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[GSL] S3 Qualifiers D2 - Page 230

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Al Bundy
Profile Joined April 2010
7257 Posts
November 16 2010 10:31 GMT
#4581
Ok it's 11:30AM I'm going to bed now.

Thanks for keeping the thread updated that was a very nice LR thread.

MVP HWAITING !
o choro é livre
Logros
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands9913 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-16 10:31:40
November 16 2010 10:31 GMT
#4582
Woooooow now 2 protoss qualified today, that is 100% more then before!
fean0r
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany117 Posts
November 16 2010 10:31 GMT
#4583
On November 16 2010 19:13 EGalex wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2010 19:04 Couvre wrote:
So I go to the EG website and I notice that they don't include any clan tags when they mention names (IE: sir scoots' uploaded replays of incontrol vs nony and socke). Parity?


Definitely a good point... but my counter-point would be that there's such a massive disparity between the size and scope of TL and the size and scope of EG's website at the moment that, while EG is still within the confines of a relatively small, team-specific website, TL shattered that a long time ago, and now wears the dual hat of team website and community coverage hub. Our website doesn't cover any competition or match, in any game that doesn't involve one of our players, whereas TL is currently the ESPN.com (Europeans/Canadians: forgive me for using an American sports analogy) of StarCraft. So I'd argue that since we're so much smaller, and we're in no way trying to be a coverage website or serving any other purpose than updating our team's fans on our own players, the standards are different.

Still, fair point, and duly noted.



i really like ur first post but this is a poor argument. professional regularities depend on size and scope is just nonsense. eg demand to be a prof clan same as tl do so the same professionality is require.
puppy pizza
Profile Joined May 2010
United States18 Posts
November 16 2010 10:32 GMT
#4584
TESTER FIGHTING
Slasher
Profile Joined September 2007
United States1095 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-16 10:36:36
November 16 2010 10:32 GMT
#4585
Alex's point is of a greater scale than just the few examples he mentioned. TeamLiquid is probably the largest competitive gaming site on the entire internet - and also the only mainstay coverage hub that also acts as a worldwide team with sponsors (no team for Shoryuken, ESReality, WCReplays, HLTV, Crossfire, etc). Therefore TL has to walk a fine line with how it does it's coverage. I have personally not found any bias or problem with TL's coverage regarding really anything besides the clan tags and some minor things here and there, though.

Although the Live Report threads can be created by any user, they are designated as -the- coverage post for each day, and therefore lie on the hands of the coverage/editorial team. So all responsibilities are the same whether they're official staff or not.

As for some of the tags, here's a few to add to all the posts - fnaticSen, d.SeleCT, WE.Loner, WE.Luffy, vT.Torch, etc
DOOMy0
Profile Joined August 2010
Denmark85 Posts
November 16 2010 10:32 GMT
#4586
Alex, really... what is this nonsense xD
estee
Profile Joined November 2010
Korea (South)449 Posts
November 16 2010 10:32 GMT
#4587
Update: First rounds for Group D are underway, Group C-1 and C-2 are finishing off their final rounds. SlayerS_'BoxeR' is expected to play last.
Kyuki
Profile Joined February 2008
Sweden1867 Posts
November 16 2010 10:33 GMT
#4588
On November 16 2010 19:27 Psiven wrote:
I'm confused as to why consistent clan tags are important. You don't need to say EGIdrA over and over to know that IdrA is in EG; it's not somehow diminishing the team to talk about a player without referencing their team.

For the most part, it's just whatever their handles happen to be or whatever they happen to be known by.

I really agree with this.

When it comes to a marketing standpoint, the strongest brand is something that is related to you without having to say your name. So for example, when someone says Jaedong the brain sees the Hwaseung tag (and a bunch of titles ).

If the ID itself gets connected with the team ALL the time, I feel that both the player and the team looses out in many situations.

Mada Mada Dane
Xeteh
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States589 Posts
November 16 2010 10:33 GMT
#4589
Too tired to stay up for the rest of it.

GL to all the foreigners left to qualify. <3
Ajunta
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany522 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-16 10:34:18
November 16 2010 10:33 GMT
#4590
stop going off topic!

This is a live thread! I want to read who plays, who wins, who loses and how people feel about it!
I don't want to read about anything else in here, I don't care how important that topic is!
riboflavin
Profile Joined April 2010
United States226 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-16 10:35:46
November 16 2010 10:33 GMT
#4591
On November 16 2010 19:13 EGalex wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2010 19:04 Couvre wrote:
So I go to the EG website and I notice that they don't include any clan tags when they mention names (IE: sir scoots' uploaded replays of incontrol vs nony and socke). Parity?


Definitely a good point... but my counter-point would be that there's such a massive disparity between the size and scope of TL and the size and scope of EG's website at the moment that, while EG is still within the confines of a relatively small, team-specific website, TL shattered that a long time ago, and now wears the dual hat of team website and community coverage hub. Our website doesn't cover any competition or match, in any game that doesn't involve one of our players, whereas TL is currently the ESPN.com (Europeans/Canadians: forgive me for using an American sports analogy) of StarCraft. So I'd argue that since we're so much smaller, and we're in no way trying to be a coverage website or serving any other purpose than updating our team's fans on our own players, the standards are different.

Still, fair point, and duly noted.


Your posts, while quasi-rationale and showing some evidence of reasoning, still fail to consider the basic facts. This gross oversight makes your point look like a pile of garbage - and subsequently causes me to dislike you and your team.

1. The forum posters spending their time following the GSL quals have no responsibility to adhere to your, or any, journalistic standards; they are members, not owners.

2. TL website disclaimer/rules have a pretty clear set of statements that cover this now-proven-to- be hypocritical complaint.

3. You posted a massive and highly subjective grievance in a GSL results/updates thread, (rather than making use of the website feedback section). Way to say 'thanks' to the people working to keep up updated.

4. You are using analogies to rationalize your point rather than factual supporting points. Gross.

5. Idra is on your team. You forfeit your right to fair and just treatment.

6. You hijacked a thread I liked and caused me to respond a second time.

7. Numbers are fun, but I have to stop at some point.

8. Really stopping now.

User was warned for this post
WeeKeong
Profile Joined October 2010
United States282 Posts
November 16 2010 10:33 GMT
#4592
On November 16 2010 19:30 Corrupted wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2010 19:28 hugman wrote:
Sucks that Huk didn't make it but you can't blame the draw unless you play someone like FoxeR. IdrA qualified 3 times. HuK can probably do it if he stays in Korea.


nope, but we can certainly blame the garbage map pool.

It's scrap against terran, not zerg. Sad that he didn't qualify, but he chose to mass collosi even though they could be sniped from 9 range vikings in space that can't be attacked by stalkers.
theherder2
Profile Joined September 2010
United States538 Posts
November 16 2010 10:34 GMT
#4593
So out of C-1 choyafOu and OptimusPrime (FoxeR) are in, who are the otherS? I remember GoldenfOu from clan wars, who is he playing?
darmousseh
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3437 Posts
November 16 2010 10:34 GMT
#4594
GokuHuk got killed off right now, but some training in korea should help him come back and improve immediately.
Developer for http://mtgfiddle.com
ottersareneat
Profile Joined November 2010
United States55 Posts
November 16 2010 10:34 GMT
#4595
On November 16 2010 19:20 Hot_Bid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2010 18:45 EGalex wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Hey Everyone,

This is my first post on TL - long time reader, though (I don't usually participate on forums). For those of you who don't know me (probably, erm, every one of you), I'm the owner of Evil Geniuses... for those of you who watched the EG Masters' Cup stream so brilliantly produced by EG.SirScoots, I was "That Guy Behind The Broadcast Desk Who Didn't Want To Be On Cam." I've been involved in pro gaming for a long time now, and I decided to register my account on TL just now because I all of a sudden find this thread very problematic.

As everyone here is probably aware, TL is a juggernaut SC entity in eSports, and "wears two hats," so to say, as both a professional team and a coverage website. Some would argue that its influence as a coverage website and community stretches further than the influence of its pro players. In any case, obviously the two identities are intertwined and overlap to a certain extent.

Moving on (finally) to my point: as a very important, influential coverage hub focusing on what is currently pro gaming's most prevalent community, you can't be censoring players' names. I don't want to jump the gun and start waving around the "journalistic integrity" card prematurely, but I think it's pretty significant. Sure, TL isn't ESPN (yet), and sure, this is a forum-embedded community news piece updated by a very dedicated TL community member (for which I am grateful), but those - to me - are no excuse for throwing high standards of unbiased journalism to the side. It doesn't matter whether this is a forum post or a front-page news piece: you can't be censoring players' names or clan names just because they beat a community favorite.

Unfortunately, this pattern isn't necessarily restricted to this particular thread. There is a very minor (albeit certainly noticeable) trend on TL of posters only ensuring that Liquid pro players have their clan name mentioned - I.E. HuK is always referred to in TL coverage as Liquid`HuK, whereas SeleCt, for example, has always been just "SeleCt" and never "Dignitas.SeleCt" (at least as far as I've seen). This seems to vary based on the player and the community's familiarity with said player - IdrA, for example, is always referred to be the TL coverage folks as "EGIdrA" (we at EG are thankful for this) - but it is certainly a consistent trend. TL players are always referred to as TL players, but players from other pro teams don't necessarily always have their team name attached to their alias.

This is, of course, certainly *not* a case of intentional bias, and I'm not insinuating that it is in any way (I recently met Nazgul and several other TL executives at Blizzcon, and they held themselves with the utmost integrity and professionalism). At the end of the day, like many in this thread have pointed out, this is TL's home territory, and those covering competitions here ensure, first and foremost, that they point out what's going on with TL pro players. However, with that being said, sometimes intent is irrelevant (or close to it) when discussing matters of this matter - I.E., is neglecting to put in the care/effort to refer to SeleCt (for example) as Dignitas.SeleCt really any better than intentionally leaving out the team name? Maybe marginally better... but maybe not at all.

To summarize this already too-long post, I think it's really important for everyone in this community to remember that TL, while still a team website, is definitively the SC2 coverage hub of the English-speaking world. And any kind of journalistic bias here, whether intentional or unintentional, whether major or extremely minor (as minor as censoring a player's name because he beat HuK today), whether coming from an official TL coverage staff member or a dedicated community member not officially affiliated with TL, is extremely, extremely problematic. With this website getting the amount of traffic and attention that it does get (and should get), the coverage here needs to be held to high standards of journalistic integrity.

And at the end of the day, sure, this is TL's home base, and favoring TL's pro players in coverage posts - if it is desired to do so - may be TL's right... but doing something just because you have the power to ("just because you can") is really a very poor justification for doing anything.

(Thanks to those of you who actually read all of this)

-A

Edit: In the time it took me to write all of this, the censorship was removed. I think the points are still valid, though .

Ultimately, this was a small joke that I feel was blown out of proportion. I confess I'm an ESPORTS fan at heart. I felt it was funny for the 10-15 minutes it was live and brought a bit of personality to my cheering in this event, I never intended it to negatively reflect on TL's reputation or journalistic integrity. Maybe some saw it as a bad joke.

However, I feel it's critical to TL's personality that it's staff (especially it's volunteer staff) keep it's quirks and personality. We have a site culture here and it's one where "administrators" can be an ordinary fan along with everyone else. That is what makes TL fun for me and I feel it'd greatly hurt everyone's experience here if we cannot make a 10 minute joke about someone beating one of our favorite players. I feel this is a "no harm no foul" situation and I don't believe there is a slippery slope argument leading to us censoring out Clide's clantag because he beat Ret in the GSL Finals or something.

If you take a look at every single news post in the past six months, we've made it a point to include every single clan tag (look at the GSL coverage). Do we miss some? Sure. But every site misses clan tags sometimes -- TL and EG's sites both do. If there is an issue with not including enough clan tags, for example Dignitas for Select, then we can certainly fix that. I just don't see the issue here because a) motbob is not official TL staff at the time of this thread creation, and b) even Select himself doesn't use his Dignitas tag on all Bnet servers.

If we miss mentioning a team it's certainly not any sort of intentional malice aimed at promoting Liquid over other teams, it's just an accidental oversight. Especially when most thread OPs are created by users who are understandably more familiar with Liquid players than any other team. If you feel EG (or any team) is being overlooked, feel free to shoot us a PM and we can fix that right away.

Thanks for your feedback.


Thanks for the reply. I agree, you guys are 100% accurate with clan tags for GSL competitions, but I think if you take a look back through your history of North American competitions (and I use the word "your" liberally here, as I'm not sure in retrospect if those posts were done by official TL folks, or just dedicated community members) such as MLG events, you'll see that a ton of clan tags are missing.

Anyway, I'll shoot you a PM and continue the conversation there.

Also, thanks to everyone who replied (favorably and unfavorably). This'll be my last post, but I wanted to make one point before I go.

A lot of you guys are saying that my criticisms are invalid because so much of TL's coverage (this thread, for example) is community-based and generated by community members who aren't officially part of TL. This is not a valid counterpoint to my arguments - but it is, however, a very important observation about the nature of "coverage" and "news" on TL. We're now in an era of journalism and reporting in which a piece doesn't have to be "official" to be coverage. So, while some of you guys are essentially saying, "This isn't coverage - it's a forum thread and therefore you're wrong," I'd make the simple point: the two are not mutually exclusive anymore. It's both a forum thread and a coverage piece. I'd like to think that anyone in this community with enough dedication and passion to contribute to it via doing this kind of forum-based coverage would also apply that kind of dedication and passion to their approach to said community-based journalism.
i like otters because they're neat and they hold hands while swimming backward.
LittLeD
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden7973 Posts
November 16 2010 10:34 GMT
#4596
Foxer qualified!
☆Grubby ☆| Tod|DeMusliM|ThorZaiN|SaSe|Moon|Mana| ☆HerO ☆
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
November 16 2010 10:35 GMT
#4597
Okay guys can we get back to the games please =/
We don't need to have Alex's post quoted any more. If he's got an issue he can contact us directly or create a new thread about it. This isn't the thread to discuss it.
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
estee
Profile Joined November 2010
Korea (South)449 Posts
November 16 2010 10:35 GMT
#4598
On November 16 2010 19:34 theherder2 wrote:
So out of C-1 choyafOu and OptimusPrime (FoxeR) are in, who are the otherS? I remember GoldenfOu from clan wars, who is he playing?


Undecided.
MrKn4rz
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany2153 Posts
November 16 2010 10:35 GMT
#4599
On November 16 2010 19:19 Silidons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2010 18:58 MrKn4rz wrote:
On November 16 2010 18:29 zivac wrote:
artosis is vegetarian, it is real reason why he gets sick so often

You believe everything you see in Television dont you?

Vegetarians have been known to have weaker immune systems.


Its simply not true.
Almost every Case where Vegetariens where found to have a weaker Immune system, were cases, where they simply suffered from malnutrition because of totaly different reason.

Also, if u eat Meat ur risk of getting a heart Attack is much higher.
Every truth has to sides and in the Media you hardly get to know the hole story.

Going to bed now... Sorry again for Offtopic.
"We don't take kindly to folks who don't take kindly around here..."
theherder2
Profile Joined September 2010
United States538 Posts
November 16 2010 10:35 GMT
#4600
On November 16 2010 19:33 WeeKeong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2010 19:30 Corrupted wrote:
On November 16 2010 19:28 hugman wrote:
Sucks that Huk didn't make it but you can't blame the draw unless you play someone like FoxeR. IdrA qualified 3 times. HuK can probably do it if he stays in Korea.


nope, but we can certainly blame the garbage map pool.

It's scrap against terran, not zerg. Sad that he didn't qualify, but he chose to mass collosi even though they could be sniped from 9 range vikings in space that can't be attacked by stalkers.



Actually from Artosis/Incontrol interview, they agreed that Scrap is favored to both Zerg and Terran, the way it is set up.
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