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On October 02 2010 21:26 pretensile wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2010 20:46 On_Slaught wrote:
Looking at that series, even tho ITR won on DO and finally did a super-aggressive build on SS, his overall play still seemed too passive.
In these 5 games;
He built ZERO banshees.
He built ONE helion.
He built 3-5 reapers.
He built no more than 5 marauders.
There is a reason people think TvZ is adv T... b/c of these units, yet he didn't "abuse," let alone use in any real capacity, a single one.
Overall, his play was predictable, sloppy (or simply being out-microed), and failed to punish the super-greedy builds of cool at ALL. I don't understand this. And yet somehow we forget that in the semifinals, Liveforever threw reapers, hellions, cloaked banshees, AND medivac drops in order at fruitdealer in rapid succession-- all in game one alone! -- but to no avail. But of course Liveforever was a terrible Terran who fluked into the semifinals, amirite? Not to mention that Hopetorture's "predictable" play was exactly what allowed him to steamroll Ensnare in the semifinals as well.... yet I didn't see anyone complaining about it then! Funny how these things work. Let's just give credit where credit is due and leave it that, shall we? Instead of perpetually putting down those who simply come up short against a superior opponent.
Very well put. Thank you for posting this, I just keep creating similar replys like this and deleting them, because the discussion in this thread is so frustrating I'm having trouble keeping myself coherent.
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On October 02 2010 21:22 _vladimir_ wrote:
Yes yes, both Morrow and TLO would own Cool in finals and take it easy, same as TLO and Idra did in their rounds of 32, oh wait..
No disrespect to them, but i'm sick of people spaming with comments like "If that XY player was playing, he would do this and that"...yeah well why didn't he?
Stop overrating non Korean players, and underrating Korean players.I'm really curious to see when will non Korean manage to get in ro8/semis, considering how people talk about them, like they are Gods of Starcraft...
This is true. Of course you could be wondering how well some of the best foreigners would have done who were no there, but from what we have seen in this tournament there is no reason to believe they would have managed to beat the best Koreans.
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On October 02 2010 21:26 pretensile wrote:
I don't understand this. And yet somehow we forget that in the semifinals, Liveforever threw reapers, hellions, cloaked banshees, AND medivac drops in order at fruitdealer in rapid succession-- all in game one alone! -- but to no avail. But of course Liveforever was a terrible Terran who fluked into the semifinals, amirite?
Not to mention that Hopetorture's "predictable" play was exactly what allowed him to steamroll Ensnare in the semifinals as well.... yet I didn't see anyone complaining about it then! Funny how these things work.
Let's just give credit where credit is due and leave it that, shall we? Instead of perpetually putting down those who simply come up short against a superior opponent.
Word.
Funny how people in semies and finals of GSL are that bad...damn what are then people who lost in 16/32/64, or even those who lost at qualifiers...get the point?
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On October 02 2010 21:19 Sneddo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2010 21:15 DreXxiN wrote:On October 02 2010 21:14 Velr wrote:
My new counter to Proxyreapers is obviously 15 Hatch... Yeah no kidding what the hell man, that seemed like an auto loss then and there lol. I'm not trying to compare these two terrans at all... But if that was Morrow vs that build Cool did and the timing... Morrow would have made Cool pay for going that build.... ITR didn't seem to have practiced that build or his micro with reapers, the position was bad the whole time... I'm sorry but it wasn't an amazing play by Cool to go in the smoke and killing the reapers.. It was a bad play by ITR to follow.... Again i'm not comparing Morrow's skill to ITR's skill at all... I'm more comparing someone that has done that build over and over and has pretty much mastered that reaper build and I know it has changed after the patch, but you can still reaper harass/rush... That final game should have been ITRs, it was just bad execute of reaper build...
Yeah really, the smoke thing is actually so basic. Quite a few low diamond Zergs have done that to me when I was going Reapers, it's not amazing play and you really are supposed to watch out for that with them. They way overreacted to some things =P and Rainbow mostly just microed his Reapers really, really awfully.
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United States838 Posts
On October 02 2010 21:09 foxmeep wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2010 21:07 Spidinko wrote:On October 02 2010 21:03 foxmeep wrote:On October 02 2010 21:03 Bswhunter wrote:
One thing to note:
Did Cool even use hydras thoughout this series? If not, maybe thats where blizz needs to start balancing zerg Yes, he did. And in that game he got buttraped due to building them, lol. Did you actually see the game? I didn't see him got 'buttraped'. Care to elaborate on that, please? Specifically the push at his gold expansion, yes he got raped due to having way too many hydras. Or hydras at all for that matter.
I think he just droned too hard at that point. If he had more Lings he could have cleaned that up fine. Hydras are actually excellent as long as you have infestors and creep. Watch the ZvTs in Artosis replay pack.
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Didn't get to watch this. Woke up. Read the results.
NO WAY.
NO WAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
YEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS I LOVE YOU ITR BUT FOR THE SWARM XDDD!!!!
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On October 02 2010 21:22 _vladimir_ wrote:
Yes yes, both Morrow and TLO would own Cool in finals and take it easy, same as TLO and Idra did in their rounds of 32, oh wait..
No disrespect to them, but i'm sick of people spaming with comments like "If that XY player was playing, he would do this and that"...yeah well why didn't he?
Stop overrating non Korean players, and underrating Korean players.I'm really curious to see when will non Korean manage to get in ro8/semis, considering how people talk about them, like they are Gods of Starcraft...
Yes, if a foreigner thinks it's so easy, please step up and claim your $85k. Which I hope you do because it will mean more competition.
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it is funny how people ignoring that they were playing for 90k USD and thousands were watching them live, they might be old bw pros but a time passed since then... So before bashing those good players saying "that was basic, that was poor play, gold level players done that to me bla bla" consider yourself playing in that booth...
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On October 02 2010 21:22 _vladimir_ wrote:
Yes yes, both Morrow and TLO would own Cool in finals and take it easy, same as TLO and Idra did in their rounds of 32, oh wait..
No disrespect to them, but i'm sick of people spaming with comments like "If that XY player was playing, he would do this and that"...yeah well why didn't he?
Stop overrating non Korean players, and underrating Korean players.I'm really curious to see when will non Korean manage to get in ro8/semis, considering how people talk about them, like they are Gods of Starcraft...
Why do you put TLO in there with Morrow(I only saw people talk about Morrow, excuse me if there were people saying stuff about TLO too), Morrow is like 10 times better in my opinion.
He probably wouldn't have won vs Cool either though but at least he'd have gotten through the TvTs.
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Thanks to GOMtv for bringing us so much entertainment. There are some things to polish up as far as the broadcast goes (awkward transitions into games, server capacity, etc), but this was an absolute blast to keep up with. I can't wait for S2. Also grats to FruitDealer.. I sure as shit was not expecting that kind of an outcome.
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If you, as a Terran, lost against a Zerg in DQ and LT?
I would feel frustrated and enormous pressure especially there is so much money on the line.
Have you ever played against an opponent at a game you suppose to be good at? But for some reason, your opponent is just always 1 step ahead and make you look like a total newb? Yeah, you just played against Fruit Dealer.
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man. he just won my year's worth of wages =[ SHARE
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I like how tank dropping the high ground cliffs of expansions is like by far and away the most referenced aspect of gameplay, when talking about how Kulas Ravine and Lost Temple are Terran favored maps, and then when Hopetorture executes those tactics. Admittedly not as well as he perhaps could of but lets be fair that was some pretty impressive defense by Fruitdealer. Then in both case people suddenly exclaim. "Oh wow what are you doing ITR you should be pressuring with a Blue Hellion/Marauder timing push" or "Oh wow ITR you're failing pretty hard clearly 5 rax reaper is the build to be using in this situation."
I think it's fair to say that Fruitdealer simply seemed to be more than adequately prepared for everything and anything Hopetorture could throw at him, and it's probably fair to say that he would've had something oh hand for other fairly common builds and timings.
It's not hard to see how ITR would have become demoralized, when it seemed, like his opponent was constantly one step ahead, but it certainly is not fair to attribute Cool's win to Hopetorture's quality of play when his own was so clearly stellar.
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On October 02 2010 21:18 Somi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2010 21:16 Copenap wrote:On October 02 2010 21:12 Pudge_172 wrote:
Does EVERYONE have to qualify for Season 2 or do the top 4 or top 8 automatically get in? I think they all ave to qualify again for the first 3 seasons. Next year when the "real" GSL starts there will be seeting based on the result of the first 3 preseasons. And thats why its important for Blizzard to balance things out a more....I'd like to see near equal representation of races when the GSL season starts.
I think you have to go with a different aproach.
Id like to see a representation of the true distribution.
Since I suppose it's an uneven distribution with less Z than T and P top players, there should be less Z in the GSL.
Meaning that if there are only 20% top players playing Z (just made that figure up) there should only be 20% Z in the GSL.
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The prediction poll was just a teensy bit off...
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On October 02 2010 21:42 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2010 21:22 _vladimir_ wrote:
Yes yes, both Morrow and TLO would own Cool in finals and take it easy, same as TLO and Idra did in their rounds of 32, oh wait..
No disrespect to them, but i'm sick of people spaming with comments like "If that XY player was playing, he would do this and that"...yeah well why didn't he?
Stop overrating non Korean players, and underrating Korean players.I'm really curious to see when will non Korean manage to get in ro8/semis, considering how people talk about them, like they are Gods of Starcraft... Why do you put TLO in there with Morrow(I only saw people talk about Morrow, excuse me if there were people saying stuff about TLO too), Morrow is like 10 times better in my opinion. He probably wouldn't have won vs Cool either though but at least he'd have gotten through the TvTs.
I'm interested in how people make these comments about Morrow as a player, but if you went and watched the finals of IEM again. It's pretty clear that Idra fumbles quite a lot in his play. In my opinion significantly more than ITR did in these games and yet people seem to be so willing to attribute those wins to Morrow's level of play/gamesense. At the same time they are seemingly unable to show the same deference to Fruitdealer with these games here. Rampant hypocrisy is on the loose.
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On October 02 2010 21:50 DminusTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2010 21:42 Shikyo wrote:On October 02 2010 21:22 _vladimir_ wrote:
Yes yes, both Morrow and TLO would own Cool in finals and take it easy, same as TLO and Idra did in their rounds of 32, oh wait..
No disrespect to them, but i'm sick of people spaming with comments like "If that XY player was playing, he would do this and that"...yeah well why didn't he?
Stop overrating non Korean players, and underrating Korean players.I'm really curious to see when will non Korean manage to get in ro8/semis, considering how people talk about them, like they are Gods of Starcraft... Why do you put TLO in there with Morrow(I only saw people talk about Morrow, excuse me if there were people saying stuff about TLO too), Morrow is like 10 times better in my opinion. He probably wouldn't have won vs Cool either though but at least he'd have gotten through the TvTs. I'm interesting in how people make these comments about Morrow as a player, but if you went and watched the finals of IEM again it's pretty clear that Idra fumbles quite a lot in his play. In my opinion significantly more than ITR did in these games and yet people seem to be so willing to attribute those wins to Morrow's level of play/gamesense and not show the same deference to Fruitdealer with these games here. Rampant hypocrisy is on the loose.
I'm not even referring to that series although everyone seems to think so x_x He's just a lot more versatile and adaptable and has, to be honest, better micro with his harrassing units.
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ohhhhhh fcccccccccccccccccccccckk
I thought this will be tomorrow
fffffffuuu
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why are people talking about morrow? of course hes better than itr, but he wasnt there so that doesnt matter.
all that matters is cool played pretty well, and won the biggest sc2 tourny yet quite handily.
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On October 02 2010 21:53 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2010 21:50 DminusTerran wrote:On October 02 2010 21:42 Shikyo wrote:On October 02 2010 21:22 _vladimir_ wrote:
Yes yes, both Morrow and TLO would own Cool in finals and take it easy, same as TLO and Idra did in their rounds of 32, oh wait..
No disrespect to them, but i'm sick of people spaming with comments like "If that XY player was playing, he would do this and that"...yeah well why didn't he?
Stop overrating non Korean players, and underrating Korean players.I'm really curious to see when will non Korean manage to get in ro8/semis, considering how people talk about them, like they are Gods of Starcraft... Why do you put TLO in there with Morrow(I only saw people talk about Morrow, excuse me if there were people saying stuff about TLO too), Morrow is like 10 times better in my opinion. He probably wouldn't have won vs Cool either though but at least he'd have gotten through the TvTs. I'm interesting in how people make these comments about Morrow as a player, but if you went and watched the finals of IEM again it's pretty clear that Idra fumbles quite a lot in his play. In my opinion significantly more than ITR did in these games and yet people seem to be so willing to attribute those wins to Morrow's level of play/gamesense and not show the same deference to Fruitdealer with these games here. Rampant hypocrisy is on the loose. I'm not even referring to that series although everyone seems to think so x_x He's just a lot more versatile and adaptable and has, to be honest, better micro with his harrassing units.
Just to be clear. The comment you just made a comparison between Morrow and Hopetorture?
If so, because of a lack of direct evidence to the contrary I can't really refute your statement. Other than to say you have little proof to support your opinion either and it is my belief that time will prove me correct(In that Hopetorture is a significantly better player than Morrow, perhaps less flexible, but still better.). Though I suppose it could not.
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EPT
