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On October 26 2010 02:41 andrewlt wrote:
I think Grack has a very favorable bracket. It's actually very possible that he might only play ZvT all the way to the finals. Only practicing one match-up is much easier than having to practice all three.
True, but once he does play a ZvZ or ZvP he might not have practiced enough and therefore be may be too rusty and lose
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On October 26 2010 01:45 Beef Noodles wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 22:02 joonp wrote:On October 25 2010 21:57 shynee wrote:On October 25 2010 21:53 joonp wrote:On October 25 2010 21:50 raidmaster wrote:On October 25 2010 21:47 KingRajesh wrote:On October 25 2010 21:44 Fallen.Sc wrote:On October 25 2010 21:32 kataa wrote:On October 25 2010 21:28 Telcontar wrote:
You can't play a macro game vs zerg without constant aggression and pinning him back. Gon needs to work on that. How many times did he try and harass with hellions only go get pwned on all sides? How many times did he try and drop only to have it spotted and shut down before it even began? Everytime we see a good Zerg player win, we get so many Terrans saying "You need to be more aggressive." but the thing that makes a good zerg player is there ability to shut down harass. Yeah , it's not really a balance topic but blizzard really need to look at zerg macro mechanics , or make some change so terran can keep up in a macro game. Because 1 rax fast expand dont work zerg will get ahead by like 15 drones. And Harass don't seem that good if the zerg is not playing greedy and make 2 Spine crawler at natural with 4 roaches to kill helions and 3 queens to prevent banshee harass and spread creep faster. Even drops gets shut down by Muta / infestor creep spread and overlord placement helps a lot. Terran needs to do something NEW. The same tired strategies aren't going to work. QXC's Raven play was good enough to take a game off Idra. Put it like this: Terran right now is in Zerg's position with the Mutalisk before discovering the Magic Box. Every Terran was like "LOL THORS ARE SUPPOSED TO HARD COUNTER MUTAS, L2P"... Well, Terrans... It's your turn to L2P. Go back to the drawing board. I partly agree with you but c'mon. Magix box is not a strategy nor anything that zerg discovered using the "drawing board". I would call it a bug. I think that with increased roach range magic box should be fixed. TvZ would be at least balanced somehow. Terran players come out to whine once they get nerfed slightly. Nothing needs to be fixed, take your crying else where. I bet if someone like Boxer said something needs to be fixed, you'd be all over that. Btw, he did say something along those lines. No I wouldn't, and I don't care. Cry more now that ZvT is a more even match up? User was warned for this post No where should you read my post as whine. I am merely expressing my opinion on how to view the GSL games in regards to balance and player quality.It is very difficult to discuss balance based on performance in GSL. There are many other factors besides balance that determine the outcome of a game. IdrA and Fruitdealer have just flat out played more SC2 than either Boxer or Nada. At this early stage, I expect them to beat those old SC1 pros. That being said, Boxer and Nada are clearly AMAZING at RTS. If in a few months (if they are training hard), they still cannot take games or win series against top zergs, then there is most likely a balance issue. As the guy who makes all the Zerg "comprehensive looks." I will tell you I am VERY BIASED in favor of zerg. But, I want the game to be balanced more than anything. If top Terrans start to complain and talk about their limited options like the top zergs were, then I think the match up needs tweeking. (BTW: I mean TOP terrans. Not some recognizable "names" who have a fan-base but would get annihilated at GSL.) If Boxer is complaining in a few more weeks, even as a biased zerg player, I would say the match up favors zerg and needs to be fixed.
Terrans need to learn how to deny expansions from the Zerg and expand more. A Terran that's on even bases with a Zerg will crush the Zerg so hard it's not funny. You can't say the Terran is trying to play a macro game against the Zerg when he's staying on two bases all game long vs 4x gas and 3x mineral bases of the Zerg.
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I just woke up! Idra wins!!! made my day!!!!
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I wonder what the Korean commentators say about IdrA during his matches? What the prevailing opinion of him is in Korea?
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On October 26 2010 02:44 teacash wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 02:41 andrewlt wrote:
I think Grack has a very favorable bracket. It's actually very possible that he might only play ZvT all the way to the finals. Only practicing one match-up is much easier than having to practice all three. True, but once he does play a ZvZ or ZvP he might not have practiced enough and therefore be may be too rusty and lose
He practices on the ladder mostly though, so he will maintain plenty of ZvZ and ZvP experience.
on a different note, GOOOO IdrA Fighting! I love that kid so much!! Most awesome Z player alive (yes that includes FruitDealer)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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On October 26 2010 02:47 Cade wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 02:44 teacash wrote:On October 26 2010 02:41 andrewlt wrote:
I think Grack has a very favorable bracket. It's actually very possible that he might only play ZvT all the way to the finals. Only practicing one match-up is much easier than having to practice all three. True, but once he does play a ZvZ or ZvP he might not have practiced enough and therefore be may be too rusty and lose He practices on the ladder mostly though, so he will maintain plenty of ZvZ and ZvP experience. on a different note, GOOOO IdrA Fighting! I love that kid so much!! Most awesome Z player alive (yes that includes FruitDealer)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yeah idra is clearly the product of a lot of hard work and study (not to say he isn't massively talented also) so I think most people are happy to see him succeed
fruit dealer is awesome also, but...hard to put in words, he's like a starcraft savant. I mean, he quit to go sell fruit and comes back to win the GSL with the "weakest" race at the time. honestly, no one was even close to his skill last season (might have been a different story if it was vs tester in the finals). funny to see someone like boxer say that he was awed by fruit dealer playing at full power
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Anyone else think babybyebye will do well?, from what i have seen he is really solid
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Fantastic to see IdrA moving forward, but boy those first few matches were hard to watch!
Should be interesting to see how well Loner does tomorrow 
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On October 26 2010 02:54 zzaaxxsscd wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 02:47 Cade wrote:On October 26 2010 02:44 teacash wrote:On October 26 2010 02:41 andrewlt wrote:
I think Grack has a very favorable bracket. It's actually very possible that he might only play ZvT all the way to the finals. Only practicing one match-up is much easier than having to practice all three. True, but once he does play a ZvZ or ZvP he might not have practiced enough and therefore be may be too rusty and lose He practices on the ladder mostly though, so he will maintain plenty of ZvZ and ZvP experience. on a different note, GOOOO IdrA Fighting! I love that kid so much!! Most awesome Z player alive (yes that includes FruitDealer)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yeah idra is clearly the product of a lot of hard work and study (not to say he isn't massively talented also) so I think most people are happy to see him succeed fruit dealer is awesome also, but...hard to put in words, he's like a starcraft savant. I mean, he quit to go sell fruit and comes back to win the GSL with the "weakest" race at the time. honestly, no one was even close to his skill last season (might have been a different story if it was vs tester in the finals). funny to see someone like boxer say that he was awed by fruit dealer playing at full power
Haha yeah FruitDealer is an amazing player as well, and I'm a huge huge fan of FruitDealer. I was just adding that in there because I have so much respect for FruitDealer, so that my point would have more impact =D
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SanZenith a perfect example how nerves, psychological pressure and fearsome opponent can screw up your play. Honestly I felt so bad for him, hopefully he took lesson and will put it in good use (read: do not cannon your nexus space !)...
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On October 26 2010 00:12 Heimatloser wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 00:07 teacash wrote:On October 25 2010 23:51 Heimatloser wrote:On October 25 2010 23:44 teacash wrote:On October 25 2010 23:39 Heimatloser wrote:
Percentage of Korean Players that where eliminated in RO64:
31 of 62 = 50%
Percentage of non-Korean Players eliminated in RO64:
1 of 2 = 50%
to this point Korean and non Korean Players where of equal strength.
Percentage of Korean Players that where eliminated in RO32:
16 of 31 = 52%
Percentage of non-Korean Players eliminated in RO32:
0 of 1 = 0%
obviously in the RO32 non-Koreans performed waaaaaaaaaay better! Loner isn't Korean. btw, you can't say shit with statistically insignificant sample numbers.. dono why you're even trying small sample size? what the hell? 64 for players in the round of 64 is the whole lot, its everything, all. theres no statistics about this, tis is only facts! dont you come with the bullshit before even thinking! insignificant numbers... you can only say that when i take maybe 10 players out of those 64 and go with my conclusion... or when i try to make conclusions on the whole scII community with this 64 samples. but in what i said i took EVERYTHING into account. learn your math... edit: i took EVERYTHING into account except that loner isnt korean.. ;-) When you're comparing the % successes of two groups, you need significant sample sizes in EACH group.. not just a large total number.. there's 3 people in 1 group, and 61 in the other, therefore you can't make any legit comparisons.. learn your statistics don't be mad. i was sarcastic in the first place;-) Also: Yes i can!
no you weren't being sarcastic, your just dumb. stop trying, gg
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On October 26 2010 02:56 shaunnn wrote:
Anyone else think babybyebye will do well?, from what i have seen he is really solid
He has been a beast so far. TLO taking a game from him looks better and better the more I see from SangHo.
I think he or MVP will take GSL.
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On October 26 2010 03:10 papaz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 02:56 shaunnn wrote:
Anyone else think babybyebye will do well?, from what i have seen he is really solid He has been a beast so far. TLO taking a game from him looks better and better the more I see from SangHo. I think he or MVP will take GSL.
MVP's gonna lose tomorrow morning. Sorry 
SangHo could win it though.
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On October 26 2010 03:10 hkfosho wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 00:12 Heimatloser wrote:On October 26 2010 00:07 teacash wrote:On October 25 2010 23:51 Heimatloser wrote:On October 25 2010 23:44 teacash wrote:On October 25 2010 23:39 Heimatloser wrote:
Percentage of Korean Players that where eliminated in RO64:
31 of 62 = 50%
Percentage of non-Korean Players eliminated in RO64:
1 of 2 = 50%
to this point Korean and non Korean Players where of equal strength.
Percentage of Korean Players that where eliminated in RO32:
16 of 31 = 52%
Percentage of non-Korean Players eliminated in RO32:
0 of 1 = 0%
obviously in the RO32 non-Koreans performed waaaaaaaaaay better! Loner isn't Korean. btw, you can't say shit with statistically insignificant sample numbers.. dono why you're even trying small sample size? what the hell? 64 for players in the round of 64 is the whole lot, its everything, all. theres no statistics about this, tis is only facts! dont you come with the bullshit before even thinking! insignificant numbers... you can only say that when i take maybe 10 players out of those 64 and go with my conclusion... or when i try to make conclusions on the whole scII community with this 64 samples. but in what i said i took EVERYTHING into account. learn your math... edit: i took EVERYTHING into account except that loner isnt korean.. ;-) When you're comparing the % successes of two groups, you need significant sample sizes in EACH group.. not just a large total number.. there's 3 people in 1 group, and 61 in the other, therefore you can't make any legit comparisons.. learn your statistics don't be mad. i was sarcastic in the first place;-) Also: Yes i can! no you weren't being sarcastic, you're just dumb. stop trying, gg
Fixed that for you.
And frankly, it's obvious that heimatloser was going for sarcastic/absurd humor. It may have been poorly executed, but responding to that with the equivalent of "omg look at me I know the phrase 'statistically insignificant'" just looks silly.
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I already know the winner of GSL2. And it's not a Zerg, Protoss or Terran.
+ Show Spoiler +
GG GL HF
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who is idra facing in the round of 16? please be some easy push over terran please!!!
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can i watch the idra winner interview without premium?
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On October 26 2010 03:27 zak wrote:
who is idra facing in the round of 16? please be some easy push over terran please!!!
either Zenio or MVP. and MVP would not be such a terran. his games we're amazing in this GSL
On October 26 2010 03:34 Mereel wrote:
can i watch the idra winner interview without premium?
yes. http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens2/gomcam/
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On October 26 2010 02:45 heishe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 01:45 Beef Noodles wrote:On October 25 2010 22:02 joonp wrote:On October 25 2010 21:57 shynee wrote:On October 25 2010 21:53 joonp wrote:On October 25 2010 21:50 raidmaster wrote:On October 25 2010 21:47 KingRajesh wrote:On October 25 2010 21:44 Fallen.Sc wrote:On October 25 2010 21:32 kataa wrote:On October 25 2010 21:28 Telcontar wrote:
You can't play a macro game vs zerg without constant aggression and pinning him back. Gon needs to work on that. How many times did he try and harass with hellions only go get pwned on all sides? How many times did he try and drop only to have it spotted and shut down before it even began? Everytime we see a good Zerg player win, we get so many Terrans saying "You need to be more aggressive." but the thing that makes a good zerg player is there ability to shut down harass. Yeah , it's not really a balance topic but blizzard really need to look at zerg macro mechanics , or make some change so terran can keep up in a macro game. Because 1 rax fast expand dont work zerg will get ahead by like 15 drones. And Harass don't seem that good if the zerg is not playing greedy and make 2 Spine crawler at natural with 4 roaches to kill helions and 3 queens to prevent banshee harass and spread creep faster. Even drops gets shut down by Muta / infestor creep spread and overlord placement helps a lot. Terran needs to do something NEW. The same tired strategies aren't going to work. QXC's Raven play was good enough to take a game off Idra. Put it like this: Terran right now is in Zerg's position with the Mutalisk before discovering the Magic Box. Every Terran was like "LOL THORS ARE SUPPOSED TO HARD COUNTER MUTAS, L2P"... Well, Terrans... It's your turn to L2P. Go back to the drawing board. I partly agree with you but c'mon. Magix box is not a strategy nor anything that zerg discovered using the "drawing board". I would call it a bug. I think that with increased roach range magic box should be fixed. TvZ would be at least balanced somehow. Terran players come out to whine once they get nerfed slightly. Nothing needs to be fixed, take your crying else where. I bet if someone like Boxer said something needs to be fixed, you'd be all over that. Btw, he did say something along those lines. No I wouldn't, and I don't care. Cry more now that ZvT is a more even match up? User was warned for this post No where should you read my post as whine. I am merely expressing my opinion on how to view the GSL games in regards to balance and player quality.It is very difficult to discuss balance based on performance in GSL. There are many other factors besides balance that determine the outcome of a game. IdrA and Fruitdealer have just flat out played more SC2 than either Boxer or Nada. At this early stage, I expect them to beat those old SC1 pros. That being said, Boxer and Nada are clearly AMAZING at RTS. If in a few months (if they are training hard), they still cannot take games or win series against top zergs, then there is most likely a balance issue. As the guy who makes all the Zerg "comprehensive looks." I will tell you I am VERY BIASED in favor of zerg. But, I want the game to be balanced more than anything. If top Terrans start to complain and talk about their limited options like the top zergs were, then I think the match up needs tweeking. (BTW: I mean TOP terrans. Not some recognizable "names" who have a fan-base but would get annihilated at GSL.) If Boxer is complaining in a few more weeks, even as a biased zerg player, I would say the match up favors zerg and needs to be fixed. Terrans need to learn how to deny expansions from the Zerg and expand more. A Terran that's on even bases with a Zerg will crush the Zerg so hard it's not funny. You can't say the Terran is trying to play a macro game against the Zerg when he's staying on two bases all game long vs 4x gas and 3x mineral bases of the Zerg.
A great example of this is the oGsGon games. On Jungle Basin, IdrA DOUBLE expanded while harassing. When it's 2 base to 4, of course the Terran is going to be crushed. lol.
Sure, Gon managed to kill the 4th, but he lost his ENTIRE army doing it and couldn't make it back.
ZvT is balanced, learn to do something new.
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On October 25 2010 17:50 Hazu~ wrote:sanZenith (P) vs CheckPrime (Z)Leenock (Z) vs Suhoshin (Z) oGsNada (T) vs ParkJongHyuk (T) EGIdra (Z) vs oGsGon (T) Predictions.
Damn, you got it all wright.
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EPT
