Hi guys,high diamond terran here. I played bio for such a long time and I want to switch to mech to enjoy a different approach to my race. I found mech quite reliable in TvT and TvZ(I mean reliable agaist diamonds\masters) but I fall apart in TvP.I just cannot figure out what composition can let me survive in the early game stages and,when I pass it,how to stop the big air switch that toss usually makes when he scouts my mech tech.In particular,I feel lost when I face the big carriers\tempest army with my wm\Thor\vikings comp and when the toss goes for a big adepts push in the 2d while warping in the main. Thank you for the support guys,
Maybe hellion/hellbat Tank Liberator and banshee? with a few medivacs and widows lol idk I would have to see your replays and see what you go up against but from what I know TvP mech is just the worst because of immortals they 1 shot all your stuff so you need to make ghosts at some point and ravens
Well I play mech in all matchups at Diamond level and TvP is the hardest.
You cannot damage Protoss early. You cannot defeat Protoss late game. So the key is winning the game in the midgame. Either go hellbat/tank or mine/tank/viking. Prioritize a huge army over upgrades. You need to kill his 3rd and make sure he cannot take a 4th. If Protoss have a 4th the game is mostly over in my experience.
So basically the big push towards his 3rd decides the game. I have tried both hellbat/tank and mine/tank/viking and in my experience mine/tank/viking works better since a) Upgrades are less important since mass mines do most of the damage, the tanks and the vikings are just there for support. b) You can snipe his observers with Vikings making it harder for him to engage your army c) Most Protoss players do not know how to fight against this style compared to the more conventional hellbat/tank style d) Ghosts are not needed since mines depletes the shields fast enough, and for less resources.
Not as strong as bio+support styles. You can make a lot of stuff work but at a given level of skill, the stronger styles will give you the highest winrate and highest MMR.
There is some value of having practice with uncommon styles - if you've done something a thousand times and your opponent has seen it 3 times then you will know exactly what to do for most of the game and they will be lost
Off a Reactor Rax with Cyclone (1) and Siege Tanks after opening is pretty standard from there you can go into 3 Factory aggro after 3rd refinery or 3 CC early if you know what you are doing with Bunkers and Turrets for the Marines.
After that though I honestly do not know whether you should be producing Cyclones, Tanks or what; that depends on your 3rd CC and the opponent's 3rd Nexus timing. I do know that in the late game you will need Ghosts which is the part that most mech players forget (not produced to 10+ just enough to make Protoss think twice about Blink/Ghosting straight into a fortified position).
That should be enough of a starting point but honestly this is all wild guessing. Hope it helps.
Mass tempest can't be beaten with mech but before that I think mech is viable. You just have to win the game with a big push before your opponent has fully transitioned to air.
you can always open up with widow mine drops. Your early game pressure for mech would be hellions or hellbat drops. Think early hots meta. You can also figure out some sort of 2 base banchee timing. Or some variation of Ty's fe factory 2 hellion harass into liberator harass. Definitely a lot of early game pressure you can do.
Another method is to approach tvp the same way that the meta for tvz was in broodwar. Open up with bio (i.e. lots of marines maybe combat shield or stim) rush in and take out some probes or a tech path around 3:30 (that's a usual timing for 3rd base in the current pvt meta). While you're pushing dump your 2-3 rax and switch into factories. You'll have some addons already, maybe starport tech. An idea might be to do this with a medevac or so, but save the medevac at all costs for additional harass. Another idea would be liberator push plus the marine timing.
I think wm/tank/viking with some liberator support would be best. You'll want some liberators because of the higher mobility (could use medevacs here too but that's a little stylistic). Wm do bonus damage vs. shields so they should be used for sure. Hellions are your harassing unit, but since wm also take up supply, you should prioritize them. Also mines can more easily protect your flanks (the key to toss defeating mech pushes with ground units).
I'm a masters protoss and bw Terran and these are my experiences or troubles that I see that can take apart protosses. Best of luck, please post replays if you figure anything out.
In the last few days I lost vs (and I may even be forgetting some other unfortunate events) : 1) greedy fast 3rd with a lot of hellions/hellbats and liberator harass while amassing tanks, libs and hellions. I tried going for carriers but I never had enough eco and he overwhelmed me with a viking transition. 2) feinted all-in into fast 3rd into biomech push on Dusk Towers (4 libs, 1 tank, 1 cyclone, mines + a sprinkle of marines and marauders). I broke the contain but then got overwhelmed by his eco, he went for ghosts + cloak banshees + some marines and vikings and sniped my obs consistently. 3) big thor + mines + libs push before I had enough air.
In all those games I made some obvious mistakes (mid masters, ~1800 pts), for instance my harass was barely existent in the first game and my storm was absurdly delayed on the second one, keeping me from breaking the content a lot earlier, but you definitely can make some good plays happen with mech or biomech. Plus it's very unsettling as P to play vs mech so you can easily get into your opponent's head.
On June 06 2016 17:00 aaycumi wrote: EJK's Mech to Masters, first game is a TvP
That proves nothing. Anyone can beat a player one league lower than themselves. I mean if top Korean pro wanted to smurf NA ladder he could easily beat every GM on there with mech.
A style of play is only viable if you can win consistently against players of equal skill.
If a high Master player have a 50% win record against other high Master players in TvP when using mech then we can say that mech is viable in TvP at least to high master level.
I play mech in TvP in high masters. I would argue it's not really viable, but it's strong because protoss always expect bio play, and they still have no idea how to use their units against mech.
The strat i've had the most sucess with is to do a big agression on 2 bases with 2-3 factories and a reactored starport. Because blink stalker singlehandedly counter every mech units unless your whole army is present to defend, you have to play agressively so the guy doesn't just suffocate you with a mobile troop of blink stalkers that snipe off your units.
Your basic combo is liberators + AoE under it. Liberators + mines + cyclones + hellbats for instance : it prevents the protoss player from engaging because he'll eat both the liberator shots and the mines, and it prevents him from kiting because hellion + cyclone has great "chasing" power.
The only way you're gonna make mech work is by really understanding that you can't play turtly, and you can't wait for the late game. You have to deal damage, and to abuse liberators (kinda like when playing bio). The big advantage with mech, that's linked to this urge you have to attack, is that you can prevent a protoss from turtling, and you're usually safer against allins. If he goes for tempest too quickly, you can just Amove with your production because he won't have enough on the ground to contest an Amove. Also, don't forget to go for harass with medivacs. Upgrade wise, it depends wether you play with mines/cyclones/liberators, or more with hellions/tanks/liberators. In the first case, you wanna upgrade the armor, because both the mine, the cyclone's lock and the liberator AG don't benefit a lot from attack upgrades, and in the second, just upgrade the ground mech attack.
Finally, if you ever find yourself forced to play late game/turtle style, you have to go for ghosts, and don't ever forget that liberators are the best counter to carriers (just Amove into the interceptors and let the glorious splash do its mighty work). Don't under estimate the power of PDDs, that allow you to soak up 20 tempest shots, and don't ever forget that if you loose your hellbat shield, you're gonna die to zealots warpins.
On June 07 2016 03:14 JackONeill wrote: I play mech in TvP in high masters. I would argue it's not really viable, but it's strong because protoss always expect bio play, and they still have no idea how to use their units against mech.
The strat i've had the most sucess with is to do a big agression on 2 bases with 2-3 factories and a reactored starport. Because blink stalker singlehandedly counter every mech units unless your whole army is present to defend, you have to play agressively so the guy doesn't just suffocate you with a mobile troop of blink stalkers that snipe off your units.
Your basic combo is liberators + AoE under it. Liberators + mines + cyclones + hellbats for instance : it prevents the protoss player from engaging because he'll eat both the liberator shots and the mines, and it prevents him from kiting because hellion + cyclone has great "chasing" power.
The only way you're gonna make mech work is by really understanding that you can't play turtly, and you can't wait for the late game. You have to deal damage, and to abuse liberators (kinda like when playing bio). The big advantage with mech, that's linked to this urge you have to attack, is that you can prevent a protoss from turtling, and you're usually safer against allins. If he goes for tempest too quickly, you can just Amove with your production because he won't have enough on the ground to contest an Amove. Also, don't forget to go for harass with medivacs. Upgrade wise, it depends wether you play with mines/cyclones/liberators, or more with hellions/tanks/liberators. In the first case, you wanna upgrade the armor, because both the mine, the cyclone's lock and the liberator AG don't benefit a lot from attack upgrades, and in the second, just upgrade the ground mech attack.
Finally, if you ever find yourself forced to play late game/turtle style, you have to go for ghosts, and don't ever forget that liberators are the best counter to carriers (just Amove into the interceptors and let the glorious splash do its mighty work). Don't under estimate the power of PDDs, that allow you to soak up 20 tempest shots, and don't ever forget that if you loose your hellbat shield, you're gonna die to zealots warpins.
Do you have any replays of this? Would be really interesting to watch.
On June 06 2016 17:00 aaycumi wrote: EJK's Mech to Masters, first game is a TvP
That proves nothing. Anyone can beat a player one league lower than themselves. I mean if top Korean pro wanted to smurf NA ladder he could easily beat every GM on there with mech.
A style of play is only viable if you can win consistently against players of equal skill.
If a high Master player have a 50% win record against other high Master players in TvP when using mech then we can say that mech is viable in TvP at least to high master level.
It proves that if you are the better player, you can make much work. And if you aren't the better player, self evaluation and assessment of your losses can make you better.
I am currently out of the country, but I do intend on doing a mech to gm series, going from masters to gm level on NA. In the mech to masters series I was experimenting with mech into bio to counter tempest reactions, but mech to gm will be pure 100% mech, only bio unit that might be used is ghost.
I originally was a bio player in hots, and towards the end I played only mech at a top 16 gm level. I was able to consistently have at LEAST a 50% winrate against top players that knew my style.
I tried to make mech work for about 6 months in lotv, but I hit a wall at top 50gm NA and top 100gm EU. I'd like to think that I have grown as a player a lot since I switched back to bio, and with some recent changes I would like to test mech out once more.
Will I find success? Maybe I will, maybe I will fail hard. But if it is to work, I am more then capable of seeing it to fruition. My tvz mech is already top level, so I know that mech works in at least one matchup. Wouldn't it be great if it worked in all 3 matchups hehe
On June 07 2016 03:14 JackONeill wrote: I play mech in TvP in high masters. I would argue it's not really viable, but it's strong because protoss always expect bio play, and they still have no idea how to use their units against mech.
The strat i've had the most sucess with is to do a big agression on 2 bases with 2-3 factories and a reactored starport. Because blink stalker singlehandedly counter every mech units unless your whole army is present to defend, you have to play agressively so the guy doesn't just suffocate you with a mobile troop of blink stalkers that snipe off your units.
Your basic combo is liberators + AoE under it. Liberators + mines + cyclones + hellbats for instance : it prevents the protoss player from engaging because he'll eat both the liberator shots and the mines, and it prevents him from kiting because hellion + cyclone has great "chasing" power.
The only way you're gonna make mech work is by really understanding that you can't play turtly, and you can't wait for the late game. You have to deal damage, and to abuse liberators (kinda like when playing bio). The big advantage with mech, that's linked to this urge you have to attack, is that you can prevent a protoss from turtling, and you're usually safer against allins. If he goes for tempest too quickly, you can just Amove with your production because he won't have enough on the ground to contest an Amove. Also, don't forget to go for harass with medivacs. Upgrade wise, it depends wether you play with mines/cyclones/liberators, or more with hellions/tanks/liberators. In the first case, you wanna upgrade the armor, because both the mine, the cyclone's lock and the liberator AG don't benefit a lot from attack upgrades, and in the second, just upgrade the ground mech attack.
Finally, if you ever find yourself forced to play late game/turtle style, you have to go for ghosts, and don't ever forget that liberators are the best counter to carriers (just Amove into the interceptors and let the glorious splash do its mighty work). Don't under estimate the power of PDDs, that allow you to soak up 20 tempest shots, and don't ever forget that if you loose your hellbat shield, you're gonna die to zealots warpins.
Do you have any replays of this? Would be really interesting to watch.
There you go, keep in mind that i'm experimenting so the builds are probably terrible xD I'm playing high masters but my MMR isn't that good i suppose so it's gonna be harder and harder to make such builds work, but for now i have 76% winrate in TvP
@EJK:I will be very pleased to follow your "mech to gm" 100% mech style!! @Jack: Thank you,useful replays and explanation! Do you guys think we will able to use more cyclones after its cooldown fix?
As a toss player I don't think it is viable. The only time I lose to mech is when I didn't realise it was mech. But a surprise factor can catch people of guard regardless of the build so I wouldn't call that making it viable.
I actually have no idea how to counter mech I just do what feels natural and the below is what feels natural.
1. Mech players will tend to do an early harass with hellion or widow mines and takes quickish a 3rd. 2. If toss defends the harass properly and the Terran takes a 3rd. You can easily go and just kill him off 2 bases. 3. If toss defends the harass and Terran stays on 2 bases. Toss will take a 3rd knowing the lack of gas means terran will be high on hellions and low on tanks/liberators.
Interested to hear if terran players disagree with my above assessment.
On June 07 2016 03:14 JackONeill wrote: I play mech in TvP in high masters. I would argue it's not really viable, but it's strong because protoss always expect bio play, and they still have no idea how to use their units against mech.
The strat i've had the most sucess with is to do a big agression on 2 bases with 2-3 factories and a reactored starport. Because blink stalker singlehandedly counter every mech units unless your whole army is present to defend, you have to play agressively so the guy doesn't just suffocate you with a mobile troop of blink stalkers that snipe off your units.
Your basic combo is liberators + AoE under it. Liberators + mines + cyclones + hellbats for instance : it prevents the protoss player from engaging because he'll eat both the liberator shots and the mines, and it prevents him from kiting because hellion + cyclone has great "chasing" power.
The only way you're gonna make mech work is by really understanding that you can't play turtly, and you can't wait for the late game. You have to deal damage, and to abuse liberators (kinda like when playing bio). The big advantage with mech, that's linked to this urge you have to attack, is that you can prevent a protoss from turtling, and you're usually safer against allins. If he goes for tempest too quickly, you can just Amove with your production because he won't have enough on the ground to contest an Amove. Also, don't forget to go for harass with medivacs. Upgrade wise, it depends wether you play with mines/cyclones/liberators, or more with hellions/tanks/liberators. In the first case, you wanna upgrade the armor, because both the mine, the cyclone's lock and the liberator AG don't benefit a lot from attack upgrades, and in the second, just upgrade the ground mech attack.
Finally, if you ever find yourself forced to play late game/turtle style, you have to go for ghosts, and don't ever forget that liberators are the best counter to carriers (just Amove into the interceptors and let the glorious splash do its mighty work). Don't under estimate the power of PDDs, that allow you to soak up 20 tempest shots, and don't ever forget that if you loose your hellbat shield, you're gonna die to zealots warpins.
Do you have any replays of this? Would be really interesting to watch.
There you go, keep in mind that i'm experimenting so the builds are probably terrible xD I'm playing high masters but my MMR isn't that good i suppose so it's gonna be harder and harder to make such builds work, but for now i have 76% winrate in TvP
Awesome! I am impressed that you got cyclones to work, I think I have lost most of my games where I built more then one or two.
A couple of questions 1. Why do you place your turrets a few inches in instead of at the very edge of your base? 2. If Protoss uses Colossus or Disruptor do you still build cyclones?
On June 07 2016 03:14 JackONeill wrote: I play mech in TvP in high masters. I would argue it's not really viable, but it's strong because protoss always expect bio play, and they still have no idea how to use their units against mech.
The strat i've had the most sucess with is to do a big agression on 2 bases with 2-3 factories and a reactored starport. Because blink stalker singlehandedly counter every mech units unless your whole army is present to defend, you have to play agressively so the guy doesn't just suffocate you with a mobile troop of blink stalkers that snipe off your units.
Your basic combo is liberators + AoE under it. Liberators + mines + cyclones + hellbats for instance : it prevents the protoss player from engaging because he'll eat both the liberator shots and the mines, and it prevents him from kiting because hellion + cyclone has great "chasing" power.
The only way you're gonna make mech work is by really understanding that you can't play turtly, and you can't wait for the late game. You have to deal damage, and to abuse liberators (kinda like when playing bio). The big advantage with mech, that's linked to this urge you have to attack, is that you can prevent a protoss from turtling, and you're usually safer against allins. If he goes for tempest too quickly, you can just Amove with your production because he won't have enough on the ground to contest an Amove. Also, don't forget to go for harass with medivacs. Upgrade wise, it depends wether you play with mines/cyclones/liberators, or more with hellions/tanks/liberators. In the first case, you wanna upgrade the armor, because both the mine, the cyclone's lock and the liberator AG don't benefit a lot from attack upgrades, and in the second, just upgrade the ground mech attack.
Finally, if you ever find yourself forced to play late game/turtle style, you have to go for ghosts, and don't ever forget that liberators are the best counter to carriers (just Amove into the interceptors and let the glorious splash do its mighty work). Don't under estimate the power of PDDs, that allow you to soak up 20 tempest shots, and don't ever forget that if you loose your hellbat shield, you're gonna die to zealots warpins.
Do you have any replays of this? Would be really interesting to watch.
There you go, keep in mind that i'm experimenting so the builds are probably terrible xD I'm playing high masters but my MMR isn't that good i suppose so it's gonna be harder and harder to make such builds work, but for now i have 76% winrate in TvP
Awesome! I am impressed that you got cyclones to work, I think I have lost most of my games where I built more then one or two.
A couple of questions 1. Why do you place your turrets a few inches in instead of at the very edge of your base? 2. If Protoss uses Colossus or Disruptor do you still build cyclones?
1) i don't really get what you're refering to in those replays, but usually you don't want your turrets to get sniped from below (blink stalkers especially : you want to force the protoss to commit to a blink if he wants to runby with stalkers, so you put turrets a little more inside, and have few tanks/mines in range of the zone where he's gonna blink into, leaving him blinkless to dodge them), and you wanna cover the most ground to prevent prisms from finding a spot where they can deploy to warp in so putting them a few inches in helps to cover those spots, i guess? 2) a protoss going colossi against mech may be the worst decision. It gets mauled by thors with the new AA, liberators, vikings, tanks and banshees. I guess it would only help to clean the hellbat shield for zealots to rush tanks, but if you scout it decently and ajust your comp i don't see it working. But yeah they prevent cyclones from poking and locking, but they allow you to build a much more strong/static army : because there won't be as much immortals you can go all out and build a retarded comp with near only tanks and hellbats. Disruptors are a headache. They slightly outrange tanks, so if you don't have the mighty liberator/tank compo your gonna get chipped away. However, I guess they're not very good against cyclones and hellions once you notice there's disruptors, you just move too fast. Also, well they're not very good to unlock a contain, because once again you can't build as much immortals as you'd want, so against disruptors you don't have to stop cyclones, but you have to stop building widow mines. Because they're just gonna get sniped by novas and leave the liberators unprotected. So against disruptors I suppose you'd want to stop mines (or use them as harass tools), build one-two medics to prevent your tanks from getting sniped, and build more tanks. Especially since a protoss going disruptors can only have blink stalkers with it, so with mines getting sniped you want your tanks to kill the stalkers. If he engages in liberators + tanks with blink stalkers disruptors, you want to focus the disruptors with your liberators and tanks before the novas hit, to protect your hellbats and cyclone which will force the stalkers to move away (because hellbats deal SO MUCH damage to stalkers), and then the remaining stalkers should be cleaned up easily.
Oh and something important i forgot to state before : it may be sad, but don't disable the automatic lock on the cyclones. I've tried to micro and lock manually, but in the heat of the fights it's MUCH more important to have your cyclones in protected position because they have only 120 hps. Even if they lock onto zealots or adepts it's not that bad, because they're gonna deal enough damage to allow the hellbats to survive a little longer, therefore soaking a little more damage, therefore deflecting a little more damage from your damage dealing units. Of course when you want to kill a prism that's warping adepts in, you can manually lock on, but you don't have to disable the auto lock for that. So really, since you're already using so much apm to be positionned correctly, lock on manually is too gambly I think.
I'm a predominantly bio masters Terran player. I don't claim to be an expert in mech ( or good at the game) but in my experience mech units on thier own just can't function well against imortals, tempests, chargelots and the like. Whenever I try mech in the mu I just end up massing libs and ghosts to deal with my opponents anti mech comp. Also thier are resons you don't see mech anymore at the pro level(at least in kr). It's not just because pros like bio units. During hots Terran showed they were willing to mech if it works. It sadly doesn't now.
However just because at a high level a build is not viable It does not mean you can't have a great deal of fun using it. One of the funest and most educational thing to do in sc2 imo is to make your own builds and develops your own play style. Even if it won't work for the pros you can probably make anything work up to high masters if you figure out the right ajustments and reactions to fit the way you want to play. Doing so also helps you learn about the way diffrent match ups function. I still go my home made reactor reaper pressure into +1 bio push frequently in tvz even though I know it's an inferior style because it's fun to play the game the way I want.
On June 07 2016 03:14 JackONeill wrote: I play mech in TvP in high masters. I would argue it's not really viable, but it's strong because protoss always expect bio play, and they still have no idea how to use their units against mech.
The strat i've had the most sucess with is to do a big agression on 2 bases with 2-3 factories and a reactored starport. Because blink stalker singlehandedly counter every mech units unless your whole army is present to defend, you have to play agressively so the guy doesn't just suffocate you with a mobile troop of blink stalkers that snipe off your units.
Your basic combo is liberators + AoE under it. Liberators + mines + cyclones + hellbats for instance : it prevents the protoss player from engaging because he'll eat both the liberator shots and the mines, and it prevents him from kiting because hellion + cyclone has great "chasing" power.
The only way you're gonna make mech work is by really understanding that you can't play turtly, and you can't wait for the late game. You have to deal damage, and to abuse liberators (kinda like when playing bio). The big advantage with mech, that's linked to this urge you have to attack, is that you can prevent a protoss from turtling, and you're usually safer against allins. If he goes for tempest too quickly, you can just Amove with your production because he won't have enough on the ground to contest an Amove. Also, don't forget to go for harass with medivacs. Upgrade wise, it depends wether you play with mines/cyclones/liberators, or more with hellions/tanks/liberators. In the first case, you wanna upgrade the armor, because both the mine, the cyclone's lock and the liberator AG don't benefit a lot from attack upgrades, and in the second, just upgrade the ground mech attack.
Finally, if you ever find yourself forced to play late game/turtle style, you have to go for ghosts, and don't ever forget that liberators are the best counter to carriers (just Amove into the interceptors and let the glorious splash do its mighty work). Don't under estimate the power of PDDs, that allow you to soak up 20 tempest shots, and don't ever forget that if you loose your hellbat shield, you're gonna die to zealots warpins.
Do you have any replays of this? Would be really interesting to watch.
There you go, keep in mind that i'm experimenting so the builds are probably terrible xD I'm playing high masters but my MMR isn't that good i suppose so it's gonna be harder and harder to make such builds work, but for now i have 76% winrate in TvP
Awesome! I am impressed that you got cyclones to work, I think I have lost most of my games where I built more then one or two.
A couple of questions 1. Why do you place your turrets a few inches in instead of at the very edge of your base? 2. If Protoss uses Colossus or Disruptor do you still build cyclones?
1) i don't really get what you're refering to in those replays, but usually you don't want your turrets to get sniped from below (blink stalkers especially : you want to force the protoss to commit to a blink if he wants to runby with stalkers, so you put turrets a little more inside, and have few tanks/mines in range of the zone where he's gonna blink into, leaving him blinkless to dodge them), and you wanna cover the most ground to prevent prisms from finding a spot where they can deploy to warp in so putting them a few inches in helps to cover those spots, i guess? 2) a protoss going colossi against mech may be the worst decision. It gets mauled by thors with the new AA, liberators, vikings, tanks and banshees. I guess it would only help to clean the hellbat shield for zealots to rush tanks, but if you scout it decently and ajust your comp i don't see it working. But yeah they prevent cyclones from poking and locking, but they allow you to build a much more strong/static army : because there won't be as much immortals you can go all out and build a retarded comp with near only tanks and hellbats. Disruptors are a headache. They slightly outrange tanks, so if you don't have the mighty liberator/tank compo your gonna get chipped away. However, I guess they're not very good against cyclones and hellions once you notice there's disruptors, you just move too fast. Also, well they're not very good to unlock a contain, because once again you can't build as much immortals as you'd want, so against disruptors you don't have to stop cyclones, but you have to stop building widow mines. Because they're just gonna get sniped by novas and leave the liberators unprotected. So against disruptors I suppose you'd want to stop mines (or use them as harass tools), build one-two medics to prevent your tanks from getting sniped, and build more tanks. Especially since a protoss going disruptors can only have blink stalkers with it, so with mines getting sniped you want your tanks to kill the stalkers. If he engages in liberators + tanks with blink stalkers disruptors, you want to focus the disruptors with your liberators and tanks before the novas hit, to protect your hellbats and cyclone which will force the stalkers to move away (because hellbats deal SO MUCH damage to stalkers), and then the remaining stalkers should be cleaned up easily.
Oh and something important i forgot to state before : it may be sad, but don't disable the automatic lock on the cyclones. I've tried to micro and lock manually, but in the heat of the fights it's MUCH more important to have your cyclones in protected position because they have only 120 hps. Even if they lock onto zealots or adepts it's not that bad, because they're gonna deal enough damage to allow the hellbats to survive a little longer, therefore soaking a little more damage, therefore deflecting a little more damage from your damage dealing units. Of course when you want to kill a prism that's warping adepts in, you can manually lock on, but you don't have to disable the auto lock for that. So really, since you're already using so much apm to be positionned correctly, lock on manually is too gambly I think.
Ok. I tried going cyclone/mine a couple of games against Protoss and it worked really well. Is there any reason to have hellions as well? Hellions do very little damage compared to mines and cyclones and just seem to occupy precocious factory time. Am I missing some reason for including the hellions instead of just building more mines.
Well if your opponent is retarded of course he's gonna jump on mines all the time. Plus, mines have the advantage to cost less in minerals so you can expand faster. But if you don't want to bet too much on your opponent's stupidity, hellbats are much more reliable splash damage "area denial". Also they're much easier to use for runbies and drops.
Also, and i can't stress this enough, hellions protect your cyclones when you come to poke and lock. I dunno why, but cyclones tend to eat shots when they lock even though they're supposed to have 7 lock on range. So a couple hellions in front force the protoss to manually target the cyclones. Which he won't do most of the time.
Ok I have played the cyclone/hellion/mine/viking for several games now.
The upside is that you survive longer then the typical mech game, you are in a better position to not die in the early game or in the early midgame.
The downside is that I find it very hard to do enough damage. Protoss just blink out of lockon range so I kill a few stalker but not enough to get a real advantage. Then they start to add disruptors and it become very hard to engage their army. So instead of using lock on on and sniping their units I have to run away from disruptor shots all the time.
Is there any solution to this? I was thinking of adding in tanks but then you lose all mobility.
Replay Here are 2 replays of me playing this style. Any feedback would be much appreciated TvP 1 TvP 2
I'll see it Tomorrow morning,,thank you for the replay. Hope to see a fix to the cyclone bug soon,my mech is suffering more because of the insane lockon cooldown
I only saw the first game but you have macro issues, especially early game. And you can't make mines your main fighting unit. They're supposed to be support AoE, if you use it as your main unit it's not gonna work : at some point the guy is gonna build disruptors and colossi and you're gonna die.
You built no liberators, which are your saving grace in this matchup, and you never dropped once even though the unit you built the most is awesome at killing workers
Hey guys, please consider mass thors in the late game context.
Thors are resource inefficient, but supply efficient. Their size and power can be hard to overcome once they reach a critical mass. Their lack of mobility and high cost are their greatest weaknesses.
The basic idea is to defend, harass/attack, take 3 bases, mass thors+ counter composition. Once nearing 200/200, expand more, upgrades should complete, with ample resources, we go allin with most of our scv + thor + our other counter composition (ghosts + viking are great vs the counters to thor [broodlord, infestor; templars and tempest]).
Yes, this is a very old strategy with many flaws, but I've still used it with success against opponents in LotV(I attained diamond 1v1 last season as Random+stating race/terran with not much effort).
Adding in a few reapers with hellion/cyclone really helps, the lock-on still stays attached as the enemy unit bounces away from the grenade, gives your army a chance to move away and not get surrounded.
Past low gm it gets very hard much harder than bio. Ruff makes it work in top 16 on NA but even past that probably not viable or at least way harder than bio.
I also think viability depends on the map and what you mean by 'mech'.
I was pleasantly surprised when taking my 4th gas, that I saw I had almost 500 gas accumulated so I canceled it and took it later (the 50 gas nerf to cyclones makes them super affordable)!
To be fair though, I am at least mid gm level on EU, so I was definitly just a better player then my opponent still, so there is a lot that remains to be discovered
Can you win the majority of your ladder games with it ? If you do it right
Can you win the majority of your games against someone who know what's coming ? Probably not
Is it viable in a competitive setting ? Nop
HotS added its fair share of problems for mech (the biggest being the f*cking tempest), and LotV did not improve it with the new units, maps, and economy...
On July 02 2016 19:48 Lyyna wrote: Depends how you define "viable"
Can you grind up there on the ladder ? sure
Can you have a ton of fun with it ? Maybe
Can you win the majority of your ladder games with it ? If you do it right
Can you win the majority of your games against someone who know what's coming ? Probably not
Is it viable in a competitive setting ? Nop
HotS added its fair share of problems for mech (the biggest being the f*cking tempest), and LotV did not improve it with the new units, maps, and economy...
EPT
