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On October 19 2018 02:48 Tempest wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2018 18:57 SartPls wrote:On October 17 2018 20:38 ArtyK wrote:Heres a replay vs the cannons-in-your-face version https://drop.sc/replay/8675029I didn't check my natural before the 2nd gate, which was a mistake, but the early enemy probe was suspicious enough so I chased it, and only reacted to their pylon when I saw their second probe. I forgot to mention that I usually cancel the 2nd gate for the defense, so I'm able to afford zealot + cyber as soon as the first gate finishes... another mistake in the replay, as I canceled the gate but made the cyber 3 hours later and got supply blocked :D But denying the cannons and ignoring pylons was enough. The followup 4 gate was just taking advantage of their late warpgate. If they tried something like expand behind mass cannons instead, you'd want a robo for a warp prism to blink and warp in their main. vs early pools you don't finish your wall but you want something to protect your pylon and prevent lings from getting into your main. Closing the wall so early is too expensive and they will attack it to force a cancel anyway, while you get 0 damage on the lings. It delays your build a ton and makes the probe pull much less effective as you have to funnel your probes in the choke if you even want to prevent the lings from cancelling your building. Replay vs 12 pool hatch : https://drop.sc/replay/8675031I have no clue why I pulled so few probes to defend, AND I got 22/23 supply blocked delaying my 2nd zealot... don't do this at home. My double 1x1 wall saved my first zealot though, so I got lucky there for sure. But as you see once I defended, I have 21 probes to 13 drones, nexus finished and warpgate started. Then because I knew it was a 12 pool expand with late gas, I'm comfortable moving out to force units and kill drones with the first adept and zealots. If it was early gas-pool I would have reinforced my wall and added a shield battery at least. vs random start a pylon and gate at the top of your main ramp. If you scout protoss you can continue normally with a second gate in your wall, or vs terran, with the usual nexus and then cyber out of the wall. If it's a zerg going hatch first you just place your second pylon at the natural, you will still be able to wall before their ling speed kicks in. If they early pool with no gas you can do the same defense as in the replay above, so you won't delay your nexus even if the only building at your natural is the 2nd pylon. I have no experience in this situation vs early gas-pool, but walling before they get ling speed or banes is probably too risky, it'll probably be more wise to one base yourself, or delay the nexus for a while at least. This was amazing, thank you so much. Now I've got 2 more questions, then I promise I'll stop :D 2) Since we covered the "offensive cheese", let's get a question about economic cheese as well  I know it's not an actual thing (or at least shouldn't, but everything's a thing on the ladder), but how do you react properly to something like a Nexus first in PvP? Or to a lesser extent, a 1 Gate FE? Do you just hit 'em with the good ol' 4 Gate? Or drop your own Nexus asap and play your standard game? If they go nexus first, you can abuse it by opening 2x adept. You will murder all of their probes. Theoretically a 4 gate should win as well, even if they have the shield batteries and a few units, unless you mess up something drastically. 3 gate stalker with prism showcased here https://old.reddit.com/r/allthingsprotoss/comments/8ku6k9/build_of_the_week_pvp_manas_3gate_warp_prism_allin/is an auto win even if they have an immediate immortal followup. For a while I was obsessed with trying to find a way to economically cheese in PvP, and for now I just don't think its possible. at the time I was a 3500 asking my 3900 buddy to cheese economically (1 gate fe) and I beat him every time with adept pressure into 4 gate or 3 gate blink stalker. Your opponent would have to be SIGNIFICANTLY better than you for them to successfully pull off a fast expand, in which case you shouldn't feel bad anyways. a decently put together 4 gate should be the easiest (and probably best) response to economic cheese in PvP.
This is not true. Nexus first does not die to 2 adepts (also 1gate FE is actually riskier than nexus first imo, it's much safer to have two gates which you do after a nexus first and the units come out at a decent time). It's actually very hard to reactively kill a Nexus first, and actually by opening adepts you lose any stalker advantage and they can pop out enough immortals, stalkers and batteries to hold. There was a time where I did Nexus first primarily in PvP and had almost 100% win rate at GM level, the main reason I stopped was not the allins but more the fact that you're forced to go robo to be safe which means stargate (both double oracle and phoenix) get extremely good map control and potential for damage. Since SG builds are so common, it takes away a lot of the advantage of going Nexus first. The 4gates / 3 gate blink stalkers are not that hard to hold, and a lot of the time you open nexus first to try and bait them into an allin, in which case they won't go SG.
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On October 19 2018 07:24 blooblooblahblah wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2018 02:48 Tempest wrote:On October 18 2018 18:57 SartPls wrote:On October 17 2018 20:38 ArtyK wrote:Heres a replay vs the cannons-in-your-face version https://drop.sc/replay/8675029I didn't check my natural before the 2nd gate, which was a mistake, but the early enemy probe was suspicious enough so I chased it, and only reacted to their pylon when I saw their second probe. I forgot to mention that I usually cancel the 2nd gate for the defense, so I'm able to afford zealot + cyber as soon as the first gate finishes... another mistake in the replay, as I canceled the gate but made the cyber 3 hours later and got supply blocked :D But denying the cannons and ignoring pylons was enough. The followup 4 gate was just taking advantage of their late warpgate. If they tried something like expand behind mass cannons instead, you'd want a robo for a warp prism to blink and warp in their main. vs early pools you don't finish your wall but you want something to protect your pylon and prevent lings from getting into your main. Closing the wall so early is too expensive and they will attack it to force a cancel anyway, while you get 0 damage on the lings. It delays your build a ton and makes the probe pull much less effective as you have to funnel your probes in the choke if you even want to prevent the lings from cancelling your building. Replay vs 12 pool hatch : https://drop.sc/replay/8675031I have no clue why I pulled so few probes to defend, AND I got 22/23 supply blocked delaying my 2nd zealot... don't do this at home. My double 1x1 wall saved my first zealot though, so I got lucky there for sure. But as you see once I defended, I have 21 probes to 13 drones, nexus finished and warpgate started. Then because I knew it was a 12 pool expand with late gas, I'm comfortable moving out to force units and kill drones with the first adept and zealots. If it was early gas-pool I would have reinforced my wall and added a shield battery at least. vs random start a pylon and gate at the top of your main ramp. If you scout protoss you can continue normally with a second gate in your wall, or vs terran, with the usual nexus and then cyber out of the wall. If it's a zerg going hatch first you just place your second pylon at the natural, you will still be able to wall before their ling speed kicks in. If they early pool with no gas you can do the same defense as in the replay above, so you won't delay your nexus even if the only building at your natural is the 2nd pylon. I have no experience in this situation vs early gas-pool, but walling before they get ling speed or banes is probably too risky, it'll probably be more wise to one base yourself, or delay the nexus for a while at least. This was amazing, thank you so much. Now I've got 2 more questions, then I promise I'll stop :D 2) Since we covered the "offensive cheese", let's get a question about economic cheese as well I know it's not an actual thing (or at least shouldn't, but everything's a thing on the ladder), but how do you react properly to something like a Nexus first in PvP? Or to a lesser extent, a 1 Gate FE? Do you just hit 'em with the good ol' 4 Gate? Or drop your own Nexus asap and play your standard game? If they go nexus first, you can abuse it by opening 2x adept. You will murder all of their probes. Theoretically a 4 gate should win as well, even if they have the shield batteries and a few units, unless you mess up something drastically. 3 gate stalker with prism showcased here https://old.reddit.com/r/allthingsprotoss/comments/8ku6k9/build_of_the_week_pvp_manas_3gate_warp_prism_allin/is an auto win even if they have an immediate immortal followup. For a while I was obsessed with trying to find a way to economically cheese in PvP, and for now I just don't think its possible. at the time I was a 3500 asking my 3900 buddy to cheese economically (1 gate fe) and I beat him every time with adept pressure into 4 gate or 3 gate blink stalker. Your opponent would have to be SIGNIFICANTLY better than you for them to successfully pull off a fast expand, in which case you shouldn't feel bad anyways. a decently put together 4 gate should be the easiest (and probably best) response to economic cheese in PvP. This is not true. Nexus first does not die to 2 adepts (also 1gate FE is actually riskier than nexus first imo, it's much safer to have two gates which you do after a nexus first and the units come out at a decent time). It's actually very hard to reactively kill a Nexus first, and actually by opening adepts you lose any stalker advantage and they can pop out enough immortals, stalkers and batteries to hold. There was a time where I did Nexus first primarily in PvP and had almost 100% win rate at GM level, the main reason I stopped was not the allins but more the fact that you're forced to go robo to be safe which means stargate (both double oracle and phoenix) get extremely good map control and potential for damage. Since SG builds are so common, it takes away a lot of the advantage of going Nexus first. The 4gates / 3 gate blink stalkers are not that hard to hold, and a lot of the time you open nexus first to try and bait them into an allin, in which case they won't go SG.
If you play at a GM level then ill defer to your experience, but im pretty close to calling shenanigans. Granted all my testing was done against 1 gate FE not nexus first, and ill have to go check timings to make sure, but if muh maths are right, there is no way you get out units to defend the 2x adept in time, and you wont be able to pylon block the shades at a natural ramp anywhere near as easy as a main ramp. How does Nexus first NOT die to it? In case I wasn't clear, the adepts aren't targeting the nexus, theyre hitting the juicy workers(don't think its necessary to point this out, but in this case ill do it). You lose your economic lead so you cant get the army supply lead to defend the all in, and theres no way youre getting immortals and shield batteries in enough quantity to defend the early adept pressure and then 11 stalkers and a warp prism at 4:40 AFTER going nexus first. Its hard enough to defend against that going defensive robo with no expand.
Also near 100% pvp winrate at GM level using any build is incredibly hard to believe, let alone going nexus first. Like I said, if you really did all this then fantastic, I apologize for doubting you and ill ask your forgiveness, but after those claims and my own extensive testing on this, coupled with a thorough understanding of the matchup, im inclined to say youre talking out ya booty and are theorycrafting with bad math at best.
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On October 19 2018 22:32 Tempest wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2018 07:24 blooblooblahblah wrote:On October 19 2018 02:48 Tempest wrote:On October 18 2018 18:57 SartPls wrote:On October 17 2018 20:38 ArtyK wrote:Heres a replay vs the cannons-in-your-face version https://drop.sc/replay/8675029I didn't check my natural before the 2nd gate, which was a mistake, but the early enemy probe was suspicious enough so I chased it, and only reacted to their pylon when I saw their second probe. I forgot to mention that I usually cancel the 2nd gate for the defense, so I'm able to afford zealot + cyber as soon as the first gate finishes... another mistake in the replay, as I canceled the gate but made the cyber 3 hours later and got supply blocked :D But denying the cannons and ignoring pylons was enough. The followup 4 gate was just taking advantage of their late warpgate. If they tried something like expand behind mass cannons instead, you'd want a robo for a warp prism to blink and warp in their main. vs early pools you don't finish your wall but you want something to protect your pylon and prevent lings from getting into your main. Closing the wall so early is too expensive and they will attack it to force a cancel anyway, while you get 0 damage on the lings. It delays your build a ton and makes the probe pull much less effective as you have to funnel your probes in the choke if you even want to prevent the lings from cancelling your building. Replay vs 12 pool hatch : https://drop.sc/replay/8675031I have no clue why I pulled so few probes to defend, AND I got 22/23 supply blocked delaying my 2nd zealot... don't do this at home. My double 1x1 wall saved my first zealot though, so I got lucky there for sure. But as you see once I defended, I have 21 probes to 13 drones, nexus finished and warpgate started. Then because I knew it was a 12 pool expand with late gas, I'm comfortable moving out to force units and kill drones with the first adept and zealots. If it was early gas-pool I would have reinforced my wall and added a shield battery at least. vs random start a pylon and gate at the top of your main ramp. If you scout protoss you can continue normally with a second gate in your wall, or vs terran, with the usual nexus and then cyber out of the wall. If it's a zerg going hatch first you just place your second pylon at the natural, you will still be able to wall before their ling speed kicks in. If they early pool with no gas you can do the same defense as in the replay above, so you won't delay your nexus even if the only building at your natural is the 2nd pylon. I have no experience in this situation vs early gas-pool, but walling before they get ling speed or banes is probably too risky, it'll probably be more wise to one base yourself, or delay the nexus for a while at least. This was amazing, thank you so much. Now I've got 2 more questions, then I promise I'll stop :D 2) Since we covered the "offensive cheese", let's get a question about economic cheese as well I know it's not an actual thing (or at least shouldn't, but everything's a thing on the ladder), but how do you react properly to something like a Nexus first in PvP? Or to a lesser extent, a 1 Gate FE? Do you just hit 'em with the good ol' 4 Gate? Or drop your own Nexus asap and play your standard game? If they go nexus first, you can abuse it by opening 2x adept. You will murder all of their probes. Theoretically a 4 gate should win as well, even if they have the shield batteries and a few units, unless you mess up something drastically. 3 gate stalker with prism showcased here https://old.reddit.com/r/allthingsprotoss/comments/8ku6k9/build_of_the_week_pvp_manas_3gate_warp_prism_allin/is an auto win even if they have an immediate immortal followup. For a while I was obsessed with trying to find a way to economically cheese in PvP, and for now I just don't think its possible. at the time I was a 3500 asking my 3900 buddy to cheese economically (1 gate fe) and I beat him every time with adept pressure into 4 gate or 3 gate blink stalker. Your opponent would have to be SIGNIFICANTLY better than you for them to successfully pull off a fast expand, in which case you shouldn't feel bad anyways. a decently put together 4 gate should be the easiest (and probably best) response to economic cheese in PvP. This is not true. Nexus first does not die to 2 adepts (also 1gate FE is actually riskier than nexus first imo, it's much safer to have two gates which you do after a nexus first and the units come out at a decent time). It's actually very hard to reactively kill a Nexus first, and actually by opening adepts you lose any stalker advantage and they can pop out enough immortals, stalkers and batteries to hold. There was a time where I did Nexus first primarily in PvP and had almost 100% win rate at GM level, the main reason I stopped was not the allins but more the fact that you're forced to go robo to be safe which means stargate (both double oracle and phoenix) get extremely good map control and potential for damage. Since SG builds are so common, it takes away a lot of the advantage of going Nexus first. The 4gates / 3 gate blink stalkers are not that hard to hold, and a lot of the time you open nexus first to try and bait them into an allin, in which case they won't go SG. If you play at a GM level then ill defer to your experience, but im pretty close to calling shenanigans. Granted all my testing was done against 1 gate FE not nexus first, and ill have to go check timings to make sure, but if muh maths are right, there is no way you get out units to defend the 2x adept in time, and you wont be able to pylon block the shades at a natural ramp anywhere near as easy as a main ramp. How does Nexus first NOT die to it? In case I wasn't clear, the adepts aren't targeting the nexus, theyre hitting the juicy workers(don't think its necessary to point this out, but in this case ill do it). You lose your economic lead so you cant get the army supply lead to defend the all in, and theres no way youre getting immortals and shield batteries in enough quantity to defend the early adept pressure and then 11 stalkers and a warp prism at 4:40 AFTER going nexus first. Its hard enough to defend against that going defensive robo with no expand. Also near 100% pvp winrate at GM level using any build is incredibly hard to believe, let alone going nexus first. Like I said, if you really did all this then fantastic, I apologize for doubting you and ill ask your forgiveness, but after those claims and my own extensive testing on this, coupled with a thorough understanding of the matchup, im inclined to say youre talking out ya booty and are theorycrafting with bad math at best.
You must have forgotten how long it takes to go across the map in your maths then, because with nexus first your units still pop just in time for the first 2 adepts. You still wall high ground to be able to battery block. It's not like adepts are threatening to your low grow nexus. The weakness isn't necessarily the very first enemy units but the fact that you're forced into very fast immortal and battery to not outright die, it's just not flexible.
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On October 19 2018 22:50 ArtyK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2018 22:32 Tempest wrote:On October 19 2018 07:24 blooblooblahblah wrote:On October 19 2018 02:48 Tempest wrote:On October 18 2018 18:57 SartPls wrote:On October 17 2018 20:38 ArtyK wrote:Heres a replay vs the cannons-in-your-face version https://drop.sc/replay/8675029I didn't check my natural before the 2nd gate, which was a mistake, but the early enemy probe was suspicious enough so I chased it, and only reacted to their pylon when I saw their second probe. I forgot to mention that I usually cancel the 2nd gate for the defense, so I'm able to afford zealot + cyber as soon as the first gate finishes... another mistake in the replay, as I canceled the gate but made the cyber 3 hours later and got supply blocked :D But denying the cannons and ignoring pylons was enough. The followup 4 gate was just taking advantage of their late warpgate. If they tried something like expand behind mass cannons instead, you'd want a robo for a warp prism to blink and warp in their main. vs early pools you don't finish your wall but you want something to protect your pylon and prevent lings from getting into your main. Closing the wall so early is too expensive and they will attack it to force a cancel anyway, while you get 0 damage on the lings. It delays your build a ton and makes the probe pull much less effective as you have to funnel your probes in the choke if you even want to prevent the lings from cancelling your building. Replay vs 12 pool hatch : https://drop.sc/replay/8675031I have no clue why I pulled so few probes to defend, AND I got 22/23 supply blocked delaying my 2nd zealot... don't do this at home. My double 1x1 wall saved my first zealot though, so I got lucky there for sure. But as you see once I defended, I have 21 probes to 13 drones, nexus finished and warpgate started. Then because I knew it was a 12 pool expand with late gas, I'm comfortable moving out to force units and kill drones with the first adept and zealots. If it was early gas-pool I would have reinforced my wall and added a shield battery at least. vs random start a pylon and gate at the top of your main ramp. If you scout protoss you can continue normally with a second gate in your wall, or vs terran, with the usual nexus and then cyber out of the wall. If it's a zerg going hatch first you just place your second pylon at the natural, you will still be able to wall before their ling speed kicks in. If they early pool with no gas you can do the same defense as in the replay above, so you won't delay your nexus even if the only building at your natural is the 2nd pylon. I have no experience in this situation vs early gas-pool, but walling before they get ling speed or banes is probably too risky, it'll probably be more wise to one base yourself, or delay the nexus for a while at least. This was amazing, thank you so much. Now I've got 2 more questions, then I promise I'll stop :D 2) Since we covered the "offensive cheese", let's get a question about economic cheese as well I know it's not an actual thing (or at least shouldn't, but everything's a thing on the ladder), but how do you react properly to something like a Nexus first in PvP? Or to a lesser extent, a 1 Gate FE? Do you just hit 'em with the good ol' 4 Gate? Or drop your own Nexus asap and play your standard game? If they go nexus first, you can abuse it by opening 2x adept. You will murder all of their probes. Theoretically a 4 gate should win as well, even if they have the shield batteries and a few units, unless you mess up something drastically. 3 gate stalker with prism showcased here https://old.reddit.com/r/allthingsprotoss/comments/8ku6k9/build_of_the_week_pvp_manas_3gate_warp_prism_allin/is an auto win even if they have an immediate immortal followup. For a while I was obsessed with trying to find a way to economically cheese in PvP, and for now I just don't think its possible. at the time I was a 3500 asking my 3900 buddy to cheese economically (1 gate fe) and I beat him every time with adept pressure into 4 gate or 3 gate blink stalker. Your opponent would have to be SIGNIFICANTLY better than you for them to successfully pull off a fast expand, in which case you shouldn't feel bad anyways. a decently put together 4 gate should be the easiest (and probably best) response to economic cheese in PvP. This is not true. Nexus first does not die to 2 adepts (also 1gate FE is actually riskier than nexus first imo, it's much safer to have two gates which you do after a nexus first and the units come out at a decent time). It's actually very hard to reactively kill a Nexus first, and actually by opening adepts you lose any stalker advantage and they can pop out enough immortals, stalkers and batteries to hold. There was a time where I did Nexus first primarily in PvP and had almost 100% win rate at GM level, the main reason I stopped was not the allins but more the fact that you're forced to go robo to be safe which means stargate (both double oracle and phoenix) get extremely good map control and potential for damage. Since SG builds are so common, it takes away a lot of the advantage of going Nexus first. The 4gates / 3 gate blink stalkers are not that hard to hold, and a lot of the time you open nexus first to try and bait them into an allin, in which case they won't go SG. If you play at a GM level then ill defer to your experience, but im pretty close to calling shenanigans. Granted all my testing was done against 1 gate FE not nexus first, and ill have to go check timings to make sure, but if muh maths are right, there is no way you get out units to defend the 2x adept in time, and you wont be able to pylon block the shades at a natural ramp anywhere near as easy as a main ramp. How does Nexus first NOT die to it? In case I wasn't clear, the adepts aren't targeting the nexus, theyre hitting the juicy workers(don't think its necessary to point this out, but in this case ill do it). You lose your economic lead so you cant get the army supply lead to defend the all in, and theres no way youre getting immortals and shield batteries in enough quantity to defend the early adept pressure and then 11 stalkers and a warp prism at 4:40 AFTER going nexus first. Its hard enough to defend against that going defensive robo with no expand. Also near 100% pvp winrate at GM level using any build is incredibly hard to believe, let alone going nexus first. Like I said, if you really did all this then fantastic, I apologize for doubting you and ill ask your forgiveness, but after those claims and my own extensive testing on this, coupled with a thorough understanding of the matchup, im inclined to say youre talking out ya booty and are theorycrafting with bad math at best. You must have forgotten how long it takes to go across the map in your maths then, because with nexus first your units still pop just in time for the first 2 adepts. You still wall high ground to be able to battery block. It's not like adepts are threatening to your low grow nexus. The weakness isn't necessarily the very first enemy units but the fact that you're forced into very fast immortal and battery to not outright die, it's just not flexible.
Something I just considered that makes this all possible to make sense, are you just not getting the probes for your natural right away?
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i played against nexus first a few times, i punish them by building shield battery and just push with gateway unit. If u are walling high ground, you wont get battery fast enough on low ground, you will have to pull probes and kill it or you let me kill your nexus with battery and 3 gateway. If you dont wall high ground, i build 2 adepts.
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On October 19 2018 04:11 ArtyK wrote:
I just never open stargate personally
You're a masochist, right?
Just kidding, thank you so much again for the help, it was really insightful 
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On October 20 2018 01:51 SartPls wrote:You're a masochist, right? Just kidding, thank you so much again for the help, it was really insightful
No problem :p
And PvZ has been one of my best matchups for ages, so I have my ways :>
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So, I started playing SC2 recentley after watching streams and playing Brood War off and on for ...20 years.
After a few games I was placed in Platinum 3.
I have no builds, I just use what I learnt on stream and macro the shit out of my opponents.
I´m searching the forum for guides but almost everyone is out of date. (At least the ones I find)
Can someone please help me with a link for each matchup?
Thank you! And long live Jaedong.
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On October 21 2018 18:04 gulii wrote:
So, I started playing SC2 recentley after watching streams and playing Brood War off and on for ...20 years.
After a few games I was placed in Platinum 3.
I have no builds, I just use what I learnt on stream and macro the shit out of my opponents.
I´m searching the forum for guides but almost everyone is out of date. (At least the ones I find)
Can someone please help me with a link for each matchup?
Thank you! And long live Jaedong.
Check out GG emini 19's builds of the week : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=[PBOTW]
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On October 21 2018 20:06 ArtyK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2018 18:04 gulii wrote:
So, I started playing SC2 recentley after watching streams and playing Brood War off and on for ...20 years.
After a few games I was placed in Platinum 3.
I have no builds, I just use what I learnt on stream and macro the shit out of my opponents.
I´m searching the forum for guides but almost everyone is out of date. (At least the ones I find)
Can someone please help me with a link for each matchup?
Thank you! And long live Jaedong. Check out GG emini 19's builds of the week : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=[PBOTW]
Thank you so much!
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I've been hitting a tricky PvT build. It's cyclone/auto-repair SCV but it looks identical the normal 1 gas 1rax expand. It hits slightly later but because it looks identical to standard expand builds, protoss will not be prepared for it unless they can figure out it is coming early. The times I've faced it, they hit with 2 cyclones, a couple marines and 4-6 SCVs with hellions rallied into the main. It's not really scoutable until it's too late and like proxy cyclone, you have to be prepared ahead of time or you can't beat it due to the repair.
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Guys, remind me really quick - how do you react to 3 hatch no gaz (with normal pool timing)? If you let him get away with that he gets 65 drones by 5:00. (low-mid masters).
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Austria24422 Posts
Alright boys. How do you win lategame PvZ now?
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On November 22 2018 02:34 Olli wrote:
Alright boys. How do you win lategame PvZ now? I'm curious as well.
I tuned into Parting's stream and he's doing soul trains or cannon rushing most games now so maybe it's time for me to brush up on that.
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On November 22 2018 02:34 Olli wrote:
Alright boys. How do you win lategame PvZ now?
If it goes past midgame CIA, im going straight to tempest with heavy amounts of storm. Won one lost one, but the one I lost the player was just straight better than me, so idk if this style is viable or not yet.
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So, any idea on how to counter early cyclone push in pvt?
The only thing that works is fast stargate, phoenix and shield battery on natural.
Is there any other good option? that imba range is sick
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On November 24 2018 19:41 Weltall wrote:
So, any idea on how to counter early cyclone push in pvt?
The only thing that works is fast stargate, phoenix and shield battery on natural.
Is there any other good option? that imba range is sick
Highly recommend watching game 1 of zest vs innovation at HSC. Im using stalker immortal with a few zealots off of 1 gate expand into 3gate robo and twilight. If they add widow mines, add a warp prism and micro your heart out. Its not easy, but its doable.
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Bot edit.
User was banned for this post.
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On November 21 2018 14:57 insitelol wrote:
Guys, remind me really quick - how do you react to 3 hatch no gaz (with normal pool timing)? If you let him get away with that he gets 65 drones by 5:00. (low-mid masters).
I don't know, I just hit him with the fastest all-in I can do from my build. Usually some kind of gladept all-in (even from 1 base if you scout it early enough).
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Hey guys. been off from the scene a year. Just wonder how's adept/phoenix comb is still playable against terran? Haven't found anything recent whence I googled it.
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EPT
