• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:50
CEST 17:50
KST 00:50
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week5[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles6[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China10Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL70
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread TL Team Map Contest #4: Winners Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster Server Blocker RSL Season 1 - Final Week
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone BW General Discussion Script to open stream directly using middle click ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
2025 ACS Season 2 Qualifier [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 Last Minute Live-Report Thread Resource!
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5 Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Accidental Video Game Porn Archive Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 694 users

The LotV Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 68

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 66 67 68 69 70 75 Next
Ben...
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada3485 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-01-14 03:10:49
January 14 2019 03:09 GMT
#1341
How do you all handle "those" terrans? You know the ones. They have one heavily practiced build, usually a 2 base all-in that's different than any other similar terran's 2 base all in, and they do it every single game. It either works or it doesn't, and the majority of their wins come from their opponent just not having seen it before and if it's held off they lose 90% of the time because they don't know how to transition at all.

I just faced a terran who did a 2 base mass marine, hellbat, mine all-in with two tanks and a random thor(?). I did a stargate opening and just scouted it as being normal mech opening (they kinda hid the barracks). Having seen it, it'd be easy to hold off with storm/immortal/archon. I just got blind-sided by it.

I don't put a lot of thought into these losses usually because it's ladder, there's no way to know it's coming, and I'm never gonna see this again, but it can be frustrating.
"Cliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide" -Tastosis
insitelol
Profile Joined August 2012
845 Posts
January 14 2019 08:06 GMT
#1342
Nothing to do about it really. It's frustrating as fck, but you can't really rely on the one and only "correct" response to that, because as you said, there is infinite amout of that terran bullshit, you just can't tell what's coming your way. My answer is: never drastically adjust your BO on the fly if you suspect that stuff. In my case i just have a rule: 2+ factories->start immortal production with some archon/chargelot in mind for the mid/late game (given im a stalker/colosi player), that's it. And an early sentry helps a lot these days.

p.s. 2base allins are not THAT annoying tbh, it's much more confusing when they start that proxy reaper(marauder? marines?)+factory (in the main? on the map?) with (late) natural (?) into macro (?) (proxy starport?) into mech (?) into battlecruisers (?) stuff.

I don't want to sound like a whiner here, but whatching even serral look like a bronze player while trying to defend inno's proxy barracks (twice) makes me wonder... may be cheeses (from all races) are a bit (just a bit) overtuned. You know, Has runs... sOs vs Maru.., etc etc. From a viewers perspective its definitely a good thing though (i guess).
Less is more.
Tempest
Profile Joined October 2015
United States147 Posts
January 15 2019 14:14 GMT
#1343
On January 14 2019 12:09 Ben... wrote:
How do you all handle "those" terrans? You know the ones. They have one heavily practiced build, usually a 2 base all-in that's different than any other similar terran's 2 base all in, and they do it every single game. It either works or it doesn't, and the majority of their wins come from their opponent just not having seen it before and if it's held off they lose 90% of the time because they don't know how to transition at all.

I just faced a terran who did a 2 base mass marine, hellbat, mine all-in with two tanks and a random thor(?). I did a stargate opening and just scouted it as being normal mech opening (they kinda hid the barracks). Having seen it, it'd be easy to hold off with storm/immortal/archon. I just got blind-sided by it.

I don't put a lot of thought into these losses usually because it's ladder, there's no way to know it's coming, and I'm never gonna see this again, but it can be frustrating.


At the moment, the most common 2 base builds are the marine tank banshee push (sometimes with bunkers) that usually hits around 6 minutes, and proxy 1-1-1. I would recommend fine-tuning your defense of these 2 builds as they are the most common, and generally most 2 base all-ins will be variants of those, so it will need little adjusting.

The thing is, most of these builds are designed to punish a toss going for a fast third. If you scout tech lab on the starport and factory and reactor on the barracks, it will 99% be this build. You can:

A) cancel the third, chrono immortals/obs and place down shield batteries.

B) start researching charge before blink (not sure if this is actually good, because if the terran goes for drops instead youre at a severe disadvantage, and nobody likes coinflifps) and get really good at defending banshees with stalkers.

C) Open stargate which is a bit harder than robo openers in general, but if youre good at it will help you hold easier and places more pressure on the terran to micro correctly in order for the push to work.

This video is very long, but the only parts you need to watch are the first 2 matches. Its showtime vs Demuslim and it showcases his response to the two mentioned builds. Plot twist: he loses one of the matches, and the one he wins relies on godly warp prism micro and game sense. On the plus side, your terran opponent is also likely to not be as good as demuslim.

Quick, think of some pithy cliche and toss it here
insitelol
Profile Joined August 2012
845 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-01-16 06:26:18
January 16 2019 06:24 GMT
#1344
I watched the games, and i'd say that knowing that my opponent is not demuslim won't help me, because he showed nothing exeptional. While me not being showtime would definitely hurt. Because his awareness, unit control and (that is most important) descision making was perfect (at least in the first game). And SG choice didn't impress me at all. What unit exactly do we need to defend that? Oracles insta die to cyclones. Phoenixes melt to marines...

I dunno. I'm convinced it's not supposed to work like that. Terran has way too many units with insane early game agressive capabilities. Combined with bunkers and turrets on small maps... Meh. I know they felt the same about Void rushes back in the days but i'm not supporting that either. My guess is that bringing back tank upgrade won't hurt at all. Or just fcking delete cyclone.
Less is more.
Ben...
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada3485 Posts
January 16 2019 18:26 GMT
#1345
Yeah, I was more talking about weird one-off gimmick builds than the standard 2 base all-ins (I open Stargate these days going for an oracle into phoenix and charge, which usually can comfortably handle most of the marine/tank related all-ins). It's not like most of these builds are even good, it's more that I'm just not prepared for it because I've never seen it before.
"Cliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide" -Tastosis
ScarPe
Profile Joined January 2010
Germany392 Posts
January 16 2019 20:52 GMT
#1346
well i cant really do it myself yet but i think the keys are
1) keep oracle alive. its better to have it up still than killing 4 scvs and let it die. revelation and stasis are too good.
2) you can go up to 3 phoenixes, use them to scout and keep them to defend your base from dropships at your main.
if he dosent drop, use phoenix to lift tanks. make sure you come from another angle than your mainarmy.

keep in mind. those ladder all-in builds are do or die.

Awaken my child and embrace the glory that is your birthright. -[The Overmind]
Tempest
Profile Joined October 2015
United States147 Posts
January 17 2019 15:59 GMT
#1347
On January 16 2019 15:24 insitelol wrote:
I watched the games, and i'd say that knowing that my opponent is not demuslim won't help me, because he showed nothing exeptional. While me not being showtime would definitely hurt. Because his awareness, unit control and (that is most important) descision making was perfect (at least in the first game). And SG choice didn't impress me at all. What unit exactly do we need to defend that? Oracles insta die to cyclones. Phoenixes melt to marines...

I dunno. I'm convinced it's not supposed to work like that. Terran has way too many units with insane early game agressive capabilities. Combined with bunkers and turrets on small maps... Meh. I know they felt the same about Void rushes back in the days but i'm not supporting that either. My guess is that bringing back tank upgrade won't hurt at all. Or just fcking delete cyclone.


I think most of the time to defend this with SG, you rely more on the gateway units to pick off a few of the enemy units before throwing your SG units in there, unless its tanks then I think the correct move is to immediately lift while engaging. But don't throw the oracle in there right away until you've picked off a few of the marines, etc. Also, a nifty thing (I struggle to do it reliably) that some people do is if theres widow mines, they'll sac a phoenix or oracle to draw the widow mine target, then fly over enemy marines to kill them with the splash damage. It just requires crazy good amount of unit control that I lack, so I rely on robo openers. It took me like 10 practice games before I felt comfortable enough to hold these types of aggressive pushes more than 50 percent of the time.

Something one of my T practice partners pointed out, is that super often when the T sieges his tanks outside the natural, they aren't quite yet in a fantastic position to target anything important, but Toss players(myself included at first) will rush out to fight them immediately and throw away army. He pointed out that the extra time to let Shield batteries finish, chrono out another immortal, or get another warp in while only losing like a pylon or so and be better prepared will help a lot by the time the tanks are able to actually deal decent DPS to a nexus or something. Just something to try, it helped me a lot.


On January 17 2019 03:26 Ben... wrote:
Yeah, I was more talking about weird one-off gimmick builds than the standard 2 base all-ins (I open Stargate these days going for an oracle into phoenix and charge, which usually can comfortably handle most of the marine/tank related all-ins). It's not like most of these builds are even good, it's more that I'm just not prepared for it because I've never seen it before.


Gotcha, my bad. In all honesty, I don't know if its worth worrying about if you only see them a few times ever. Its like worrying about how to defend a proxy thor (which I did for a little bit) when literally nobody except for 1 person in diamond 2 does that build lol. You probably already look at it like this though.
Quick, think of some pithy cliche and toss it here
StaNi
Profile Joined June 2011
Ukraine54 Posts
February 05 2019 22:10 GMT
#1348
Can you name top lvl aggressive protoss players? By aggressive, I mean those who play the first number, impose their game, as it plays from themselves. If he sees the opportunity to finish the game here and now, he does it, and not like most toss players who try to go out into the macro and win there. As I understand, in Korea her0 can be attributed to those, who else? If you take out of Korea, then we have 2 high lvl protoss players - ShowTime and Neeb. The first one is exactly passive, he plays from an opponent, but what about an American? Sorry for my English =\
insitelol
Profile Joined August 2012
845 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-02-06 06:10:45
February 06 2019 06:10 GMT
#1349
On February 06 2019 07:10 StaNi wrote:
Can you name top lvl aggressive protoss players? By aggressive, I mean those who play the first number, impose their game, as it plays from themselves. If he sees the opportunity to finish the game here and now, he does it, and not like most toss players who try to go out into the macro and win there. As I understand, in Korea her0 can be attributed to those, who else? If you take out of Korea, then we have 2 high lvl protoss players - ShowTime and Neeb. The first one is exactly passive, he plays from an opponent, but what about an American? Sorry for my English =\

Parting is the only one who comes to mind (in Korea). The thing about korea overall is that the scene there is basically dead. No freshblood since 2012. Neeb is just a very solid player overall. He mixes macro games with some agressive plays (allins, proxies, constant prism harass) every now and then.
Less is more.
Ben...
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada3485 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-02-10 02:52:19
February 10 2019 02:08 GMT
#1350
What is the correct response to those bizarre ravager/queen rushes where they literally walk 6ish queens across the map with some ravagers? We saw it in GSL I wanna say. I've faced it a couple times. It's really strong if they don't mess up transfuses.

edit: And I found what I find to be one of the funnier "do this build or die" terrans. There's a terran I've played several times that does this identical build every time and it's so bad but it's hilarious in its' specificity. It's a 2 base 6-8 tank mech push at like 9-10 minutes with hellbats and double reactored vikings (I mean A TON of vikings). My guess is the gimmick is he gains air control and then just slowly kills the protoss with the 6 tanks and hellbats since it's so hard to kill that composition on the ground. The first time I saw it I just figured it was mech but then accidentally built a couple carriers instead of tempests and happened to hold it off thanks to the carriers (and him attacking into shield batteries) and then he was just dead for 10 minutes until he left. The rest of the games I've just gone double stargate phoenix with early upgrades into carriers (after double expanding because he never does harrass so I can take 6 gases immediately). Every game he does this and then when I kill his push with carriers and tempests he balance whines.

This was what I meant above when I was talking about "those" terrans. The one trick pony terrans. They're hilarious!
"Cliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide" -Tastosis
AusProbe
Profile Joined July 2012
Australia235 Posts
February 10 2019 08:41 GMT
#1351
The general method is to chronoboost out immortals and spam shield batteries.
Ben...
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada3485 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-02-11 02:49:05
February 11 2019 02:48 GMT
#1352
Ah, I had opened stargate and my robo was just finishing when I saw it coming so I promptly died. That makes more sense. Stargate units seemed useless against it.

Thanks!
"Cliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide" -Tastosis
AusProbe
Profile Joined July 2012
Australia235 Posts
February 11 2019 05:10 GMT
#1353
Even if you open SG your robos should be in time. SG units are pretty useful, with stasis and oracles dealing with ravagers if there are no queens, or they are too slow.
Tempest
Profile Joined October 2015
United States147 Posts
February 11 2019 16:24 GMT
#1354
On February 11 2019 11:48 Ben... wrote:
Ah, I had opened stargate and my robo was just finishing when I saw it coming so I promptly died. That makes more sense. Stargate units seemed useless against it.

Thanks!


Often times Bly and SOMETIMES namshar will do this build against showtime on stream. Showtime will usually be playing double stargate into double robo which has a fairly low gateway count I think. He (obviously) has really good unit control, but I would recommend watching a few of those games if you get the chance to see how he approaches the defense of it.
Quick, think of some pithy cliche and toss it here
ssregitoss
Profile Joined September 2004
Turkey241 Posts
February 14 2019 19:04 GMT
#1355
best response to tank marine 2 base all ins still colossis play.
Tempest
Profile Joined October 2015
United States147 Posts
February 14 2019 19:32 GMT
#1356
On February 15 2019 04:04 ssregitoss wrote:
best response to tank marine 2 base all ins still colossis play.


I invite you to post a replay where you pull that off, cause I wholeheartedly disagree lol
Quick, think of some pithy cliche and toss it here
CongressmanT1
Profile Joined February 2019
1 Post
Last Edited: 2019-02-15 00:48:35
February 15 2019 00:46 GMT
#1357
On February 06 2019 07:10 StaNi wrote:
Can you name top lvl aggressive protoss players? By aggressive, I mean those who play the first number, impose their game, as it plays from themselves. If he sees the opportunity to finish the game here and now, he does it, and not like most toss players who try to go out into the macro and win there. As I understand, in Korea her0 can be attributed to those, who else? If you take out of Korea, then we have 2 high lvl protoss players - ShowTime and Neeb. The first one is exactly passive, he plays from an opponent, but what about an American? Sorry for my English =\


Has is a well known early game aggressive protoss player. He will usually cheese or do all in's at a very high level. Check out his 2018 WCS Valencia games on Youtube!
Ben...
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada3485 Posts
February 15 2019 16:36 GMT
#1358
On February 15 2019 04:32 Tempest wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2019 04:04 ssregitoss wrote:
best response to tank marine 2 base all ins still colossis play.


I invite you to post a replay where you pull that off, cause I wholeheartedly disagree lol

Yup. If there's banshees, colossus might work, but if it's a raven with the marine/tank, then colossus is useless since it'll just get disabled. I'm watching Stats' stream, and this exact thing literally just happened to him. He got hit with a slightly slower marine/tank/raven attack and the raven disabled 3 colossi and he basically got walked over from there.
"Cliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide" -Tastosis
Tempest
Profile Joined October 2015
United States147 Posts
February 15 2019 16:59 GMT
#1359
On February 16 2019 01:36 Ben... wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2019 04:32 Tempest wrote:
On February 15 2019 04:04 ssregitoss wrote:
best response to tank marine 2 base all ins still colossis play.


I invite you to post a replay where you pull that off, cause I wholeheartedly disagree lol

Yup. If there's banshees, colossus might work, but if it's a raven with the marine/tank, then colossus is useless since it'll just get disabled. I'm watching Stats' stream, and this exact thing literally just happened to him. He got hit with a slightly slower marine/tank/raven attack and the raven disabled 3 colossi and he basically got walked over from there.


Exactly. Most of the 2 base timings/all ins hit around 6 minutes, and the colossus count at that point CAN be high enough but its pretty hard to pull off. Im finding pretty good success with sentry as second unit for hallucination scout, and if I scout the build I cancel blink and chrono charge. it works marvelously, as the hallucination scout usually confirms build right as or right after the twilight finishes. Going twilight before robo tho.
Quick, think of some pithy cliche and toss it here
Ben...
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada3485 Posts
February 17 2019 16:55 GMT
#1360
I saw an interesting iteration of Stats' defence against the marine/tank raven push on his stream today. He went colossus, but also went archives for one high templar in a warp prism to feedback the raven. With it, he held the push easily.
"Cliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide" -Tastosis
Prev 1 66 67 68 69 70 75 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Hui .200
StarCraft: Brood War
EffOrt 1082
firebathero 646
Light 465
Stork 452
Larva 325
PianO 229
ToSsGirL 163
soO 117
Movie 108
Dewaltoss 82
[ Show more ]
Mind 53
sSak 53
Shinee 48
JulyZerg 41
Barracks 39
sorry 38
Terrorterran 26
HiyA 23
Rock 17
Stormgate
NightEnD18
Dota 2
Gorgc7850
qojqva2492
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
flusha432
oskar357
fl0m308
kRYSTAL_1
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor634
Other Games
gofns18499
FrodaN7081
singsing2584
B2W.Neo1519
shahzam702
Fuzer 348
Lowko345
KnowMe240
Trikslyr53
ROOTCatZ1
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick42724
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 2195
Other Games
EGCTV1357
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 81
• poizon28 17
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis5741
Upcoming Events
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
5m
FEL
10m
Gerald vs PAPI
Spirit vs ArT
CranKy Ducklings0
CSO Cup
10m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2h 10m
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
DaveTesta Events
2h 10m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
18h 10m
RSL Revival
18h 10m
Classic vs Clem
FEL
23h 10m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 2h
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Wardi Open
1d 19h
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV European League
3 days
PiGosaur Monday
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Epic.LAN
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Epic.LAN
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
HSC XXVII
NC Random Cup

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.