EPTBecause We Can: Breaking #Dreampool - Page 9
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Cool C
United States69 Posts
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ZombieFrog
United States87 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 19 2014 16:37 ZombieFrog wrote: RIP all macro play on ladder for this season. Cept swarmhosts i suppose. All maps except for Metal and XNC are amazing macro maps for Terran. Akilon, Shakuras, Daybreak, CK are all very strong macro maps for Protoss. | ||
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Th1rdEye
United States1074 Posts
So zerg can use imba swarm hosts on these maps.. only thing we can do? Or bust a 3rd base? While we are shit on by every all in in the book | ||
Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On November 19 2014 18:56 Big J wrote: Akilon, Shakuras, Daybreak, CK are all very strong macro maps for Protoss. No they're not. They're absolutely terrible macro maps vs terran (except for Akilon), and absolutely terrible for PvSwarmhost (except CK). | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 19 2014 19:27 DarkLordOlli wrote: No they're not. They're absolutely terrible macro maps vs terran (except for Akilon), and absolutely terrible for PvSwarmhost (except CK). Swarm Hosts haven't broken a single map in HotS. It's the same song Protoss players have been singing since the start of HotS. Anytime Swarm Hosts are good on a map, "they are broken", because you guys just don't want to play against them. Daybreak might be the one and only exception due to the middle base setup, and even that one isn't that different to King Sejong. | ||
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On November 19 2014 20:15 Big J wrote: Swarm Hosts haven't broken a single map in HotS. It's the same song Protoss players have been singing since the start of HotS. Anytime Swarm Hosts are good on a map, "they are broken", because you guys just don't want to play against them. Daybreak might be the one and only exception due to the middle base setup, and even that one isn't that different to King Sejong. And where exactly was it said that Swarm Hosts broke any of these maps? They're extremely strong on them. Just like blink all ins are extremely strong on some, but not broken. Basically anytime zerg can put Swarmhosts in one central spot and split the map in half, that's when it's a good Swarmhost map. Let's look at all these maps! -> Akilon? Only one attack path through the middle? Protoss having to expand towards zerg? Good SH map. Not an excellent one since there's lots of air space on the sides to use warp prisms, but still. With enough static defense it gets extremely hard for protoss to break through, especially since their lategame expansions are almost automatically sieged by SHs. -> Ohana? Good lord. Two tight attack paths through the middle, protoss expanding towards zerg? This map is SH heaven. -> Daybreak? Sit swarmhosts at the watchtower in the middle, protoss has to expand towards you? SH heaven. -> CK? Lots of attack paths to swing around a SH army, lots of space to put up pylons and fly around with prisms. Protoss doesn't necessarily have to expand towards zerg. Short rush distance though, which makes sieging protoss bases easier. Probably the best map to deal with SHs as protoss. -> Shakuras? One attack path through the middle. Protoss expands towards you or has to take the far away bases, which means they have to expose their army in the middle of the map. SH heaven. Just make sure to have enough static defense in the main to deal with blink-ins or prisms. -> Metalopolis? Irrelevant since protoss can't hold a third, sometimes not even a natural. Would be a fantastic SH map. -> Xelnaga? Irrelevant for the same reasons, but would be a fantastic SH map. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
And where exactly was it said that Swarm Hosts broke any of these maps? They're extremely strong on them. Just like blink all ins are extremely strong on some, but not broken. Basically anytime zerg can put Swarmhosts in one central spot and split the map in half, that's when it's a good Swarmhost map. Let's look at all these maps! If they aren't too strong, then I don't see your point in arguing that the maps are terrible for Protoss vs Swarm Hosts. Akilon and Daybreak both allow you to take 4bases before you have to expand towards the Swarm Hosts. Akilon is 49-51 for ZvP btw and really doesn't have a reputation as "Protoss allins or Swarm Hosts win" map. Shakuras the first 4bases are nearly for free if you take the pocket expansion and then the one behind the rocks. The entrances are tiny which makes Swarm Hosts nearly useless against them. From there it is a Skytoss and Warp Prism paradise, given how close the distances from your 4th to the Zergs later expansions or main bases are. It's actually a Swarm Host hell against Prisms, because you just can't really defend more than 3-4bases properly as Zerg there, while the moment you go swarm hosts the Protoss can take the other side of his half for free. CK as you said isn't too strong for SHs to begin with. Ohana has always been a crap map and the only reason why it stayed so long was that it was the only map with balanced or even slightly P/T favored winrates against Zerg during BL/Infestor. Which tells us a lot how broken that map actually always was (unless of course you consider BL/Infestor balanced...) Metal and XNC are of course crapmaps and should be vetoed by every Protoss player. | ||
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Apoteosis
Chile820 Posts
On November 19 2014 20:33 DarkLordOlli wrote: And where exactly was it said that Swarm Hosts broke any of these maps? They're extremely strong on them. Just like blink all ins are extremely strong on some, but not broken. Basically anytime zerg can put Swarmhosts in one central spot and split the map in half, that's when it's a good Swarmhost map. Let's look at all these maps! -> Akilon? Only one attack path through the middle? Protoss having to expand towards zerg? Good SH map. Not an excellent one since there's lots of air space on the sides to use warp prisms, but still. With enough static defense it gets extremely hard for protoss to break through, especially since their lategame expansions are almost automatically sieged by SHs. -> Ohana? Good lord. Two tight attack paths through the middle, protoss expanding towards zerg? This map is SH heaven. -> Daybreak? Sit swarmhosts at the watchtower in the middle, protoss has to expand towards you? SH heaven. -> CK? Lots of attack paths to swing around a SH army, lots of space to put up pylons and fly around with prisms. Protoss doesn't necessarily have to expand towards zerg. Short rush distance though, which makes sieging protoss bases easier. Probably the best map to deal with SHs as protoss. -> Shakuras? One attack path through the middle. Protoss expands towards you or has to take the far away bases, which means they have to expose their army in the middle of the map. SH heaven. Just make sure to have enough static defense in the main to deal with blink-ins or prisms. -> Metalopolis? Irrelevant since protoss can't hold a third, sometimes not even a natural. Would be a fantastic SH map. -> Xelnaga? Irrelevant for the same reasons, but would be a fantastic SH map. #positionalplay | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
I can't tell you how many proxy hatcheries I'm seeing. Used to be that I would get to their base and see no pool and expect a hatch first / greedy build. Now I start scouting for proxies :/ -_____- | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 19 2014 23:20 DinoMight wrote: Swarm Hosts are better for cheese on this map than they are for actual play. There are a few places you can put them where they can hit every single base on the map. I can't tell you how many proxy hatcheries I'm seeing. Used to be that I would get to their base and see no pool and expect a hatch first / greedy build. Now I start scouting for proxies :/ -_____- Early game SC2 is so fucked up.  Cheese is nice when it is something that actually metagames an opponent. It's so stupid when these builds just work decently against everything. | ||
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Muxtar
Ukraine64 Posts
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Yorkie
United States12612 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On November 19 2014 16:08 Cool C wrote: I would also like some new team player maps for chrismas blizzard. Snow decorated plz. For the noobs santa, for the noobs. And bring back Frost  | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
And bring back HATS! My inner TF2 player needs it again. I want my queens to have little santa hats | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On November 20 2014 00:13 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: And bring back HATS! My inner TF2 player needs it again. I want my queens to have little santa hats The birthday celebration hats were so annoying lol. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On November 20 2014 00:45 DinoMight wrote: The birthday celebration hats were so annoying lol. Uh, I think you mean amazing. | ||
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Dungeontai
Austria4 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24604 Posts
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On November 20 2014 01:22 Heartland wrote: What on earth should you do PvZ on Xel'naga or Metalopolis? 10-gate into 3-gate? Pylon, Gateway, Double, Gas, Pylon, Cyber, Robo, Twilight, Dark Shrine, 3 more gates (all in your main). Make 2 Immortals in a Warp Prism and send it over (start warp prism first because you won't have gas). Drop the Immortals, snipe the spore, warp in 4 DTs, kill everything in his main. Then add a Colossus den and expand. Works in Diamond :p EDIT - Works against Terran too. Snipe Turret, then tech labs, then reactors. Then go for worker kills. With some micro he runs out of scans pretty fast. | ||
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