On January 06 2011 21:15 Armsved wrote:
Maybe Lenenock was thinking 3 gate expand, but more likely he was thinking blink stalkers. No sentry, double gas and well xel naga caverns.

Correcto mondo.

DarKFoRcE

Germany1215 Posts

January 06 2011 12:16 GMT

#1063

its hard to have enough eco to win a macrogame vs 3 gate expand and still be able to hold off all sorts of 1 base shenanigans. leenock took a risk and it didnt work out.

Asha

United Kingdom38257 Posts

January 06 2011 12:17 GMT

#1064

On January 06 2011 21:14 Corrupted wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yeah...really disappointing. Is the structure change contributing to this?

I'd say there's actually been somewhat less cheese and all ins overall this season tbh; Rainbow's the first player I can think of this season who actually pulled a significant number of workers to attack....and well, a 4 gate is a 4gate, it's just a very strong build.

Highways

Australia6105 Posts

January 06 2011 12:17 GMT

#1065

I defend 4 gates ten times better than that lol.

Getting early roach warren is essential for zerg, unless you overload scout that it is not a 4 gate rush.

utyske

Denmark185 Posts

January 06 2011 12:17 GMT

#1066

On January 06 2011 21:13 poor newb wrote:
GSL, nothing but all-ins and 4 gates everyday

Not true, there have been some great macro games. Take a look at SlayerS_BoxeR's games from tuesday.

Kamais_Ookin

Canada4218 Posts

January 06 2011 12:17 GMT

#1067

On January 06 2011 21:15 zDUST wrote:

Show nested quote +

you expect each game to be a 30 min epic macro game? a win is a win is a win, gg wp.

No I don't expect that, but at the same time all these 5 minute games are shit.

Telcontar

United Kingdom16710 Posts

January 06 2011 12:17 GMT

#1068

Basically, if you don't scout the 4 gate, you're dead. That is unless you somehow felt or guessed it. However, blindly making defenses can put you quite behind economically so it's no wonder zergs are relunctant to do it.

Durp

Canada3117 Posts

January 06 2011 12:17 GMT

#1069

On January 06 2011 21:15 corpsepose wrote:

Show nested quote +

l o l
did you even watch that game ? that was just ridiculous. you'd be hard pressed to find any zerg that couldve held that off and emerged with any kind of chance to remain in the game.

Artosis actually just explained how to scout pressure from your early scout in ZvP.
This push is not that hard to hold; play Protoss and 4-gate on ladder 100 times yourself, and you'll never lose to it again.

sekritzzz

1515 Posts

January 06 2011 12:17 GMT

#1070

On January 06 2011 21:15 corpsepose wrote:

Show nested quote +

l o l
did you even watch that game ? that was just ridiculous. you'd be hard pressed to find any zerg that couldve held that off and emerged with any kind of chance to remain in the game.

you'd also be hard pressed to find any toss that can play at genius' level. Your point?

ccHaZaRd

Canada1024 Posts

January 06 2011 12:17 GMT

#1071

On January 06 2011 21:16 Caphe wrote:

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Watch Sen's game in previous GSL. Hold a 4 gate off while Tasteless already expect Sen to GG

on blistering sands as well

wxwx

527 Posts

January 06 2011 12:17 GMT

#1072

I don't think he went into the game planning on 4-gate all-in. He saw the zerg hatch first freely without being pylon blocked or anything so he wanted to decide the game asap (he was behind at that point). With the far positions, 4 gate was a good way to do it.

bkrow

Australia8532 Posts

January 06 2011 12:18 GMT

#1073

On January 06 2011 21:15 corpsepose wrote:

Show nested quote +

l o l
did you even watch that game ? that was just ridiculous. you'd be hard pressed to find any zerg that couldve held that off and emerged with any kind of chance to remain in the game.

Right.. so poor decision making (i.e. no early roach warren, droning to hard) means Genius has an unbeatable build..

You are correct; he executed it really nicely - but i wouldn't say unbeatable?

usethis2

2164 Posts

January 06 2011 12:18 GMT

#1074

On January 06 2011 21:15 Armsved wrote:
Maybe Lenenock was thinking 3 gate expand, but more likely he was thinking blink stalkers. No sentry, double gas and well xel naga caverns.

Nope. Leenock was gearing up for Stargate play. Neither Artosis nor Tasteless picked up on that. Stupid them.

iamke55

United States2806 Posts

January 06 2011 12:19 GMT

#1075

The tell is pretty good, but it was discussed in the wrong context. It would be great if Leenock went for a standard speedling opening, since there is absolutely no reason for Protoss to have a stalker against that. But by going hatch before pool, he opened up Genius' option to pressure with 1 zealot and 2 stalkers which would kill a few lings, possibly force a spine, and then the stalkers would run home before zergling speed was done.

mindspike

Canada1902 Posts

January 06 2011 12:19 GMT

#1076

On January 06 2011 21:16 Caphe wrote:

Show nested quote +

Watch Sen's game in previous GSL. Hold a 4 gate off while Tasteless already expect Sen to GG

I saw that game. This 4 gate was better executed imo. Also Genius had better deception so Leenock could never really tell if it was going to be 4 gate or 3 gate expand or stargate build until Genius pushed out. Also I think Blistering Sands (iirc) is easier for zerg than Xel Naga.

rift

1819 Posts

January 06 2011 12:19 GMT

#1077

GSL All-ins
So many 4 gate, 2 rax
Why did I stay up.

I am quite worried
Starcraft 2's evolution
where is the macro?

jamesmax

Canada72 Posts

January 06 2011 12:19 GMT

#1078

I'm really dissapointed on the gsls format I think they have it backwards completely where the stronger code S players should be playing 2/3s so the better ones advance its so hard to play a variety of people in best of 1's you get people like choya winning the group because they can cheese a win out of everyone once. Where as code A I don't really care if they do group play. Also to anyone saying 4gate is wp'd, it's not its super easy to do its a free win thats the problem with sc2 so much free wins that its just becoming silly.

Durp

Canada3117 Posts

January 06 2011 12:19 GMT

#1079

On January 06 2011 21:18 bkrow wrote:

Show nested quote +

Right.. so poor decision making (i.e. no early roach warren, droning to hard) means Genius has an unbeatable build..

You are correct; he executed it really nicely - but i wouldn't say unbeatable?

Stalker first = probable pressure build
Sentry first = expand build

Droning super hard after a stalker-first for a Protoss is a mistake. Pretty simple.