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On January 06 2011 21:15 iggyfisk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 21:14 Corrupted wrote:On January 06 2011 21:13 poor newb wrote: GSL, nothing but all-ins and 4 gates everyday Yeah...really disappointing. Is the structure change contributing to this? UUUh the GSL has been rush rush rush since the first game of season 1 so no absolutely not?
I'm sorry that was a bit hasty. It's been like that since the first game of season 1 qualifiers obviously. It's the game.
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On January 06 2011 21:15 Armsved wrote: Maybe Lenenock was thinking 3 gate expand, but more likely he was thinking blink stalkers. No sentry, double gas and well xel naga caverns. Correcto mondo.
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its hard to have enough eco to win a macrogame vs 3 gate expand and still be able to hold off all sorts of 1 base shenanigans. leenock took a risk and it didnt work out.
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United Kingdom38149 Posts
On January 06 2011 21:14 Corrupted wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 21:13 poor newb wrote: GSL, nothing but all-ins and 4 gates everyday Yeah...really disappointing. Is the structure change contributing to this?
I'd say there's actually been somewhat less cheese and all ins overall this season tbh; Rainbow's the first player I can think of this season who actually pulled a significant number of workers to attack....and well, a 4 gate is a 4gate, it's just a very strong build.
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I defend 4 gates ten times better than that lol.
Getting early roach warren is essential for zerg, unless you overload scout that it is not a 4 gate rush.
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On January 06 2011 21:13 poor newb wrote: GSL, nothing but all-ins and 4 gates everyday Not true, there have been some great macro games. Take a look at SlayerS_BoxeR's games from tuesday.
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On January 06 2011 21:15 zDUST wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 21:13 Kamais_Ookin wrote: These games fucking SUCK arghhh. you expect each game to be a 30 min epic macro game? a win is a win is a win, gg wp. No I don't expect that, but at the same time all these 5 minute games are shit.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
Basically, if you don't scout the 4 gate, you're dead. That is unless you somehow felt or guessed it. However, blindly making defenses can put you quite behind economically so it's no wonder zergs are relunctant to do it.
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On January 06 2011 21:15 corpsepose wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 21:14 bkrow wrote:On January 06 2011 21:13 vrok wrote: 4gate is so stupid. But not as stupid as the people that keep losing to it.. l o l did you even watch that game ? that was just ridiculous. you'd be hard pressed to find any zerg that couldve held that off and emerged with any kind of chance to remain in the game.
Artosis actually just explained how to scout pressure from your early scout in ZvP. This push is not that hard to hold; play Protoss and 4-gate on ladder 100 times yourself, and you'll never lose to it again.
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On January 06 2011 21:15 corpsepose wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 21:14 bkrow wrote:On January 06 2011 21:13 vrok wrote: 4gate is so stupid. But not as stupid as the people that keep losing to it.. l o l did you even watch that game ? that was just ridiculous. you'd be hard pressed to find any zerg that couldve held that off and emerged with any kind of chance to remain in the game. you'd also be hard pressed to find any toss that can play at genius' level. Your point?
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On January 06 2011 21:16 Caphe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 21:13 mindspike wrote: lol, I would like to see ANY zerg beat that...wtf Watch Sen's game in previous GSL. Hold a 4 gate off while Tasteless already expect Sen to GG
on blistering sands as well
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I don't think he went into the game planning on 4-gate all-in. He saw the zerg hatch first freely without being pylon blocked or anything so he wanted to decide the game asap (he was behind at that point). With the far positions, 4 gate was a good way to do it.
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Australia8532 Posts
On January 06 2011 21:15 corpsepose wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 21:14 bkrow wrote:On January 06 2011 21:13 vrok wrote: 4gate is so stupid. But not as stupid as the people that keep losing to it.. l o l did you even watch that game ? that was just ridiculous. you'd be hard pressed to find any zerg that couldve held that off and emerged with any kind of chance to remain in the game.
Right.. so poor decision making (i.e. no early roach warren, droning to hard) means Genius has an unbeatable build..
You are correct; he executed it really nicely - but i wouldn't say unbeatable?
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On January 06 2011 21:15 Armsved wrote: Maybe Lenenock was thinking 3 gate expand, but more likely he was thinking blink stalkers. No sentry, double gas and well xel naga caverns. Nope. Leenock was gearing up for Stargate play. Neither Artosis nor Tasteless picked up on that. Stupid them.
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The tell is pretty good, but it was discussed in the wrong context. It would be great if Leenock went for a standard speedling opening, since there is absolutely no reason for Protoss to have a stalker against that. But by going hatch before pool, he opened up Genius' option to pressure with 1 zealot and 2 stalkers which would kill a few lings, possibly force a spine, and then the stalkers would run home before zergling speed was done.
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On January 06 2011 21:16 Caphe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 21:13 mindspike wrote: lol, I would like to see ANY zerg beat that...wtf Watch Sen's game in previous GSL. Hold a 4 gate off while Tasteless already expect Sen to GG
I saw that game. This 4 gate was better executed imo. Also Genius had better deception so Leenock could never really tell if it was going to be 4 gate or 3 gate expand or stargate build until Genius pushed out. Also I think Blistering Sands (iirc) is easier for zerg than Xel Naga.
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GSL All-ins So many 4 gate, 2 rax Why did I stay up.
I am quite worried Starcraft 2's evolution where is the macro?
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I'm really dissapointed on the gsls format I think they have it backwards completely where the stronger code S players should be playing 2/3s so the better ones advance its so hard to play a variety of people in best of 1's you get people like choya winning the group because they can cheese a win out of everyone once. Where as code A I don't really care if they do group play. Also to anyone saying 4gate is wp'd, it's not its super easy to do its a free win thats the problem with sc2 so much free wins that its just becoming silly.
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On January 06 2011 21:18 bkrow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 21:15 corpsepose wrote:On January 06 2011 21:14 bkrow wrote:On January 06 2011 21:13 vrok wrote: 4gate is so stupid. But not as stupid as the people that keep losing to it.. l o l did you even watch that game ? that was just ridiculous. you'd be hard pressed to find any zerg that couldve held that off and emerged with any kind of chance to remain in the game. Right.. so poor decision making (i.e. no early roach warren, droning to hard) means Genius has an unbeatable build.. You are correct; he executed it really nicely - but i wouldn't say unbeatable?
Stalker first = probable pressure build Sentry first = expand build
Droning super hard after a stalker-first for a Protoss is a mistake. Pretty simple.
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On January 06 2011 21:17 Kamais_Ookin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 21:15 zDUST wrote:On January 06 2011 21:13 Kamais_Ookin wrote: These games fucking SUCK arghhh. you expect each game to be a 30 min epic macro game? a win is a win is a win, gg wp. No I don't expect that, but at the same time all these 5 minute games are shit. you mean shit scouting/reacting/defending?
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