EPTvideo goes more indepth but essentially
early game - scout opponent ---> react
mid game - have a timing in mind (timing example in video is stim/wm drop/lib harass triple timing)
late game - army mobility, knowing when to attack, when to defend
[G] Early, Mid, Late game goals for Terran in TvP
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EJK
United States1302 Posts
video goes more indepth but essentially early game - scout opponent ---> react mid game - have a timing in mind (timing example in video is stim/wm drop/lib harass triple timing) late game - army mobility, knowing when to attack, when to defend | ||
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RandomAccount#216215
76 Posts
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swissman777
1106 Posts
On May 29 2016 16:47 isrtor2 wrote: First, I would ask: how did maru know when to send all his medivacs fully loaded to threaten the 4th. Did keep track of Zest's army? What if when his units loaded up and started flying, zest blink stalker and adept army marched in and killed everything else? That can happen, maru didn't have a forward scouting unit as far as i saw, maybe he did and i missed it. Secondly, he does this move(loading all his medivacs and sending them down right) successfully twice or three times, and against zest its only luck that the medivacs didn't get caught by blink stalkers, zest normally has really good vision of medivacs and/or army but this time he kinda messed that up. Notice Maru scans his army before loading medivacs but there isn't even an obs there... If zest had better obs positioned and more luck with spotting the medivacs... game would look very different, especially since he was economically ahead he basically would have won unless he miscontrolled. Zest second biggest mistake is trying to tech Tempest, he would be much better off with more HT. A few lucky storms could really have saved him and allowed him to defend much better. Maybe its his biggest mistake? HT would allow zest to split his army and still win fights thx to storm. Zest was preparing for a full teched army with a lot of liberators, he is probably used to practise with TY and players like that, they go full macro into late game tech'ed armies. Zest probably thought that maru wouldn't just stay on almost exclusively MMM since the real power of lotv terran is in the liberator. So if zest had more luck with spotting the medivac movement and didn't tech tempest, i think he would be able to defend his 4th, stay ahead, and fight head on every battle. Ofcourse Maru's micro is probably very good i wouldn't count him out but he was way behind with his build/timings. You are right about 3cc builds not being effective enough defensively and offensively, seems like a lotv problem. It's probably the biggest tvp lotv issue. The hellion opening is simply bad, don't believe me just try it on ladder you will see in how many ways protoss can defend this. Zest is not a newbie, he has seen a few builds in his life... he probably assumed this wouldn't happen. Besides all my criticism, thx for the post, i think maru's playstyle is a great way to improve in both tvz and tvp. I think zest's biggest mistake was to move out when he was going tempests. If he had more tempests and bigger gateway army, then moving out would have worked, but not when he had none of them. | ||
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Liox
Germany47 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16074 Posts
Shows that they don't really understand tvp as it's really standard atm that protoss gets a far earlier 3rd base. | ||
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EJK
United States1302 Posts
On May 29 2016 16:47 isrtor2 wrote: First, I would ask: how did maru know when to send all his medivacs fully loaded to threaten the 4th. Did keep track of Zest's army? What if when his units loaded up and started flying, zest blink stalker and adept army marched in and killed everything else? That can happen, maru didn't have a forward scouting unit as far as i saw, maybe he did and i missed it. Secondly, he does this move(loading all his medivacs and sending them down right) successfully twice or three times, and against zest its only luck that the medivacs didn't get caught by blink stalkers, zest normally has really good vision of medivacs and/or army but this time he kinda messed that up. Notice Maru scans his army before loading medivacs but there isn't even an obs there... If zest had better obs positioned and more luck with spotting the medivacs... game would look very different, especially since he was economically ahead he basically would have won unless he miscontrolled. Zest second biggest mistake is trying to tech Tempest, he would be much better off with more HT. A few lucky storms could really have saved him and allowed him to defend much better. Maybe its his biggest mistake? HT would allow zest to split his army and still win fights thx to storm. Zest was preparing for a full teched army with a lot of liberators, he is probably used to practise with TY and players like that, they go full macro into late game tech'ed armies. Zest probably thought that maru wouldn't just stay on almost exclusively MMM since the real power of lotv terran is in the liberator. So if zest had more luck with spotting the medivac movement and didn't tech tempest, i think he would be able to defend his 4th, stay ahead, and fight head on every battle. Ofcourse Maru's micro is probably very good i wouldn't count him out but he was way behind with his build/timings. You are right about 3cc builds not being effective enough defensively and offensively, seems like a lotv problem. It's probably the biggest tvp lotv issue. The hellion opening is simply bad, don't believe me just try it on ladder you will see in how many ways protoss can defend this. Zest is not a newbie, he has seen a few builds in his life... he probably assumed this wouldn't happen. Besides all my criticism, thx for the post, i think maru's playstyle is a great way to improve in both tvz and tvp. First - I think maru felt comfortable enough that zest was going to take a 4th base (this is the zest pvt style and he has not changed up his pvt in a very long time) so he could take advantage of zest's predictability. Second - Your theory about obs position is valid. There were 4 observers I believe before the first warp prism/immortal were made and they were all defensively positioned to guard against drops I believe, not trying to hover around Maru's army. Notice when Maru's medivacs initially land units, there is a stalker in place and a pylon about to be built. That is a very powerful move on Zest's part essentially telling us that he knows that spot is a vulnerable weak spot, so he is positioning something there that will tell him when Maru drops there. I guess Zest DID seem caught off guard by the 2nd attack of maru (the bio + lib force) and I think he might not have been privy to that part of Maru's army, and then he saw it at last second and frantically moved to deal with it without taking the time to split up his army. Throughout your post, you have said "luck" quite a few times. There is a lot less luck involved than you think. Furthermore, any high level player such as Maru and Zest will NEVER go into a game thinking "oh i hope i get lucky". They will never hope for that "lucky' moment, as a progamer you want to minimize the amount of "luck" and "chance" you have in a game to as little as possible. That is a dangerous mindset to have, thinking "If X were more lucky...." and could potentially block you mentally from moving up the ladder On May 29 2016 17:04 swissman777 wrote: I think zest's biggest mistake was to move out when he was going tempests. If he had more tempests and bigger gateway army, then moving out would have worked, but not when he had none of them. Definitely. The game would have continued had he not tried to attack with his msc and 2 tempest army. I can only explain this from my point of view, but maybe Zest can relate. The engagement that zest took right before his counter attack, Maru messed up and took a unfavorable engagement. Zest was just trying to capitalize on the situation like he should, but in a low eco game it can be very difficult to gauge your opponents army size/production capacity/economy and I think Zest made an error in judgement thinking that he was farther ahead then he actually was when he attacked. | ||
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