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On April 04 2010 21:33 heaven- wrote:
lucifron pretty much dominated 2008 both korean and european tournaments for warcraft 3. Taking down one of the best players of all time like Moon, Lyn etc. In more than one occasion. If you were to drop Lucifron in asia as you said, I would say he'd be top 5, no doubt. And not with cheese but with solid play.
In any case as of now hes not taking it seriously and is focused on studies.
The fact that Lucifron "dominated" in 2008 (though if I recall correctly, WCG 2008 was won by Grubby, Moon, and Happy) is no proof that he will become Top 5 in Asia. Projecting past success to future success is never that simple, esp. over a game switch, or else Boxer would still be the best player of every RTS game in the world.
Whether the level of play is truly higher in Asia, I do not know, but I do know that none of the three contenders in question (Americans, Asians, Europeans)
are intrinsically superior in RTS games. Rather, it has to do with the level and method of practice, training, etc. Korea is not dominant in SC because Koreans are born SC geniuses. It is dominant because Korea has training regimens and recruitment programs available virtually nowhere else. Well, that and people who were really passionate about the game and being the best in it, to begin with (ie Boxer).
That, if anything, is what would allow Asia to pull ahead, if it does, in SC 2.
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Also, I feel somewhat compelled to defend Idra here: he's simply stating an opinion about the current state of the game. You might not agree with his definition of cheese or his assessment of the scene, but that's no reason to call for a ban. I've seen far more inflammatory comments in the Korean > foreigner scene thread in BW, on both sides.
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On April 05 2010 14:30 StarcraftMaster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2010 14:27 IdrA wrote:
lol, you say its only because of player pool and then say that americans focus on having fun and that asians work hard. theres a reason the mass practicers are odd balls amongst foreigners and not amongst koreans/chinese. their culture promotes a better work ethic than westerners, which means that yes, they are better at video games, and anything else that can benefit from massive amounts of practice. Having fun is more important then worth ethic. Without the passion there is no fuel for the fire. And there is mass gamers in each. But there more common in asia cause of the player pool. More players playing Around them as well.. Its linked with there enviorment. which is probably fueling the competition more for them... just speculation tho.
Passion is very important but you have to understand something - you don't get the level of mechanics that is present in Korean SC by playing ICCUP a few hours everyday. That extra edge possessed by people like Flash, Jaedong, and - in the old days - July, Boxer, etc., which translates to the audience's "omg" "wow" and "holy ****" during tournament casts, can only be gained by practice, because no one is born with SC mechanics. In this, Idra is right. You can become very good by just playing casually on Battle.net, but you can't reach the top by sacrificing nothing when others are clearly making the sacrifice.
At least, I've yet to see it happen.
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On April 05 2010 16:37 Azarkon wrote:
Also, I feel somewhat compelled to defend Idra here: he's simply stating an opinion about the current state of the game. You might not agree with his definition of cheese or his assessment of the scene, but that's no reason to call for a ban. I've seen far more inflammatory comments in the Korean > foreigner scene thread in BW, on both sides.
Have you seen Team America World Police? I believe you fall under the "P" category.
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On April 05 2010 16:47 Attris wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2010 16:37 Azarkon wrote:
Also, I feel somewhat compelled to defend Idra here: he's simply stating an opinion about the current state of the game. You might not agree with his definition of cheese or his assessment of the scene, but that's no reason to call for a ban. I've seen far more inflammatory comments in the Korean > foreigner scene thread in BW, on both sides. Have you seen Team America World Police? I believe you fall under the "P" category.
No idea what you're talking about. Maybe that's for the best?
But there's one good thing about all the flaming, we might get to see a Smuft vs. Idra deathmatch :D
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Would love to see them fight, but for real tho. Some people do need a hit to the jaw to bring them to reality. imo. A nice show match is fun to watch as well.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
SMUFT COMMON?!?!?
Damn it I want this
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On April 05 2010 15:59 IdrA wrote:
500$ bo5 smuft?
I haven't played a serious game since the reset so $500 is not really enough motivation to practice for a real match.
I raise to $5000 for a bo5 in 7 days.
We'd also have to come up with some terms to ensure the integrity of the match.
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come on smuft lets see this!!! :D
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On April 05 2010 17:13 Lz wrote:
come on smuft lets see this!!! :D
Ball is in Idra's court now ;x
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
smuft tbh raising to a sum he'd never accept is insanely cowardice 
Just say you dodge and move on man. MAYBE raise to like 750$ or 1k but 5k is insane.
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
Will Idra accept a bet amount that is a year's base salary for him? The suspense is killing me, I dunno about you guys.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On April 05 2010 17:23 {88}iNcontroL wrote:smuft tbh raising to a sum he'd never accept is insanely cowardice Just say you dodge and move on man. MAYBE raise to like 750$ or 1k but 5k is insane.
I agree. If $500 isn't enough, or even something like 1k, to make practice for a game i'm sure you already love worthwhile, then it seems to me you just don't want to play.
Also, betting 5k$ on a bo7 (or a single set of matches over a couple of hours of time) on any game is pretty absurd in general imo...
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not his fault idra is weak tight
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Remember the old days? When insulting one's honor was a duel to the death? :D
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On April 05 2010 17:23 {88}iNcontroL wrote:smuft tbh raising to a sum he'd never accept is insanely cowardice Just say you dodge and move on man. MAYBE raise to like 750$ or 1k but 5k is insane.
I have to agree
you cant talk about a 75% win rate vs idra then turn down what would be a "free" $500 due to lack of practice.
Smells a little like dodge....just saying.
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On April 05 2010 17:25 motbob wrote:Will Idra accept a bet amount that is a year's base salary for him? The suspense is killing me, I dunno about you guys. + Show Spoiler +
silly ;/
500$ is like gregs life savings should be plenty enough to make it a showmatch!!
come on smuft !! 
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On April 05 2010 09:59 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2010 04:40 _rdm_ wrote:On April 05 2010 03:45 Xeris wrote:On April 05 2010 03:39 _rdm_ wrote:
I think its hard to accept but at the moment usa is behind the rest of the servers. Idra could have said it more tactfully but from my experience his observations hold a lot of truth. not sure how you can make that assumption when hardly any US players are playing with EU people... even Artosis himself admitted that he hasn't actually played the Euros yet. I have played with both parties and I have also watched many recs from both parties, I am simply saying that I agree with the statement Idra has made, not with the approach he took to making it though. that makes absolutely no fucking sense. you agree that americans are bad europeans are cheesy and asians are better, and you think its fine to make that opinion public, but its not ok to say it bluntly? how fucking stupid is that.
The problem with saying things to bluntly is that it comes off as an emotional rant. It discredits your thoughts actually. If you were to pose the idea by citing your experience on all 3 servers and just talk about the facts people might be more apt to believing you.
You really do have a lot of credibility in making the comments you do. You have the most games out of anyone on TL probably and have played on all the servers. Why would you throw that credibility away and go with the angry emotional post. They seems fucking stupid to me.
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Vatican City State1872 Posts
lol if only you guys knew how much money was being thrown around betting on these games
$500 was probably the absolute minimum that smuft bet on any of these games
tbh though idra being willing to throw out $500 and smuft raising to an amount that idra cant ever call is really gay though
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On April 05 2010 17:11 Smuft wrote:I haven't played a serious game since the reset so $500 is not really enough motivation to practice for a real match. I raise to $5000 for a bo5 in 7 days. We'd also have to come up with some terms to ensure the integrity of the match.
you're dodging, you know full well im not going to throw that much money around and you wouldnt be playing for the money anyway. 500$ for a bo5.
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EPT
