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Gimix
United States67 Posts
This is further evidenced by top players like MVP, Nestea and Fruitdealer not even making it past the first round in this season of GSL. What's more likely: These former GSL winners are not top players anymore or even top players can get an upset fairly easily? To make such a strict assumption that Korean players dominate foreigners you need a LOT of data. One day of one tournament for one player is not going to cut it. | ||
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ooni
Australia1498 Posts
On March 02 2011 07:34 On_Slaught wrote: I wonder what excuses people will think up (in defense of the foreign players) if Moon somehow gets top 3. This thread is sad to read. Ace played well and deserves his wins. What makes me most sad is how poorly QXC played. Well it's OBVIOUS there is a gap. Koreans practice in the same room, all day, talking about SC2 and cooking up strategy and what not. ALL DAY, SAME HOUSE. Unless foreigners are just naturally talented than koreans (yes I see the irony here because many ppl say otherwise), there has to be a skill gap. Their practice system is much better than the foreigers, it's just simple as that. I don't see how ppl can say Ace was not the far superior player, FAR superior. | ||
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KoshkaTV
United States430 Posts
On March 02 2011 08:27 pit__ wrote: Why does nobody discuss variance? The fact that ace does well at IEM and not well at GSL does not prove that koreans are untouchable. What it suggests is that there is still a huge variance in a 1v1 game as a result of the game still being relatively new. This is further evidenced by top players like MVP, Nestea and Fruitdealer not even making it past the first round in this season of GSL. What's more likely: These former GSL winners are not top players anymore or even top players can get an upset fairly easily? To make such a strict assumption that Korean players dominate foreigners you need a LOT of data. One day of one tournament for one player is not going to cut it. There was very little variance in Ace going 10-0. Although you are right, in a short series anything can happen. 10-0 though, thats getting to the point of statistical significance. | ||
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KoshkaTV
United States430 Posts
On March 02 2011 08:31 ooni wrote: Well it's OBVIOUS there is a gap. Koreans practice in the same room, all day, talking about SC2 and cooking up strategy and what not. ALL DAY, SAME HOUSE. Unless foreigners are just naturally talented than koreans (yes I see the irony here because many ppl say otherwise), there has to be a skill gap. Their practice system is much better than the foreigers, it's just simple as that. I don't see how ppl can say Ace was not the far superior player, FAR superior. Yes, watch one of Artosis' team house tour video's and you'll see why Korean's are only going to get farther ahead. http://www.youtube.com/user/ArtosisTV#p/a/u/0/coRiJUmL3P8 Until we see "foreigners" living and practicing like that, we'll only see Korean's get farther ahead. It's truly Pro's vs Joes. The Korean's are willing and able to fully commit to excellence... and the results show. | ||
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Vimsey
United Kingdom2235 Posts
On March 02 2011 07:34 On_Slaught wrote: I wonder what excuses people will think up (in defense of the foreign players) if Moon somehow gets top 3. This thread is sad to read. Ace played well and deserves his wins. What makes me most sad is how poorly QXC played. I dont know whats annoying me more at the moment that people are assuming Moon will fail tomorrow or that if he succeeds it will prove how bad EU and NA players are. Its a no win situation for me at the moment since Moon still is a hero for me coming from WC3 he has made mistakes in the past because of lack of competitive practice but he is better than a lot are giving him credit for. We dont even really know who the best players in GSL yet really let alone world wide. Im just going to try and enjoy the games without it having to prove something tomorrow. Edit: got beaten to the punch by Pit__ well said. | ||
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Serpico
4285 Posts
On March 02 2011 08:36 dsousa wrote: Yes, watch one of Artosis' team house tour video's and you'll see why Korean's are only going to get farther ahead. http://www.youtube.com/user/ArtosisTV#p/a/u/0/coRiJUmL3P8 Until we see "foreigners" living and practicing like that, we'll only see Korean's get farther ahead. It's truly Pro's vs Joes. The Korean's are willing and able to fully commit to excellence... and the results show. It can also be sustainable for koreans to try and commit their entire lives to playing starcraft 2. | ||
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fush
Canada563 Posts
On March 02 2011 08:32 dsousa wrote: There was very little variance in Ace going 10-0. Although you are right, in a short series anything can happen. 10-0 though, thats getting to the point of statistical significance. no. you have no idea what you're talking about. ace had an amazing day, doesn't imply he's going to be unstoppable the rest of the tournament. we've heard a lot of the top level players here admit that the top level in korea is a bit better than elsewhere, but you can argue that ace may be up there with the top level koreans and just hasn't shown it in GSL... yet that doesn't mean that any top 200 korean ladder player can come over and roflstomp this same group. | ||
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Cha1R
United States221 Posts
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KoshkaTV
United States430 Posts
On March 02 2011 08:37 fush wrote: no. you have no idea what you're talking about. ace had an amazing day, doesn't imply he's going to be unstoppable the rest of the tournament. we've heard a lot of the top level players here admit that the top level in korea is a bit better than elsewhere, but you can argue that ace may be up there with the top level koreans and just hasn't shown it in GSL... yet that doesn't mean that any top 200 korean ladder player can come over and roflstomp this same group. ya... thats a lot of words.... i'll respond with 10-0. Against, Idra, WhiteRa, Morrow, Qxc, Tarson..... I'm not saying he's the best player in the world.... but he is the best player in that group. | ||
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Santi
Colombia466 Posts
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Asha
United Kingdom38149 Posts
On March 02 2011 08:43 Santi wrote: Any news on day2? or group b? where is the info http://www.esl-world.net/masters/season5/hanover/sc2_groupstage/ The order of play and group table is up there, same as it was for day 1 and group b | ||
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Kazzabiss
1006 Posts
On March 02 2011 08:43 Santi wrote: Any news on day2? or group b? where is the info It hasn't happened yet... | ||
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dizzy101
Netherlands2066 Posts
Two Koreans in the final.... is my bet. | ||
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Vimsey
United Kingdom2235 Posts
On March 02 2011 08:45 Asha` wrote: http://www.esl-world.net/masters/season5/hanover/sc2_groupstage/ The order of play and group table is up there, same as it was for day 1 and group b The game times and casting schedule is below the player here http://tv.esl.eu/de/ although be wary that the times arent that reliable if yesterday was anything to go by. | ||
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Shinobi1982
1605 Posts
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inamorato
United States263 Posts
But, the truth is this tournament isn't a match up, it's a fucking execution. Ace, Squirtle, and Idra are the only people with an opportunity. It is significant proof that every established foreigner, aside from Jinro and Idra, have been slaughtered in GSL. As for this talk of champions falling in GSL being proof that they aren't top tier players is non-sense. GSL' group play is absolutely ridiculous. It leaves room for a lot of rigga ma roll to take place. Also, I could see if the argument was these Champions were falling to foreigners, but that isn't the case I'm not from Korea. Obviously I would love to see some foreigners doing well, but there is a difference between supporting, hoping, and being realistic. Realistically from the dawn of competitive BW until current SC2, Korea is of much better caliber. | ||
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KoshkaTV
United States430 Posts
On March 02 2011 08:52 Shinobi1982 wrote: And here's the interview with the "player of the day". Artosis StarTale house tour coverage from a week or two ago if you had missed it :D. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsssG5_FrXM You watch an interview like this, and its pretty clear the Korean's are going to make SC2 their BW whenever they want. If you watch Ret's interview a few weeks ago at assembly he said that all the Korean BW players who played in an MSL or OSL were alot better than any foreigners. This is whats going to happen with SC2. Training, preparation and team matter alot. And Korean's are a decade ahead in building and running quality RTS teams. TeamLiquid is the only western team that trains in a comparable way. And thats only part of their team. I'd love to be wrong, but i'm a huge SC2 fan and I just haven't seen anything from the europeans or americans thats shows that they can translate sc2 talents into sc2 champions. The Korean's deserve their success, they work hardest for it. Whats the SC2 scene going to look like if a korean wins IEM, TSL, etc. If these western tourneys keep getting such big prize pools, the Korean's are going to send more and more players. Its interesting times in SC2.....i fear the western sc2 scene could be in trouble unless the players and the teams can step it up. If the best foreign players can't be in the top 20 players in the world..... people are going to want to watch the best. | ||
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ZiggyZ
Sweden18 Posts
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Tef
Sweden443 Posts
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deerpark87
760 Posts
On March 02 2011 09:15 Tef wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if Ace will loose in the first playoff match and then everyone is going to point out that europe/us isn't that far behind again. Go bandwagon, go! Would be more funny if Moon wins out :D | ||
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