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hey guys, for some reason i couldn't post of SC2 forums so i had to post this here, i have HOTS expansion and iv been playing 1v1 non stop, iv worked my way all the way from bronze to the top of gold but i just cant seem to get into platinum. I know i just have to keep winning, and the new season just started so i figured id get a head start cause all the points are so low from rank to rank. anyways, i was on the biggest winning steak, 8 wins in a row, stopping regular play, rushes, 6 pools, and even stumped a handful of cheeses, anyways, long story short, on my ninth game, i came across another protoss (i main toss) who got me with the most stupidest cheese i have ever seen. Im totally ok with oralce or a cannon rush, but this really pissed me off, and i always happen to get the craziest cheeses ever after a long win streak.
About the game, this game at the very beginning he sent 3 probes to harass me, he didnt do much maybe 3 prob kills, delayed my gateway, so i go scout him after and it looks like he just has 1 gate way building, so i open a quick robo and get some stalkers and head towards his base i get there and theres a bunch of cannons that i fight thur, he stalls with a MSC, i think i have the game in the bag, but i didnt feel safe so i sent a prob to every base on the map, and i find a ninja expand double stargate, before i know it theres 3 oracles and 4 voids in my base.... i was so appalled i ran to his ninja and killed it, then i had to run my probes across the map to try and base race, the oracles were able to kill all my probes the voids killed all pylons, my army comes back to my base and i try to resume prob production and keep my stalkers by my mineral line... i have 50 minerals left i make a probe and the oracle flys in kills it right before dying itself. i was so pissed and i always get some crazy super well practiced cheese right as im getting close to be promoted...
I want to know how to prevent this type of thing from happening, this really made me mad i had to log and go do some yard work, i feel as if not matter what i did, i would have never have scouted that ninja sooner, it was the last base my probe checked after i had to muscle thur his cannons... what makes me more mad is that this guys a top platinum and this win could have promoted me. do the cheeses get worse the higher you ranked up? iv never had this much cheese on a daily bases in silver/bronze to be honest. ever since i got to gold iv tried to be oh soo cautious of the cheese cause every other match it some sort of cheese, what could i have down better? how was i supposed to know he ninja expanded? Again, im not against cheese, just this stupid ninja mass voids oracle that just killed my win streak and my will to play for a little bit. how do you all deal with a cheese loss? i really appreciate the responses thank you for your time.
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Welcome, and thank God you didn't post this on the official forums, because TL gives better advice.
Please post a replay so we can help you.
And yes, the cheese gets finer the higher you get on ladder and that isn't a bad thing. Cheese is part of the game, and it can be countered.
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how do i post a replay on to here?
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Upload the replay to a sit like ggtracker.com and link the replay that way.
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On June 21 2016 07:47 cellerx wrote:
, this game at the very beginning he sent 3 probes to harass me, he didnt do much maybe 3 prob kills, delayed my gateway,.
To me that sounds like quite a bit of damage. You shouldn't ever lose a probe like that.
That makes me think that maybe because of this "super refined cheese" (which it of course isn't otherwise your opponent would be in much higher league) you are ignoring your own mistakes and just blaming the cheese for your loss.
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Italy12246 Posts
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Alluton wrote:
you are ignoring your own mistakes and just blaming X for your loss.
This a thousand times.
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In higher leagues, harass openings usually come earlier and with more units than lower league "cheeses". How many times when I played a lower league player he accused me of doing a "mass <insert_random_unit> all-in" when all I did was a very standard macro build, but just couldn't resist sending a round of units upon scouting a big hole in his sim city/early defense timings with my first drone. This is just normal play.
Fact is, a higher league player will never loose to a gold leaguer's (or lower) cheese, and even it's unscouted (most of the time), which basically means that the "cheese" in itself isn't the issue. You have to polish your early game to even have a chance to survive the early game in higher level play, and I strongly suggest to strat with this. Find a solid BO and practice your mechanics doing it perfectly, not too much fancy stuff or "macro play" unless your first minutes in the game are tight enough. Like, do not lose probes to probes.
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I'm zerg and I later have overlords to scout, but in the early minutes I use a few zerglings to scout.
I think the following trick can be very useful for you as well.
With the patrol command, you can set multiple waypoints (up to 8). So with 1 or 2 probes or zealots, you can set very long patrol routes through possible expansion spots. It is very easy to setup using the minimap. You select a zealot, attack + left click on the first expansion position. Then, holding shift, you press patrol and left click a few expansion positions as waypoints. Then you release shift and let the zealot do its job. You can even define a closed path by patrol + clicking the first waypoint (the unit will go around the waypoints in a loop), which is more convenient sometimes. With one or two zealots you can watch all the bases, this will keep you from suffering from ninja expos.
Hope this helps a bit.
Good luck with your games.
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On June 21 2016 07:47 cellerx wrote:
hey guys, for some reason i couldn't post of SC2 forums so i had to post this here, i have HOTS expansion and iv been playing 1v1 non stop, iv worked my way all the way from bronze to the top of gold but i just cant seem to get into platinum. I know i just have to keep winning, and the new season just started so i figured id get a head start cause all the points are so low from rank to rank. anyways, i was on the biggest winning steak, 8 wins in a row, stopping regular play, rushes, 6 pools, and even stumped a handful of cheeses, anyways, long story short, on my ninth game, i came across another protoss (i main toss) who got me with the most stupidest cheese i have ever seen. Im totally ok with oralce or a cannon rush, but this really pissed me off, and i always happen to get the craziest cheeses ever after a long win streak.
About the game, this game at the very beginning he sent 3 probes to harass me, he didnt do much maybe 3 prob kills, delayed my gateway, so i go scout him after and it looks like he just has 1 gate way building, so i open a quick robo and get some stalkers and head towards his base i get there and theres a bunch of cannons that i fight thur, he stalls with a MSC, i think i have the game in the bag, but i didnt feel safe so i sent a prob to every base on the map, and i find a ninja expand double stargate, before i know it theres 3 oracles and 4 voids in my base.... i was so appalled i ran to his ninja and killed it, then i had to run my probes across the map to try and base race, the oracles were able to kill all my probes the voids killed all pylons, my army comes back to my base and i try to resume prob production and keep my stalkers by my mineral line... i have 50 minerals left i make a probe and the oracle flys in kills it right before dying itself. i was so pissed and i always get some crazy super well practiced cheese right as im getting close to be promoted...
I want to know how to prevent this type of thing from happening, this really made me mad i had to log and go do some yard work, i feel as if not matter what i did, i would have never have scouted that ninja sooner, it was the last base my probe checked after i had to muscle thur his cannons... what makes me more mad is that this guys a top platinum and this win could have promoted me. do the cheeses get worse the higher you ranked up? iv never had this much cheese on a daily bases in silver/bronze to be honest. ever since i got to gold iv tried to be oh soo cautious of the cheese cause every other match it some sort of cheese, what could i have down better? how was i supposed to know he ninja expanded? Again, im not against cheese, just this stupid ninja mass voids oracle that just killed my win streak and my will to play for a little bit. how do you all deal with a cheese loss? i really appreciate the responses thank you for your time.
When I ladder, I cheese all the time. I've recently gotten into a groove where when I play someone new , and somehow play them again or if they ask for re I'll do a different build order, but just set myself up for a good scouting routine. They can't cheese you, if you know what they are doing
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theres a bunch of cannons that i fight thur, he stalls with a MSC, i think i have the game in the bag, but i didnt feel safe so i sent a prob to every base on the map, and i find a ninja expand double stargate,
Playing a super weird strategy like that isn't cheese, it's just meant to use your expectations against you. While the hidden base was certainly suprising, you should of been able to deduce that he was probably massing air as soon as you saw those cannons. Cannons are a defensive structure that can block off the pathing to your base and cost only minerals. These properties ensure that if you see alot of cannons before with less than 4 bases, your opponent is going for some gas heavy tech and is not planning on attacking you with a ground army. This means that they are either going DTs or air, so you should scout around (as you did) and build cannons yourself while teching to AA.
All of this being said, the sad truth is that in gold league, the best thing to do is just improve your mechanics and macro better. You can be pretty shit strategically and still get very far on mechanics alone, and in gold league that's what will really get you improving
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I personally think people cheese a lot on gold-plat
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On June 23 2016 13:00 nick00bot wrote:
Playing a super weird strategy like that isn't cheese, it's just meant to use your expectations against you. While the hidden base was certainly suprising, you should of been able to deduce that he was probably massing air as soon as you saw those cannons. Cannons are a defensive structure that can block off the pathing to your base and cost only minerals. These properties ensure that if you see alot of cannons before with less than 4 bases, your opponent is going for some gas heavy tech and is not planning on attacking you with a ground army. This means that they are either going DTs or air, so you should scout around (as you did) and build cannons yourself while teching to AA.
Haven't you heard? Anything other than waiting until after 3 bases and then attacking dead into their front with the most standard army composition in the current meta is cheese. To be absolutely certain no cheese is taking place, both players should regularly ping their main army to let the opponent know where it is. The fog of war is for cheesers.
More seriously, if somebody builds an excessive number of cannons, you shouldn't build cannons yourself. You should get a warp prism and a bunch of gateways and just go kill him. If an oracle flies into your mineral line and kills 8 probes while you're inside their main with 8 units, and they've only got 1 warpgate, then who the hell cares? You're about to destroy their main base.
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On June 21 2016 07:47 cellerx wrote:
hey guys, for some reason i couldn't post of SC2 forums so i had to post this here, i have HOTS expansion and iv been playing 1v1 non stop, iv worked my way all the way from bronze to the top of gold but i just cant seem to get into platinum. I know i just have to keep winning, and the new season just started so i figured id get a head start cause all the points are so low from rank to rank. anyways, i was on the biggest winning steak, 8 wins in a row, stopping regular play, rushes, 6 pools, and even stumped a handful of cheeses, anyways, long story short, on my ninth game, i came across another protoss (i main toss) who got me with the most stupidest cheese i have ever seen. Im totally ok with oralce or a cannon rush, but this really pissed me off, and i always happen to get the craziest cheeses ever after a long win streak.
About the game, this game at the very beginning he sent 3 probes to harass me, he didnt do much maybe 3 prob kills, delayed my gateway, so i go scout him after and it looks like he just has 1 gate way building, so i open a quick robo and get some stalkers and head towards his base i get there and theres a bunch of cannons that i fight thur, he stalls with a MSC, i think i have the game in the bag, but i didnt feel safe so i sent a prob to every base on the map, and i find a ninja expand double stargate, before i know it theres 3 oracles and 4 voids in my base.... i was so appalled i ran to his ninja and killed it, then i had to run my probes across the map to try and base race, the oracles were able to kill all my probes the voids killed all pylons, my army comes back to my base and i try to resume prob production and keep my stalkers by my mineral line... i have 50 minerals left i make a probe and the oracle flys in kills it right before dying itself. i was so pissed and i always get some crazy super well practiced cheese right as im getting close to be promoted...
I want to know how to prevent this type of thing from happening, this really made me mad i had to log and go do some yard work, i feel as if not matter what i did, i would have never have scouted that ninja sooner, it was the last base my probe checked after i had to muscle thur his cannons... what makes me more mad is that this guys a top platinum and this win could have promoted me. do the cheeses get worse the higher you ranked up? iv never had this much cheese on a daily bases in silver/bronze to be honest. ever since i got to gold iv tried to be oh soo cautious of the cheese cause every other match it some sort of cheese, what could i have down better? how was i supposed to know he ninja expanded? Again, im not against cheese, just this stupid ninja mass voids oracle that just killed my win streak and my will to play for a little bit. how do you all deal with a cheese loss? i really appreciate the responses thank you for your time.
I don't understand PvP, but I guess you simply scouted too late. Aren't you supposed to be sending hallucinations around or st? I mean, if he had two hidden bases and two stargates, that was a laaaate scout. You probably could've killed him some minutes before that.
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Before reaching diamonds, try to play with the safest opening possible, without cutting any corners, to answer most of the cheeses and allins easily. If you play against a greedy guy you'll have somewhat of a slight dissadvantage but you can catch up by playing well.
And to answer your question about cheeses at higher level : i've played a codebar twice. I know it was the same guy because he's top masters, and canon rushes every single game. His historic shows that he builds canons every single game. He has 52% winrate.
I suppose he changes protraits frequently to be unidentifiable as a codebar and to keep surprising people with this
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Sorry, but losing 3 probes to 3 probes is really bad, you just can't do that. It is relatively easy to not lose any probes, by just pulling the same amount and attacking until you have a unit or he runs away. If he just fights you 3v3, fight for a bit and then just replace those 3 with a new 3. If you had defended the 3 probes without losing any, you could basically do whatever you wanted at that point to win the game.
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EPT
