i just wanted to know where i can find videos of people beating the ai in lotv with this version of sc2 (december 2016)
it seems like all the people and their mother can do it easily, but i found no videos of it anywhere. the videos on youtube are like 5 years old, and i believe the ai was pretty dumb back then. i found a video of a zerg beating the ai, but only with mutas in the end, since the ai doesnt really seem to adapt to flying units or something, .. i think that's kinda cheating.
my experience: 1v1 - terran vs ai. very hard protoss
i hold the first wave of agression easily with mass marines. and from there on i lose every fight when i attack him with stuff and in the end i can't even touch him aymore.
so..... please post videos and links to videos of you beating the ai on very hard or elite, without any abusable "tricks".
my computer isnt strong enough to record it in viewable quality but you could just open with 2 barracks and 2 techlabs, make marauders and bunkers at your ramp and repair with scvs.
Its all beatable. Hell when i started 6 years ago all I did was play vs AI
@cereal ok, at 7:15 you fight him on his ramp, that's why you win that fight right? i guess my mistake is i wait too long for the second attack and then fight more stuff in the open.
maybe strategy in this case is to abuse the dumbness. i just feel like when i know a human would act differently to simple problems (like blocked up units), its cheating.
hmm this isn't so much about me, i just wanted to see it beat in this version (not 5 years ago)
this thread is more like a collection of videos of guys beating the AI on very hard, hopefully without abusing the ai.
if i compare my gameplay to cereals i see that i can't do all the fancy parts, but i don't think that's whats bringing him the win. its not the fast expo, its not the sneaky widow mines... it's ramp abuse in the end.
just my two cents, don't wanna offend or challenge
keep 'em coming! looking forward to them, i'm learning lots of stuff!
btw: i just watched my awful replays again, and at one point he has 6 adepts, 6 stalkers and 7 archons. what's the counter to that? i just had a bunch of marines and few marauders, and got slaughtered :D
and..... is it more about stopping the ai of becoming too powerful, can't it be beaten after a certain time period without abuse?
Why are you so worried about beating a very hard AI...like what is that going to teach you about multiplayer that playing versus a person will not? Unless you are specifically practicing and grinding out builds (in that case playing versus a very easy AI is definitely better) which is undoubtedly better practice for when you do actually begin playing on ladder.
i have the starter edition and been playing only for a couple of days :D this isn't a thread about me, its showcasing people beating the ai. seeing that is quite inspirational to me
On December 19 2016 11:14 hans80 wrote: i have the starter edition and been playing only for a couple of days :D this isn't a thread about me, its showcasing people beating the ai. seeing that is quite inspirational to me
Yeah I'm just saying if your goal is getting good at the game watching replays of people beating AI's isn't really doing much. You could be studying some professional replays and writing down the build orders they use then grinding that build.
You talk about inspiring...want to see something actually inspiring? Go find INnoVation on Twitch and watch his stream. You'll be amazed at what the best players in the world do and will learn way more.
I'm not sure what your goals are or whatever...this is just some perspective on what will make you improve WAY faster.
On December 19 2016 06:42 hans80 wrote: replays would be ok aswell.
@cereal ok, at 7:15 you fight him on his ramp, that's why you win that fight right? i guess my mistake is i wait too long for the second attack and then fight more stuff in the open.
maybe strategy in this case is to abuse the dumbness. i just feel like when i know a human would act differently to simple problems (like blocked up units), its cheating.
On December 19 2016 08:41 hans80 wrote: hmm this isn't so much about me, i just wanted to see it beat in this version (not 5 years ago)
this thread is more like a collection of videos of guys beating the AI on very hard, hopefully without abusing the ai.
if i compare my gameplay to cereals i see that i can't do all the fancy parts, but i don't think that's whats bringing him the win. its not the fast expo, its not the sneaky widow mines... it's ramp abuse in the end.
just my two cents, don't wanna offend or challenge
keep 'em coming! looking forward to them, i'm learning lots of stuff!
btw: i just watched my awful replays again, and at one point he has 6 adepts, 6 stalkers and 7 archons. what's the counter to that? i just had a bunch of marines and few marauders, and got slaughtered :D
and..... is it more about stopping the ai of becoming too powerful, can't it be beaten after a certain time period without abuse?
thanks for your input!
If you compare your gameplay to Cereals, you can see that you don"t have to do the fancy parts. And no, it was not the ramp what made him win the game. I am sorry to disappoint you. All that matters if you really wanna win vs the AI is building workers, building structures and building units. All of this constantly. Of course the AI isn"t acting like a human opponent. Stating how abusiv a certain situation is, is not very clever of you. If you really want to experience a realistic gameplay you can play vs other player, e.g in custom games. Otherwise take every advantage you can get vs the AI. If you beat the harder AI try the next level. But in the end it will all come down to how good you can do what I mentioned earlier: Worker, structures and units. Nothing else. There is almost no strategic depth in this situation.
Keep in mind that on very hard you don't need to cheat or abuse anything in order to win. Players on ladder will play far better than very hard AI just at silver/gold level, if not earlier.
Things may change if we talk about brutal AI. I don't know how it is now, but in the past Brutal AI actually used to cheat, by getting double mineral income, and maybe even having map hack (always seeing all your units). The added mineral income actually forced you to kill or cripple him fast, otherwise you just could not win in the end. This is where talking about abusing the AI may make sense, to overweight his cheating (actually, by playing well you did not even need that), otherwise on Very Hard or below, you may of course abuse AI dumbness, but don't think that's needed AT ALL to win by a landslide just by playing well.
In the end: don't look for abusive ways to win, and don't think they are needed at all. It's fine if you want to warm up your mechanics against AI, but all you need to learn is:
1) build workers all the time (never stop, ever, until 3 bases are full, but you will probably win earlier than this)
2) never get supply blocked. Remember to build supply depots in time. Call down them if needed, but try to use CC's energy just for mules, and use mules AS SOON as you have enough energy
3) never let your mineral/gas grow up too much. Let's say they should never go above 200 in early game, and never above 500 in mid game. You do this by creating new buildings and new units of course, but in particular: - never queue more than a unit in production on the same building (it "cheats" the above rule, as you aren't actually speding those resources NOW, but only later when the building has finished producing the previous unit) - if you are stockpiling resources and you can't build new units (or research upgrades) because all production buildings are already training something, that means you need more production/upgrade buildings, so use resources to build these. If you later see you can't spend your resources on all the new buildings at the same time, that means you built too many ..you should have built at least a single new base with that minerals (see next point) - As soon as you feel safe, and around every 5 minutes, build a new base (that may mean saving minerals by not building anything for a bit). That will help you improving your income (otherwise it even decreases, as the base is mined out). Remember that a bit after that, you'll also need to create new production buildings, to avoid stockpiling resources because of the increasing income. Also remember that once the new base is ready, you may need to move some SCV from your previous one(s): the rule is that if the number over the CC is red, every SCV in excess must be moved elsewhere. Normally, that means 2 SCV for each crystal, but that number decreases as the base is mined out. Note that you STILL need to keep building SCVs even if they go in the red number, because soon you will transfer them into a new base and get an IMMEDIATE income increase
..I went into some more detail, but to sum it up: build workers, don't get supply blocked, don't stockpile resources. As longs as you do this, you will beat even brutal, even if you build marines only (maybe with some medivacs and upgrades..). And you will even reach gold quite easily. No need to look for cheating or abusing maneuvers .
P.S. You'll notice that using control groups on your buildings will help you A LOT in doing the above, as you won't need to move your screen to the buildings in order to command them to produce new units. Once you have mastered this, and you can actually follow the above rules well, then you can look around for build orders and suggested unit compositions or unit counters. You could do that before, and it would surely help you somehow, but it's much better to train things one at a time, and this one here is the most important BY FAR. An horde of upgraded marines with some medivacs will win even against Colossi or Archons, as long as you are producing much more than your opponent.
@cereal maybe i mean fighting in open areas in the long run i'm sure you beat the ai in that game, but i still think you win that particular fight, cause his archon blocks all his units from attacking. and then the next one, and so on... i don't mean you cheat, it's just the stupid ai on a mechanical level, not strategical. and if i win when that happens the win doesn't feel right to me, cause a human would probably realise only one unit can attack and move the whole army back for a better fighting position.
still appreciate the vids/replays
i think its because i come from a warcraft3 background that i think this way. armies fighting in open positions, the better army comp/micro win you the game. i'm realising that my expectations on the ai behaviour are too high.
On December 20 2016 01:20 hans80 wrote: wow that's a lot of information, thanks!
@cereal maybe i mean fighting in open areas in the long run i'm sure you beat the ai in that game, but i still think you win that particular fight, cause his archon blocks all his units from attacking. and then the next one, and so on... i don't mean you cheat, it's just the stupid ai on a mechanical level, not strategical. and if i win when that happens the win doesn't feel right to me, cause a human would probably realise only one unit can attack and move the whole army back for a better fighting position.
still appreciate the vids/replays
i think its because i come from a warcraft3 background that i think this way. armies fighting in open positions, the better army comp/micro win you the game. i'm realising that my expectations on the ai behaviour are too high.
You're pretty much never going to fight the AI in the open because the AI falls apart after it attacks once. It'll just sit there in its base for the rest of the game.
I can record a Terran vs Protoss video for you on any of the above difficulties where I don't harass and let the AI build up and then fight when army is maxed in middle.
Here you go - I tried to only play macro - did not do drops or harass, and did not abuse terrain. Using current ladder maps. Games were played at ~100 score screen APM and lots of supply blocks, so nothing fancy here.
TvP (human terran vs protoss AI) set to Elite, AI strategy set to 'FULL RUSH' (built marines and medivacs only)
TvP (human terran vs protoss AI) set to Elite, AI strategy set to 'any build' (built MMM mine and liberator)
I'll record a video against Insane AI after for you as well.
Here's one for you vs zerg on Elite. I was playing vs random and got a zerg in this game. I sometimes do games like this just to practice a build order or warm up.
i think its because i come from a warcraft3 background that i think this way. armies fighting in open positions, the better army comp/micro win you the game. i'm realising that my expectations on the ai behaviour are too high.
Yeah starcraft 2 is a LOT different from war3 pal. I see where you're coming from but you're at the beginning of quite a journey getting used to sc2.
In short, compared to war3 this game is vastly more about economy development and having a bigger army rather than microing your army better. It is not so uncommon to win battles with minimal micro required by just creating a situation where you have a bigger/better army.
Players on ladder will play far better than very hard AI just at silver/gold level, if not earlier.
From my experience working my way from Bronze to Plat, Elite AI is high silver/low gold, but has different strengths and weaknesses than most players. For example, it has worse micro and build orders, but it has much better macro and reaction times.
Players on ladder will play far better than very hard AI just at silver/gold level, if not earlier.
From my experience working my way from Bronze to Plat, Elite AI is high silver/low gold, but has different strengths and weaknesses than most players. For example, it has worse micro and build orders, but it has much better macro and reaction times.
I would find a real player more threatening anyway: a bronze player may be overall worse than AI, but the AI will never cheese you. It will never cannon rush or proxy oracle, and will not even drop marines in the mineral line. As long as you defend the shortest road to your base, you are safe, while against a real player even if worse overall you always must be wary of what he's actually doing.
EPT
..you should have built at least a single new base with that minerals (see next point)
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