Note: The TL tournament management is a beta system. If something isn't working, please report the bug by contacting an Admin immediately.
Altitude TL SC2 Open #1 FAQ
What is the prize pool? How is it distributed? The total prizes are $500: 1st - $300, 2nd - $100, 3rd/4th - $50.
Who is playing in the tournament? Where is the bracket? The current registered player list is located here. Please note this is not a final list, as check in is not completed yet. The bracket will be released when check in completed.
Will replays be released? Replay pack will be released after the tournament concludes. You are free to cast the replays afterward, but please credit the event and link to TL in the description.
Will there be a live stream? It will be part live and part replay. Pre-approved TL Streamers will have the option of streaming matches live before the Ro16 if both players agree. If either player refuses, there will be no live stream for that match. From the Ro16 on, all matches will be cast through replays (distributed to the pre-approved streamers). The Semifinals and Finals will be cast from replays by Chill and djWHEAT.
Ro512 to Ro32 = Live casts by pre-approved streamers IF both players agree. Ro16 & Ro8 = Replay casts by pre-approved streamers. Semis & Finals = Official TL cast by Chill and djWHEAT.
Can I stream the TL Open #1 Live? If you would like to apply to cast the TL Open #1, please PM Hot_Bid. Approved streamers must have an embedded stream on TL and should be ready with a replay bar blocker. Since these pre-approved streamers will cast the Ro16 and Ro8 from replays, you do not need a EU account to cast our tournament, any realm (US, EU, SEA, ASIA) is acceptable. We will give priority to streamers who have casted previous events and are active in the TL community.
Why cast Ro16 through replays? We chose to do it this way because there is no method to 100% ensure player integrity when there is a live stream. Currently we cannot effectively delay the stream, and we do not have a way of checking if a player has it open in the background or is receiving messages from a friend watching.
But other tournaments cast live, can't you just trust the players? We have always felt that competitive fairness is the most important thing in events with money prizes. All TL events follow these guidelines, and while we understand a live stream is preferable, we will not compromise our fairness standards for a marginal increase in viewer excitement. In the future, if there is a way to delay the stream or ensure nobody cheats off it, then we will cast live.
No observers? Players can say "No" to streamers? We feel that many tournaments are burdened with multiple observers in game. This leads to competitive fairness issues, lag, and other logistical problems. Our goal is to make the tournament experience as enjoyable and smooth as possible for the players, while simultaneously maximizing entertainment for our users. All fans can watch the casts during the tournament or watch VODs and replays afterward.
Who are the referees and approved streamers? The full referee and streamer list will be available to players after check in. When the tournament is running, the streams will be on the sidebar. Each will be streaming a different match. As stated earlier, semis and finals will be casted from replays only by the official TL channel.
What if things go terribly wrong? We hope the TL SC2 Open #1 is an enjoyable and entertaining experience for both players and fans. However, if things don't go according to plan, we hope you guys understand that this is our first large scale open SC2 event. It is a learning process for us, and we reserve the right to modify rules or procedures to fit the circumstances.
Tournament will be held on the Battle.net EU Server on Saturday, Sep 18 1:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00).
Bracket will be displayed on TeamLiquid. Participants must log in to view opponent EU IDs and Codes to contact their opponents for matches.
Players must contact each other through Bnet chat and arrange a host.
Players must report win and upload replay after each round.
Players may report loss. This is not required, but it will help the tournament run smoother.
If a game's results are disputed (both players report win), Tournament Referees will check replays and determine who advances.
Best-of-1 until Round of 16 (Round 1-5 is Bo1).
Best-of-3 Round of 16, Round of 8, and Round of 4 (Round 6-8 is Bo3).
Best-of-5 Finals (Round 9).
TL Open Rules
Any violation of TL Open Tournament Rules may result in game forfeit and future suspension from TL Opens and other TL events.
No cheating in any way. This includes any sort of hack or illegal program and receiving messages from friends watching the stream. This also includes account sharing or playing under an ID that you did not register under.
Players must set status to busy during tournament matches.
Players may not have stream open in the background when playing.
Players must arrive within 10 minutes of the scheduled Round start time. Every five minutes after that time results in a one game default win for the player who has arrived. Example: at 15 minutes after, 0-1, at 20 minutes after, 0-2.
Referees may warn and disqualify players for chat violations, including excessive or abusive insults toward players, observers, or referees.
Maps and Host Rules
Games will be hosted on one of the approved maps.
In a Bo1, host must create on designated map for that round.
In a Bo3, first game will be played on designated map, loser picks the next map from the pool.
Maps cannot be played twice in a series.
It is the player's responsibility to check the map pool. If a player protests an incorrect map after playing a game on it, the game will not be replayed.
Map Pool: Blistering Sands, Delta Quadrant, Lost Temple, Metalopolis, Scrap Station, Steppes of War, and Xel'Naga Caverns.
Note that Kulas Ravine and Desert Oasis are NOT approved maps.
Round 1 (512) Bo1 - Metalopolis
Round 2 (256) Bo1 - Lost Temple
Round 3 (128) Bo1 - Xel'Naga Caverns
Round 4 (64) Bo1- Scrap Station
Round 5 (32) Bo1 - Blistering Sands
Round 6 (16) Bo3 - Delta Quadrant, then loser picks
Round 7 (8) Bo3 - Steppes of War, then loser picks
Round 8 (4) Bo3 - Metalopolis, then loser picks
Round 9 (2) Bo5 - Lost Temple, then loser picks
Disconnects and Lag
If your opponent is disconnecting, players should take a screenshot of the lag screen and contact the tournament referee.
If a disconnect happens in the first five minutes and there has been no player-opponent contact, game will be replayed.
In a Bo1, if a disconnect happens after player-opponent contact, disconnecting player receives a loss. The Referee will make the final decision after reviewing the screenshot and replay.
In a Bo3, if a disconnect happens after player-contact, player must contact Referee immediately and Referee will decide how to proceed after reviewing the evidence.
Referees and Tournament Administrators reserve the right to overturn results or award wins based on evidence they see.
If there is persistent unplayable lag (lag screen comes up more than once in a short time), players must contact a Referee who will decide how to proceed.
Coverage and Observer Rules
TL will officially cast both semifinals and the finals.
No observers are allowed in games other than those designated by TL.
TL will designate "approved" observers who will be allowed to observe and broadcast games.
TL referees are also allowed to be in game.
There will only be a maximum of one observer in each match.
If the host invites a non-approved observer to the game and starts, game does not count.
If game lags with an approved observer in game, that observer must leave at the request of a player. If a TL referee is in game, he will make this decision.
Observers and broadcasters are subject to the same rules for cheating and abuse as players. TL may suspend observers from future TL events if violations occur.
If you would like to be an official observer / broadcaster for the Altitude TL Open, please apply by PMing Hot_Bid. The more information you can provide about your stream, average viewers, and casting experience, the better.
Feel free to use this thread to discuss the results, give feedback, and talk about the tournament. Thanks to R1CH for his hard work on the TL Tournament Management System, and to Altitude for sponsoring the event. If you haven't already, check out their game at altitudegame.com.
Is there a problem with wanting to see more of my favorite race? Every other tournament I have watched recently has had Zerg under represented and now TLAF Liquid has answered my prayers. So yes, I will be glad to watch ZvZ so long as its not another TvT or PvP ro16 and on like I'm unfortunately getting used to.
it all sounds very good, the only thing i personally dislike is this:
# Round 6 (16) Bo3 - Delta Quadrant, then loser picks # Round 7 (8) Bo3 - Steppes of War, then loser picks # Round 8 (4) Bo3 - Metalopolis, then loser picks # Round 9 (2) Bo5 - Lost Temple, then loser picks
DQ LT and Steppes are the worst Z maps in the mappool (in ZvT, ZvP on LT is ok), and all of them are played as designated maps in the last rounds. for the future it migth be better to choose maps that are a little more neutral (xel naga caverns, meta, blistering, delta quadrant for example). Another option would be to let players vote down until there is only one map left, and then this one is being played as first map (this can be done either for just the ro16 to finals or for the whole tourney)
On September 18 2010 18:11 DarKFoRcE wrote: DQ LT and Steppes are the worst Z maps in the mappool (in ZvT, ZvP on LT is ok)for the future it migth be better to choose maps that are a little more neutral (xel naga caverns, meta, blistering, delta quadrant for example).
On September 18 2010 18:11 DarKFoRcE wrote: DQ LT and Steppes are the worst Z maps in the mappool (in ZvT, ZvP on LT is ok)for the future it migth be better to choose maps that are a little more neutral (xel naga caverns, meta, blistering, delta quadrant for example).
Whaa?
Tourney looks awesome.
well i would personally prefer scrap station instead of DQ, but many people will not consider that a very neutral map, and of the maps that are bad for Z, i guess DQ is still the best.
is it possible to get a spot during the check-in phase, cause i tried to register but the page too ages to send my application and even though it said i was registered, im obviously not.
On September 18 2010 18:11 DarKFoRcE wrote: DQ LT and Steppes are the worst Z maps in the mappool (in ZvT, ZvP on LT is ok)for the future it migth be better to choose maps that are a little more neutral (xel naga caverns, meta, blistering, delta quadrant for example).
Whaa?
Tourney looks awesome.
well i would personally prefer scrap station instead of DQ, but many people will not consider that a very neutral map, and of the maps that are bad for Z, i guess DQ is still the best.
whats ur personal opinion on SS tho? I really dont feel like it is zerg favored at all, and a quality terran that is capable of abusing in multiple spots generally will at least negate any advantage u can possibly gain. And then theres the narrow pathing ofc.
On September 18 2010 20:00 TorNis wrote: Where and how to upload replays? And I believe there should be IRC here, no?
Instructions on where to send replays will be given to all players after check-in.
On September 18 2010 20:19 Alphonsse wrote: So are they just playing all the rounds in a row? I'm wondering approximately when to tune in for the semis and finals.
It is difficult to predict exactly, but I expect 2:30 to 3:00 EDT (0400 KST) as the start time for the semis.
On September 18 2010 18:11 DarKFoRcE wrote: DQ LT and Steppes are the worst Z maps in the mappool (in ZvT, ZvP on LT is ok)for the future it migth be better to choose maps that are a little more neutral (xel naga caverns, meta, blistering, delta quadrant for example).
Whaa?
Tourney looks awesome.
well i would personally prefer scrap station instead of DQ, but many people will not consider that a very neutral map, and of the maps that are bad for Z, i guess DQ is still the best.
I don't know if you realised but you contridicted yourself by saving delta quadrant was imba and then said that you would prefer balanced maps like delta quadrant.
It's nice to see the replays will be released, especially since I think I'm gonna take an early night.
I had asked this in the announcement thread, but had not seen any answer so I'm gonna throw it here aswell, will we who picked the wrong race when signing up be able to change our race before the check-in or how do we go about that?
Can't wait to see some stream pop up. Hopefully some entertaining casters signed on. It's been such a secret who's going to cast until now except wheat and chill.
On September 18 2010 22:14 Piski wrote: Isn't the main casters Chill & DjWHEAT? There is also some others but I dont remember
You are right sir,
From DJWheats twitter:
Got my #StarCraft2 Streaming Rig up and running thanks to @thegunrun! Ready for @TeamLiquidNet Altitude Tournament with Chill! about 8 hours ago via Twitter for iPhone
To those missing the check in, well your idiots, they even extended the deadline, and remember you not only denied yourself the chance by not checking in you took it away from someone on the waiting list :/ well done.
On September 18 2010 22:22 Ancient.eu wrote: Cast replays ? No live casting ?
On September 18 2010 22:23 Frack wrote: live casting up to the semis, then replay casting
Read the OP.
On September 18 2010 16:24 Hot_Bid wrote: Pre-approved TL Streamers will have the option of streaming matches live before the Ro16 if both players agree. From the Ro16 on, all matches will be cast through replays. The Semifinals and Finals will be cast from replays by Chill and djWHEAT.
On September 18 2010 22:27 Veyron wrote: So there'll be streams up to the semi's + finals? Anyone have a link to that page, please? The stream page, that is.
Nobody knows who is going to be streaming yet the earlier rounds yet.
On September 18 2010 22:25 Frack wrote: To those missing the check in, well your idiots, they even extended the deadline, and remember you not only denied yourself the chance by not checking in you took it away from someone on the waiting list :/ well done.
Well sorry, I figured the timer was for check-in and was waiting for it to go down. Should have double checked. Imo TL should have put the check-in timer on top of the page tbh.
LOLOLOL caster on millenium just queued chase music when probes were running around then started zooming in and out in time with the music. Best caster ever? I think so. <3
On September 18 2010 23:49 Liquid`Ret wrote: ye so dumb , shouldve just completly ignored this useless cannon that was placed even before there was a hatchery lol
It's okay ret, you'll get em next time! ret fighting!
wow that caster from millenium.tv is really good - I have a hard time understanding him because my french sucks but he its really entertaining nonetheless.
On September 18 2010 23:57 sixfour wrote: any notable upsets yet? would have thought in a tournament of this size that at least one big name would have been cheesed out by a random already
Not sure about upset, but stalife lost to Inf.Pr0 from Italy. And Lalush dropped on first round against Zerg~legend.
On September 18 2010 23:58 TBO wrote: wow that caster from millenium.tv is really good - I have a hard time understanding him because my french sucks but he its really entertaining nonetheless.
Haha yeah. Don't understand a lick but there's a lot of energy.
On September 18 2010 23:57 sixfour wrote: any notable upsets yet? would have thought in a tournament of this size that at least one big name would have been cheesed out by a random already
Not sure about upset, but stalife lost to Inf.Pr0 from Italy. And Lalush dropped on first round against Zerg~legend.
On September 18 2010 23:57 sixfour wrote: any notable upsets yet? would have thought in a tournament of this size that at least one big name would have been cheesed out by a random already
Not sure about upset, but stalife lost to Inf.Pr0 from Italy. And Lalush dropped on first round against Zerg~legend.
On September 18 2010 23:58 TBO wrote: wow that caster from millenium.tv is really good - I have a hard time understanding him because my french sucks but he its really entertaining nonetheless.
Haha yeah. Don't understand a lick but there's a lot of energy.
I wish you guys could understand him. He's actually really hilarious.
On September 19 2010 00:06 Grettin wrote: Sen has played Kiwikaki already. Open your eyes.
Alright then can you please tell me how the game went? edit: for those still wondering, in the bracket it does say sen 1-0 kial.kiwi and sen 1-0 kiwikaki. It appears he won.
On September 18 2010 23:57 sixfour wrote: any notable upsets yet? would have thought in a tournament of this size that at least one big name would have been cheesed out by a random already
Tyrokomos has taken out insolence and sjow - either he's got some sick cheeses or he's going to go really far o.o
On September 19 2010 00:10 Telcontar wrote: sen vs kiwikaki is starting now and is being casted by ipp. dont believe everything on the bracket guys, people make mistakes.
On September 19 2010 00:10 Telcontar wrote: sen vs kiwikaki is starting now and is being casted by ipp. dont believe everything on the bracket guys, people make mistakes.
On September 19 2010 00:10 Telcontar wrote: sen vs kiwikaki is starting now and is being casted by ipp. dont believe everything on the bracket guys, people make mistakes.
I just wanna say that the whole tourney is so slick, teamliquid showing once again why it's number one! The bracket system is awesome, being able to look at just certain rounds is so nice.
Can't wait of the djwheat/chill commentary, thanks to everyone who made this possible
On September 19 2010 00:30 gozima wrote: Zerg NEEDS to have a drone patrolling their lower ramp vs any toss. Sucks that sen lost, but whatcha gonna do?
I'm just wondering if he couldn't have expanded to the 12 oclock, started working on kiwi's rocks and been in decent shape for mid-game instead of going all in... I mean it did take forever for kiwi to get units...
On September 19 2010 00:36 Pandain wrote: Omg beast game. Morrow builds like a 6 bunker cheese, dimaga baneling busts the front two, runs by, and just counter attacks him.
Things to look for: Hatchery-cancel for creep to place baneling nest 6 bunkers, each with one marine. Bad gg timing
that was an awesome game although it was not part of this tourney.
On September 19 2010 00:36 Pandain wrote: Omg beast game. Morrow builds like a 6 bunker cheese, dimaga baneling busts the front two, runs by, and just counter attacks him.
Things to look for: Hatchery-cancel for creep to place baneling nest 6 bunkers, each with one marine. Bad gg timing
On September 19 2010 00:36 Pandain wrote: Omg beast game. Morrow builds like a 6 bunker cheese, dimaga baneling busts the front two, runs by, and just counter attacks him.
Things to look for: Hatchery-cancel for creep to place baneling nest 6 bunkers, each with one marine. Bad gg timing
umm there is no dimaga in this tournament and morrow hasn't even played a z yet O.o
On September 19 2010 00:36 Pandain wrote: Omg beast game. Morrow builds like a 6 bunker cheese, dimaga baneling busts the front two, runs by, and just counter attacks him.
Things to look for: Hatchery-cancel for creep to place baneling nest 6 bunkers, each with one marine. Bad gg timing
On September 19 2010 00:36 Pandain wrote: Omg beast game. Morrow builds like a 6 bunker cheese, dimaga baneling busts the front two, runs by, and just counter attacks him.
Things to look for: Hatchery-cancel for creep to place baneling nest 6 bunkers, each with one marine. Bad gg timing
just a random game he casted. not part of the tournament
I really can't get into replaycasting of a live-tournament. I really hope this doesn't become standard cuz in addition to the huge delay we are experiencing it takes away so much excitement. Guess I'm off playin myself now.
On September 19 2010 00:26 Psyclon wrote: They call him KiwiKaki - the Zerg Slayer
It seems all hope is left with Haypro. And DarkForce actually, if he beats Goody.
So from 144 zergs in the beginning there is now only 1 or 2
first round had like a gajillion ZvZs
Which means at least 1 zerg advanced out of 2. With the trend we see in the non-mirror zerg games we actually got more zergs through from the first rounds thanks to this.
On September 19 2010 00:41 AntiGrav1ty wrote: I really can't get into replaycasting of a live-tournament. I really hope this doesn't become standard cuz in addition to the huge delay we are experiencing it takes away so much excitement. Guess I'm off playin myself now.
On the contrary, I really hope this does become standard, not just to preclude any shenanigans, but to defuse some of the drama with a million obs trying to get into the games.
On September 19 2010 00:41 AntiGrav1ty wrote: in addition to the huge delay we are experiencing it takes away so much excitement.
I don't fully understand this. I'm not saying you're lying--I believe that you're not as excited if it's a replay cast. But I would love it if someone could explain what it is that takes away the excitement. I can see how the delay might sap your enthusiasm, but once the match is actually being cast, it always seems like it's just as exciting to me.
I mean, the TSLs were all replays, as far as I recall, and I never felt like I was being robbed. The finals were still super exciting.
For me it's actually the same, i can't really get over the fact that the game was already played and therefore i am not as excited as i would be in a live game. It might not make any sense, but it's the same in football or whatever sports. Got to see it live or i will lose interest. The delay is terrible btw, gonna play myself now as well.
On September 19 2010 00:41 AntiGrav1ty wrote: in addition to the huge delay we are experiencing it takes away so much excitement.
I don't fully understand this. I'm not saying you're lying--I believe that you're not as excited if it's a replay cast. But I would love it if someone could explain what it is that takes away the excitement. I can see how the delay might sap your enthusiasm, but once the match is actually being cast, it always seems like it's just as exciting to me.
I mean, the TSLs were all replays, as far as I recall, and I never felt like I was being robbed. The finals were still super exciting.
It's like watching a football game the day after it's been played. Its exciting but you know the result is already decided (you may even know the result). Watching it live, I feel at least, everything is so much more 'immediate' and tense.
On September 19 2010 00:26 Psyclon wrote: They call him KiwiKaki - the Zerg Slayer
It seems all hope is left with Haypro. And DarkForce actually, if he beats Goody.
So from 144 zergs in the beginning there is now only 1 or 2
Kiwikaki slays Zerg by cannon rush them.
And DarkForce lost to Goody, by imbalance. This game hurts while watching.
Don't start.
That cannon opening is basic against PvZ, especially in Korea. It's good and strong and it isn't cannon rushing. But it is pretty easy to break trough, Sen just chose all-in instead of expanding and making it a longer game.
And tbh, Kiwikaki played that game horribly, even tho he won.
On September 19 2010 00:41 AntiGrav1ty wrote: I really can't get into replaycasting of a live-tournament. I really hope this doesn't become standard cuz in addition to the huge delay we are experiencing it takes away so much excitement. Guess I'm off playin myself now.
How is it different from streaming live where you have to wait for players to finish games before you jump into the next set? What about the delays you have to wait (ie: IEM/ MLG) in live tournaments between rounds? How does it take away your excitement when the replay bar is covered up anyway =/
On September 19 2010 00:26 Psyclon wrote: They call him KiwiKaki - the Zerg Slayer
It seems all hope is left with Haypro. And DarkForce actually, if he beats Goody.
So from 144 zergs in the beginning there is now only 1 or 2
Kiwikaki slays Zerg by cannon rush them.
And DarkForce lost to Goody, by imbalance. This game hurts while watching.
Don't start.
That cannon opening is basic against PvZ, especially in Korea. It's good and strong and it isn't cannon rushing. But it is pretty easy to break trough, Sen just chose all-in instead of expanding and making it a longer game.
And tbh, Kiwikaki played that game horribly, even tho he won.
You didnt watch the game against Ret before, I guess?
On September 19 2010 00:41 AntiGrav1ty wrote: in addition to the huge delay we are experiencing it takes away so much excitement.
I don't fully understand this. I'm not saying you're lying--I believe that you're not as excited if it's a replay cast. But I would love it if someone could explain what it is that takes away the excitement. I can see how the delay might sap your enthusiasm, but once the match is actually being cast, it always seems like it's just as exciting to me.
I mean, the TSLs were all replays, as far as I recall, and I never felt like I was being robbed. The finals were still super exciting.
It's like watching a football game the day after it's been played. Its exciting but you know the result is already decided (you may even know the result). Watching it live, I feel at least, everything is so much more 'immediate' and tense.
You'll get it used to it quickly. I felt the same way during the first TSL, but it really isn't anything different. And it's not like watching the games a day later, nobody but the players know the results yet, you couldn't just look them up somewhere.
On September 19 2010 00:56 Liquid`Ret wrote: dont bring up my game like it means something in terms of balance, i just fucked myself by leaving the cannon with 1 hp ... twice :D
GogOgo Haypro & Tyler
It's not any specific game, it's just a systematic thing of noticing how few Zergs make it to the later rounds of every single tournament (the IEM LAN was the sole exception I've seen of any recent tournament).
On September 19 2010 00:51 Mithra wrote: It's like watching a football game the day after it's been played.
I don't actually think it's this, though. Suppose for some reason you had to watch a football game with a 15-minute delay. Or even a 30-minute delay. You're watching over some relay in the middle of nowhere or something, I don't know. Would you have the same reaction to that? (That's a serious question; I'm just curious.) Is there a point at which the delay would become too long?
And, again, I think most people thought the TSL/TSL2 finals were still really exciting.
Maybe it has to do with the presentation. Pauses in the action are fine if you know you're waiting for people to actually play. If you're casting replays, though, maybe pauses are less fine, because they remind you that you're not being kept perfectly up-to-date or something? Even though a straight 30-minute delay or something, with everything running smoothly and no pauses once it's started, would be less objectionable?
I dunno. Sorry for the derail. I'm just curious about the psychology here. I'll stop.
On September 19 2010 00:41 AntiGrav1ty wrote: in addition to the huge delay we are experiencing it takes away so much excitement.
I don't fully understand this. I'm not saying you're lying--I believe that you're not as excited if it's a replay cast. But I would love it if someone could explain what it is that takes away the excitement. I can see how the delay might sap your enthusiasm, but once the match is actually being cast, it always seems like it's just as exciting to me.
I mean, the TSLs were all replays, as far as I recall, and I never felt like I was being robbed. The finals were still super exciting.
It's like watching a football game the day after it's been played. Its exciting but you know the result is already decided (you may even know the result). Watching it live, I feel at least, everything is so much more 'immediate' and tense.
You'll get it used to it quickly. I felt the same way during the first TSL, but it really isn't anything different. And it's not like watching the games a day later, nobody but the players know the results yet, you couldn't just look them up somewhere.
Actually you can. In any of the two players match history...
On September 19 2010 00:41 AntiGrav1ty wrote: in addition to the huge delay we are experiencing it takes away so much excitement.
I don't fully understand this. I'm not saying you're lying--I believe that you're not as excited if it's a replay cast. But I would love it if someone could explain what it is that takes away the excitement. I can see how the delay might sap your enthusiasm, but once the match is actually being cast, it always seems like it's just as exciting to me.
I mean, the TSLs were all replays, as far as I recall, and I never felt like I was being robbed. The finals were still super exciting.
It's like watching a football game the day after it's been played. Its exciting but you know the result is already decided (you may even know the result). Watching it live, I feel at least, everything is so much more 'immediate' and tense.
You'll get it used to it quickly. I felt the same way during the first TSL, but it really isn't anything different. And it's not like watching the games a day later, nobody but the players know the results yet, you couldn't just look them up somewhere.
I agree with you, but I want to point out that it is actually possible to look up the results in the player's match-history.
On September 19 2010 00:41 AntiGrav1ty wrote: in addition to the huge delay we are experiencing it takes away so much excitement.
I don't fully understand this. I'm not saying you're lying--I believe that you're not as excited if it's a replay cast. But I would love it if someone could explain what it is that takes away the excitement. I can see how the delay might sap your enthusiasm, but once the match is actually being cast, it always seems like it's just as exciting to me.
I mean, the TSLs were all replays, as far as I recall, and I never felt like I was being robbed. The finals were still super exciting.
It's like watching a football game the day after it's been played. Its exciting but you know the result is already decided (you may even know the result). Watching it live, I feel at least, everything is so much more 'immediate' and tense.
You'll get it used to it quickly. I felt the same way during the first TSL, but it really isn't anything different. And it's not like watching the games a day later, nobody but the players know the results yet, you couldn't just look them up somewhere.
Actually you can. In any of the two players match history...
On September 19 2010 00:56 Liquid`Ret wrote: dont bring up my game like it means something in terms of balance, i just fucked myself by leaving the cannon with 1 hp ... twice :D
GogOgo Haypro & Tyler
It's not any specific game, it's just a systematic thing of noticing how few Zergs make it to the later rounds of every single tournament (the IEM LAN was the sole exception I've seen of any recent tournament).
But at the same time, I did know like twice as many terran from name than zergs(i knew 4 zergs) not to mention that the zergs in this tourney just got some really bad luck. Ret loosing to 1 cannon was devastating to watch, (esp. since on one side there were zlings not reaching the cannon and on the other the cannon had killed em all or something), sen going allin instead of just expanding and macroing up, lalush I have no idea what happend to... All the best terrans are still in there except for painuser.
Simple. Don't try to spoil yourself. People go look at the players history and then blame tournament organizers because of that. And TeamLiquid from now on (replay casting) should not update the brackets till all the results of a round comes in.
On September 19 2010 00:56 Liquid`Ret wrote: dont bring up my game like it means something in terms of balance, i just fucked myself by leaving the cannon with 1 hp ... twice :D
GogOgo Haypro & Tyler
It's not any specific game, it's just a systematic thing of noticing how few Zergs make it to the later rounds of every single tournament (the IEM LAN was the sole exception I've seen of any recent tournament).
But at the same time, I did know like twice as many terran from name than zergs(i knew 4 zergs) not to mention that the zergs in this tourney just got some really bad luck. Ret loosing to 1 cannon was devastating to watch, (esp. since on one side there were zlings not reaching the cannon and on the other the cannon had killed em all or something), sen going allin instead of just expanding and macroing up, lalush I have no idea what happend to... All the best terrans are still in there except for painuser.
well you know twice as many terrans because they won 20x more tourneys
On September 19 2010 00:56 Liquid`Ret wrote: dont bring up my game like it means something in terms of balance, i just fucked myself by leaving the cannon with 1 hp ... twice :D
GogOgo Haypro & Tyler
It's not any specific game, it's just a systematic thing of noticing how few Zergs make it to the later rounds of every single tournament (the IEM LAN was the sole exception I've seen of any recent tournament).
But at the same time, I did know like twice as many terran from name than zergs(i knew 4 zergs) not to mention that the zergs in this tourney just got some really bad luck. Ret loosing to 1 cannon was devastating to watch, (esp. since on one side there were zlings not reaching the cannon and on the other the cannon had killed em all or something), sen going allin instead of just expanding and macroing up, lalush I have no idea what happend to... All the best terrans are still in there except for painuser.
Yes, clearly there are no imbalances. Zerg players are just UNLUCKY.
I hope we can get some 5min delay technology for streams or something. 'Cause as soon as the Ro16 came up, there was this massive dead space, delays, confusions. As a spectator I basically lost interest and tuned out. Plus you've been updating the brackets before the casters get a chance to show the replays, which is massive fail.
On September 19 2010 01:18 AmiPolizeiFunk wrote: I hope we can get some 5min delay technology for streams or something. 'Cause as soon as the Ro16 came up, there was this massive dead space, delays, confusions. As a spectator I basically lost interest and tuned out. Plus you've been updating the brackets before the casters get a chance to show the replays, which is massive fail.
5 minute delay isn't enough, and to me that small sacrifice is nothing compared to guaranteed no cheating via livestream
I'm kinda confused. Hard to tell who is casting what. I have to tune into every stream and tab back and forth muting and stuff so that I don't miss anything lol.
Orb is plowing trough replays, very nice work coming from orb
I tried to watch the other streams but they seemed to be poor quality commentating with huge huge amount of downtime with confusion of what was happening.
On September 19 2010 01:18 AmiPolizeiFunk wrote: I hope we can get some 5min delay technology for streams or something. 'Cause as soon as the Ro16 came up, there was this massive dead space, delays, confusions. As a spectator I basically lost interest and tuned out. Plus you've been updating the brackets before the casters get a chance to show the replays, which is massive fail.
I stopped watching for the same reason. Not hyped for some replays that I can watch later anyway.
On September 19 2010 01:18 AmiPolizeiFunk wrote: I hope we can get some 5min delay technology for streams or something. 'Cause as soon as the Ro16 came up, there was this massive dead space, delays, confusions. As a spectator I basically lost interest and tuned out. Plus you've been updating the brackets before the casters get a chance to show the replays, which is massive fail.
5 minute delay isn't enough, and to me that small sacrifice is nothing compared to guaranteed no cheating via livestream
I liked in HDH when they recorded a live casting (to no audience) and then broadcast the recording. That made it feel more exciting.
On September 19 2010 01:18 AmiPolizeiFunk wrote: I hope we can get some 5min delay technology for streams or something. 'Cause as soon as the Ro16 came up, there was this massive dead space, delays, confusions. As a spectator I basically lost interest and tuned out. Plus you've been updating the brackets before the casters get a chance to show the replays, which is massive fail.
5 minute delay isn't enough, and to me that small sacrifice is nothing compared to guaranteed no cheating via livestream
I liked in HDH when they recorded a live casting (to no audience) and then broadcast the recording. That made it feel more exciting.
alright, now this I don't understand at all. why is this in any way better than casting from a replay? because it was live for the commentators? the TL commentators don't know the results you know.
On September 19 2010 01:18 AmiPolizeiFunk wrote: I hope we can get some 5min delay technology for streams or something. 'Cause as soon as the Ro16 came up, there was this massive dead space, delays, confusions. As a spectator I basically lost interest and tuned out. Plus you've been updating the brackets before the casters get a chance to show the replays, which is massive fail.
5 minute delay isn't enough, and to me that small sacrifice is nothing compared to guaranteed no cheating via livestream
I am pretty sure 5 minutes is enough in 99,9% of the cases and I honestly don't expect anyone to have a cheat setup ready for this totally rare situations. And If 5 minutes is not enough, just have it 8.
On September 19 2010 01:18 AmiPolizeiFunk wrote: I hope we can get some 5min delay technology for streams or something. 'Cause as soon as the Ro16 came up, there was this massive dead space, delays, confusions. As a spectator I basically lost interest and tuned out. Plus you've been updating the brackets before the casters get a chance to show the replays, which is massive fail.
5 minute delay isn't enough, and to me that small sacrifice is nothing compared to guaranteed no cheating via livestream
I am pretty sure 5 minutes is enough in 99,9% of the cases and I honestly don't expect anyone to have a cheat setup ready for this totally rare situations. And If 5 minutes is not enough, just have it 8.
On September 19 2010 01:18 AmiPolizeiFunk wrote: I hope we can get some 5min delay technology for streams or something. 'Cause as soon as the Ro16 came up, there was this massive dead space, delays, confusions. As a spectator I basically lost interest and tuned out. Plus you've been updating the brackets before the casters get a chance to show the replays, which is massive fail.
5 minute delay isn't enough, and to me that small sacrifice is nothing compared to guaranteed no cheating via livestream
I am pretty sure 5 minutes is enough in 99,9% of the cases and I honestly don't expect anyone to have a cheat setup ready for this totally rare situations. And If 5 minutes is not enough, just have it 8.
i am pretty sure ur wrong and many other top players have agreed with me 5 minutes is not enough, 15 minutes is probably enough 99% of the tiem
On September 19 2010 01:18 AmiPolizeiFunk wrote: I hope we can get some 5min delay technology for streams or something. 'Cause as soon as the Ro16 came up, there was this massive dead space, delays, confusions. As a spectator I basically lost interest and tuned out. Plus you've been updating the brackets before the casters get a chance to show the replays, which is massive fail.
5 minute delay isn't enough, and to me that small sacrifice is nothing compared to guaranteed no cheating via livestream
I am pretty sure 5 minutes is enough in 99,9% of the cases and I honestly don't expect anyone to have a cheat setup ready for this totally rare situations. And If 5 minutes is not enough, just have it 8.
i am pretty sure ur wrong and many other top players have agreed with me 5 minutes is not enough, 15 minutes is probably enough 99% of the tiem
Actually by many you mean IdrA.
Edit: On second thought I'm not debating this shit anymore.
The problem is that the casters often interact with the viewers. So really the technology would send the game from the players to the casters after a delay (5min, 8min, 15min, whatever is necessary). This would solve all problems, and the experience would be exactly like live for both casters and viewers. I know it's starting to sound like watching replays, but the difference is that nobody has to do any labor. Sending replays between games must be a huge pain in the ass for players, who naturally would rather concentrate on the task at hand.
Not saying its not important to keep games cheat free. But the reason people are playing in this tournament is the prize pool, The reason there is a prize pool is because of sponsors, and the reason there is sponsors is because of the viewers. So having as many viewers as possible is pretty important for everyone, including the players. Depending on the loss of viewers streaming replays compared too not streaming one could definatly make a case for it being beneficial for the players themselves to have games streamed and risk a 2-3% chance of being cheated or whatever the percentage is. I think of the high level who have a chance of winning this there arent many cheaters. (Obv this might change for some though when there are money on the line. Idk. ANyone who is actually good though its not worth risking reputation/being banned from all future tourneys)
With the zerg thing, if it's one tournament it's luck, but few zergs left in GSL, 1 zerg left here, no zergs made it far in MLG, hardly any zergs make it far in any of the weekly online tournaments, the top of the ladders all are thin on zerg: it shows it's a systematic thing and nothing really to do with luck.
People want to assign any given tournament to luck, but looking at the whole picture there is something seriously off.
On September 19 2010 01:08 GenoZStriker wrote: Simple. Don't try to spoil yourself. People go look at the players history and then blame tournament organizers because of that. And TeamLiquid from now on (replay casting) should not update the brackets till all the results of a round comes in.
Brackets are frozen to the public starting with Ro16, once the replays of Ro16 have been streamed the next part of the bracket will be shown.
On September 19 2010 01:53 Earll wrote: Not saying its not important to keep games cheat free. But the reason people are playing in this tournament is the prize pool, The reason there is a prize pool is because of sponsors, and the reason there is sponsors is because of the viewers. So having as many viewers as possible is pretty important for everyone, including the players. Depending on the loss of viewers streaming replays compared too not streaming one could definatly make a case for it being beneficial for the players themselves to have games streamed and risk a 2-3% chance of being cheated or whatever the percentage is. I think of the high level who have a chance of winning this there arent many cheaters. (Obv this might change for some though when there are money on the line. Idk. ANyone who is actually good though its not worth risking reputation/being banned from all future tourneys)
Speaking of which, someone spoiled the result of Haypro qxc in the stream chat by looking at match history near the beginning of the stream of the game.
On September 19 2010 01:53 Earll wrote: Not saying its not important to keep games cheat free. But the reason people are playing in this tournament is the prize pool, The reason there is a prize pool is because of sponsors, and the reason there is sponsors is because of the viewers. So having as many viewers as possible is pretty important for everyone, including the players. Depending on the loss of viewers streaming replays compared too not streaming one could definatly make a case for it being beneficial for the players themselves to have games streamed and risk a 2-3% chance of being cheated or whatever the percentage is. I think of the high level who have a chance of winning this there arent many cheaters. (Obv this might change for some though when there are money on the line. Idk. ANyone who is actually good though its not worth risking reputation/being banned from all future tourneys)
That's what we thought before TSL2. There's money involved, people will cheat if you let them.
Bad GG timing from qxc =/ Haypro being a little silly towards at the end throwing some units away but with several thousand minerals he can just throw stuff away.
On September 19 2010 01:53 Earll wrote: Not saying its not important to keep games cheat free. But the reason people are playing in this tournament is the prize pool, The reason there is a prize pool is because of sponsors, and the reason there is sponsors is because of the viewers. So having as many viewers as possible is pretty important for everyone, including the players. Depending on the loss of viewers streaming replays compared too not streaming one could definatly make a case for it being beneficial for the players themselves to have games streamed and risk a 2-3% chance of being cheated or whatever the percentage is. I think of the high level who have a chance of winning this there arent many cheaters. (Obv this might change for some though when there are money on the line. Idk. ANyone who is actually good though its not worth risking reputation/being banned from all future tourneys)
That's what we thought before TSL2. There's money involved, people will cheat if you let them.
Yeah I used to think that the "higher level" players wouldn't cheat, but then TSL2 happened and we saw what's what. Go check out the old threads if you want to be shocked at who cheated.
On September 19 2010 01:59 Lylat wrote: Man Haypro is a beast, ZvT is imba ? Really ?
gotta LOVE these people. uh.. never mind, i'm not even going to try, so many terans blaming it on bad luck or just denying the fact that zvt/p is imbalanced. Haypro FIGHTING:D
On September 19 2010 01:59 Lylat wrote: Man Haypro is a beast, ZvT is imba ? Really ?
Qxc moves out with his army without really scouting Haypro's army. Gets flanked by lings and blings out in the open. It still takes 15 mins for Haypro to win the game, and qxc almost even makes a comeback. If the positions had been changed, and the Z player had lost his army like that so early in the game, Z would have been forced to gg way earlier.
On September 19 2010 02:05 Fate77 wrote: Select vs Nony game 1 was incredibel. No wonder Select is one of the highest ranked terran player according to Sc2rankings.
On September 19 2010 02:05 Fate77 wrote: Select vs Nony game 1 was incredibel. No wonder Select is one of the highest ranked terran player according to Sc2rankings.
On September 19 2010 02:05 Fate77 wrote: Select vs Nony game 1 was incredibel. No wonder Select is one of the highest ranked terran player according to Sc2rankings.
That was pretty ridiculous, Nony demolishes first push and then it looked like he sac'd his army to Select's army without Colo support.. sigh. Maybe he misclicked at the front.
2 cannon containers in a row. Not saying is not legit tactic, just curious if Kiwi can win a strait game against Sen or Ret.
Yeah I definitely think he could, Kiwi might have the best pvz in the world atm (not to sure about korea). He beat Dimaga straight up in a bo5 not long ago.
2 cannon containers in a row. Not saying is not legit tactic, just curious if Kiwi can win a strait game against Sen or Ret.
Yeah I definitely think he could, Kiwi might have the best pvz in the world atm (not to sure about korea). He beat Dimaga straight up in a bo5 not long ago.
it was BO7 and not that good of a play from either sides as expected
2 cannon containers in a row. Not saying is not legit tactic, just curious if Kiwi can win a strait game against Sen or Ret.
Yeah I definitely think he could, Kiwi might have the best pvz in the world atm (not to sure about korea). He beat Dimaga straight up in a bo5 not long ago.
it was BO7 and not that good of a play from either sides as expected
2 cannon containers in a row. Not saying is not legit tactic, just curious if Kiwi can win a strait game against Sen or Ret.
Yeah I definitely think he could, Kiwi might have the best pvz in the world atm (not to sure about korea). He beat Dimaga straight up in a bo5 not long ago.
as naniwa,hasu and socke.its not kiwi is imba its more that dimaga has some problems with the pvz-matchup what he has already mentioned in an interview
No he didn't ! He lost because of bad decisions, I mean he killed the 8 marauders with his colosus, okay but why did he engage Select's army without colossus ? And even before that, after the failure of Select's first attack he should have countered he would have won imo, but I may be wrong here
Drafter did the same build vs me too, i should have messeded Haypro ^^ Unfortunately i paniced a bit and couldnt deffend very well, so i lost the macro game after that
On September 19 2010 02:50 CuttyFlam wrote: Naah its because of a whole lot of other things, but no worries, one gets used to everything with enough time.
Back on topic , anyone knows how Tastefull88 did vs Select? Or hasnt their match started yet?
Thx
like we win to much so we lose every once in awhile just because we pitty other nations?
On September 19 2010 02:50 CuttyFlam wrote: Naah its because of a whole lot of other things, but no worries, one gets used to everything with enough time.
Back on topic , anyone knows how Tastefull88 did vs Select? Or hasnt their match started yet?
On September 19 2010 02:50 CuttyFlam wrote: Naah its because of a whole lot of other things, but no worries, one gets used to everything with enough time.
Back on topic , anyone knows how Tastefull88 did vs Select? Or hasnt their match started yet?
Thx
like we win to much so we lose every once in awhile just because we pitty other nations?
First of all aren't you canadian, like jim carrey? ^^
And no, not really, but just let it go, dont want to start something for a ridiculous comment that i quoted in the first place.
wow thats so sad... I didnt see the first game but drafter played really bad the first 8 mins, unknown terran going 2-0 to haypro, makes me feel sick lol
Yeah he's pretty retarded. As much as you would want Zerg to win, talking down a player calling him random and start pointing the fact that he is terran for Haypro's mistake is pretty bias and you don't do that.
2 cannon containers in a row. Not saying is not legit tactic, just curious if Kiwi can win a strait game against Sen or Ret.
Yeah I definitely think he could, Kiwi might have the best pvz in the world atm (not to sure about korea). He beat Dimaga straight up in a bo5 not long ago.
Sen beat Inka, tester and lots of ogs members in training matchies and on ladder. Not saying he is better then the top koreans but he is the same level. And no offense to Kiwi, but those guys are far better players.
Kiwi vs Sen game i think Sen underestimated Kiwi, by going all-in counterattack. On the korean server lots of Toss doing this and Sen handled it easy. So it was Sen mistake.
And yeah im a huge Sen fan, i was a sad sad platinum Zerg, and watching his stream helped me to improve much, and going to diamond, so im biased. And a i really really want to see Zerg in the Finals, or atleast in the Semi.
On September 19 2010 02:59 Weavel wrote: Decembertv caster is so bias that it's not even funny. I mean I hoped that zerg would win too, but still...
so what
Casters should be impartial as much as possible.
he's not really a caster tho, but a decent zerg. I think people should appreciate a caster that more or less knows what he's talking about that kind is rare
On September 19 2010 02:59 ZapRoffo wrote: he had so many minerals cause he didn't have the hatches or the tech to build units, but was still mining.
In all fairness, he had 4-digit minerals way before that, while the game was under good handle. I don't know what happened with both of them, but the games weren't particularly good. Awkward T decisions.
On September 19 2010 02:59 Weavel wrote: Decembertv caster is so bias that it's not even funny. I mean I hoped that zerg would win too, but still...
keep in mind he's not really a caster, he's just a Zerg player who streams, and picked up some reps and streams it, and casts them too, why not actually. he's not a terrible player, and plays a tone so he can say something worth listening too. His english is not perfect, and i dislike his playstyle and mentality which he shown during our games, but i'm glad for what he's doing now
i gotta say, the replay casting is very confusing and unorganized. There should be a schedule for the streamers. How it is done now, it kills a lot of the excitement for me.
This is too annoying to watch atm and nowhere near exciting somehow (to me at least). I was so looking forward to this tournament, but since all this confusing, chaotic and random replay casting of ro16/8 I have lost all interest in watching. I hope next ATL Open will have learned from today.
looks like Strelok will take this from here, only a tip though
btw why all the spoiler tags? This is a Live thread
Because some of the matches were still being casted (or rather the replays of these matches) while the final score was already available on some sites and people come looking for which stream shows what match in here, I guess.
On September 19 2010 03:22 Leviance wrote: This is too annoying to watch atm and nowhere near exciting somehow (to me at least). I was so looking forward to this tournament, but since all this confusing, chaotic and random replay casting of ro16/8 I have lost all interest in watching. I hope next ATL Open will have learned from today.
It's been really hard to follow, but I think they had to use this format to finish it in reasonable time given how many players were in this.
On September 19 2010 03:23 Psyclon wrote: As it stands now, i think SelecT will take it. Strelock isn't playing that well. But who knows, maybe his TvT is his best.
im 95% certain SeleCT will rape Strelok like he did last time
On September 19 2010 03:24 {88}iNcontroL wrote: who is drafter?
He's a Danish Terran player who participates in ZOTAC and Viking cups from time to time, don't think I've seen him win anything big yet, but apparently he's pretty good.
On September 19 2010 03:22 Leviance wrote: This is too annoying to watch atm and nowhere near exciting somehow (to me at least). I was so looking forward to this tournament, but since all this confusing, chaotic and random replay casting of ro16/8 I have lost all interest in watching. I hope next ATL Open will have learned from today.
100% agree no tournement or livefeeling... its like watching some random cast on youtube... replaycasting is like watching the super bowl the day after on VHS.
On September 19 2010 03:22 Leviance wrote: This is too annoying to watch atm and nowhere near exciting somehow (to me at least). I was so looking forward to this tournament, but since all this confusing, chaotic and random replay casting of ro16/8 I have lost all interest in watching. I hope next ATL Open will have learned from today.
Feel same way.
It was really easy and nice to follow up until the replay casting started. Now I dont know what the hell im watching, just confusing and really stupid.
Completely lost interest after semi+ is all terran aswell lol
On September 19 2010 03:24 {88}iNcontroL wrote: who is drafter?
He's a pretty strong 1500 rated terran in my division who has finished i think second in some zotac, but never winning anything notable. I actually played him twice on ladder a couple days ago (i won zomgz BRAG) but I noticed he goes a lot of thors into his bio/tank which is probably very effective against haypro's muta ling baneling play. (I didn't see the drafter/haypro game this is just from playing him)
On September 19 2010 03:28 alkampfer wrote: lol toss and zerg cannot live to terrans...
BratOK and Demuslim didn't even participate... and MorroW didn't drop out due to losing. Correct me if i am wrong. Those are the top3 terrans in europe...
On September 19 2010 03:22 Leviance wrote: This is too annoying to watch atm and nowhere near exciting somehow (to me at least). I was so looking forward to this tournament, but since all this confusing, chaotic and random replay casting of ro16/8 I have lost all interest in watching. I hope next ATL Open will have learned from today.
100% agree no tournement or livefeeling... its like watching some random cast on youtube... replaycasting is like watching the super bowl the day after on VHS.
...with the recording split into several videos arriving in disjointed fashion over half the day.
the problem with casting off replays is that the momentum of the whole event is lost for the viewers. its really important for a tournament to build up steam and climax with the semis/finals. with the waiting and not knowing who's streaming what and when, its really hard to stay with it. i get that you guys want to minimise lag in important games but having 1 referee and 1 or 2 casters will not be that bad. anyway it looks like i'll have to skip the semis and final. good job guys.
On September 19 2010 03:22 Leviance wrote: This is too annoying to watch atm and nowhere near exciting somehow (to me at least). I was so looking forward to this tournament, but since all this confusing, chaotic and random replay casting of ro16/8 I have lost all interest in watching. I hope next ATL Open will have learned from today.
Agreed, but it should get better when semis start. Too bad only terran player left...
On September 19 2010 03:24 {88}iNcontroL wrote: who is drafter?
He's a pretty strong 1500 rated terran who has finished i think second in some zotac, but never winning anything notable. I actually played him twice on ladder a couple days ago (i won zomgz BRAG) but I noticed he goes a lot of thors into his bio/tank which is probably very effective against haypro's muta ling baneling play. (I didn't see the drafter/haypro game this is just from playing him)
On September 19 2010 03:28 alkampfer wrote: lol toss and zerg cannot live to terrans...
BratOK and Demuslim didn't even participate... and MorroW didn't drop out due to losing. Correct me if i am wrong. Those are the top3 terrans in europe...
Aren't BratOK and MorroW terran anyways? Why did MorroW not finish?
The problem isn't that they aren't casting live, but because they aren't scheduling the release of replays well. In TSL when there was a single official cast of replays, it worked out very well and had tons of viewers. I guess it's harder to do here cause they want to get all the games out there in a day this time. I think there will be an official cast of the Ro8 soon though.
On September 19 2010 03:34 Slow Motion wrote: The problem isn't that they aren't casting live, but because they aren't scheduling the release of replays well. In TSL when there was a single official cast of replays, it worked out very well and had tons of viewers. I guess it's harder to do here cause they want to get all the games out there in a day this time. I think there will be an official cast of the Ro8 soon though.
Perhaps next time TL should publish half of the bracket 1h-1,5h before other side of bracket so that there isn't that much of waiting for replay broadcasts.
On September 19 2010 03:28 alkampfer wrote: lol toss and zerg cannot live to terrans...
BratOK and Demuslim didn't even participate... and MorroW didn't drop out due to losing. Correct me if i am wrong. Those are the top3 terrans in europe...
Aren't BratOK and MorroW terran anyways? Why did MorroW not finish?
That was my point! I heard MorroW played at another tour or something and it took him too long so he received a loss, but i don't REALLY know! =)
mmm, you dudes understand that if they livecast the games with many people watching it some observer may tell to other player everything what another dude is making (with cell phone or live). No one wouldn't get caught about it and it is impossible to spot "cheating".
People bitching and moaning... it's a gigantic open tournament being ran in 1 day (really, really fucking well, I add). You can't expect seamless transitions with this many games going on to coordinate and replays to send out. The expectations you guys have are fucking unreal.
On September 19 2010 03:37 Welmu wrote: mmm, you dudes understand that if they livecast the games with many people watching it some observer may tell to other player everything what another dude is making (with cell phone or live). No one wouldn't get caught about it and it is impossible to spot "cheating".
Well livestreams don't have to be live, they can be delayed so that you can't cheat, can't they? That would fix almost everything.
^^ I agree. The tournament is good for first run but it's little bit confusing to follow as there were like 3-4 streams all casting different replays and I had no idea of the whole big picture. They felt little like random games and you had to choose what to watch. Still enjoying the tournament but it has some room for improvement!
On September 19 2010 03:22 Leviance wrote: This is too annoying to watch atm and nowhere near exciting somehow (to me at least). I was so looking forward to this tournament, but since all this confusing, chaotic and random replay casting of ro16/8 I have lost all interest in watching. I hope next ATL Open will have learned from today.
100% agree no tournement or livefeeling... its like watching some random cast on youtube... replaycasting is like watching the super bowl the day after on VHS.
...with the recording split into several videos arriving in disjointed fashion over half the day.
hehe ye true + due to the count of cups its like every day is super bowl :/
On September 19 2010 03:37 Welmu wrote: mmm, you dudes understand that if they livecast the games with many people watching it some observer may tell to other player everything what another dude is making (with cell phone or live). No one wouldn't get caught about it and it is impossible to spot "cheating".
Well livestreams don't have to be live, they can be delayed so that you can't cheat, can't they? That would fix almost everything.
Delaying streams can cost A LOT of money. They can't just be "delayed" so easily like you make it to be.
On September 19 2010 03:39 Piski wrote: ^^ I agree. The tournament is good for first run but it's little bit confusing to follow as there were like 3-4 streams all casting different replays and I had no idea of the whole big picture. They felt little like random games and you had to choose what to watch. Still enjoying the tournament but it has some room for improvement!
That's kinda' the point? With multiple streams you can choose what you want to watch of the games in progress. If you expected only 1 cast the entire time, then the volume of games to go through would either have to be cut down to the bare minimum or it would take days upon days to stream them all. I love this format.
I think in order to facilitate a little more coordination you could designate the brackets to specific casters (assuming an appropriate ratio of casters 4/8 etc), so people kind of have a schedule (so to speak) of who to expect on the streams. Just a thought. Understandably difficult and like to be able to improvise, but I think that would be a rather simple way to clarify what might be on what streams.
I was fine with following the tournament. Disappointed at terran domination of late rounds as usual.
orb casted excellently, was my favorite caster to follow. Professional and informative. ragequit.tv did a very good job as well. DecemberTV was slightly unprofessional, sometimes didn't cover replay bar/talked about time left in game.
On September 19 2010 03:43 GenoZStriker wrote: This can all be fixed with better organization for next time.But for the first time, it was not bad.
Agreed. I also feel (although you guys might not agree here), that I'd rather have them stop releasing replays to random casters when it gets into series play and cast from a single official cast, maybe even over a couple of days.
Basically I love the thought behind what they are doing now with the official djwheat and chill cast, but I think the cutoff should have been sooner. But maybe I feel this way only because my favorite players already got knocked out .
On September 19 2010 03:34 Slow Motion wrote: The problem isn't that they aren't casting live, but because they aren't scheduling the release of replays well. In TSL when there was a single official cast of replays, it worked out very well and had tons of viewers. I guess it's harder to do here cause they want to get all the games out there in a day this time. I think there will be an official cast of the Ro8 soon though.
Yes this is one of the main issues, besides the lack of live momentum. Preferred improvements would be:
One Possibility:
1. One Official ATL Open Stream
2. Thought out order of matches being casted
3. Little things that improve momentum feeling (better: don't fuck it up) like not showing the streamer searching replay files on his Computer to not see how many there are per match and of what size they are, have an overlay seen instead, actually have an overlay badass ATL Open Banner/Picture shown the WHOLE time the stream is not showing ingame footage.
Another:
Do it like HDH. Cast games live. Show the Cast after the games. It really delivers more excitement and feels live (cause it WAS live lol).
Of course there might be better suggestions and stuff, it's just two easy ways of not having the chaos of today which lead to a tournament which lost so much excitement and feeling just because of the casting mess.
On September 19 2010 03:44 dabom88 wrote: Oh god the caster for Ragequit's stream is horrible. No idea why they keep getting him to cast their streams.
You probably should have changed streams then. -orb-'s stream was really good. He has really nice insight, especially when talking about Protoss.
On September 19 2010 03:44 dabom88 wrote: Oh god the caster for Ragequit's stream is horrible. No idea why they keep getting him to cast their streams.
I agree, as well December guy was quite poor choice as well.
Orb did an excellent job and provided good analysis as well not missing any action that many casters seem to usually miss. Even above and beyond suggesting ways for them to improve/talking about the current unit combination/strategy coming from the players.
Instead of just casters who go " okay hes making a barracks.. now hes moving..now hes dead.." plus general non knowledge in game mechanics or strategies or very light understanding with very little high level insight.
On September 19 2010 03:44 dabom88 wrote: Oh god the caster for Ragequit's stream is horrible. No idea why they keep getting him to cast their streams.
You probably should have changed streams then. -orb-'s stream was really good. He has really nice insight, especially when talking about Protoss.
Not having it live was kind of a bummer, but having no continuity with the replays was a lot worse. Waiting in between, or watching a seemingly random replay... yeah, I don't know, I kept hitting other tabs. But something a little less meaningful, like the ICCup KoTH? I can't stop watching. Maybe if it was a bit smoother with the replays, it wouldn't have FELT like I was watching meaningless replays.
Also, I caught some of orb's casting- he was awesome!
On September 19 2010 03:44 dabom88 wrote: Oh god the caster for Ragequit's stream is horrible. No idea why they keep getting him to cast their streams.
I agree. No offence, but a caster/presenter/anchor/etc must be able to speak clearly and properly. He may be very knowledgeable with regard to SC2, but his voice makes it a pain to watch the stream.
On September 19 2010 03:52 Acidlineup wrote: Orb did great as caster. Very informative.
Seriously. I loved his cast, blew the other streams away. His knowledge of the game is good and I really enjoyed how he would open up the replays post-match and analyze exactly what happened in pivotal battles. Just awesome stuff, fun to watch!
Will it be possible to have a low quality stream? People with shitty connection(yes it still exists) will appreciate that. lowering the quality from a normal quality stream is not enough.
On September 19 2010 03:47 Leviance wrote: One Possibility:
1. One Official ATL Open Stream
2. Thought out order of matches being casted
Do it like HDH. Cast games live. Show the Cast after the games. It really delivers more excitement and feels live (cause it WAS live lol).
1: That would mean the amount of games people could watch would be cut in 1/4 (or 1/5 since I think there was a 5th for a while). 2: That would add more and more delay to a tournament that is trying to be completed in a single day.
The HDH wasn't live. They were always cast off of replays.
On September 19 2010 04:00 positron. wrote: Did Morrow forfeit his match because he has to play the Vikings cup finals? I saw that Mana advance but there is no score.
On September 19 2010 04:05 butterbrain wrote: Referring to your listeners as "bitches" makes you cool -_-
Ya, Starcraft isn't going mainstream with language like that.
But then again, how many soccer moms are gonna be watching this anyways? I don't think the gaming demographic will mind a few swear words once in awhile (of course too much just gets annoying).
On September 19 2010 04:05 butterbrain wrote: Referring to your listeners as "bitches" makes you cool -_-
Ya, Starcraft isn't going mainstream with language like that.
But then again, how many soccer moms are gonna be watching this anyways? I don't think the gaming demographic will mind a few swear words once in awhile (of course too much just gets annoying).
Just because it's gamers doesn't mean we want vulgar and distasteful language. It's very unprofessional.
3 TvT's are clearly a bad thing if you want people to watch the matches. It's painful for me to watch because the stream's quality is too high for my connection. Pausing every 5 seconds for 2 seconds...
LOL 4 terrans in semi-finals! When are people going to realize that it's not a coincidence if this many terrans are consistently making it this far in tournaments.
On September 19 2010 04:21 Uhh Negative wrote: LOL 4 terrans in semi-finals! When are people going to realize that it's not a coincidence if this many terrans are consistently making it this far in tournaments.
And it's not (by far) the first tournament with 4T semi-finals. Expect more of that, even after the patch.
On September 19 2010 04:21 Uhh Negative wrote: LOL 4 terrans in semi-finals! When are people going to realize that it's not a coincidence if this many terrans are consistently making it this far in tournaments.
And it's not (by far) the first tournament with 4T semi-finals. Expect more of that, even after the patch.
Yeah I think people are realizing that terrans are actually overpowered and it's not just whining zergs. If those "leaked" patch notes are true I think things will play a lot better, but I doubt they are true.
On September 19 2010 04:28 Zzoram wrote: SeleCT had a pretty big advantage. He had 30 more workers, his 3rd was up first with a Planetary, and he had more production facilities.
Miscontroling your army and sending them into seige tanks can turn the game very quickly no matter what eco advantage one player has though.
On September 19 2010 04:30 Hold-Lurker wrote: Chill - would it still be a rematch if Drafter DC'd? Just wondering how refs would have called it.
Judging from past decisions, it would probably be a win for Select. If you're allowing people rematches when they disconnect in bad situations, they can cheat by just pulling the plug when they're not doing well.
On September 19 2010 04:30 Hold-Lurker wrote: Chill - would it still be a rematch if Drafter DC'd? Just wondering how refs would have called it.
Judging from past decisions, it would probably be a win for Select. If you're allowing people rematches when they disconnect in bad situations, they can cheat by just pulling the plug when they're not doing well.
That was the answer I was hoping for, wondering if TL admins saw it the same way.
On September 19 2010 04:30 Hold-Lurker wrote: Chill - would it still be a rematch if Drafter DC'd? Just wondering how refs would have called it.
Judging from past decisions, it would probably be a win for Select. If you're allowing people rematches when they disconnect in bad situations, they can cheat by just pulling the plug when they're not doing well.
Ya, that seems fair. If Drafter DC'd after being 30 workers and a base down, he should've been given a loss.
On September 19 2010 04:30 Hold-Lurker wrote: Chill - would it still be a rematch if Drafter DC'd? Just wondering how refs would have called it.
Judging from past decisions, it would probably be a win for Select. If you're allowing people rematches when they disconnect in bad situations, they can cheat by just pulling the plug when they're not doing well.
Yeah, the most logical rule is if you dc then you only get win if you are winning beyond reasonable doubt, but if opponent dc then you win if you have a significant advantage.
I thought Drafter had that, did a great job of reacting to the ghost build.
But his macro slipped while he was setting up that contain? He had no units at his base when Select sent his first maras over. Also, so many Vikings...
Shame it's not possible to mute one of the casters. Saying he should've concentrated on building more maruaders.. did he not notice how many rax with tech labs he had?
Select with lethal counterattack. Drafter could have done a little better to secure his position, but falls to a false sense of security because of the blockade.
The way Orb did replays only showing the one at a time did a lot to prevent self-spoilering by watching the stream, djwheat having them all in the same folder is kind of spoilering after seeing select win that game and knowing it's a bo3
On September 19 2010 04:47 SwiftBunny wrote: The way Orb did replays only showing the one at a time did a lot to prevent self-spoilering by watching the stream, djwheat having them all in the same folder is kind of spoilering after seeing select win that game and knowing it's a bo3
Thanks for spoiling the result to people who didn't catch that.
What the fk is up with people? Is this the olympic game spoiling contest or something? Did everyone just contract douchebag syndrome? Am I the only non-psychic left on the planet?
Mostly talking about the stream chat, but of course it goes on here too.
Why have the reps been released already? People are spoiling entire tournament results in chat because it's anonymous... simply for the sake of being dicks.
On September 19 2010 04:54 FabledIntegral wrote: Why have the reps been released already? People are spoiling entire tournament results in chat because it's anonymous... simply for the sake of being dicks.
why have chat open? dj's stream is so good you can fullscreen it, and it looks so nice
On September 19 2010 04:47 SwiftBunny wrote: The way Orb did replays only showing the one at a time did a lot to prevent self-spoilering by watching the stream, djwheat having them all in the same folder is kind of spoilering after seeing select win that game and knowing it's a bo3
The file lists mean nothing, as Chill just mentioned these games are being played so close to cast time that the casters may not have the entire series when they begin casting.
TL isn't nearly dumb enough to have an obvious spoiler like that on its stream, get real.
Really disagree with Chill about loser picks map, I'd much prefer a tourney with set map pools the whole way, something like Courage with just 3 maps for the whole tournament. I don't wanna see tvp alternate between the best tvp maps and the best pvt maps, much rather just have players play on the most balanced maps. Plus players only have to prepare on a few maps, which could lead to some better games.
On September 19 2010 04:47 SwiftBunny wrote: The way Orb did replays only showing the one at a time did a lot to prevent self-spoilering by watching the stream, djwheat having them all in the same folder is kind of spoilering after seeing select win that game and knowing it's a bo3
The file lists mean nothing, as Chill just mentioned these games are being played so close to cast time that the casters may not have the entire series when they begin casting.
TL isn't nearly dumb enough to have an obvious spoiler like that on its stream, get real.
yeah it's not as though they'd show a bracket with the results of matches in the stream before casting the replay...
On September 19 2010 04:54 FabledIntegral wrote: Why have the reps been released already? People are spoiling entire tournament results in chat because it's anonymous... simply for the sake of being dicks.
why have chat open? dj's stream is so good you can fullscreen it, and it looks so nice
I wasn't exactly aware that people were going to spoil? They already said the winner of the tourney in chat, I won't spoil obviously but it's just retarded. I always enjoy having chat open, but I guess this will have to be the solution to not use it if TL goes the replay route, which I still strongly disagree with. Yeah, maintaining integrity is important, but it's a completely different situation in replays vs live.
What was the reason they couldn't do delayed streaming again? I know they said they couldn't, just wondering the reason why.
On September 19 2010 04:54 FabledIntegral wrote: Why have the reps been released already? People are spoiling entire tournament results in chat because it's anonymous... simply for the sake of being dicks.
why have chat open? dj's stream is so good you can fullscreen it, and it looks so nice
I wasn't exactly aware that people were going to spoil? They already said the winner of the tourney in chat, I won't spoil obviously but it's just retarded. I always enjoy having chat open, but I guess this will have to be the solution to not use it if TL goes the replay route, which I still strongly disagree with. Yeah, maintaining integrity is important, but it's a completely different situation in replays vs live.
What was the reason they couldn't do delayed streaming again? I know they said they couldn't, just wondering the reason why.
On September 19 2010 04:47 SwiftBunny wrote: The way Orb did replays only showing the one at a time did a lot to prevent self-spoilering by watching the stream, djwheat having them all in the same folder is kind of spoilering after seeing select win that game and knowing it's a bo3
The file lists mean nothing, as Chill just mentioned these games are being played so close to cast time that the casters may not have the entire series when they begin casting.
TL isn't nearly dumb enough to have an obvious spoiler like that on its stream, get real.
yeah it's not as though they'd show a bracket with the results of matches in the stream before casting the replay...
Totally!
To be fair though, there's a difference between an oversight (spoiling by file list which was obviously going to be on stream before games) and a one-time freak mistake (bracket popping on stream inadvertently). My point was that the casters are smart enough to avoid a stupid oversight. (Freak mistakes are prone to happen from time to time.)
On September 19 2010 04:54 FabledIntegral wrote: Why have the reps been released already? People are spoiling entire tournament results in chat because it's anonymous... simply for the sake of being dicks.
why have chat open? dj's stream is so good you can fullscreen it, and it looks so nice
I wasn't exactly aware that people were going to spoil? They already said the winner of the tourney in chat, I won't spoil obviously but it's just retarded. I always enjoy having chat open, but I guess this will have to be the solution to not use it if TL goes the replay route, which I still strongly disagree with. Yeah, maintaining integrity is important, but it's a completely different situation in replays vs live.
What was the reason they couldn't do delayed streaming again? I know they said they couldn't, just wondering the reason why.
To my knowledge the final isn't played yet.
Well someone spoiled this coming semi final. There is nothing to stop someone doing it again when the final is done.
On September 19 2010 04:54 FabledIntegral wrote: Why have the reps been released already? People are spoiling entire tournament results in chat because it's anonymous... simply for the sake of being dicks.
why have chat open? dj's stream is so good you can fullscreen it, and it looks so nice
I wasn't exactly aware that people were going to spoil? They already said the winner of the tourney in chat, I won't spoil obviously but it's just retarded. I always enjoy having chat open, but I guess this will have to be the solution to not use it if TL goes the replay route, which I still strongly disagree with. Yeah, maintaining integrity is important, but it's a completely different situation in replays vs live.
What was the reason they couldn't do delayed streaming again? I know they said they couldn't, just wondering the reason why.
To my knowledge the final isn't played yet.
Ah, it was both semi-finals that were spoiled. Someone went into the match histories of the players I guess to spoil.
On September 19 2010 04:54 FabledIntegral wrote: Why have the reps been released already? People are spoiling entire tournament results in chat because it's anonymous... simply for the sake of being dicks.
why have chat open? dj's stream is so good you can fullscreen it, and it looks so nice
I wasn't exactly aware that people were going to spoil? They already said the winner of the tourney in chat, I won't spoil obviously but it's just retarded. I always enjoy having chat open, but I guess this will have to be the solution to not use it if TL goes the replay route, which I still strongly disagree with. Yeah, maintaining integrity is important, but it's a completely different situation in replays vs live.
What was the reason they couldn't do delayed streaming again? I know they said they couldn't, just wondering the reason why.
Fair enough, I didn't think that people had spoiled other parts of the tourney. I guess you should be able to chat- but from experience you should know that spoilers are gonna arise.
On September 19 2010 04:54 FabledIntegral wrote: Why have the reps been released already? People are spoiling entire tournament results in chat because it's anonymous... simply for the sake of being dicks.
why have chat open? dj's stream is so good you can fullscreen it, and it looks so nice
I wasn't exactly aware that people were going to spoil? They already said the winner of the tourney in chat, I won't spoil obviously but it's just retarded. I always enjoy having chat open, but I guess this will have to be the solution to not use it if TL goes the replay route, which I still strongly disagree with. Yeah, maintaining integrity is important, but it's a completely different situation in replays vs live.
What was the reason they couldn't do delayed streaming again? I know they said they couldn't, just wondering the reason why.
To my knowledge the final isn't played yet.
Well someone spoiled this coming semi final. There is nothing to stop someone doing it again when the final is done.
That's preferred, compared to the alternative of the games themselves being spoiled, when players get additional information.
One reason is to do with eliminating any chance of players having the stream up on a second monitor or having a friend watching the stream and messaging one of the players info.
Reliable tech is just not available to delay a live stream significantly to get around the problem afaik.
On September 19 2010 05:14 Muffel wrote: im so damn angry about this replaycasting....its so bad whats the reason for that? is it because of these 2-3 progamers complaining about lags?
comparing it with zotac and go4sc2 its not even halt thrilling imo
well also ghosting (listening to the stream while playing), lags etc
On September 19 2010 05:17 Alphaes wrote: Goddamnit, at least force login to chat, so you can ban the spoiler spamming fuckers already.
View on djWHEAT's ustream page, chat under the stream on tl embedded vid is a fake chat for spammers or login into TL's irc, check for links under the left sidebar.
Tourneys really should be getting castes live with a 3 minute delay. The excitement just isn't as there even though it feels like the same thing. If you guys are having trouble adding a delay PM me, it's really not that hard. And it would make the matches more interesting.
On September 19 2010 05:24 Skillz_Man wrote: Tourneys really should be getting castes live with a 3 minute delay. The excitement just isn't as there even though it feels like the same thing. If you guys are having trouble adding a delay PM me, it's really not that hard. And it would make the matches more interesting.
On September 19 2010 05:16 Full.tilt wrote: One reason is to do with eliminating any chance of players having the stream up on a second monitor or having a friend watching the stream and messaging one of the players info.
Reliable tech is just not available to delay a live stream significantly to get around the problem afaik.
there were so many zotac cups and go4sc2 cups and it was fine... i can understand to fear unknown gamers to be cheating but in the semi final between tarson and strelok anybody thinks that they are cheating?...
if the lag is such a huge problem i wonder why even the players complaining the most about the lag with streamer are playing close to every go4sc2 cup...
anyways i dont want to talk the tournament bad to you.. if you like it its fine i will just not watching the next tournament with replaycasts :/
On September 19 2010 05:16 Full.tilt wrote: One reason is to do with eliminating any chance of players having the stream up on a second monitor or having a friend watching the stream and messaging one of the players info.
Reliable tech is just not available to delay a live stream significantly to get around the problem afaik.
there were so many zotac cups and go4sc2 cups and it was fine... i can understand to fear unknown gamers to be cheating but in the semi final between tarson and strelok anybody thinks that they are cheating?...
if the lag is such a huge problem i wonder why even the players complaining the most about the lag with streamer are playing close to every go4sc2 cup...
anyways i dont want to talk the tournament bad to you.. if you like it its fine i will just not watching the next tournament with replaycasts :/
That's exactly the problem though. TSL2 was full of cheaters that people thought would never cheat and were big names in the community. And that was when there was a chance of getting found out. Now imagine cheating with no consequences.
e-sports really has to get in touch with media-science on this one - there have been countless research-studies and much theoretical work on the "live" experience compared to watching recorded stuff
you can't put it in a nut-shell, but basicly it's about the feeling to participate at something that still has a somewhat "random" outcome; which means, when you "know" that the stuff you're watching has already a defined "result", psychology tells us that there is much less thrill about how it's going to end: because the end already exists; won't elaborate further, but people who are interested in this could use google-books or university-library, there is really lots of stuff on this issue
what i wanna know is why we have djWHEAT commentating when he is completley clueless. talk about the game when you're not struggling in gold in 2v2 and 3v3 bronze bro
On September 19 2010 05:24 Skillz_Man wrote: Tourneys really should be getting castes live with a 3 minute delay. The excitement just isn't as there even though it feels like the same thing. If you guys are having trouble adding a delay PM me, it's really not that hard. And it would make the matches more interesting.
3 min delay doesn't solve cheating.
Oh please, 3 minutes solves everything except a potentially hidden expo. Geez, if you wanna be like that, how about you need a live webcam feed of their room... It's not like that, and 3 minutes does solve cheating in 99% of games. And not everyone would cheat anyways.
You know how the TSL worked. You could try cheating? And get caught. Yeah...
On September 19 2010 05:30 hazz wrote: what i wanna know is why we have djWHEAT commentating when he is completley clueless. talk about the game when you're not struggling in gold in 2v2 and 3v3 bronze bro
On September 19 2010 05:38 travis wrote: i don't understand why people have to be such whiny bitches because it's replays
it doesn't matter at all if it's live or not
IT DOESN'T MATTER AT ALL
if ur worried about spoilers then yeah don't view the chat, that's kind of gay... gotta deal with it, it's bnets fault
but if ur complaining about "lack of excitement".... well what the hell, that's your problem, it's completely mental.
Well then why are there thousands of people up at 3am watching scbw when they can watch YouTube videos... Yeah. Why do you buy a live ticket to a hockey game if you can watch it on TV. It's more hype and more excitment.
It is a part of a mental aspect but it's ridicolous to say that replays = live.
On September 19 2010 05:38 travis wrote: i don't understand why people have to be such whiny bitches because it's replays
it doesn't matter at all if it's live or not
IT DOESN'T MATTER AT ALL
if ur worried about spoilers then yeah don't view the chat, that's kind of gay... gotta deal with it, it's bnets fault
but if ur complaining about "lack of excitement".... well what the hell, that's your problem, it's completely mental.
Well then why are there thousands of people up at 3am watching scbw when they can watch YouTube videos... Yeah. Why do you buy a live ticket to a hockey game if you can watch it on TV. It's more hype and more excitment.
It is a part of a mental aspect but it's ridicolous to say that replays = live.
On September 19 2010 05:38 travis wrote: i don't understand why people have to be such whiny bitches because it's replays
it doesn't matter at all if it's live or not
IT DOESN'T MATTER AT ALL
if ur worried about spoilers then yeah don't view the chat, that's kind of gay... gotta deal with it, it's bnets fault
but if ur complaining about "lack of excitement".... well what the hell, that's your problem, it's completely mental.
Well then why are there thousands of people up at 3am watching scbw when they can watch YouTube videos... Yeah.
because they want to watch it at the same time as everyone else, as soon as they can. if the sc/bw results weren't released but the games came on 2 hours later would everyone still watch it then? yes would there still be massive hype? yes. just as much.
now obviously the results *would* get released but that's not the point here, at all.
Why do you buy a live ticket to a hockey game if you can watch it on TV. It's more hype and more excitment.
do you really think this is a reasonable comparison? you should have just stuck to the first one..
like i said, this is all mental. if you don't know the results and you are watching the games at the same time as everyone else there is no problem except whatever u make up in your own mind
On September 19 2010 05:28 sleepingdog wrote: e-sports really has to get in touch with media-science on this one - there have been countless research-studies and much theoretical work on the "live" experience compared to watching recorded stuff
you can't put it in a nut-shell, but basicly it's about the feeling to participate at something that still has a somewhat "random" outcome; which means, when you "know" that the stuff you're watching has already a defined "result", psychology tells us that there is much less thrill about how it's going to end: because the end already exists; won't elaborate further, but people who are interested in this could use google-books or university-library, there is really lots of stuff on this issue
didn't know there was that much research in that direction, sounds really fascinating, thanks for the tip, gonna search right now! can you maybe give me names of key theories or books?
On September 19 2010 05:38 travis wrote: i don't understand why people have to be such whiny bitches because it's replays
it doesn't matter at all if it's live or not
IT DOESN'T MATTER AT ALL
if ur worried about spoilers then yeah don't view the chat, that's kind of gay... gotta deal with it, it's bnets fault
but if ur complaining about "lack of excitement".... well what the hell, that's your problem, it's completely mental.
Well then why are there thousands of people up at 3am watching scbw when they can watch YouTube videos... Yeah. Why do you buy a live ticket to a hockey game if you can watch it on TV. It's more hype and more excitment.
It is a part of a mental aspect but it's ridicolous to say that replays = live.
People wake up at 3AM to be part of the live broadcast, not because they believe they have to see the games as they are being played or they will for whatever reason feel out of the loop.
You're conflating the draw of watching a broadcast live (significant, and we're all experiencing it now watching this tourney) and watching a game as it is being played (very very little when you consider that results have not been released and the games are just now being broadcast for the first time).
On September 19 2010 05:41 hazz wrote: seriously... "OHH MY GAWWWDDDDDDDDDDDDDD" ? insightful commentary meight
Djwheat just happens to be one of the best e-sports commentator out there, and he have been casting for over a decade.
If you don't like it I suggest you fuck off and do something else instead. Same goes to that Full tilt guy, go and play poker or something.
haha seriously? Djwheat is clueless, if someone who talks a lot and says "OMFG!" every time he looks at a unit moving near an enemy, and doesnt even know what PDD does != a good commentator, nevermind one of the "best".
also "Go and play poker"? rofl. how long did it take you to think of that one?
Let's put it this way - imagine live broadcasting from within the game wasn't even technically possible (which in some sense is true), so the only way to watch a game was that some people play it, and then the replay is broadcasted asap. Would that reduce the excitement? Nope.
And keep in mind the problems with in-game broadcasters, the annoyance for players, the lag, the cheating. In the end the quality of the game itself is of the highest priority, and it gains from this.
On September 19 2010 05:38 travis wrote: i don't understand why people have to be such whiny bitches because it's replays
it doesn't matter at all if it's live or not
IT DOESN'T MATTER AT ALL
if ur worried about spoilers then yeah don't view the chat, that's kind of gay... gotta deal with it, it's bnets fault
but if ur complaining about "lack of excitement".... well what the hell, that's your problem, it's completely mental.
Well then why are there thousands of people up at 3am watching scbw when they can watch YouTube videos... Yeah. Why do you buy a live ticket to a hockey game if you can watch it on TV. It's more hype and more excitment.
It is a part of a mental aspect but it's ridicolous to say that replays = live.
People wake up at 3AM to be part of the live broadcast, not because they believe they have to see the games as they are being played or they will for whatever reason feel out of the loop.
You're conflating the draw of watching a broadcast live (significant, and we're all experiencing it now watching this tourney) and watching a game as it is being played (very very little when you consider that results have not been released and the games are just now being broadcast for the first time).
i think everyone knows that its not logical to complain about they cast replays, but its just that many people think its not as thrilling as live. (at least on the biggest german esportssite no one cares about the tournament since its replaycasted.. in the comments everyone complains about it..) its just not realy explainable... for me its just like watching some random dude casting a replay on his youtubechannel, where is the difference? i cant see a difference to be honest its just as "thrilling" at least the replays castet on youtubechannels are definetly exciting cause they were chosen for a reason...
well again im sry for whining was my last post in this thread(if no one asks me smth in here).
@two above me im wondering why there are two cups with a 1024 and a 512 grid every sunday, FULL. with many many many progamers though its all about cheating and lagging.
and yes it would be worse if they'd cast only replays.. + if other tournements cast live and ATLO not, than it feels like not as entertaining
On September 19 2010 05:55 figq wrote: Let's put it this way - imagine live broadcasting from within the game wasn't even technically possible (which in some sense is true), so the only way to watch a game was that some people play it, and then the replay is broadcasted asap. Would that reduce the excitement? Nope.
Yeah I mean the funny thing is that TL could easily say that this was being played live and nobody would know the difference. But mention "replays" and all of a sudden some kids raise all sorts of irrational objections.
On September 19 2010 05:55 figq wrote: Let's put it this way - imagine live broadcasting from within the game wasn't even technically possible (which in some sense is true), so the only way to watch a game was that some people play it, and then the replay is broadcasted asap. Would that reduce the excitement? Nope.
Yeah I mean the funny thing is that TL could easily say that this was being played live and nobody would know the difference. But mention "replays" and all of a sudden some kids raise all sorts of irrational objections.
Yup and surprisingly the stream is getting just as many viewers as any 512 cup would have gotten live.
On September 19 2010 05:55 figq wrote: Let's put it this way - imagine live broadcasting from within the game wasn't even technically possible (which in some sense is true), so the only way to watch a game was that some people play it, and then the replay is broadcasted asap. Would that reduce the excitement? Nope.
Yeah I mean the funny thing is that TL could easily say that this was being played live and nobody would know the difference. But mention "replays" and all of a sudden some kids raise all sorts of irrational objections.
It amuses me how many people think the HDH was cast live and not through replays as well. Only when its talked about does it suddenly become an issue.
On September 19 2010 05:55 figq wrote: Let's put it this way - imagine live broadcasting from within the game wasn't even technically possible (which in some sense is true), so the only way to watch a game was that some people play it, and then the replay is broadcasted asap. Would that reduce the excitement? Nope.
Yeah I mean the funny thing is that TL could easily say that this was being played live and nobody would know the difference. But mention "replays" and all of a sudden some kids raise all sorts of irrational objections.
It's merely the vocal minority that like to complain. People have this sense of entitlement that makes them think they better than they are.
On September 19 2010 06:05 I_Love_Bacon wrote: It amuses me how many people think the HDH was cast live and not through replays as well. Only when its talked about does it suddenly become an issue.
People complained about it during HDH, too. It's just that now people don't really remember.
On September 19 2010 05:55 figq wrote: Let's put it this way - imagine live broadcasting from within the game wasn't even technically possible (which in some sense is true), so the only way to watch a game was that some people play it, and then the replay is broadcasted asap. Would that reduce the excitement? Nope.
Yeah I mean the funny thing is that TL could easily say that this was being played live and nobody would know the difference.
I, for one, would definitely know the difference. You don't have replay controls in live games.
On September 19 2010 05:55 figq wrote: Let's put it this way - imagine live broadcasting from within the game wasn't even technically possible (which in some sense is true), so the only way to watch a game was that some people play it, and then the replay is broadcasted asap. Would that reduce the excitement? Nope.
Yeah I mean the funny thing is that TL could easily say that this was being played live and nobody would know the difference.
I, for one, would definitely know the difference. You don't have replay controls in live games.
You only don't have 3 features. FF/Pause/Going forward or back. So how exactly will you know?
On September 19 2010 05:55 figq wrote: Let's put it this way - imagine live broadcasting from within the game wasn't even technically possible (which in some sense is true), so the only way to watch a game was that some people play it, and then the replay is broadcasted asap. Would that reduce the excitement? Nope.
Yeah I mean the funny thing is that TL could easily say that this was being played live and nobody would know the difference.
I, for one, would definitely know the difference. You don't have replay controls in live games.
You only don't have 3 features. FF/Pause/Going forward or back. So how exactly will you know?
I think next TL Open should be cast live but with an image overlay that looks like the replay controls.
Unfortunately, viewers will have to get into the habit of watching streams without chat when they are casting replays. 4k+ viewers and there is always going to be someone that checks players histories and spoils it for everyone else
On September 19 2010 05:55 figq wrote: Let's put it this way - imagine live broadcasting from within the game wasn't even technically possible (which in some sense is true), so the only way to watch a game was that some people play it, and then the replay is broadcasted asap. Would that reduce the excitement? Nope.
Yeah I mean the funny thing is that TL could easily say that this was being played live and nobody would know the difference.
I, for one, would definitely know the difference. You don't have replay controls in live games.
You only don't have 3 features. FF/Pause/Going forward or back. So how exactly will you know?
I think next TL Open should be cast live but with an image overlay that looks like the replay controls.
Hahahaha that would be classic. The only "control" though is the time bar. So would have to get an animated one.
On September 19 2010 05:55 figq wrote: Let's put it this way - imagine live broadcasting from within the game wasn't even technically possible (which in some sense is true), so the only way to watch a game was that some people play it, and then the replay is broadcasted asap. Would that reduce the excitement? Nope.
Yeah I mean the funny thing is that TL could easily say that this was being played live and nobody would know the difference.
I, for one, would definitely know the difference. You don't have replay controls in live games.
You only don't have 3 features. FF/Pause/Going forward or back. So how exactly will you know?
I think next TL Open should be cast live but with an image overlay that looks like the replay controls.
+1 to that idea.
Those who hate replays being cast for some reason find it in themselves to be the problem by spoiling it. "O you're not casting it live but replays? Well fuck you, I'm going to spoil it for you then". That does not resolve anything and that's why discussions never get anywhere.
On September 19 2010 05:59 Muffel wrote: im wondering why there are two cups with a 1024 and a 512 grid every sunday, FULL. with many many many progamers though its all about cheating and lagging.
and yes it would be worse if they'd cast only replays.. + if other tournements cast live and ATLO not, than it feels like not as entertaining
You actually refer to tournaments that are held mainly on the EU server with most of the gamers and casters in the same well connected region. Plus those tournaments don't have as many casters. If you want a broader perspective, check HuK's thread. There's a lot of latency and distraction from obsing.
like i said, this is all mental. if you don't know the results and you are watching the games at the same time as everyone else there is no problem except whatever u make up in your own mind
Well, of course it's all 'mental', that doesn't make it any less real though. Excitement in itself is a psychological response, and arguing about how watching casted replies logically shouldn't be different from watching something live doesn't get you anywhere. And yes, it would be different if people wouldn't know that replays were casted, but that's the whole point.
It certainly is hard to give concrete reasons for it, besides a vague "it feels less exciting". I've thought about it at length, ever since watching day9's KotB, trying to come up with an explanation for myself why i felt less excited then I thought I should. I think the fundamental reason is, and others have mentioned that before, that you are watching something predetermined. A delayed stream, even if it's delayed by 15 minutes or more, at least give the illusion that the outcome is still in the open, and since we're talking about psychological effects, just having the illusion is as good as the real thing.
Or to be more concrete, the difference between a delayed cast and a replayed cast is that delayed casts gives you the casters live reaction to ongoing events, while with replays casters and viewers both share the knowledge that the game is already over.
Another aspect is that with replays, you can never be sure that the casters doesn't already know the result. With KotB, that was one my biggest gripes, knowing (or suspecting), that day9 already knew the results, therefor having to fake the enthusiasm. Whether he really did (and as it turned out he did know) is besides the point, as that nagging feeling in the back of your mind is enough.
Those are just little aspects that make up, but not fully explain, why, at least for me, watching casted replays is less exciting then watching something live, even if it's delayed.
On September 19 2010 06:10 Quetz wrote: Unfortunately, viewers will have to get into the habit of watching streams without chat when they are casting replays. 4k+ viewers and there is always going to be someone that checks players histories and spoils it for everyone else
This, someone spoiled every game I watched in stream chat. I guess I can't open chat in replay casts.
I don't get SelecT, all of a sudden he's this person pretty much no one has heard of who gets on top of the ladder. Few weeks later he turns out to be a fucking beast. I thought Strelok would just roll over him but clearly I was wrong.
On September 19 2010 06:49 vyyye wrote: I don't get SelecT, all of a sudden he's this person pretty much no one has heard of who gets on top of the ladder. Few weeks later he turns out to be a fucking beast. I thought Strelok would just roll over him but clearly I was wrong.
Being a pro wc3 player and WCG gold medalist (twice) in DoW is unknown?
On September 19 2010 06:49 vyyye wrote: I don't get SelecT, all of a sudden he's this person pretty much no one has heard of who gets on top of the ladder. Few weeks later he turns out to be a fucking beast. I thought Strelok would just roll over him but clearly I was wrong.
Wat? SelecT is a well known player... even played Wc3 for some time. Not BW though afaik.
On September 19 2010 06:49 vyyye wrote: I don't get SelecT, all of a sudden he's this person pretty much no one has heard of who gets on top of the ladder. Few weeks later he turns out to be a fucking beast. I thought Strelok would just roll over him but clearly I was wrong.
:/ SelecT has been around in esports for a long time and also since Starcraft 2 was released.
On September 19 2010 06:49 vyyye wrote: I don't get SelecT, all of a sudden he's this person pretty much no one has heard of who gets on top of the ladder. Few weeks later he turns out to be a fucking beast. I thought Strelok would just roll over him but clearly I was wrong.
SeleCT just RAPED Strelok last time they faced, and im not saying he won convincingly, he raped the shit outa him
and he beat MorroW in a bo5 in Go4Sc2 or Zotac finals (cant remember)
he's easily one of the top3 terrans outside of korea
On September 19 2010 06:49 vyyye wrote: I don't get SelecT, all of a sudden he's this person pretty much no one has heard of who gets on top of the ladder. Few weeks later he turns out to be a fucking beast. I thought Strelok would just roll over him but clearly I was wrong.
Being a pro wc3 player and WCG gold medalist (twice) in DoW is unknown?
Mh, not everyone played WC3 or DoW. When his name first popped up on the ladder the majority wasn't really saying he'd become this good at SC this fast.
Grats Select, as the finals are from replays could TL send them to other casters as well? Listening to wheat and watching his terribad observing for that long is kinda tough. Although all the games being TvT probably contributed to that
final game is a good example why its good casted from replays, had that been live someone could scream "wow select obviously watching stream" or something
Interesting series of games, though I was surprised and annoyed the amount of haters that kept spoiling the games (curse you fake Dimaga for spoiling the finals!). I guess this means I should never have chat on again for replay casts, which is kind of disappointing since often times chatters catch little bits the casters miss.
On September 19 2010 08:01 AmiPolizeiFunk wrote: Where is SeleCt's citizenship? Korea or US? This would be helpful when writing about these finals. Thx in advance.
On September 19 2010 08:01 AmiPolizeiFunk wrote: Where is SeleCt's citizenship? Korea or US? This would be helpful when writing about these finals. Thx in advance.
On September 19 2010 08:55 thedeadhaji wrote: imo, best part about this event was seeing a relative unknown (drafter) get to the top 4.
The lesser known guys need marquee events to make a name for themselves
I'm sure I've heard of 'drafter' quite a few times, but it feels like that was long enough ago to be during the beta. Maybe it's my memory playing tricks, he played well though.
On September 19 2010 08:34 AmiPolizeiFunk wrote: I know he's Korean living in the US, but I'm curious as to his citizenship. What flag should we put by his name, basically?
He's lived in Korea (and even represented Korea at WCG for DoW) for a quite number of years, and he's assimilating into America to study/live with family now.
But yer, just wanted to thank TL/Altitude for the tournament. Was awesome to watch
I'm sure a lot was learned from making this event, I think what could make next tournaments like this even better would be to have more streamers(that is to say more games being streamed), fx. getting 1 streamer to just follow each pro/high lvl player(if he allows being streamed). Having the streaming possibly more set in stone beforehand(but at the same time i understand it is a logistical nightmare).
heyo folks,when are you going to release the reps? thanks for the tour btw almost epic comeback from strelok. That guy is finally starting to get some results,very underrated player like in bw
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Hot_Bid/TLOpen/Altitude_TLO_Thin.png)
