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Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-17 15:17:15
September 17 2010 15:16 GMT
#1241
have you guys missed kiwi vs dimaga? A solid P can roll a zerg without collosus just as well. Really if protoss forces zerg build corruptors by building collosus he has already succeeded by gaining advantage in supply and resources.
Corruptors are only good against a-moving P's who overcommit to building collosus.
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
wxwx
Profile Joined May 2010
527 Posts
September 17 2010 15:28 GMT
#1242
i was really shocked when a pretty small colossus army took on like 30 hydras and won.. but you zergs need to calm down, this doesn't mean imbalance. it's just a demonstration of hard counters. I'm sure you've seen a handful of ultras rape infinite stalkers, or a few hydras holding off a 4gate.

If you look at zenio's reaction after that defeat.. I cannot help but feel sorry for him.. but is that the face of someone who lost to imba? If I knew anything, that's the face of someone who knew he threw the game away....
Heen
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
Korea (South)2178 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-17 15:35:54
September 17 2010 15:33 GMT
#1243
On September 17 2010 23:59 Pinith wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2010 23:40 Heen wrote:
To be fair, Zenio only denied gas and did minimal unit damage. Then he suicided a big chunk of his army infrot of P's base without spreading creeps. Looking at it from an objective view, P made few, non major mistakes while Z fucked up majorly losing the advantage he was holding on to.


Early on, he isolated and destroyed 5 zealots, and forced 3 cannons---thats 1000 minerals. I'm not sure how that is 'minimal'. From the cliff he got to destroy 2 of those cannons, a forge, some pylons, and the assimilator (twice). A siege tank drop that did the same thing would be considered a lot of damage.

I'd also rate trapping a bunch of zealots outside of your base with a wall a bigger mistake than not spreading creep perfectly.

It wasn't a hit to his economy and those zealots served their purpose which was to protect the gateway until he could secure cannons. I wouldn't called them trapped by the zerg, just cleaned up.

P was forced to spawn zealots outside and they weren't wasted. After that P took a fairly early expo which put him in a good position and the zerg also 'leaked units' as both his nydus worms were sniped shortly after. Nydus worms aren't free either and neither are the units he lost in attempting to damage the P.

Losing half your army killing almost nothing is a bigger mistake than losing a big chunk of your income momentarily as replenishing that many units in a short time is impossible while P was in constant production.

You can't just compare the costs of lost units and structures to see who got the better end.

In justfake vs Check, the Korea commentators were noting that Check was sacrificing his more mutas (in terms of cost) to kill less siege tanks because siege tanks were more vital to T than mutas for Z.
('''(G_G/'''')
Philosophy
Profile Joined May 2010
186 Posts
September 17 2010 15:50 GMT
#1244
On September 18 2010 00:28 wxwx wrote:
i was really shocked when a pretty small colossus army took on like 30 hydras and won.. but you zergs need to calm down, this doesn't mean imbalance. it's just a demonstration of hard counters. I'm sure you've seen a handful of ultras rape infinite stalkers, or a few hydras holding off a 4gate.

If you look at zenio's reaction after that defeat.. I cannot help but feel sorry for him.. but is that the face of someone who lost to imba? If I knew anything, that's the face of someone who knew he threw the game away....


Few Hydras holding off 4 gate? I dunno if you have tested it, but hydras aren't cost effective vs stalkers.....
Zerg simply is supposed to be the reactionary race, yet its the one with the least hard counters.
SKtheAnathema
Profile Joined September 2010
United States885 Posts
September 17 2010 16:18 GMT
#1245
stalker is the new marauder
CrazedManiac
Profile Joined July 2010
40 Posts
September 17 2010 16:30 GMT
#1246
Check fighting!
Rudiment
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States174 Posts
September 17 2010 16:52 GMT
#1247
That check pwnage was so gnarly
wxwx
Profile Joined May 2010
527 Posts
September 17 2010 17:32 GMT
#1248
On September 18 2010 00:50 Philosophy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2010 00:28 wxwx wrote:
i was really shocked when a pretty small colossus army took on like 30 hydras and won.. but you zergs need to calm down, this doesn't mean imbalance. it's just a demonstration of hard counters. I'm sure you've seen a handful of ultras rape infinite stalkers, or a few hydras holding off a 4gate.

If you look at zenio's reaction after that defeat.. I cannot help but feel sorry for him.. but is that the face of someone who lost to imba? If I knew anything, that's the face of someone who knew he threw the game away....


Few Hydras holding off 4 gate? I dunno if you have tested it, but hydras aren't cost effective vs stalkers.....
Zerg simply is supposed to be the reactionary race, yet its the one with the least hard counters.


hydras are very cost effective vs. all gateway units as long as you match his numbers. I don't know what you're doing wrong. Maybe a-moving your army would help?

no race can go with 1 build and win. All 3 races are reactionary. Just because you labelled yourself as the reactionary race doesn't mean you're entitled to anything. Play with what you have and just enjoy the game.
st3roids
Profile Joined June 2010
Greece538 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-17 17:40:40
September 17 2010 17:39 GMT
#1249
Played a plat look alike terran and still had to control the whole map with 6 expansions to do it .

spare us with the mouse - cat nonsense - itsa big bucks here ,if he could have won in the first 5 mins he could have done it

Why u ever think is something wrong here ;p


no chance vs a great terran ( which is the next game ) imo , good thing theyre rly few of them
sleepingdog
Profile Joined August 2008
Austria6145 Posts
September 17 2010 17:48 GMT
#1250
cmon now, complaining that colossi actually rape hydras, you gotta be kidding me

I mean, if the zerg gets a critical number of brood-lords this hard-counters basicly everything protoss has on the ground, because nothing will get through the wall-of-broodlings - so what? colossi in a critical number are pretty hard to get and still the zerg would've had a great chance of winning if he hadn't suicided his hydras

also calling phoenixes OP is ridiculous; the only thing the zerg has to do is sack an overloard for scouting and slowly outmacro the protoss while protecting his bases with hydras; phoenixes DO NOT have infinite energy, if you constantly harass each phoenix can pretty much do only one lift-off; and since they do by definition no damage vs ground 2 spore-crawlers at each expo are also huge; zergs have to use spore-crawlers more against phoenixes, I get the feeling that most are used to mutas and banshees owning static-defense when in critical numbers; that's obviously not the case with phoenixes
"You see....YOU SEE..." © 2010 Sen
Dookie1
Profile Joined September 2010
United States70 Posts
September 17 2010 17:52 GMT
#1251
check prime and tester representing the zerg
im the best
IPA
Profile Joined August 2010
United States3206 Posts
September 17 2010 18:22 GMT
#1252
Forgive my ignorance as I haven't been following GSL as closely as I would like -- is FruitSeller still in? Was he ever in? If not, who did he lose to?
Time held me green and dying though I sang in my chains like the sea.
st3roids
Profile Joined June 2010
Greece538 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-17 18:30:13
September 17 2010 18:27 GMT
#1253
On September 18 2010 03:22 IPA wrote:
Forgive my ignorance as I haven't been following GSL as closely as I would like -- is FruitSeller still in? Was he ever in? If not, who did he lose to?



Its in m8 , heres the schedule http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/GOMTV_Starcraft_II_Open_1/Main_Event .

He face ogstop in next matchup
leveller
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Sweden1840 Posts
September 17 2010 18:36 GMT
#1254
Whats up with the razer banner in the back? I dont think it was there before and tasteless didnt mention them as a sponsor.
CruelZeratul
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany4588 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-17 18:38:42
September 17 2010 18:37 GMT
#1255
On September 18 2010 02:52 Dookie1 wrote:
check prime and tester representing the zerg


Thats interesting.
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
September 17 2010 18:39 GMT
#1256
On September 18 2010 02:32 wxwx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2010 00:50 Philosophy wrote:
On September 18 2010 00:28 wxwx wrote:
i was really shocked when a pretty small colossus army took on like 30 hydras and won.. but you zergs need to calm down, this doesn't mean imbalance. it's just a demonstration of hard counters. I'm sure you've seen a handful of ultras rape infinite stalkers, or a few hydras holding off a 4gate.

If you look at zenio's reaction after that defeat.. I cannot help but feel sorry for him.. but is that the face of someone who lost to imba? If I knew anything, that's the face of someone who knew he threw the game away....


Few Hydras holding off 4 gate? I dunno if you have tested it, but hydras aren't cost effective vs stalkers.....
Zerg simply is supposed to be the reactionary race, yet its the one with the least hard counters.


hydras are very cost effective vs. all gateway units as long as you match his numbers. I don't know what you're doing wrong. Maybe a-moving your army would help?

no race can go with 1 build and win. All 3 races are reactionary. Just because you labelled yourself as the reactionary race doesn't mean you're entitled to anything. Play with what you have and just enjoy the game.

"as long as you match his numbers" if you do, you will have like 8 drones.

Also, "all 3 races are reactionary". Terran can decide to do whatever he wants to do against Zerg and it's the Zerg who needs to deal with it. Z can't do anything like that against Terran.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Philosophy
Profile Joined May 2010
186 Posts
September 17 2010 18:49 GMT
#1257
On September 18 2010 02:32 wxwx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2010 00:50 Philosophy wrote:
On September 18 2010 00:28 wxwx wrote:
i was really shocked when a pretty small colossus army took on like 30 hydras and won.. but you zergs need to calm down, this doesn't mean imbalance. it's just a demonstration of hard counters. I'm sure you've seen a handful of ultras rape infinite stalkers, or a few hydras holding off a 4gate.

If you look at zenio's reaction after that defeat.. I cannot help but feel sorry for him.. but is that the face of someone who lost to imba? If I knew anything, that's the face of someone who knew he threw the game away....


Few Hydras holding off 4 gate? I dunno if you have tested it, but hydras aren't cost effective vs stalkers.....
Zerg simply is supposed to be the reactionary race, yet its the one with the least hard counters.


hydras are very cost effective vs. all gateway units as long as you match his numbers. I don't know what you're doing wrong. Maybe a-moving your army would help?

no race can go with 1 build and win. All 3 races are reactionary. Just because you labelled yourself as the reactionary race doesn't mean you're entitled to anything. Play with what you have and just enjoy the game.


Hydra: 80 HP, 12 damage, 0,83 attack rate, 0 armor
Stalker: 160 HP, 10 damage, 1,44 attack rate, 1 armor

Notice how the stalker has twice the HP + armor while having more than half of the Hydras dps (because the hydras dps gets lowered considerably by that 1 armor). So no, Hydras are NOT cost effective vs Stalkers. The fact that stalkers have 6 range and high speed right away make it even worse.
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
September 17 2010 19:03 GMT
#1258
On September 18 2010 00:11 Philosophy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2010 22:50 MrCon wrote:
On September 17 2010 22:20 Philosophy wrote:
On September 17 2010 21:05 MrCon wrote:
On September 17 2010 19:16 Fa1nT wrote:
It's amazing how much better Vikings are vs colossi than the unit that is supposed to hard counter them... Corruptors.

I guess terrans are smarter than zerg on average too, cause they usualy make more than 3 vikings to kill 4+ colossus, which zenio didn't.


Yes, because Spire tech and Corruptors dont cost much more gas than vikings and starport tech, right? Silly Zergs, should just make 20 corruptors with their infinite resources.

lol wow :D
Your post is so dishonest I don't even know where to begin my answer.
He had ressources to make 1000000000000 hydras but he couldn't make more than 3 corruptors because of some terran magic power, HELL YEAH.


I don't even see how that justifies that Corruptors are worse than vikings. You pretty much expect Zerg to make 10000 corruptors vs Protoss, I tell you that it costs tons of gas, you say hes supposed to make cuts on his army then. Do you even know what "balance" means?

Now you're juste making up things. Where did I compared vikings and corruptors ?
I don't expect zerg to make any amount of corruptor vs toss. I just expect from any brained zerg player who is massing hydras and see colossus to stop hydras so he can have enough corruptors.
I don't even know why you're making this issue a balance one where it just is a basic gameplay one.
He sees colossus, he makes 20 more hydras. Doesn't makes sense to me. He started corruptors only when he realised that colossus are omgwtfbbqing his hydras, what a surprise.
Ordained
Profile Joined June 2010
United States779 Posts
September 17 2010 19:10 GMT
#1259
On September 18 2010 03:49 Philosophy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2010 02:32 wxwx wrote:
On September 18 2010 00:50 Philosophy wrote:
On September 18 2010 00:28 wxwx wrote:
i was really shocked when a pretty small colossus army took on like 30 hydras and won.. but you zergs need to calm down, this doesn't mean imbalance. it's just a demonstration of hard counters. I'm sure you've seen a handful of ultras rape infinite stalkers, or a few hydras holding off a 4gate.

If you look at zenio's reaction after that defeat.. I cannot help but feel sorry for him.. but is that the face of someone who lost to imba? If I knew anything, that's the face of someone who knew he threw the game away....


Few Hydras holding off 4 gate? I dunno if you have tested it, but hydras aren't cost effective vs stalkers.....
Zerg simply is supposed to be the reactionary race, yet its the one with the least hard counters.


hydras are very cost effective vs. all gateway units as long as you match his numbers. I don't know what you're doing wrong. Maybe a-moving your army would help?

no race can go with 1 build and win. All 3 races are reactionary. Just because you labelled yourself as the reactionary race doesn't mean you're entitled to anything. Play with what you have and just enjoy the game.


Hydra: 80 HP, 12 damage, 0,83 attack rate, 0 armor
Stalker: 160 HP, 10 damage, 1,44 attack rate, 1 armor

Notice how the stalker has twice the HP + armor while having more than half of the Hydras dps (because the hydras dps gets lowered considerably by that 1 armor). So no, Hydras are NOT cost effective vs Stalkers. The fact that stalkers have 6 range and high speed right away make it even worse.

Zerg units are not meant to be cost effective. What are we, Terran or protoss?

"You are not trying to win, you are trying to be awesome" -Day[9]
dopplex
Profile Joined August 2010
United States36 Posts
September 17 2010 19:10 GMT
#1260
On September 18 2010 02:39 st3roids wrote:
Played a plat look alike terran and still had to control the whole map with 6 expansions to do it .

spare us with the mouse - cat nonsense - itsa big bucks here ,if he could have won in the first 5 mins he could have done it

Why u ever think is something wrong here ;p


no chance vs a great terran ( which is the next game ) imo , good thing theyre rly few of them


I think what Check was doing was actually a great example of that Day9 principle of the better player extending the game because it's a more certain win than trying to press a momentary advantage. "Kill an army? Expand!" Check could have pushed at a number of points where he could *probably* have won - but instead he chose to take more time, tech loads more, and take an easy win with far superior forces.
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