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On February 19 2011 13:57 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2011 13:51 Orome wrote:
Idra and Artosis are calling the 2 base colossus void ray imbalanced, but on maps where P can actually get a third and even a fourth doing (Shakuras, meta cross spots, I'd assume the GSL maps) it it just becomes ridiculous. I'd be extremely surprised if ogsJ manages to win this. I think the good answer to this is what July did in GSTL : open with corruptors. But you have to scout well, before if you go corruptors blindly and the P 6 gates, it's hard xD
I've been trying this a bit recently, going corruptor roach and trying to deny the third. It's really really hard though and corruptors aren't a long-term solution vs 2 stargate chronoed void rays.
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Strifeco ahead despite botching the ling runby.
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On February 19 2011 14:00 shaunnn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2011 13:59 StutteR wrote:
Wasn't Haypro wasn't supposed to be playing in this Tourney? Why is Hero playing on his account and he's not even in the bracket? It was said a few times he was feeling sick
kk sorry. didn't see that.  was looking forward to seeing him play. Its been a while!
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On February 19 2011 14:00 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2011 13:54 Orome wrote:On February 19 2011 13:54 Inky87 wrote:On February 19 2011 13:51 Orome wrote:
Idra and Artosis are calling the 2 base colossus void ray imbalanced, but on maps where P can actually get a third and even a fourth doing (Shakuras, meta cross spots, I'd assume the GSL maps) it it just becomes ridiculous. I'd be extremely surprised if ogsJ manages to win this. With the amount of voidrays he has, he doesnt have that big a ground army. With enough mutalisks, he should be able to take them down. If you're on 3 or more bases, you max out with stalkers instead of zealots and mutas melt ridiculously fast. Khaldor's just wrong on this. Zerg needs higher tech units than hydras and roaches against 3/4-base Protoss play. Ultras + mutas + infestors do quite well vs. this composition.
Yeah I know that's a nice composition, but look at the gas cost for each of those units. 
I'm guessing stuff like this will become viable on the GSL maps where Zerg can get a ridiculous number of bases, but it's pretty damn hard to get more than 4 bases up on meta.
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On February 19 2011 14:00 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2011 13:54 Orome wrote:On February 19 2011 13:54 Inky87 wrote:On February 19 2011 13:51 Orome wrote:
Idra and Artosis are calling the 2 base colossus void ray imbalanced, but on maps where P can actually get a third and even a fourth doing (Shakuras, meta cross spots, I'd assume the GSL maps) it it just becomes ridiculous. I'd be extremely surprised if ogsJ manages to win this. With the amount of voidrays he has, he doesnt have that big a ground army. With enough mutalisks, he should be able to take them down. If you're on 3 or more bases, you max out with stalkers instead of zealots and mutas melt ridiculously fast. Khaldor's just wrong on this. Zerg needs higher tech units than hydras and roaches against 3/4-base Protoss play. Ultras + mutas + infestors do quite well vs. this composition. Can dump the rest of the minerals going into zerglings.
lol do you know how much gas that is
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On February 19 2011 14:02 ccHaZaRd wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2011 14:00 Azarkon wrote:On February 19 2011 13:54 Orome wrote:On February 19 2011 13:54 Inky87 wrote:On February 19 2011 13:51 Orome wrote:
Idra and Artosis are calling the 2 base colossus void ray imbalanced, but on maps where P can actually get a third and even a fourth doing (Shakuras, meta cross spots, I'd assume the GSL maps) it it just becomes ridiculous. I'd be extremely surprised if ogsJ manages to win this. With the amount of voidrays he has, he doesnt have that big a ground army. With enough mutalisks, he should be able to take them down. If you're on 3 or more bases, you max out with stalkers instead of zealots and mutas melt ridiculously fast. Khaldor's just wrong on this. Zerg needs higher tech units than hydras and roaches against 3/4-base Protoss play. Ultras + mutas + infestors do quite well vs. this composition. Can dump the rest of the minerals going into zerglings. lol do you know how much gas that is
Do you know how much gas VR+colossus is?
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Yea, but you can support it off of 4 bases.
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On February 19 2011 13:59 Dommk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2011 13:54 Orome wrote:On February 19 2011 13:54 Inky87 wrote:On February 19 2011 13:51 Orome wrote:
Idra and Artosis are calling the 2 base colossus void ray imbalanced, but on maps where P can actually get a third and even a fourth doing (Shakuras, meta cross spots, I'd assume the GSL maps) it it just becomes ridiculous. I'd be extremely surprised if ogsJ manages to win this. With the amount of voidrays he has, he doesnt have that big a ground army. With enough mutalisks, he should be able to take them down. If you're on 3 or more bases, you max out with stalkers instead of zealots and mutas melt ridiculously fast. Khaldor's just wrong on this. No you cant, even vs Muta/ling from the very start it is very tricky getting the exact Stalker numbers, and eventually you HAVE to tech to Storm to deal with muta, let alone trying to get enough stalkers when you have dumped 70% of your gas into Voidrays and Colossus
You already have 2 stargates up for phoenix. Yes, a muta switch can be good if it catches the toss at unawares, but I don't think it's a stable solution.
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damn nice jukes by Strifecro
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Haha and it's Shakuras cross positions next. I'm guessing we'll see exactly the same thing as last game with exactly the same result.
I don't want to derail this thread too much btw, I'm not claiming imbalance just yet, I just think it's really really hard for Z to deal with from my own experience and watching a LOT of pro games. I haven't seen a Z having any good solutions for it yet (except hydra drop before the first colossus is out, but that's not a very stable solution either).
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I think what a lot of zergs fail to do is keep the protoss tech unit numbers down or abuse the immobility.
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Well you can't really use that battle as an example since Strife gave his Brood Lords away for nothing.
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Someone needs to invent a way to display which games being shown on which streams. I'm trying to think of a way to get this to work.
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WOW strifecro.... how to throw a game away 101 right here :|
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What's StrifeCro doing? Mass ling/infestor without NP against colossi?
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If he did an ultra switch instead of remaxing with lings?
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I whip my hair back and forth!
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On February 19 2011 14:08 Inky87 wrote:
I think what a lot of zergs fail to do is keep the protoss tech unit numbers down or abuse the immobility.
Morrow is phenomenal @ constantly exchanging units but watch his craftcup games today vs seiplo.
Protoss is WAY more mobile then zerg.
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Not going to lie, the strife v incontrol series was pretty depressing :b
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EPT
