.
Can't say that MC didn't deserve it at all but... I'm so much disappointed that White-Ra lost MC's micro near perfect, while White-Ra seems better at decision making. And no scout in PvP is of course a clear mistake which cost him game.
This was an awesome event. I only caught a few of the games but it was very fun to watch. I sincerely hope other events can come close to the same production level and entertainment value. I'm definitely a White-Ra fan but I certainly can't fault MC for taking a risk to win. Honestly, you wouldn't really expect someone to go balls-to-the-wall proxy gates in game 5.
One of the most epic games ever in BW was the one in the OSL finals where Boxer SCV+Marine rushed yellow. Crazy stuff happens.
This DH finals game 5 could have been awesome had WR not scouted a position where MC could not have spawned. He might have defended and turned the game into a really fun situation.
That's funny. Yes it's a strategy game, but like everygame, we as viewers wants to see fair game that give credit to the one who takes risk / go deeper into thinking the build he will use / varies his plays. One cheese once in a while is good and give a lot of dynamics to the series, but damn on his 3-0 run MC does a 3 gate blink on xel naga, a 4gate on crevasse and a proxy gate on shakuras. Each time he tried to go robo he lost, each time he won it was a game with less than 10 minute with only t1 units, each time he made a nexus... ho no wait HE DID NOT MAKE ANY NEXUS IN ALL 5 GAME.
It does not feel fair, it does not feel like we are seeing the best players, it does not feel like it is the deepest starcraft 2 experience we can have.
Ok, blaming MC is bad, so we gotta blame the game ?
On April 13 2011 05:14 Kreb wrote: I really respect Whitera seemingly not ever offensive 4gate, he do seem to think thats not how PvP is supposed to be played. But sometimes i cant stop growling a bit at his inability to switch up his style with a few cheeses or just go straight up offensive 4gates, even or clear 4gate maps such as crevasse.
But the bigger problem is that he often seems to expect the same behaviour from his opponent, and thusly he doesnt prepare enough for the other guy 4gating. We saw it against San in GSLWC and MC in TSL.
Really respect his style but i cant help feeling its a bit..... stubborn. Would really have loved to see him win. Even by cannon rushing or proxy gating.
What are you on about, one of his wins tonight was offensive 4gate.
Also check the TSL game, white-ra was the one with offensive 4 gate in the first 2 games.
On April 12 2011 23:05 Sqq wrote: is 2gd the same guy that used to hoste that WoW show on esl ? Used to watch it every week til they removed his counter weight for reasons they wouldn't say.
Yep, and the "counter weight" would be matt "zalmah" or something like that.
On April 13 2011 05:07 Longshank wrote: Of course MC is allowed to cheese in a final game. Just as I as a spectator and fan is allowed to think less of him for doing so. I don't get what the fuss is about.
Totally agree this. Noone arguing about legitimacy of his win , he won fair and square , congratulations to him etc etc. But such a victory , after claiming he's the GOD TOSS and saying he didn't played seriously in GSL WC against White-Ra ; I don't really respect him that much anymore. Oh well , I've always been a MVP fan anyway
There are people in this thread who aren't just saying I don't like his style of play, but they're actually calling MC a noob or incapable of outthinking WhiteRa. Basically giving no credit to MC for exploiting a flaw in WhiteRa's early game.
These people are not pointing out that WhiteRa 1. did not scout his base for early proxies (something that MC did during the matches ie. Xelnaga, before sending out the probe) 2. doing a greedy build early and not ever getting that first zealot 3. not being aware or forgetting that they're playing on a modified shakuras where you will always spawn cross position
Basically, these fans give WhiteRa no flack for these (what could be argued) noobish mistakes, but MC countering these flaws makes his build noobish.
I'm not saying you or everyone is saying this, but there are clearly quite a few people who've resorted to illogical arguments to denigrate MC's skill level. The worst being the "entertainment" argument.
EPT
MC's micro near perfect, while White-Ra seems better at decision making. And no scout in PvP is of course a clear mistake which cost him game.
