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On November 30 2010 02:01 AyJay wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2010 00:58 Liquid`HayprO wrote:On November 30 2010 00:26 Markwerf wrote:Ret simply didn't deserve to go through, he played quite bad. He simply didn't adopt to the terran's playstyle at all. + Show Spoiler +
Game 1 he took a risky broodlord tech, decent option against mech terran but he was a bit slow with it imo. If terran took the natural and the 3rd and then went viking Ret actually would have lost probably. His first reaction with the roaches was horrible as he took a WAY too long route with the roaches to come from the back getting the other roaches killed already before arriving.
Game 2 he played extremely greedy again. Even losing some stuff to the first poke off 1 base and then simply dying to banshee's. Why didn't he try to change up his game for 1 game or something at least, also his ovie scouting wasn't too good here.
Game 3 he should have held easily with the way jungle basin lets you protect the ramp. All he had for the first attack was basically queens and like 4 lings and it seems like he was completely surprised. Afterwards he kept scouting T had no expo yet he went muta anyway and droned up too much. He was constantly late getting (bane)lings in this matchup which lost him the game.
As for map pool, he can't really complain. Sure steppes is pretty awful (and almost every zerg got it coindedentally, as if they try to balance the results through maps a bit) but meta cross is about the best for Z and jungle basin is quite fine too.
finally someone saying this. i totally agree with u. can we be friends? Your saying Ret played bad, but at least he doesn't die to marine push due to lack of scouting
lol dude really.....
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On November 30 2010 01:22 Liquid`Ret wrote:
not worth it
Hey, come on. It was your first GSL. Just because you didn't win it doesn't mean it's not worth trying again. You almost won and are clearly amongst the best.
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Shame about Ret getting knocked out an all-in Terran player.
Also, Steppes of War and Jungle Basin should be removed asap. Although Ret didn't lose game 3 to map imbalance, SoW is a freelose for Zerg. Sort out the mappool/vetoing system, GSL.
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Man I am loving all the Stargate play this GSL.
And while I agree that part of why Carriers worked was simply because they're so unexpected, i actually think they're reasonably viable on any map that has has an extremely easy to defend natural. 2-base carrier with some air weapons upgrades is devastating, its just so damn slow to tech to it leaves you incredibly vulnerable. But on a map where defending your nat is trivially easy, it can work. I'm not saying that Carriers will take over the metagame or anything, but I don't think this strat is quite as gimmicky as some people seem to be assuming.
I hope Guinea Pig goes for his Stargate PvZ build tomorrow. It'd be nice to see Stargate play really take off.
as for Ret...
sucks that he lost, but he played greedy and made some mistakes. It happens. Unless you're a Toss like Guinea Pig who does some absurdly greedy build like 18 Nexus 37 Stargate, chances are you don't want to just let a Zerg fast expand without punishing him. If you're gonna be greedy, you need to be prepared to defend it, and Ret wasn't. Zerg doesn't have some intrinsic right to just go for a fast hatch every game without consequences. If people are upset about Terran all-ins, then maybe they should get better at defending against them, even if that means playing a safer, less greedy build. July's build, for example, gave very respectable econ without being half as vulnerable as Ret was.
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On November 30 2010 02:01 AyJay wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2010 00:58 Liquid`HayprO wrote:On November 30 2010 00:26 Markwerf wrote:Ret simply didn't deserve to go through, he played quite bad. He simply didn't adopt to the terran's playstyle at all. + Show Spoiler +
Game 1 he took a risky broodlord tech, decent option against mech terran but he was a bit slow with it imo. If terran took the natural and the 3rd and then went viking Ret actually would have lost probably. His first reaction with the roaches was horrible as he took a WAY too long route with the roaches to come from the back getting the other roaches killed already before arriving.
Game 2 he played extremely greedy again. Even losing some stuff to the first poke off 1 base and then simply dying to banshee's. Why didn't he try to change up his game for 1 game or something at least, also his ovie scouting wasn't too good here.
Game 3 he should have held easily with the way jungle basin lets you protect the ramp. All he had for the first attack was basically queens and like 4 lings and it seems like he was completely surprised. Afterwards he kept scouting T had no expo yet he went muta anyway and droned up too much. He was constantly late getting (bane)lings in this matchup which lost him the game.
As for map pool, he can't really complain. Sure steppes is pretty awful (and almost every zerg got it coindedentally, as if they try to balance the results through maps a bit) but meta cross is about the best for Z and jungle basin is quite fine too.
finally someone saying this. i totally agree with u. can we be friends? Your saying Ret played bad, but at least he doesn't die to marine push due to lack of scouting
Oh my god...
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ret comeon, you have a future still. stay in korea with at least A-class.
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On November 30 2010 02:11 Yusername wrote:Hey, come on. It was your first GSL. Just because you didn't win it doesn't mean it's not worth trying again. You almost won and are clearly amongst the best.
He means he can't be fucked arguing.
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Ro32 should be good enough for A-code. There are 64 A-code players and 32 S-code players, right? 32*3 = 96. So even if you had a totally distinct Ro32 every GSL, all Ro32 players would get either S or A codes.
Snipe S-code from some scrub next season, Ret!
SoW is a freelose for Zerg From the GSL statistics from seasons 2 and 3 (so far), Steppes of War is 55% Terran favored TvZ. It's not impossible. Jungle Basin is worse for Zerg.
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On November 30 2010 02:20 koppik wrote:
Ro32 should be good enough for A-code. There are 64 A-code players and 32 S-code players, right? 32*3 = 96. So even if you had a totally distinct Ro32 every GSL, all Ro32 players would get either S or A codes.
Artosis seemed to suggest that Ret won't get A-class..
I'm not sure how certain he is of this.. but without further info, I'd trust Artosis on this.
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Sweden1068 Posts
I feel so bad for ret. =/
He totally had it!
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On November 30 2010 02:22 teacash wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2010 02:20 koppik wrote:
Ro32 should be good enough for A-code. There are 64 A-code players and 32 S-code players, right? 32*3 = 96. So even if you had a totally distinct Ro32 every GSL, all Ro32 players would get either S or A codes.
Artosis seemed to suggest that Ret won't get A-class.. I'm not sure how certain he is of this.. but without further info, I'd trust Artosis on this.
He's assuming that getting ro32 gets u to A class atleast. He's forgetting to count in the people that managed to get into ro64 twice or all 3 gsl's but did not make it further. So all in all Artosis might be right but I don't have the spreadsheet of the numbers for this to back this up.
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@ Ret
very good showing in the tournament. You did very well and I hope to see you competing in many more tournaments.
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On November 30 2010 02:18 Robstickle wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2010 02:11 Yusername wrote:On November 30 2010 01:22 Liquid`Ret wrote:
not worth it Hey, come on. It was your first GSL. Just because you didn't win it doesn't mean it's not worth trying again. You almost won and are clearly amongst the best. He means he can't be fucked arguing.
Oh, I see. Got a little worried there. Silly me. 
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Keep it up Ret! Hup holland hup!
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On November 30 2010 02:38 [ur]Chin wrote:
Haypro and Ret Fighting!
Lol'd a little.
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United States22883 Posts
Sorry Ret.  Not sure what to say about the games, just that I'll still be supporting you next time.
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which game had carriers in it?
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i think idra early game defence is better than rets
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Tch. Annoying Ret had to get a 2:0. Knowing our luck with foreigners Best is going to get rolled next round. -.-
It'll be sad if this means we're not gonig to see more Liquid Ret.
Atleast the Hongun match made up for the night. The great thing about protoss games right now is that they are such miracles that almost every game is epic.
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EPT
