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On September 13 2010 08:38 Hayako wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 07:58 Karliath wrote:On September 13 2010 07:40 DuncanIdaho wrote:In order to deal with the multiple night, Bo1, etc. thing: Lol, I know what. Are you all familiar with Quantum Computing? It's arguably the best answer to the problem of a amximum limit to minimization of computing, thus creating the problem of a maximum processing speed. For instance, you can't practically make something smaller than an atom, well, under today's understanding of physics. So, there is a lower limit to size, thus creating a maximum limit to processing speed. (E.g., we may be only be able to compute things at 1 exabyte per second, and no faster ((kilo,mega,giga, tera,peta,exa,etc.)), and I pulled that number out of my ass, not necessarily the reality of things, just a best guess of mine.) Essentially, rather than taking the time to do several sequential "if this, then that" statements, all possible "if this's" are done simulataneously. Afterwards, a search algorithm picks the appropriate string of if then statements, following them to their logical end, thus very quickly coming to an answer via parallel processing. I think it would be interesting to do every possible combo of "if so-and-so wins that round, and I win over here, we'd play against each other, and since our first competitors are still in a game or were no shows, we'll go ahead and play, and if it so turns out that we eventually do meet each other, the victor has already been determined." Furthermore, this would require blindness to the brackets, otherwise we may be like, "Well I lost to Bob in what would have been the final, so why try in the bracket beneath that which would determine if I would haveeven faced Bob to begin with?" Perhaps with such a Quantum setup, we could also allow for a winner to be determined more along the lines of an algorithm based upon wins and losses, and against whom, and how they do against others, thus determining who gets to go to the, "SC2 Superbowl," so to speak. Idk, it might be fun to have a seasonal setup, over multiple days/weeks, allowing for games to be saved and casted while replayed over the interim days between "game nights". Just some thoughts.  And yes, I am insane. :D You are insane O_O. Want to host one with the style above (so that I can play?  ) that sounds really cool, even though im pretty sure i have no clue what you just said
I'm quoting all of us, by the way, not just the last guy :p
Well, hmm... that might be interesting to organize, and I think I could... However, the problem is that I don't know any casters, nor do I have websites for hosting streams, etc. It would have to be a $0 budget on my part as well, but perhaps flowandebb via hybridflow starcraft might be able to cast and post replays? I was thinking each week, over the course of the season, every player faces off against another player, in a Bo3, that goes towards their overall season ranking, but without being eliminated right off the bat. And maybe the 2 best or 6 best or whatever could go to a "playoffs" or "finals" sort of game to determine the winner.
Post requesting flowandebb to do the above:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=152364¤tpage=3
His(I'm assuming his, or is it her? :p ) site:
http://www.youtube.com/user/HybridFlowStarcraft
Another thing, we would need to consider a prize, if we need one. At this point, it would simply be a "Gj! You won!" sort of thing, but who knows, maybe we could all donate a $1 as an entrance fee to a paypal account, and the winner gets, say, 50% of the pool deposited into their account, 2nd place 25%, 3rd and 4th 12.5% each? Idk... But I'm not willing or able to front all the money.
It could be fun though... 
Edit: Also, any suggestions for what we could call it? Perhaps the name of it could give some credit to HybridFlow's site, if indeed he/she agrees.
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On September 13 2010 22:53 DuncanIdaho wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 08:38 Hayako wrote:On September 13 2010 07:58 Karliath wrote:On September 13 2010 07:40 DuncanIdaho wrote:In order to deal with the multiple night, Bo1, etc. thing: Lol, I know what. Are you all familiar with Quantum Computing? It's arguably the best answer to the problem of a amximum limit to minimization of computing, thus creating the problem of a maximum processing speed. For instance, you can't practically make something smaller than an atom, well, under today's understanding of physics. So, there is a lower limit to size, thus creating a maximum limit to processing speed. (E.g., we may be only be able to compute things at 1 exabyte per second, and no faster ((kilo,mega,giga, tera,peta,exa,etc.)), and I pulled that number out of my ass, not necessarily the reality of things, just a best guess of mine.) Essentially, rather than taking the time to do several sequential "if this, then that" statements, all possible "if this's" are done simulataneously. Afterwards, a search algorithm picks the appropriate string of if then statements, following them to their logical end, thus very quickly coming to an answer via parallel processing. I think it would be interesting to do every possible combo of "if so-and-so wins that round, and I win over here, we'd play against each other, and since our first competitors are still in a game or were no shows, we'll go ahead and play, and if it so turns out that we eventually do meet each other, the victor has already been determined." Furthermore, this would require blindness to the brackets, otherwise we may be like, "Well I lost to Bob in what would have been the final, so why try in the bracket beneath that which would determine if I would haveeven faced Bob to begin with?" Perhaps with such a Quantum setup, we could also allow for a winner to be determined more along the lines of an algorithm based upon wins and losses, and against whom, and how they do against others, thus determining who gets to go to the, "SC2 Superbowl," so to speak. Idk, it might be fun to have a seasonal setup, over multiple days/weeks, allowing for games to be saved and casted while replayed over the interim days between "game nights". Just some thoughts. And yes, I am insane. :D You are insane O_O. Want to host one with the style above (so that I can play? ) that sounds really cool, even though im pretty sure i have no clue what you just said I'm quoting all of us, by the way, not just the last guy :p Well, hmm... that might be interesting to organize, and I think I could... However, the problem is that I don't know any casters, nor do I have websites for hosting streams, etc. It would have to be a $0 budget on my part as well, but perhaps flowandebb via hybridflow starcraft might be able to cast and post replays? I was thinking each week, over the course of the season, every player faces off against another player, in a Bo3, that goes towards their overall season ranking, but without being eliminated right off the bat. And maybe the 2 best or 6 best or whatever could go to a "playoffs" or "finals" sort of game to determine the winner. Post requesting flowandebb to do the above: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=152364¤tpage=3His(I'm assuming his, or is it her? :p ) site: http://www.youtube.com/user/HybridFlowStarcraftAnother thing, we would need to consider a prize, if we need one. At this point, it would simply be a "Gj! You won!" sort of thing, but who knows, maybe we could all donate a $1 as an entrance fee to a paypal account, and the winner gets, say, 50% of the pool deposited into their account, 2nd place 25%, 3rd and 4th 12.5% each? Idk... But I'm not willing or able to front all the money. It could be fun though... Edit: Also, any suggestions for what we could call it? Perhaps the name of it could give some credit to HybridFlow's site, if indeed he/she agrees.
I really like this idea!
like get people we can trust to show up and have a season followed by a play offs. I would be completely up for this and willing to add to the prize pool
good thinking duncan!
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I have $9.90 left in the my "SC paypal," which I guess I could contribute to this tournament. I don't want to pay $9 if everyone else is paying $1 each though . It was meant to be for the next RISING Cup anyways, but to be honest, I don't think the RISING Cup needs a prize...
But yeah, I would definitely love to play in this league haha. I'd host it too, but I have no idea how to do so. Gl!
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Okay, so I've been fleshing out some ideas:
Say we have 30 players. Well, we make 2 divisions, 15 players each, and everyone plays 1 round (Bo1, Bo3?) against each player in their division, for a total of 14 rounds played per player (assuming no one drops out for whatever reason, but in that case perhaps we can do "byes", or maybe recalibrate the game lineup), thus making for a 14week season.
Now, at the end of the season, the top 8 players from each division go into the playoffs, but first ranked 1 to 8, based on points from the season, determined by 3points for winning a round, 1 point for a tie, 0 for a loss. Ties are probably too hard to come by in reality, but who knows, maybe some game will have all things mined out, and no units, not even workers to kill off the other base...
So, number of points determines seating in the playoffs. For tie-breakers, I'm open to suggestions, maybe we can look at number of games won per round. Or, maybe in a 2-way tie, say bob and jim both won 10 rounds for 30 points, but in the league game of bob vs jim, bob won, so bob gets the higher seat that bob and jim are tied for (say they're tied for 3rd and 4th, bob gets 3rd, jim 4th). In a 3-way tie, say, bob beat jim, jim beat sally, but sally beat bob, idk what to do with that yet... A suggestion was to look at the number of points they have on their ladder in the SC2 system? (Since I may be 5th on my gold ladder, but someone else may be 2nd, yet due to their ladder being easier, they only have 700 points while I have 750 in mine, even though i'm 5th in my ladder...)
Anywho, once seating is determined, the playoffs will be set as the following, and so as to reward people who did better in the season games, they'll have an easier path to the finals, to discourage "good enough to get into the playoffs" as the only season goal (notice #1 plays #8, 2 plays 7, etc, and notice also 1 and 2 are far enough apart that they wont face each other until their division finals, assuming no upsets):
Division A.............................................................................................................Division B
#1--|.........................................................................................................................|--#1
......|------|........................................................................................................|------ |
#8--|.......|........................................................................................................|........|--#8
..............|-----|.........................................................................................|------|
#4--|.......|......|..........................................................................................|......|........|--#4
......|------|......|..........................................................................................|......|------|
#5--|..............|-------------------------------------..............................................|...............|--#5
.....................|............................................---------------------------------------|
#3--|..............|..........................................................................................|...............|--#3
......|------|......|..........................................................................................|......|------ |
#6--|.......|......|..........................................................................................|......|........|--#6
..............|------..........................................................................................|-----|
#2--|.......|........................................................................................................|........|--#2
......|------|........................................................................................................|------|
#7--|.........................................................................................................................|--#7
(phew, all those dots, dashes, and "such that" symbols were tough. )
Now, I haven't decided yet, but maybe the season games can be Bo1, Bo3, idk, and for the playoffs, bo1 or bo3, again, no decision made yet. Not sure if we need an epic bo5 final game though :p Also, a non-SC2 player friendwho gave me this bracket setup from NCAA I think it was (I'm not a sports guy like he is), suggested calling the divisions, Division Geek, and Division Nerd, rather than A and B. lmao
Furthermore, I'd like the playoffs and finals to be over several days, such that we can all get our sleep.
And finally, I'm hoping to play in this, as well, and thus my setting it up before hand so as not to cause any suspisions of me stacking odds in my favor. For instance, in Karliath's Rising Cup, had he played, in theory he could have given himself lots of bronze players at first, thus stacking the odds. In my setup, all is predetermined based on the outcome of season games, where we all play each other in our divisions. Given, I could make all the gold go over to the other division and be the only gold in my division, but I'll do it randomly, I promise. And one last thing, I'm still waiting on a response from flowandebbto cast replays during the week as they're uploaded.
And I almost forgot, there was talk of prize money. Maybe all 30 players out a buck into a paypal account, for a pool of $30 US. Then, the 1st place gets 50%, $15, then 2nd 25% 7.50, and 3rd and 4th 12.75% each, $3.75. Idk, it's whatever, not that I need a prize to play, but some might...
Any suggestions?
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Do you think we can get 30 dedicated players to play? Personally, I am very interested, but I can only play at night and stuff, with parents and ahh asfdih;asf. Just saying, I might DC at random moments.
Also, the brackets seem pretty American to me, if you'll excuse me
My main gripe with it is that you only get to play against half the players.
What if we just adopt the pro-league method, or something similar to it?
You play against every opponent twice.
The person in first place is seeded into the final,
the person in second place is seeded into the semi-final,
and then we have a few options:
A) Third place is seeded into the quarter final, fourth and fifth play for a quarter final spot.
B) Third, Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth round robin for semi-final spot, or two quarter-final spots.
C) Third and Fourth are seeded into the quarter finals.
.......________(WIN)________...............
....(1st)........................_____|____.......
...............................(2nd).......___|___..
...........................................(?)........(?)
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Actually, the method I listed above would take way too long. It would be much easier with 15 players. That said, the prize pool goes down, and it cancels my initial point of playing against more people.
Idk then
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On September 14 2010 08:08 Karliath wrote:Do you think we can get 30 dedicated players to play? Personally, I am very interested, but I can only play at night and stuff, with parents and ahh asfdih;asf. Just saying, I might DC at random moments. Also, the brackets seem pretty American to me, if you'll excuse me My main gripe with it is that you only get to play against half the players. What if we just adopt the pro-league method, or something similar to it? You play against every opponent twice. The person in first place is seeded into the final, the person in second place is seeded into the semi-final, and then we have a few options: A) Third place is seeded into the quarter final, fourth and fifth play for a quarter final spot. B) Third, Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth round robin for semi-final spot, or two quarter-final spots. C) Third and Fourth are seeded into the quarter finals. .......________(WIN)________............... ....(1st)........................_____|____....... ...............................(2nd).......___|___.. ...........................................(?)........(?)
Though i do agree with you that its going to be hard to find 30 dedicated players for this. The feeling i got toward this is that this would almost be like a league, with its own regular season and playoffs. In which case i like the idea of the season being a long one. For example every monday Duncan posts the oppenets for the week, you have the entire week to contact your oppenet, play your matches and send replays and scores to duncan. This way players can we really start to get to know each other play styles, in hope more stratgey can be used. "im going to use this build order to counter RiveRs favourite build order" These are just some of my thoughts, definatly VERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRY interested in this
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On September 14 2010 08:25 Hayako wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 08:08 Karliath wrote:Do you think we can get 30 dedicated players to play? Personally, I am very interested, but I can only play at night and stuff, with parents and ahh asfdih;asf. Just saying, I might DC at random moments. Also, the brackets seem pretty American to me, if you'll excuse me My main gripe with it is that you only get to play against half the players. What if we just adopt the pro-league method, or something similar to it? You play against every opponent twice. The person in first place is seeded into the final, the person in second place is seeded into the semi-final, and then we have a few options: A) Third place is seeded into the quarter final, fourth and fifth play for a quarter final spot. B) Third, Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth round robin for semi-final spot, or two quarter-final spots. C) Third and Fourth are seeded into the quarter finals. .......________(WIN)________............... ....(1st)........................_____|____....... ...............................(2nd).......___|___.. ...........................................(?)........(?) Though i do agree with you that its going to be hard to find 30 dedicated players for this. The feeling i got toward this is that this would almost be like a league, with its own regular season and playoffs. In which case i like the idea of the season being a long one. For example every monday Duncan posts the oppenets for the week, you have the entire week to contact your oppenet, play your matches and send replays and scores to duncan. This way players can we really start to get to know each other play styles, in hope more stratgey can be used. "im going to use this build order to counter RiveRs favourite build order" These are just some of my thoughts, definatly VERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRY interested in this
tbh I think >15 is already too much. I would like the league to be "tight," so that if there's any need to reschedule, discuss about things, etc, there won't be people out there totally lost and clueless as to what's going on. Do you know what I mean? Even as low as ten would work out just fine; well, with my brackets anyways. There would be 5 games a week, with each player getting 18 total games, and weeks of play, before the playoffs.
Edit: Also, the schedule for all the weeks should be randomized and posted by the beginning of the tournament. That's how it works for every other sport, right?
One big concern I have is that I want to know the person I am playing against, you know what I mean? I don't want a huge league where I may get cheesed by an unknown, or get beaten by just weird weird stuff. Having a smaller player pool would help this. Or, we could have group practice sessions. This may seem counter-productive for those that want to win, but if everyone does it, it should be fair.
I mean think about it. Would you rather be rushed by a guy on ladder you have no idea who it is, or would you rather get rushed in a controlled setting where you know your opponent? I hope that makes sense...
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I think cutting it down in size might be a wise idea. To 20 perhaps? 15? I'd probably be able to bring in some of my friends, like lJJl, or others.
Anyway, as long as I can still participate in the league, hybrid and I would definitely love casting. Any ideas for names?
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Karliath
Flowandebb
Hybrid
Hayako
IJJI (omg I forgot if they were Ls or Is again...)
DuncanIdaho
good start.
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I just wanted to say any tournament you are planning on doing again I would love to be apart of again.
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Will there be 3d cup ? and if so - when are you planing it ?
If i would be still at gold , would love to be a part of .
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I can't guarantee lJJl (L's by the way). I'll ask him though. He might be a bit busy with Reach though...
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Hey i have a friend who would like to be apart of it, and is some one we can reply on. His name is Rtomas just to put him in
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Hey guys, i am a friend of Hayako;s he told me about the tournament. i would like to be in it, you can rely on me being there and i wont flake out! let me know
B.net Rtomas.763
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Should we make a new thread?
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On September 14 2010 09:48 flowandebb wrote:
Should we make a new thread?
yea probably should, need the offical name first and will leave that up to duncan.
by the way flow did you happen to see that pm i sent you? i have an epic game between me and duncan if you wanted to cast it for your youtube channel
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On September 14 2010 09:58 Hayako wrote:yea probably should, need the offical name first and will leave that up to duncan. by the way flow did you happen to see that pm i sent you? i have an epic game between me and duncan if you wanted to cast it for your youtube channel
No!!! Don't watch it! It was an imposter Duncan who lost to Hayako! It wasn't me!! lol jk go ahead... :p
Yeah, lets agree on a name, and I'll start a new thread, and then post a link to it in a reply to this thread. Any suggestions?
Maybe the Rising League? Idk...
And if someone could make a super awesome banner, they'll get props.
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On September 14 2010 09:02 Sevryn wrote:
i would go again
Great
On September 14 2010 09:12 Fluffy1 wrote:
I just wanted to say any tournament you are planning on doing again I would love to be apart of again.
The next RISING Cup will be in 2-4 weeks, assuming that I don't get bogged down by this new league stuff. If you want to join the league, stay tuned, and be prepared to play matches once a week, as well as group practice games.
On September 14 2010 09:18 razamanaz wrote:
Will there be 3d cup ? and if so - when are you planing it ?
If i would be still at gold , would love to be a part of .
2-4 weeks.
On September 14 2010 09:58 Hayako wrote:yea probably should, need the offical name first and will leave that up to duncan. by the way flow did you happen to see that pm i sent you? i have an epic game between me and duncan if you wanted to cast it for your youtube channel
Unless you have all the details ready, I highly advise against making the official thread. It's frowned upon. I made a blog thread "Gold League Tournament?" and then a tournament thread "Gold League Tournament!" before everything was set up for me to make "[Gold] RISING Cup #1." Just some advice. Perhaps start with a blog post too?
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EPT
