EPTOnly 1 for all hatches, 2 for all queens, and lately 3 for some creep queens. So I would like to get a idea for how to use control groups.
The LotV Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 37
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Ronaldoz
6 Posts
Only 1 for all hatches, 2 for all queens, and lately 3 for some creep queens. So I would like to get a idea for how to use control groups. | ||
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cw
26 Posts
im not very good so would appreciate someones expert opinion | ||
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BelialSC2
38 Posts
Do you guys constantly add units to groups? I could imagine you sometimes like to split or anything and then use 2 groups? But also have more groups for other units? How do you guys basically using this control groups? I never used them. Only 1 for all hatches, 2 for all queens, and lately 3 for some creep queens. So I would like to get a idea for how to use control groups. Shift+#. So what I do, is I make a bunch of, say, lings, then I ctrl+leftclick on the eggs so only the eggs are selected (and the unused larva is removed) and then shift+# to add them to the control group I want to. I use 1 Army, 2 Infestors or Vipers, 3 Air/Scouts, 4 Queens, 5 hatches, 6 upgrades. Shift+add larva all day long. are swarm hosts viable in any situation right now? the best use i can think of is poking down a turtler but i feel theyre so inefficient As I understand, no, but Railgan has some cool videos showing Swarmhost harass on maps like King szechuan. | ||
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Aelendis
Belgium892 Posts
I have Dasan veto'd but I still don't know about the others. | ||
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insekt
3 Posts
I have the same problem with terrans that turtle, usually with mech. Terrans that go for aggression I usually beat with ultras in the late game but terrans that simply get a fast 3rd with lots of liberators and tanks and just camps beat me every time. Again I cannot find any composition that works. It's so frustrating that when we both do the same thing, that is get 3-4 bases and units his just completely beats mine. I simply cannot attack a terran that has siege tanks and liberators and planetary fortresses and wall ins, missile turrets and proper sim city. Against turtle players, regardless of them being terrans and protoss I can't find any way to outplay them. The games are usually without any multitasking or real micro or macro or skill. We both just get everything we want, our armies clash and the other play wins. Please help, I'm gonna have to quit this game if I can't figure this out. | ||
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DERASTAT
Germany99 Posts
On July 19 2016 22:37 insekt wrote: Hey guys. I'm struggling real bad, I've been in the same league and same mmr (diamond 2, 4100) for a really long time now and I just can't seem to improve. My problem is that I cannot beat turtle terrans and turtle protosses. Whenever I face say a protoss that just sits in his base, gets 3-4 bases and lots of voidrays and carriers and a mothership I try to fight his army but it always completely destroys mine. I usually go for hydralisks and I've also tried corrupters but nothing seems to work, the viper cloud ability does close to no damage. I just cannot find an opening for aggression or harass and then when we fight with maxed out armies, like I said, his destroys mine. Is there any zerg comp that can fight mass void ray carrier? How am I supposed to harass or outplay a protoss that turtles? Mutas aren't an option against air. With cannons and wall ins zergling runbys aren't an option. Drops don't work against a protoss with lots of cannons and voidrays. What the hell am I supposed to do?! Get the exact perfect composition against his and completely outmicro him in the 200/200 fight? That's unreasonable when the protoss doesn't really do anything but get 3-4 bases and lots of units. I have the same problem with terrans that turtle, usually with mech. Terrans that go for aggression I usually beat with ultras in the late game but terrans that simply get a fast 3rd with lots of liberators and tanks and just camps beat me every time. Again I cannot find any composition that works. It's so frustrating that when we both do the same thing, that is get 3-4 bases and units his just completely beats mine. I simply cannot attack a terran that has siege tanks and liberators and planetary fortresses and wall ins, missile turrets and proper sim city. Against turtle players, regardless of them being terrans and protoss I can't find any way to outplay them. The games are usually without any multitasking or real micro or macro or skill. We both just get everything we want, our armies clash and the other play wins. Please help, I'm gonna have to quit this game if I can't figure this out. Day9: "just fucking kill him", yeah if you opponent does some wird stuff mostly just build units and attack them before they have evcrything they want, if protoss builds a fleet beacon just do a 3 base Ling hydra push or a +1/+1 roach push agaisnt terran, most of the time they invested in so much tech or expensive units that you just have way more stuff to kill him | ||
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insekt
3 Posts
http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=88549409089417530973 http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=01725751562563350217 Two example games, one vs protoss, one vs terran. There are openings where I could do damage and possibly kill them early but I feel like finding those openings and properly taking advantage of them requires a ton more skill from me than it does from them. I feel like my punishes would have to be spot on, near perfect, Dark style to actually work. | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
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insitelol
845 Posts
On July 19 2016 22:37 insekt wrote: Hey guys. I'm struggling real bad, I've been in the same league and same mmr (diamond 2, 4100) for a really long time now and I just can't seem to improve. My problem is that I cannot beat turtle terrans and turtle protosses. Whenever I face say a protoss that just sits in his base, gets 3-4 bases and lots of voidrays and carriers and a mothership I try to fight his army but it always completely destroys mine. I usually go for hydralisks and I've also tried corrupters but nothing seems to work, the viper cloud ability does close to no damage. I just cannot find an opening for aggression or harass and then when we fight with maxed out armies, like I said, his destroys mine. Is there any zerg comp that can fight mass void ray carrier? How am I supposed to harass or outplay a protoss that turtles? Mutas aren't an option against air. With cannons and wall ins zergling runbys aren't an option. Drops don't work against a protoss with lots of cannons and voidrays. What the hell am I supposed to do?! Get the exact perfect composition against his and completely outmicro him in the 200/200 fight? That's unreasonable when the protoss doesn't really do anything but get 3-4 bases and lots of units. I have the same problem with terrans that turtle, usually with mech. Terrans that go for aggression I usually beat with ultras in the late game but terrans that simply get a fast 3rd with lots of liberators and tanks and just camps beat me every time. Again I cannot find any composition that works. It's so frustrating that when we both do the same thing, that is get 3-4 bases and units his just completely beats mine. I simply cannot attack a terran that has siege tanks and liberators and planetary fortresses and wall ins, missile turrets and proper sim city. Against turtle players, regardless of them being terrans and protoss I can't find any way to outplay them. The games are usually without any multitasking or real micro or macro or skill. We both just get everything we want, our armies clash and the other play wins. Please help, I'm gonna have to quit this game if I can't figure this out. Vs Terran it shouldnt be really be a problem. Your late game army is at least on par with his ANY comp. Broodlords > his ground. Vipers > his air. Vs Protoss though its much harder. A maxed protoss air army is unbeatable. So your goal is to not let him get there. | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On July 19 2016 11:11 cw wrote: are swarm hosts viable in any situation right now? the best use i can think of is poking down a turtler but i feel theyre so inefficient im not very good so would appreciate someones expert opinion making a couple of swarm hosts and harassing with them can work out really well if you play in a league/meta where you aren't going to be constantly hit by brutal timings that will exploit the investment (although just like muta tech you can compensate with spines etc) it's not very figured out, it can be good or just do nothing and cause you to die. on certain maps SH nydus against protoss or mech is quite strong. but honestly you can make 2 swarm hosts in any matchup and see what happens, you can certainly stop a lot of mining, kill some isolated buildings, etc. larger amounts of SH than 2-4 i would probably only ever ever make against terran mech | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
when do you get your upgrades? I've been doing that thing where I take 1 drone off gas after 18gas 17pool and then I got 150 gas around the time I plant my 3rd and get 2nd creep queen and then continue with 1/2 as my lair finishes. Except very often Terran just pushes on 0/0 with marine/tank/medivac and I straight up die. Anyone got some golden upgrade timings that aren't too greedy and can keep up with double engi bay? | ||
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MoosyDoosy
United States4519 Posts
On July 19 2016 22:37 insekt wrote: Hey guys. I'm struggling real bad, I've been in the same league and same mmr (diamond 2, 4100) for a really long time now and I just can't seem to improve. My problem is that I cannot beat turtle terrans and turtle protosses. Whenever I face say a protoss that just sits in his base, gets 3-4 bases and lots of voidrays and carriers and a mothership I try to fight his army but it always completely destroys mine. I usually go for hydralisks and I've also tried corrupters but nothing seems to work, the viper cloud ability does close to no damage. I just cannot find an opening for aggression or harass and then when we fight with maxed out armies, like I said, his destroys mine. Is there any zerg comp that can fight mass void ray carrier? How am I supposed to harass or outplay a protoss that turtles? Mutas aren't an option against air. With cannons and wall ins zergling runbys aren't an option. Drops don't work against a protoss with lots of cannons and voidrays. What the hell am I supposed to do?! Get the exact perfect composition against his and completely outmicro him in the 200/200 fight? That's unreasonable when the protoss doesn't really do anything but get 3-4 bases and lots of units. I have the same problem with terrans that turtle, usually with mech. Terrans that go for aggression I usually beat with ultras in the late game but terrans that simply get a fast 3rd with lots of liberators and tanks and just camps beat me every time. Again I cannot find any composition that works. It's so frustrating that when we both do the same thing, that is get 3-4 bases and units his just completely beats mine. I simply cannot attack a terran that has siege tanks and liberators and planetary fortresses and wall ins, missile turrets and proper sim city. Against turtle players, regardless of them being terrans and protoss I can't find any way to outplay them. The games are usually without any multitasking or real micro or macro or skill. We both just get everything we want, our armies clash and the other play wins. Please help, I'm gonna have to quit this game if I can't figure this out. Go for a Roach Ravager push and Ling Hydra push. When you attack, you really should have enough units to roll them over. If you somehow misengage and lose most of your units, settle with trading for the third and then regroup. Keep them from getting the third from there. Bases mine out super fast now so they'll run out of money fast. Remember to keep poking with your growing army to catch when they try to move out with Siege Tanks/Void Rays to grab a third. Also grab Overseers to spot high ground. Your problem is probably just engaging. Ravagers destroy turtle mech and you can just outproduce Protoss with Hydras should you kill the third. If you just don't have enough stuff, it means your macro is lacking. | ||
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
On July 19 2016 22:54 insekt wrote: @DERASTAT the problem thought is that I don't think it would work. Like I said, I think, I can't find an opening to do damage or kill them. They're turtling with siege tanks and liberators or cannons and stuff. So I can't attack into them. http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=88549409089417530973 http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=01725751562563350217 Two example games, one vs protoss, one vs terran. There are openings where I could do damage and possibly kill them early but I feel like finding those openings and properly taking advantage of them requires a ton more skill from me than it does from them. I feel like my punishes would have to be spot on, near perfect, Dark style to actually work. Watched ur reps. Pretty much what the guy above me said. Also, since you like to go lair fast, why don't you take speed overlord aswell ? Instead of making too much overseers, you could prevent him taking their expands by putting overlords with creeps. Against protoss, hydras alone sucks. You need support like lings or roaches (especially roaches since he had a few adepts. They suck pretty badly against roaches and they won't get the full damage from Void Ray because of your hydras behind them). You scouted him twice, first with slow overlord and that gave you no info (which I'd like to point out that you shouldn't have done that when there was a stalker on the edge of the base), and then with the overlord speed : You saw no gates. It was pretty clear that he was going for air. You can rush straight for hive and get some Viper supports with hydras and roaches. Viper for abducting the Mothership core. And why not, carriers aswell, but you really need to micro so that the hydras are fully focusing the carriers and not the interceptors. Against terran, again speed overlords would've helped you delaying his expands. Even if he went fast liberators, it takes a lot of hits to kill an overlord. Just send them everywhere on the map and you can see what he's doing. If you want to keep making those melee units, at least make 1 spore for every base. You saw that he had a lot of liberators at the end. There were so many times where they were clumped. And what's the best unit against it ? Yeah infestors and fungal (and ravagers which would be the dream, but you went full melee with corruptors. Which is perfectly fine). At your level, I'm pretty sure you could've caught him offguard and straight killed him. Tbh, I stopped using banes or lings / banes, and went for roaches ravagers simply because of those retarded liberators units. I'd just upgrade them once and then go for melee upgrades for lings roaches ravagers infestors ultras. Later, maybe use banes (a la Nerchio). | ||
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insekt
3 Posts
I need to try roach ravager ling pushes, haven't ever done those before. Also I'll try getting overlord speed and maybe ling drops? @RaiZ I didn't see any gates but I hadn't seen most of his base either. He could've gone for a lot of gates, I didn't know. | ||
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
On July 21 2016 07:18 insekt wrote: Thanks a lot for the answers guys! I need to try roach ravager ling pushes, haven't ever done those before. Also I'll try getting overlord speed and maybe ling drops? @RaiZ I didn't see any gates but I hadn't seen most of his base either. He could've gone for a lot of gates, I didn't know. The 2nd overlord saw a lot of his base though. Unless he built the gates on the edges of his bases. But in my like 15+ thousands of games, I've hardly seen any protoss doing that. You can try that push but only against protoss. Against terran, they're mostly for defense. That is until you can get either infestors or ultras. | ||
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Ronaldoz
6 Posts
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
On July 22 2016 03:30 Ronaldoz wrote: Are there also more well known builds? I like these ones and can't even do 1 of them perfectly, but I'm using the ZvT Mech / Bio all the time. Also vs Zerg / Protoss, till I can do it 'perfectly'. I assume you just started playing sc2, so I'll give you a general idea of what you should do : Just make hatch first with the 17th 18th 19th drone, then follow it with gas and pool. Pretty much ALL the games start with that with a slight variation like pool first, but in the end it's the same build. You can't really do it "perfectly" because it all depends on what's the opponent is doing. Unless you mean the very start of the build order. Beware of ZvZ though, because Hatch first can leads to difficult decisions against aggressives openers. If you're facing a lot of them, just build a pool first and put your first 2 overlords to the paths where you can see their lings coming and then cancel / make your expand. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
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Railgan
Switzerland1507 Posts
On July 23 2016 10:03 Erasme wrote: whats the point of doing anything else than roach/ravager ? in any match up they seem to be unstoppable. Better Players are able to stop that composition. | ||
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
Does it happen to you ? OCD include : - Synchro queens energy : I'd wait my other queens to have ~20 energy before making another queen. - Tumors : If they're not on the edge of the creep, I'd cancel them and properly do them (unless I missclick again thanks to my old mousepad). - Drones : I feel like it's sort of justified. I'd make it so that on my main there is always 2 drones per patch and not 3 or 1. Thing is whenever I'm getting harrassed by say, adepts or reapers, it fucks me up and I'd make sure they're perfectly doing their work - And last but not least : I'd micro the f.ck out of my army and completly forget to macro behind... I can't fucking get back to Master again and it's really pissing me off because I end the game up with like at least 2-3k in the bank whether I'm winning or losing the game. Please halp >_< | ||
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