EPT[G] French PvZ Guide - Page 2
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imabigboi
26 Posts
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PtitDrogo
France163 Posts
The situation you're describing is exactly what the zerg did this game, he had a hive behind the roach hydras, so yeah you still go for the attack ^^ | ||
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imabigboi
26 Posts
And it's not like vs swarm host, if you commit. you dont have enough transition time vs fast viper, the +2 timing is around 11:30 and a fast viper play can knock at your front door at 13:00 with a max roach hydra army. So I feel like if you commit at the +2 blink timing vs fast viper, it's an all in and you have to deal a lot of damage. Otherwise you should transition immediately. | ||
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
On March 25 2015 04:48 PtitDrogo wrote: You never stop probe production and always take gas Add gates no matter how hard the zerg is all-inning, so you will never fall behind even if you don't move out, adding a couple of canons is really cheap. Ofc make sure to see units being made so keep sending hallucinations. Well yeah, you have to see if they're making units. But I don't know exactly when 3-4 gases means "they're all in" and when it means "they just haven't taken gases 5 and 6 yet because it's too early". What are the most common zerg gas timings? Also, sometimes I see a 4th base, but the zerg hasn't taken all 6 geysers... I don't know exactly what that means. | ||
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PtitDrogo
France163 Posts
Imabigboi : Forcefields is really good, if you commit (AKA Go in and throw a bunch of forcefields to pick off stuff) you should always always never loses any sentries, if you loses sentries while doing this it was either bad ffs or a bad call to commit (in that sense I do a bad job in this video ) I never "replace" lost sentries unless I like loses all of them, this is a mass sentries build so instead of the 8 you see usually after an oracle you're going up to 13~~. So even losing a few sentries is fine in that sense, it may delay your tech a bit but you compensate that by the awesomeness that is forcefield. Vs Viper push if the guy does the 3 base version you can just mass stalkers on 3 bases and kill it (doesn't sound too pretty but that's in my experience). 13 sentries buys you a LOT of time if you really want to transition tho, that's the point of it, you can easily transition to templar with some warp prism harass behind while just surviving on pure sentries. Really roach hydra viper is not the best way to abuse someone massing sentires like this. | ||
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TedBurtle
Belarus201 Posts
1) It's Awesome! 2) I changed opener to my preferance, and still can hit timings(i think i got 2-3 sentryes less) 3) When armyes starting to fight, my first idea is "I need MICRO", but then i just press all spells on sentryes, and do some trash blink with all my stalkers, A-click and fight....and i Wining O_O (got 10-0 on zergs, with my winstreak to achieve #1 Diamond) 4) I don't need to be precise with all my buildings/timings, except tech. I think in one game i added ~14-16 gates, and it was OK with economy :D Thank you for this style! | ||
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Serimek
France2274 Posts
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No gravitas here
United Kingdom4 Posts
Have you tried going zealot -> stalker & MSC, for a little poke & scouting on the zerg's 3rd in the early game? Instead of just going straight into sentries. I like little scounting/agro vs zerg in the early game, if they over-react its pretty good for you, and this happens every now and again (Im high dia). Thank again, please make more videos! I'd love to see you do a video for gateway expand into stargate oracle/phoenix pressure. | ||
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PtitDrogo
France163 Posts
In this video I don't talk about all of the openings that you can do depending on the zerg opening because I really believe than executing this build perfectly come first, once you have a good feeling about how it works you can start trying to do other variations. | ||
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imabigboi
26 Posts
On March 25 2015 10:07 PtitDrogo wrote: Imabigboi : Forcefields is really good, if you commit (AKA Go in and throw a bunch of forcefields to pick off stuff) you should always always never loses any sentries, if you loses sentries while doing this it was either bad ffs or a bad call to commit (in that sense I do a bad job in this video ) I never "replace" lost sentries unless I like loses all of them, this is a mass sentries build so instead of the 8 you see usually after an oracle you're going up to 13~~. So even losing a few sentries is fine in that sense, it may delay your tech a bit but you compensate that by the awesomeness that is forcefield. Vs Viper push if the guy does the 3 base version you can just mass stalkers on 3 bases and kill it (doesn't sound too pretty but that's in my experience). 13 sentries buys you a LOT of time if you really want to transition tho, that's the point of it, you can easily transition to templar with some warp prism harass behind while just surviving on pure sentries. Really roach hydra viper is not the best way to abuse someone massing sentires like this. Played some games vs fast vipers recently, and it turns out to deal with it, the keys are having mass stalkers + a good fighting place easy to FF + HT to feedback vipers. The faster the viper rush is, the fewer hydras zerg will have. Any viper rush before 13min, you can think it as some variation of roach max rush+ vipers. To deal with a max roach army, protoss just need mass stalkers + FF, and add some HT to feedback viper, you don't need splash damage(colossus or storm) to deal with the first wave. Stalkers + forcefield is so good  | ||
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Xinzoe
Korea (South)2373 Posts
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PtitDrogo
France163 Posts
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Xinzoe
Korea (South)2373 Posts
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tar
Germany991 Posts
However, more recently, I have trouble against some burrow-roach builds: basically they delay their third base (going down 6:30ish) and then just flood roaches and with the 2nd or 3rd wave their burrow move kicks in. While I am able to hold the 3rd with cannons and a ton of FFs, they then usually go for the middle ground in between natural and 3rd and attack where my army isn't (sometimes, they also just burrow-move into natural and main and try to kill my entire eco). I can't seem to get enough units/cannons out to stop this. I almost feel like this is some kind of BO loss, however, I'd like to hear a more "advanced" (ie less noobish than mine) opinion on the matter  edit: typos | ||
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PtitDrogo
France163 Posts
- Try to transfer probes a bit early before the roachs kicks in, if you can't get your probes to the third you will never be able once the roachs are there and you're missing out on a lot of money - Robo at the third (start it as soon as you see the late third) and only really start to fight once you have an obs OR if he's getting in range of the canon detection. - 3 canons + 1 sentries at nat + overcharge where he's really commiting + all units at the third should usually end up in a cost effective trade for you. Once they have burrow movements you should have at least one immortal and a decent stalker counts with sentries still alive. Also keep making probes even tho you're under presure, you usually shouldn't have max saturation on the third when his roachs comes in so if he's between nat and third just queue up 5 probe on the third nexus. Setting up early vs this is really important also. If you're a bit late on every structures at the third this is gonna seems impossible to hold, in this situation is the set-up is a lot more important than the units counts as Toss. | ||
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tar
Germany991 Posts
I guess I've got to work on my set-up, especially the robo timing and placement (I've always built it back in the main till now). I'll continue the way of the French PvZ for sure | ||
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Vanadiel
France961 Posts
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
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FusionSC2
Ireland29 Posts
On July 19 2015 02:01 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: If the Zerg is going gas first, and you put your probes in gas, etc. do you still get the 19 nexus and wall off, or do you get other units first? Do you mean a 14/14 kinda thing? If so you can go up to 3 gates and expand out of that, if you place the nexus too early, you just get wrecked by speedlings, and they can take the natural behind it and drone up. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On July 19 2015 06:40 FusionSC2 wrote: Do you mean a 14/14 kinda thing? If so you can go up to 3 gates and expand out of that, if you place the nexus too early, you just get wrecked by speedlings, and they can take the natural behind it and drone up. I think so. Maybe 15/14. I show up with the 13 gate probe, see a gas already built with three drones inside, and a pool on the way. How do you know if it's speedlings or a roach push on the way? | ||
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