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[G] French PvZ Guide - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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imabigboi
Profile Joined December 2014
26 Posts
March 24 2015 20:30 GMT
#21
If zerg goes fast hive and makes ling roach hydra to hold your attack, do you still commit at the +2 blink timing?
PtitDrogo
Profile Joined May 2011
France163 Posts
March 24 2015 20:36 GMT
#22
He can't have both Roachs and hydras for the first move out, but even if the zerg hold you're by no mean behind if you don't lose any units.
The situation you're describing is exactly what the zerg did this game, he had a hive behind the roach hydras, so yeah you still go for the attack ^^
Progamer
imabigboi
Profile Joined December 2014
26 Posts
March 24 2015 21:45 GMT
#23
hmm I feel like if you commit and zerg holds it without losing too much, your tech is behind. Yes, you can throw down a templar archive immediately, but since you commit, losing units seems unavoidable, especially sentries, so you have to replace the lost sentries and tech to HT at the same time, both require a lot of gas and you have to make zealot which is bad against roach hydra.
And it's not like vs swarm host, if you commit. you dont have enough transition time vs fast viper, the +2 timing is around 11:30 and a fast viper play can knock at your front door at 13:00 with a max roach hydra army.
So I feel like if you commit at the +2 blink timing vs fast viper, it's an all in and you have to deal a lot of damage. Otherwise you should transition immediately.
vhapter
Profile Joined May 2010
Brazil677 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-24 23:28:48
March 24 2015 23:28 GMT
#24
On March 25 2015 04:48 PtitDrogo wrote:
You never stop probe production and always take gas Add gates no matter how hard the zerg is all-inning, so you will never fall behind even if you don't move out, adding a couple of canons is really cheap. Ofc make sure to see units being made so keep sending hallucinations.

Well yeah, you have to see if they're making units. But I don't know exactly when 3-4 gases means "they're all in" and when it means "they just haven't taken gases 5 and 6 yet because it's too early". What are the most common zerg gas timings? Also, sometimes I see a 4th base, but the zerg hasn't taken all 6 geysers... I don't know exactly what that means.
To live is to fight, to fight is to live!
PtitDrogo
Profile Joined May 2011
France163 Posts
March 25 2015 01:07 GMT
#25
Just don't worry about it too much, If you don't see all gas taken the zerg is delaying his tech so it makes your sentries useful for a lot longer. Adding canons when you think it's an all-in but they don't is fine too. Moving out with recall is also really safe even if you make a bad call. This is a situation where it's really forgiving for the toss.

Imabigboi : Forcefields is really good, if you commit (AKA Go in and throw a bunch of forcefields to pick off stuff) you should always always never loses any sentries, if you loses sentries while doing this it was either bad ffs or a bad call to commit (in that sense I do a bad job in this video )
I never "replace" lost sentries unless I like loses all of them, this is a mass sentries build so instead of the 8 you see usually after an oracle you're going up to 13~~. So even losing a few sentries is fine in that sense, it may delay your tech a bit but you compensate that by the awesomeness that is forcefield.
Vs Viper push if the guy does the 3 base version you can just mass stalkers on 3 bases and kill it (doesn't sound too pretty but that's in my experience).
13 sentries buys you a LOT of time if you really want to transition tho, that's the point of it, you can easily transition to templar with some warp prism harass behind while just surviving on pure sentries. Really roach hydra viper is not the best way to abuse someone massing sentires like this.
Progamer
TedBurtle
Profile Blog Joined April 2014
Belarus201 Posts
March 25 2015 06:23 GMT
#26
Okay, finally i started to trying this.
1) It's Awesome!
2) I changed opener to my preferance, and still can hit timings(i think i got 2-3 sentryes less)
3) When armyes starting to fight, my first idea is "I need MICRO", but then i just press all spells on sentryes, and do some trash blink with all my stalkers, A-click and fight....and i Wining O_O (got 10-0 on zergs, with my winstreak to achieve #1 Diamond)
4) I don't need to be precise with all my buildings/timings, except tech. I think in one game i added ~14-16 gates, and it was OK with economy :D

Thank you for this style!
Unbeatable Protoss
Serimek
Profile Joined August 2011
France2274 Posts
March 25 2015 21:09 GMT
#27
Very enjoyable video. Thank you PtiDrogo !
SC2 is the best game to watch and was the best to play before I grew old and slow...
No gravitas here
Profile Joined March 2015
United Kingdom4 Posts
March 26 2015 00:30 GMT
#28
Nice vid, I'm going to start using this.

Have you tried going zealot -> stalker & MSC, for a little poke & scouting on the zerg's 3rd in the early game? Instead of just going straight into sentries. I like little scounting/agro vs zerg in the early game, if they over-react its pretty good for you, and this happens every now and again (Im high dia).

Thank again, please make more videos! I'd love to see you do a video for gateway expand into stargate oracle/phoenix pressure.
DBFlux, EU
PtitDrogo
Profile Joined May 2011
France163 Posts
March 26 2015 02:57 GMT
#29
Zealot stalker poke Is viable ofc, you never wanna do it if the zerg takes his gas too early and has his speed kicking in before you can recall. So it's a viable option if you see the Zerg going for a late gas (Vs late gas I like to poke with just a stalker to test the water myself, with sometime a little oracle behind it and sometime not, keep the zerg honest)
In this video I don't talk about all of the openings that you can do depending on the zerg opening because I really believe than executing this build perfectly come first, once you have a good feeling about how it works you can start trying to do other variations.
Progamer
imabigboi
Profile Joined December 2014
26 Posts
March 27 2015 16:49 GMT
#30
On March 25 2015 10:07 PtitDrogo wrote:
Imabigboi : Forcefields is really good, if you commit (AKA Go in and throw a bunch of forcefields to pick off stuff) you should always always never loses any sentries, if you loses sentries while doing this it was either bad ffs or a bad call to commit (in that sense I do a bad job in this video )
I never "replace" lost sentries unless I like loses all of them, this is a mass sentries build so instead of the 8 you see usually after an oracle you're going up to 13~~. So even losing a few sentries is fine in that sense, it may delay your tech a bit but you compensate that by the awesomeness that is forcefield.
Vs Viper push if the guy does the 3 base version you can just mass stalkers on 3 bases and kill it (doesn't sound too pretty but that's in my experience).
13 sentries buys you a LOT of time if you really want to transition tho, that's the point of it, you can easily transition to templar with some warp prism harass behind while just surviving on pure sentries. Really roach hydra viper is not the best way to abuse someone massing sentires like this.

Played some games vs fast vipers recently, and it turns out to deal with it, the keys are having mass stalkers + a good fighting place easy to FF + HT to feedback vipers. The faster the viper rush is, the fewer hydras zerg will have. Any viper rush before 13min, you can think it as some variation of roach max rush+ vipers. To deal with a max roach army, protoss just need mass stalkers + FF, and add some HT to feedback viper, you don't need splash damage(colossus or storm) to deal with the first wave.
Stalkers + forcefield is so good
Xinzoe
Profile Joined January 2014
Korea (South)2373 Posts
March 27 2015 16:56 GMT
#31
how to deal with gold bases on expedition. when i see a zerg take gold im completely lost. i cant find any progamer vods cuz they usually take gold to do spine + queen cheese and stuff. im talking about the zergs that play a standard game off gold. ive been experimenting with certain allins and hitting at timings a few seconds behind progamers but zerg can afford so many damn units with gold
PtitDrogo
Profile Joined May 2011
France163 Posts
March 27 2015 18:41 GMT
#32
Yeah fuck that gold BS on expedition nowadays I scout both golds before going into the zerg base and if I see an hatch I add a forge and canon rush. I don't have any real solution vs this sorry every toss I talk to are kinda lost too.
Progamer
Xinzoe
Profile Joined January 2014
Korea (South)2373 Posts
March 29 2015 01:44 GMT
#33
I was watching MaNa vs violet today on expidition. violet went for gold base, mana went gateway exp. he scouts gold and does lowground cannon rush and zealot stalker msc pressure to make sure cannons go up. seems like a good counter, i might try it. Mana still lost cuz he messed up his forcefield though
tar
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany991 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-14 12:22:40
April 14 2015 10:37 GMT
#34
Thanks for the guide! I am experimenting with this atm and I have good success with it when facing "standard" play.

However, more recently, I have trouble against some burrow-roach builds: basically they delay their third base (going down 6:30ish) and then just flood roaches and with the 2nd or 3rd wave their burrow move kicks in. While I am able to hold the 3rd with cannons and a ton of FFs, they then usually go for the middle ground in between natural and 3rd and attack where my army isn't (sometimes, they also just burrow-move into natural and main and try to kill my entire eco). I can't seem to get enough units/cannons out to stop this. I almost feel like this is some kind of BO loss, however, I'd like to hear a more "advanced" (ie less noobish than mine) opinion on the matter

edit: typos
whoever I pick for my anti team turns gosu
PtitDrogo
Profile Joined May 2011
France163 Posts
April 14 2015 14:19 GMT
#35
Not really a Bo loss imo, I don't play vs this often so I can't give a really specific response, but here's some advice for defense vs roachs in general :
- Try to transfer probes a bit early before the roachs kicks in, if you can't get your probes to the third you will never be able once the roachs are there and you're missing out on a lot of money
- Robo at the third (start it as soon as you see the late third) and only really start to fight once you have an obs OR if he's getting in range of the canon detection.
- 3 canons + 1 sentries at nat + overcharge where he's really commiting + all units at the third should usually end up in a cost effective trade for you.

Once they have burrow movements you should have at least one immortal and a decent stalker counts with sentries still alive.
Also keep making probes even tho you're under presure, you usually shouldn't have max saturation on the third when his roachs comes in so if he's between nat and third just queue up 5 probe on the third nexus.
Setting up early vs this is really important also. If you're a bit late on every structures at the third this is gonna seems impossible to hold, in this situation is the set-up is a lot more important than the units counts as Toss.
Progamer
tar
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany991 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-15 09:39:26
April 15 2015 09:36 GMT
#36
Very much obliged PtitDrogo!
I guess I've got to work on my set-up, especially the robo timing and placement (I've always built it back in the main till now).
I'll continue the way of the French PvZ for sure
whoever I pick for my anti team turns gosu
Vanadiel
Profile Joined April 2012
France961 Posts
April 15 2015 10:17 GMT
#37
PtitDrogo, will this build help you to get you out of Diamond league? :p
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
July 18 2015 17:01 GMT
#38
If the Zerg is going gas first, and you put your probes in gas, etc. do you still get the 19 nexus and wall off, or do you get other units first?
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
FusionSC2
Profile Joined June 2013
Ireland29 Posts
July 18 2015 21:40 GMT
#39
On July 19 2015 02:01 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
If the Zerg is going gas first, and you put your probes in gas, etc. do you still get the 19 nexus and wall off, or do you get other units first?


Do you mean a 14/14 kinda thing?

If so you can go up to 3 gates and expand out of that, if you place the nexus too early, you just get wrecked by speedlings, and they can take the natural behind it and drone up.
I came, I saw, I conquered
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
July 18 2015 22:29 GMT
#40
On July 19 2015 06:40 FusionSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2015 02:01 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
If the Zerg is going gas first, and you put your probes in gas, etc. do you still get the 19 nexus and wall off, or do you get other units first?


Do you mean a 14/14 kinda thing?

If so you can go up to 3 gates and expand out of that, if you place the nexus too early, you just get wrecked by speedlings, and they can take the natural behind it and drone up.

I think so. Maybe 15/14. I show up with the 13 gate probe, see a gas already built with three drones inside, and a pool on the way.

How do you know if it's speedlings or a roach push on the way?
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
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