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On September 27 2010 20:25 JinDesu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2010 20:23 Dommk wrote:On September 27 2010 20:21 JinDesu wrote:On September 27 2010 20:18 Dommk wrote:On September 27 2010 20:15 JinDesu wrote:On September 27 2010 20:10 Dommk wrote:On September 27 2010 20:09 JinDesu wrote:
It wasn't so much the mules - Anypro threw away 3 voidrays and his entire army in the wrong goddamn situations.
Stimmed marines take down a voidray in 3seconds, he has to take a risk when using them otherwise he can't use them at all. I'm not faulting his using them - he didn't use them at the key moments. He lost one in the wrong position (where Ensnare scanned ahead). His second one was used well to try to hit the mules, but he pulls back way too late (mules move faster than Voidrays, ouch). His third was used when pdd is put down to hold off the stalkers. But if he had 3 Voidrays right then, it'd have been so much more powerful. I understand that Ensnare was killing things left and right, but as with Colossi (look at that first game...), Voidrays are NOT supposed to be left to be picked off. You need them en masse. That is so ridiculous, they are _never_ used in mass, no one has done that in GSL, they are cost too much to even be able to do that. AnyPro isn't psychic, he has to take some risks, he can't see the entire map, and soon as the voidray is even a tiny bit off position and marines come it is gone, if you don't try use it as much as you can then you waste resources in which you could have used for other units. You HAVE to use them en masse if you are MAKING more of them. They don't work in singular when you are investing so much into them that your army is not buffed. I'm not saying "hold them back while the Terran is killing you". I'm saying, if you are going to lose them, the loss is so big that it's pretty much losing you the game. You need to maintain their numbers. No you don't, there have been games where people use Voidrays one,two or even three at a time, obviously the end goal is to keep them alive but the only way to do that is just keep them back the entire game, you can't just be afraid of facing marines at every turn, they are sometimes a gamble, if you don't play aggressively then you shouldn't have gone them at all. Yes, and those games would lose when your army gets hit by the mass marine and pdd clashes that we saw in the last game. Either hit and run to protect those voidrays, or stop building them and build up the ground army to defend against the marines and pdd. Like, how he pulled out that first voidray and saved it in the red. That's good! The other two? Not so much.
Please, if that Voidray was there for half a second longer it would have died. PDD clash is just another fight, it doesn't effect voidrays and you can't just run away from stimmed marauders, sure the voidray would have survied but half your ground army hits the dust. He only built three that game, that is quite reasonable, most people here at GSL went 4-5 Voidrays, with only 1/2-3 being at any given time (the PvP with Inca, 7(?) voidrays were made by the other protoss and only 2 were alive at any given time). Again, people aren't psychic, you have to try and make the most of them as much as you can, if you are too safe then you just wasted resources as well.
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51487 Posts
On September 27 2010 20:30 Elwar wrote:
I've said it for two weeks now, but I reallly don't get why colossus is so overwhelmingly favoured PvT by Koreans.
Apart from Tester it has a nearly 0% success rate. Its been failing left, right and centre.
'Foreign' protoss seem to overwhelmingly favour the HT.
agreed, zeal/sentry/ht is much, much more effective.
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"LET ME EXPLAIN THIS TO YOU GUYS!" xD
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On September 27 2010 20:30 Elwar wrote:
I've said it for two weeks now, but I reallly don't get why colossus is so overwhelmingly favoured PvT by Koreans.
Apart from Tester it has a nearly 0% success rate. Its been failing left, right and centre.
'Foreign' protoss seem to overwhelmingly favour the HT.
I think most of the korean pros prefer colossi's continuous attack over the high templar one time hit (which might not hit when terran gets ghosts). Short of good micro (i.e. Tester), mass colossi's weakness to vikings is pretty big in these matches.
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On September 27 2010 20:29 Lann555 wrote:
This 'Clide' nuthugging is getting so annoying. I gotte find a korean stream...
If a korean commentator was doing it to say TLO, you would say it's respect..
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I feel bad for Hongun lol ^^
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United Kingdom2950 Posts
Cliiiiiiiide, I think Tasteless reaaaaaaally likes someone...  And I'm copying "Clide build" from now on. SICK DROPS.
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On September 27 2010 20:30 Jyvblamo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2010 20:29 Lann555 wrote:
This 'Clide' nuthugging is getting so annoying. I gotte find a korean stream... I'm pretty sure half of it is tongue-in-cheek.
I realize that, but the commentary is like 90% random filler/hyping/running gags. Kind of gets on my nerves
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every match is so one sided today
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Yes! More "Cliiiiide!" from Tasteless XD.
Clide is such a beast  . I don't want to take anything away from him because he played frickin' well, but being on the receiving end of Terran dropship play is NOT fun, so I feel really bad for Hongun .
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Hongunprime looks like he definitely deserves to be here, but Clide is just on a completely different level.
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On September 27 2010 20:30 Elwar wrote:
I've said it for two weeks now, but I reallly don't get why colossus is so overwhelmingly favoured PvT by Koreans.
Apart from Tester it has a nearly 0% success rate. Its been failing left, right and centre.
.
Gotta agree on that one, seems to be completely hardcountered with vikings in all games.
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On September 27 2010 20:30 Maul wrote:
lol Artosis after clides drops "Let me explain this to you guys!"
giggled pretty hard when he shouted that :D
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TvP usually comes down to Colossus vs MM + viking or HT vs MM + ghost. it's tricky to deal with
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On September 27 2010 20:31 Dommk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2010 20:25 JinDesu wrote:On September 27 2010 20:23 Dommk wrote:On September 27 2010 20:21 JinDesu wrote:On September 27 2010 20:18 Dommk wrote:On September 27 2010 20:15 JinDesu wrote:On September 27 2010 20:10 Dommk wrote:On September 27 2010 20:09 JinDesu wrote:
It wasn't so much the mules - Anypro threw away 3 voidrays and his entire army in the wrong goddamn situations.
Stimmed marines take down a voidray in 3seconds, he has to take a risk when using them otherwise he can't use them at all. I'm not faulting his using them - he didn't use them at the key moments. He lost one in the wrong position (where Ensnare scanned ahead). His second one was used well to try to hit the mules, but he pulls back way too late (mules move faster than Voidrays, ouch). His third was used when pdd is put down to hold off the stalkers. But if he had 3 Voidrays right then, it'd have been so much more powerful. I understand that Ensnare was killing things left and right, but as with Colossi (look at that first game...), Voidrays are NOT supposed to be left to be picked off. You need them en masse. That is so ridiculous, they are _never_ used in mass, no one has done that in GSL, they are cost too much to even be able to do that. AnyPro isn't psychic, he has to take some risks, he can't see the entire map, and soon as the voidray is even a tiny bit off position and marines come it is gone, if you don't try use it as much as you can then you waste resources in which you could have used for other units. You HAVE to use them en masse if you are MAKING more of them. They don't work in singular when you are investing so much into them that your army is not buffed. I'm not saying "hold them back while the Terran is killing you". I'm saying, if you are going to lose them, the loss is so big that it's pretty much losing you the game. You need to maintain their numbers. No you don't, there have been games where people use Voidrays one,two or even three at a time, obviously the end goal is to keep them alive but the only way to do that is just keep them back the entire game, you can't just be afraid of facing marines at every turn, they are sometimes a gamble, if you don't play aggressively then you shouldn't have gone them at all. Yes, and those games would lose when your army gets hit by the mass marine and pdd clashes that we saw in the last game. Either hit and run to protect those voidrays, or stop building them and build up the ground army to defend against the marines and pdd. Like, how he pulled out that first voidray and saved it in the red. That's good! The other two? Not so much. Please, if that Voidray was there for half a second longer it would have died. PDD clash is just another fight, it doesn't effect voidrays and you can't just run away from stimmed marauders, sure the voidray would have survied but half your ground army hits the dust. He only built three that game, that is quite reasonable, most people here at GSL went 4-5 Voidrays, with only 1/2-3 being at any given time (the PvP with Inca, 7(?) voidrays were made by the other protoss and only 2 were alive at any given time). Again, people aren't psychic, you have to try and make the most of them as much as you can, if you are too safe then you just wasted resources as well.
This will be the last time either of you responds to the other in this topic. Take it up with PMs.
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On September 27 2010 20:31 GTR wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2010 20:30 Elwar wrote:
I've said it for two weeks now, but I reallly don't get why colossus is so overwhelmingly favoured PvT by Koreans.
Apart from Tester it has a nearly 0% success rate. Its been failing left, right and centre.
'Foreign' protoss seem to overwhelmingly favour the HT. agreed, zeal/sentry/ht is much, much more effective.
Colossi is a lot better to expand and much much less vulnerable on the early stages. Also if you have a good gateway army to defend your colossi you force Terran into making more vikings than he wants / needs and your colossi will deal damage nonetheless even when they die.
HT is strong if you are on 3 base.
Edit: Hi Nazgul^_^
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I just accidentally pressed x a few tmes in the gom player during the commentary and Tasteless and Artosis sound so ridiculously funny, recommend to try it at 0.7 speed, hehe
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On September 27 2010 20:30 Scottymc wrote:
Clide is raping. its a shame that protoss has to build tier 3 to counter tier 1 units.
Getting sick of seeing terran build 10 barracks and winning.
It's because the rest of the units besdies banshees are so useless against protoss.
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EPT
