EPTOn November 16 2010 18:58 MrKn4rz wrote:
You believe everything you see in Television dont you?
You believe everything you see in Television dont you?
Vegetarians have been known to have weaker immune systems.
[GSL] S3 Qualifiers D2 - Page 228
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Silidons
United States2813 Posts
Vegetarians have been known to have weaker immune systems. | ||
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Razyel
295 Posts
Who's asking the question ''Who is Artosis? '' Day[9] is laughing so hard and Incontrol well is just being himself proving once again that hot chicks love funny guys. | ||
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Al Bundy
7257 Posts
On November 16 2010 19:19 kmkg wrote: Fake BoxeR qualifies! Oh my... Oh my... I can't wait to see what new strats and tactics he'll manage to pull off  | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
On November 16 2010 18:45 EGalex wrote: + Show Spoiler + Hey Everyone, This is my first post on TL - long time reader, though (I don't usually participate on forums). For those of you who don't know me (probably, erm, every one of you), I'm the owner of Evil Geniuses... for those of you who watched the EG Masters' Cup stream so brilliantly produced by EG.SirScoots, I was "That Guy Behind The Broadcast Desk Who Didn't Want To Be On Cam." I've been involved in pro gaming for a long time now, and I decided to register my account on TL just now because I all of a sudden find this thread very problematic. As everyone here is probably aware, TL is a juggernaut SC entity in eSports, and "wears two hats," so to say, as both a professional team and a coverage website. Some would argue that its influence as a coverage website and community stretches further than the influence of its pro players. In any case, obviously the two identities are intertwined and overlap to a certain extent. Moving on (finally) to my point: as a very important, influential coverage hub focusing on what is currently pro gaming's most prevalent community, you can't be censoring players' names. I don't want to jump the gun and start waving around the "journalistic integrity" card prematurely, but I think it's pretty significant. Sure, TL isn't ESPN (yet), and sure, this is a forum-embedded community news piece updated by a very dedicated TL community member (for which I am grateful), but those - to me - are no excuse for throwing high standards of unbiased journalism to the side. It doesn't matter whether this is a forum post or a front-page news piece: you can't be censoring players' names or clan names just because they beat a community favorite. Unfortunately, this pattern isn't necessarily restricted to this particular thread. There is a very minor (albeit certainly noticeable) trend on TL of posters only ensuring that Liquid pro players have their clan name mentioned - I.E. HuK is always referred to in TL coverage as Liquid`HuK, whereas SeleCt, for example, has always been just "SeleCt" and never "Dignitas.SeleCt" (at least as far as I've seen). This seems to vary based on the player and the community's familiarity with said player - IdrA, for example, is always referred to be the TL coverage folks as "EGIdrA" (we at EG are thankful for this) - but it is certainly a consistent trend. TL players are always referred to as TL players, but players from other pro teams don't necessarily always have their team name attached to their alias. This is, of course, certainly *not* a case of intentional bias, and I'm not insinuating that it is in any way (I recently met Nazgul and several other TL executives at Blizzcon, and they held themselves with the utmost integrity and professionalism). At the end of the day, like many in this thread have pointed out, this is TL's home territory, and those covering competitions here ensure, first and foremost, that they point out what's going on with TL pro players. However, with that being said, sometimes intent is irrelevant (or close to it) when discussing matters of this matter - I.E., is neglecting to put in the care/effort to refer to SeleCt (for example) as Dignitas.SeleCt really any better than intentionally leaving out the team name? Maybe marginally better... but maybe not at all. To summarize this already too-long post, I think it's really important for everyone in this community to remember that TL, while still a team website, is definitively the SC2 coverage hub of the English-speaking world. And any kind of journalistic bias here, whether intentional or unintentional, whether major or extremely minor (as minor as censoring a player's name because he beat HuK today), whether coming from an official TL coverage staff member or a dedicated community member not officially affiliated with TL, is extremely, extremely problematic. With this website getting the amount of traffic and attention that it does get (and should get), the coverage here needs to be held to high standards of journalistic integrity. And at the end of the day, sure, this is TL's home base, and favoring TL's pro players in coverage posts - if it is desired to do so - may be TL's right... but doing something just because you have the power to ("just because you can") is really a very poor justification for doing anything. (Thanks to those of you who actually read all of this) -A Edit: In the time it took me to write all of this, the censorship was removed. I think the points are still valid, though .Ultimately, this was a small joke that I feel was blown out of proportion. I confess I'm an ESPORTS fan at heart. I felt it was funny for the 10-15 minutes it was live and brought a bit of personality to my cheering in this event, I never intended it to negatively reflect on TL's reputation or journalistic integrity. Maybe some saw it as a bad joke. However, I feel it's critical to TL's personality that it's staff (especially it's volunteer staff) keep it's quirks and personality. We have a site culture here and it's one where "administrators" can be an ordinary fan along with everyone else. That is what makes TL fun for me and I feel it'd greatly hurt everyone's experience here if we cannot make a 10 minute joke about someone beating one of our favorite players. I feel this is a "no harm no foul" situation and I don't believe there is a slippery slope argument leading to us censoring out Clide's clantag because he beat Ret in the GSL Finals or something. If you take a look at every single news post in the past six months, we've made it a point to include every single clan tag (look at the GSL coverage). Do we miss some? Sure. But every site misses clan tags sometimes -- TL and EG's sites both do. If there is an issue with not including enough clan tags, for example Dignitas for Select, then we can certainly fix that. I just don't see the issue here because a) motbob is not official TL staff at the time of this thread creation, and b) even Select himself doesn't use his Dignitas tag on all Bnet servers. If we miss mentioning a team it's certainly not any sort of intentional malice aimed at promoting Liquid over other teams, it's just an accidental oversight. Especially when most thread OPs are created by users who are understandably more familiar with Liquid players than any other team. If you feel EG (or any team) is being overlooked, feel free to shoot us a PM and we can fix that right away. Thanks for your feedback. | ||
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Spidinko
Slovakia1174 Posts
On November 16 2010 19:15 ghostnuke1234 wrote: TL has an obligation to represent western values, and therefore, impartial western standards of journalism. I am confounded why TL would censor the player would defeated Huk ... there is nothing to censor as players winning and losing is a fact of SC2 and BW. Tell me where is this censorship you speak of. | ||
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justinpal
United States3810 Posts
On November 16 2010 19:20 AlBundy wrote: Oh my... Oh my... I can't wait to see what new strats and tactics he'll manage to pull off I hope we see new strats that is...I am not expecting it. | ||
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dcemuser
United States3248 Posts
On November 16 2010 19:20 Razyel wrote: Who's asking the question ''Who is Artosis? '' Day[9] is laughing so hard and Incontrol well is just being himself proving once again that hot chicks love funny guys. PsyStarcraft is asking it. Artosis asked the week before "Who's PsyStarcraft?" when they announced Psy would be on next week's episode, so Psy decided to ask a counterquestion as a joke. | ||
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Nihilnovi
Sweden696 Posts
Just my theory ^^ | ||
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puppy pizza
United States18 Posts
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LittLeD
Sweden7973 Posts
On November 16 2010 19:17 SiDX wrote: Lyn and moon! Hopefully they actually prepare a lot this time there is so much more money to be made in SC2 than in WC3  But I dont want Wc3 to dieeeeee | ||
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Kyuki
Sweden1867 Posts
On November 16 2010 19:13 arQ wrote: Sigh. I guess the general community member is not ready to help move western e-sport up a notch. The problem lies within the topic, not the idea. EGalex's post was made in the wrong bloody thread and I can't help but feel that he's missunderstood the difference between a community post and something "official". The way TL works and how it runs by its own memberbase is what makes this great and also why we get so much intel. Should we cease this and/or make everyone work "professionally" shit would die very fast. Anyway, GO TESTER! | ||
bkrow
Australia8532 Posts
On November 16 2010 19:20 Hot_Bid wrote: Ultimately, this was a small joke that I feel was blown out of proportion. I confess I'm an ESPORTS fan at heart. I felt it was funny for the 10-15 minutes it was live and brought a bit of personality to my cheering in this event, I never intended it to negatively reflect on TL's reputation or journalistic integrity. Maybe some saw it as a bad joke. However, I feel it's critical to TL's personality that it's staff (especially it's volunteer staff) keep it's quirks and personality. We have a site culture here and it's one where "administrators" can be an ordinary fan along with everyone else. That is what makes TL fun for me and I feel it'd greatly hurt everyone's experience here if we cannot make a 10 minute joke about someone beating one of our favorite players. I feel this is a "no harm no foul" situation and I don't believe there is a slippery slope argument leading to us censoring out Clide's clantag because he beat Ret in the GSL Finals or something. If you take a look at every single news post in the past six months, we've made it a point to include every single clan tag (look at the GSL coverage). Do we miss some? Sure. But every site misses clan tags sometimes -- TL and EG's sites both do. If there is an issue with not including enough clan tags, for example Dignitas for Select, then we can certainly fix that. I just don't see the issue here because a) motbob is not official TL staff at the time of this thread creation, and b) even Select himself doesn't use his Dignitas tag on all Bnet servers. If we miss mentioning a team it's certainly not any sort of intentional malice aimed at promoting Liquid over other teams, it's just an accidental oversight. Especially when most thread OPs are created by users who are understandably more familiar with Liquid players than any other team. If you feel EG (or any team) is being overlooked, feel free to shoot us a PM and we can fix that right away. Thanks for your feedback. Now that is wat u called pwnt; TL hwaiiiiting.. User was warned for this post | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
That is what a live report thread is for. I had the same issue, when Huk lost I was scrolling through 25 pages of NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO trying to find the name of who beat him, chekcing the OP didn't help since you guys wrote [Censored] following his name, I luckily f5'd 25 minutes later to see that it finally wrote his name, temporarily. Alex wasn't saying that EG is a beacon of fucking light, why are you guys all trying to spin it off as that argument? His point is that if you're going to write on the banner "Starcraft Progaming News" and stick a live report thread, which is the epitomy of SC progaming news, then maybe some integrity should be left wiht the original post at least letting us know who qualified and who didn't. I love jokes as much as the next guy but i literally f5'd after 15 minutes off my keyboard and there were 70 new pages talking about how idra qualified and huk didn't. If I'm trying to get my progaming news to see who beat huk, isn't that fair to ask for? I'm not here to bitch about it though, I'd rather have th eformat that we're given by the fucking AMAZING motbob who's been doing shit like this since day 1 that I've been lurking teamliquid, the guy is incredible, I'd rather have this format than none, but I guess my point is all alex was asking for was to see a little less censoring out of names of people just because they beat huk. lol. | ||
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ZapRoffo
United States5544 Posts
On November 16 2010 19:21 puppy pizza wrote: So what's the deal with Tester? Probably in the last set of games, along with Genius, Select, Tasteless, July | ||
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estee
Korea (South)449 Posts
On November 16 2010 19:21 puppy pizza wrote: So what's the deal with Tester? He's in Group D (not sure if 1 or 2) and hasn't played yet I believe. Edit: seems like round 1 is underway. | ||
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Grend
1600 Posts
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arQ
1033 Posts
On November 16 2010 19:16 HolyArrow wrote: Yeah, it's sad seeing such sheer and rude opposition to EGalex's post. He made a great point, and it's sad that people don't understand the message he was trying to communicate and can only see the little picture. Oh, and to everyone suddenly going to EG's website and trying to make EGalex out as being a total hypocrite, true, they could have had clan tags on player names, but 1. The EG website, in terms of popularity, is NOTHING compared to TL. TL is a massive community and news hub for all things BW/SC2. 2. If people actually read EGalex's post carefully, the clan tag thing was only a small part of what he was trying to say. He also made points about practicing more journalistic integrity and professionalism. It's sad how people are stuck on "ololol EG's website doesn't have clan tags, all your points are invalid". Exactly. I think my point about the maturity of the general community member is proven by the fact that most of the remarks to his points centeres around the clantags issue. Way to not see the big picture... | ||
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Zeles
United States335 Posts
Are there any updates on SelecT? | ||
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tyrless
United States485 Posts
On November 16 2010 19:13 EGalex wrote: Definitely a good point... but my counter-point would be that there's such a massive disparity between the size and scope of TL and the size and scope of EG's website at the moment that, while EG is still within the confines of a relatively small, team-specific website, TL shattered that a long time ago, and now wears the dual hat of team website and community coverage hub. Our website doesn't cover any competition or match, in any game that doesn't involve one of our players, whereas TL is currently the ESPN.com (Europeans/Canadians: forgive me for using an American sports analogy) of StarCraft. So I'd argue that since we're so much smaller, and we're in no way trying to be a coverage website or serving any other purpose than updating our team's fans on our own players, the standards are different. Still, fair point, and duly noted. Well now your argument is on very thin ice, you're now proposing that TL should stop/change the ways by which it/they have come to be so popular (although the 'errant ways' which you cited have already been debunked, such as Select himself not putting his clan in his username which means the TL AND EG nomenclature is technically accurate), but the EG website is exempt from these principles because its popularity dictates its methods, not the other way around? Your hyperbolic rhetoric ("extremely problematic"? give me a break) doesn't help legitimize your complaint it only distracts from the seriousness of the argument. | ||
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WeeKeong
United States282 Posts
It's a forum where users make treads. Starcraft2 is an E-sport. All sports forums have tonnes and tonnes of unprofessionalism/bias/flaming of actual players/trolling in them. TL has one of the least. TL could aim to be purely an informative site with no opinions, but that would be the end of TL. Instead, we should appreciate the TL community for what it is, for how great a site it is compared to 99% other sports/e-sports sites out there. Also, your example of ESPN is bad. They are known for having the most biased articles and reports (for the NBA anyway). | ||
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