It's safe to say that the introduction of outdated and broken maps to the current ladder pool is one of the most controversial decisions taken by Blizzard to date regarding sc2. Let's be honest: the Wings era is the Wild West of Starcraft. Even if you weren't part of the scene then, you will surely have heard legends about unstoppable 111 all-ins, ridiculous bunker rushes (IdrA vs Jinro on Metalopolis anyone?), impossibly wide open expansions and broken protoss timings. We had one MLG when the entire Slayers team showed up with a new, seemingly unstoppable blueflame hellion build, resulting in games with dozens of dead SCV's. Stephano built his early zvp style on making lots of cheap units and amoving because he knew that no matter what, the protoss would run out of forcefields. Despite the obvious, ridiculous imbalances of the time, this was also an era of discovery and development, and an era when a revolutionary new build could come out of nowhere and change the game as it was known.
Playing with modern units and builds on these maps will certainly be interesting, to say the least. If you are expecting anything remotely resembling balance or fairness, you probably should take a break from ladder for a while. On the other hand, if you just feel like collecting a few Terran/Zerg/Protoss tears and sweet, sweet ladder points, keep reading and playing. You are going to have a good time.
Protoss
You may or may not know that Protoss is capable of 2basing with absolutely every unit at its disposal, which is amazing in and of itself. Going into the season, many of the "new" maps look like they have been created exclusively so that Protoss players can make other players' lives miserable, to an extent that hasn't quite been matched before. These are just a few ideas:
Immortal Busts
This is the little brother of the glorious Soultrain, savior of Aiur and reaper of Zerg souls. It's particularly strong on maps with extremely open naturals, like Metalopolis and Xel'Naga, as they are impossible to hold with just bunkers. It has also been used successfully on maps either without a natural ramp, like Daybreak, or with natural "backdoor" rocks to abuse, like Ohana. Of course an immortal all-in is good on Ohana, who am I kidding...
13 Gate (3x chronoboost on probes at start)
14 Gas
18 Core
20 Zealot
22 Pylon
23 Stalker and WG tech (3 chrono total on WG tech)
27 Nexus (at 26 food, rally nexus to natural. The probe will reach the natural right on time)
29 Sentry
29 Assimilator
30 Pylon
31 Robotics. Off robotics: immortal 2x
33 Gateway, msc
Warp in sentry/zealot as gas allows. Make sure to not delay your immortals
35 2x gates
Push out when immortals are done. You should be at the Terran's natural around 8:40.
Blink Stalkers
Old maps were not built with the blink stalker+msc combo in mind, and they feature extremely wide open mains as a result. Additionally, on some maps (Metalopolis, Xel'Naga Caverns, Ohana) the main-natural ramp is very close to the spot where stalkers tend to blink in, meaning that it's very easy to simply bring a warp prism along, drop four sentries and end the game with two clicks. Very skillful. The most broken map of them all is Shakuras Plateau, where you can harass and blink into the main from the "backdoor" corridor while being protected by a set of destructible rocks.
Much Protoss. Such wow. Very skill.
I assume that anyone reading this already knows at least one blink all-in for PvT and PvZ, so here's a few ideas for slightly more ridiculous builds:
PvP DT expand into Blink timing:
Double gas opener, 2 on each gas
19/26 second gate, 3 on each gas
First 200 gas: stalker, warpgate, msc
Twilight council as soon as you can afford it, dark shrine once it completes
2x stalkers as minerals allow, scout your side of the map
Cut probes at 24 until you expand
3rd gate as warpgate completes
~6:30: blink, nexus, warp in one offensive DT
Nonstop probes after starting the nexus, push as blink completes. If the DT did damage you win.
PvZ Blink/Sentry drop all-in
FFE opening
From the first Gateway: Stalker, Sentry, Sentry
+1 Weapons with your first 100 gas
6:20: 3rd and 4th gas.
7:20: 3 extra Gates and a Twilight Council.
7:50: Robo.
+2 Weapons when +1 completes; Blink after +2 is started. Chronoboost +2 more than Blink to line up their completion.
8:30: 3-4 extra Gates.
Go up to 4 Sentries before switching to Stalkers, make a Warp Prism and move out when all your Gates are ready.
10:00: Pray you get to blink into the main and land a ff on the ramp. Collect ladder points and zerg tears.
PvZ Rain's +1 blink all-in. Completely and utterly broken on Shakuras.
FFE opening
From the first gateway: 2x stalkers
~5:40: warpgate, twilight council as as soon cyber core completes
+1 Weapons with the next 100 gas
3rd gas at 6:30
Blink as soon as the Twilight Council completes
Add 6 gates, cut at 41 probes
Mothership core after cutting probes.
Push/harass his main once blink completes, warping in stalkers on the low ground between mains. If cross positions secure a "proxy" pylon early on, if close by air just use one of the pylons in your main to reinforce.
Cannon Rushing Spots
Every map has some stupidly abusive cannon rush spots, especially for PvP. These screenshots highlight the most well known. The maps shown are, in order, Ohana, Cloud Kingdom, Metalopolis, Daybreak and Akilon Wastes:
Protoss 101. sOs, i hope i made you proud.
The Has build...well, one of them
You may or may not know that the absolutely amazing taiwanese Protoss Has beat MMA at some Chinese tournament by going proxy oracle into proxy void ray into 4gate into proxy tempest into cannon contain into proxy nexus. Like a true warrior of Aiur. Anyway, as it turns out, this kind of bullshit would actually be legit on maps where you can use your tempests/oracle to harass the Terran mineral line as well as his ramp defense...you know, older maps like Metalopolis, Cloud Kingdom, Daybreak, maybe Shakuras... Too bad they aren't...oh wait. RIP terran.
13 gate, send probe out
15/18 double gas
18/18 cyber core
18/18 proxy pylon
Stargate as soon as proxy pylon completes.
Stalker, warpgate with the next 100 gas. This stalker is only used for base defense.
3rd pylon at main ramp.
Off stargate: 2x Oracles, Void Ray
Forge at your main ramp as the Oracle is building. Cannon in your main mineral line if he opened fact. Use your stalker to fully block the ramp.
2 extra gates as warpgate completes and money allows.
Do as much damage as possible with your air army, contain the terran with your stargate/gateway army and a few cannons.
Fleet beacon and msc after as 3rd void ray is building. Use your air army to protect the stargate. The msc is mostly used for base defense
For extra BM make a natural nexus and use overcharge to push up the ramp
The forge is seriously genius. You can really picture Has pulling this shit on ladder hundreds of times and being like "uh fact builds are strong vs this and sometimes i can't quite contain him. Better get a forge to fully wall my main and then to expand at his natural if i want to."
Ohana means family. Cloud Kingdom and Daybreak also kind of mean family
If there's one thing that annoys me about HotS is that Soultrains are seriously half arsed a lot of the time. Like, people will push with 2 immortals after 10 minutes, without pressuring first. This can not stand. Plz make Parting Senpai proud, Ohana is his playground after all.
Soultrain:
From the first Gateway: Zealot, Sentry, Sentry, Sentry.
8:15: 3 extra Gates. Separate the two sets of Gates to make scouting harder.
Cut Probes at 46.
~8:50: move out at with 3 Immortals, 1 Zealot, 10 Sentries. Rally the Warp Prism and Observer to the Zerg third, reinforce with Stalkers as gas permits.
4gate+1 into Soultrain, because #2011nostalgia:
From the first Gateway: Zealot, Stalker, Stalker
+1 Weapons with the first 100 gas
Move out with Zealot/Stalker/Probe to secure proxy Pylon locations.
6:35, 38/44 food: 3 extra Gates.
7:00: 3rd and 4th gas, Robotics
40/44: add a Pylon at home and at least one proxy Pylon
7:40: transform Gates and warp in 4 Zealots
Chronoboost Usage: 3 on Probes before your Nexus, 2 on Nexus after adding your first two gasses,1 on pre-wg Gateway units,4 on Warpgate Research
Go up to full 2 base saturation and get your Sentry count up between 8 and 12.
10:30: push when the second Immortal is ready.
Poor monk...
Terran
Yep, that's right, Terrans can now abuse and bullshit their way too, 2010 style. It's not quite as ridiculous as Protoss, but on some maps it's equally broken. I present to you:
2rax bunker spots
3 bunker walls are probably the most Protoss thing you can do as Terran. Depending on the map, you can either fully wall the zerg with 3 bunkers, notably on Cloud Kingdom and Shakuras where the hatch is also in range of the bunkers. This is also doable on Ohana, but it's not as powerful as your wall will be further away. Additionally, on some maps it's possible to wall off a single marine with bunker, thus protecting him from melee attacks and increasing the chances of your rush working. Here are some notable screenshots:
yolo. Totally fair.
Shakuras Plateau and tank drops
Just like Protoss can abuse the ridicolous architecture of Shakuras Plateau with blink stalkers, Terran can do the same with tank drops. This particular strategy isn't particularly new, as it was a staple in TvZ on Lost Temple, and was re adapted to the point of being used on Deadwing. It is very map dependant, but extremely powerful. A possible build order is:
12rax
12gas
15oc+reaper, reactor on rax right after
17cc
18depot (finish wall)
100 gas: factory, second gas.
2 marines from reactor rax
swap rax and fact, start starport when factory finishes
2 hellions from fact, tech lab on rax
begin walling your natural w/ 3 depots and bunker at this point
swap rax and fac back again after your 2 hellions and tech lab are done
make a tank and 4 more marines from the reactored rax
your tank and medivac should start at roughly the same time
if you know your opponent is not allining you then go drop, put the rax on the tech lab and start stim, add 3rd cc asap. Play standard afterwards, if your opponent doesn't rage quit.
The greatest thing of course is not having just one little piece of abusive bullshit in your build, but going through layers of it. What if, for example, you could 2rax bunker wall and then tank drop? This next build does just that, courtesy of TY who succesfully used it to snipe Soulkey in Proleague. Note that after the 2rax the timings are only a rough indication.
12/12 2rax; keep building SCV's as you pressure; bring 3 along (with 3 you can bunker wall)
wall off ramp with 3 depots
make ~6 marines and float rax back home, expand. If bunkers went up you get a free hatch kill
double gas after cc starts;
3rd cc as soon as you can afford it
fact at 100 gas
make 1-2 reapers for scouting; non stop marines off rax
100% fact: starport, tech lab on fact, tech lab on rax, 3rd gas. Off fact: 2x tanks; off starport: reactor, 2x medivacs.
Tech lab on rax: stim
After tank starts: 2x ebays, 4th gas
Extra rax
Drop 1 scv, 2 tanks and 7 marines. Have fun. Turrets vs mutas lol yolo
Mvp's hipster 2fact blueflame
This is by far my favourite TvZ build because a) the look of drones burnt alive is awesome b) it's manly as hell and c) Mvp popularized it and he's a boss. It's really a high risk/high reward build: it's somewhat vulnerable to roach/ling busts (if you really want to you can make a safety tech lab on your rax while delaying your blueflame though) and it really needs to do considerable damage to pay off, but when it does work it's amazing. Assuming you aren't playing against a bust, it's going to be hilariously strong on Metalopolis and Xel'Naga Caverns (hello Tasteless secret hallway!), but you can try it on pretty much any map for extra nostalgia. Here's Mvp's exact build from the GSL final against Life:
1rax fe, build 4 marines
17 depot
19 double gas
fact at 100 gas, reactor on rax next 50 gas
bunker at nat as the first fact completes
second fact asap, tech lab with rax as soon as reactor completes. Hellions and scv nonstop, hide hellions after the first 4 are out.
blueflame as soon as tech lab completes; non stop hellions; starport after blueflame. Off starport: viking.
Move out with ~12 hellions as soon as blueflame completes; rally your facts over.
3rd cc and double armory behind your push (~9), add 3rd fact, gasses at nat, start viking production.
Keep map control with the hellions, ebay at ~11 vs mutas, thors/tanks as needed once you have a good hellion count (10ish) and factories kick in.
Make Artosis proud.
TERRAAAAAAAAAAAAAN
Gangnam terran
The time it takes to lift your CC to the gold on Metalopolis is only about 8 seconds slower than Habitation Station, so all the glorious Gangnam Terran bullshit that Bbyong came up with is still very viable. And let's be honest, every terran just LOVES the idea of going back to the days off 111's on Metalopolis. Here's two build orders for it, with cloak banshees or a hellion drop first:
Lift Command Center to gold base
8 Supply Depot
10 Barracks #1
11 Refinery
13 Marine (produce 5 until reactor, then resume)
13 Orbital Command, Bunker
16 Factory, Refinery, Supply Depot
23 Starport, Widow Mine, Supply Depot
26 Hellion, Reactor (on Rax #1), Barracks #2
29 Tech lab on Starport
29 Barracks #3
30 Raven, Tech lab on Factory
Cut SCVs here, 22 total
Tank production when ready
[~6:30] Banshee + Cloak
Lift Command Center to gold base
8 Supply Depot
10 Barracks #1
11 Refinery
13 Marine (produce 8 until reactor, then resume)
13 Orbital Command, Bunker
16 Factory
17 Supply Depot
18 Refinery (Factory at 50)
21 Starport, Widow Mine
25 Supply Depot
Units start dying here as you harass so numbers are iffy
29 Hellion
31 Medivac
33 Hellion
35 Reactor (on Rax #1), Barracks #2 and #3
[~6:15] Marine drop with hellion runby
36 Tech lab (on factory), Tech lab (on starport)
Tank production when ready
One Raven when ready
2Rax Reaper
This build is viable on most maps that are also good for blink stalkers (so basically, everything except Daybreak), and it's really pretty simple: make reapers, micro, kill workers, transition into bio and amove to victory. If every map was Shakuras in horizontal spawns, Terran wouldn't really lose any games. Unless when Protoss makes oracles of course.
12Rax
12 Gas
14 Rax, delay orbital
Make 5-7 reapers for harassment, transition into standard play behind them.
Extra boss points for this build [00:14:00] Pokebunny: i did actually play a 2rax reaper into 5 rax reaper game [00:14:01] Pokebunny: the other day [00:14:04] Pokebunny: it went pretty well
Zerg
Last and kind of least, Zerg. It's not that Zerg bullshit is weaker per se, quite the contrary, but it's clearly not as manly as Terran and especially Protoss. As Zerg there's mainly two things that are really abuseable: Swarm Host favored maps, and insanely wide open naturals and third bases that allow for a variety of all-ins and busts.
Swarm Hosts
If you can easily split the map and siege your swarm hosts in a good position, shit just gets ridiculous. The strongest in the current pool are probably Shakuras Plateau, Xel'Naga Caverns (oh the irony!), Metalopolis and Daybreak, with Ohana, Akilon and Cloud Kingdom also being really good. Yeah. Basically, this is the plan:
Firecake is all like FUCK YEAH
Every roach/ling/bane bust you can possibly imagine
Honestly, dear Terran/Protoss, do you really expect to hold your natural on Metalopolis and Xel'Naga Caverns? That's so cute. Here's a few standard and less than standard builds. Of course you are never really all-in since you can just make 30 drones in 10 seconds and yolo because Zerg is fun like that. #bullshit.
Roach Bane Ling TvZ
9Overlord
13Scout
15Hatchery
16Pool, Gas (2 in gas)
17Overlord, Queen x 2 (Double Inject)
21 Lings x 4 (2Sets)
Drones to 28
28 Overlord, defensive Spine
Drones to 31, start Ling speed with first 100 gas. Saturate gas again at 5:30
Drones to 42, 2nd gas, 2-3 sets of lings if pressured by hellions,
~6:45 Roach Warren (in this order).
Drones to 44, 3x Overlords
~7:45: 7 roaches, Baneling Nest, ovelords as necessary.
Make non-stop lings
~9:00: morph lings outside of the Terran's base, amove
3hatch ling bane ZvP. Gold base for extra boss points.
This one is fucking impossible to scout and will get you a considerable amount of tears. Bonus man points if on Metalopolis you double expand at both golds first. On particularly wide open maps (again, Metal and Xel'naga) opening speedling expand might be a good idea.
14Pool
15Overlord
100% pool: Queen (Inject first, tumour second, then all injects), 2x Lings (Keep 1 at natural to deny scouting of your main)
20 Gas (As soon as probe is down the ramp)
21 Hatchery
Drones up to 26
26 3rd Base (4:45-5:00)
First 100 gas: Ling speed.
Next 50 gas: Baneling Next.
31 and onwards: make only lings and banelings, amove to victory if he fast expanded.
Busting a Third Base
The wide open third bases on older maps are particularly vulnerable to this kind of build, so feel free to channel your inner Stephano. I have included both ZvP and ZvT builds that rely simply on overrunning your opponent with roaches or roach/hydra. Roach max
One of the most notorious Builds from the WoL era, it's also quite simple to execute and should be very effective on most maps in the current map pool. It's also quite outdated, so most people will likely be caught off guard as they likely haven't played against this style in a long time. The rough timings for it are as follows:
3:15-3:45 First hatch begins
4:00-5:00 Second hatch taken
6:00 Double Gas Geysers
7:00 Roach Warren and Evolution Chamber
7:20 Lair and 3rd Gas Geyser
First 100 gas will go into lair, then invest in zergling speed, +1 ranged attack and roach speed, in this order
8:15 Roach Production and 4th Gas Geyser. Roach production times very nicely with the arrival of most protoss timings, which is a nice plus. Begin +1 attack. Drone up to 60-65 drones, then mass units.
9:00-10:00 Roaches, 4th Base (~60-65 Drones)
Max out, amove and win
1/1 Speed Roach into 2/2 Roach Hydra
This style is actually fairly new, but it's going to be absolutely devastating on older maps, while still being extremely powerful in a more modern map pool. The idea is to beat the Terran's face with so many mid-game units that he will not have time to secure his third base and start dropping and doing those annoying parade 4M pushes, while all you do is inject and amove. Pretty awesome.
15 hatch
14 pool
17 overlord
100% pool: lings x3/queen x2
24 overlord
100% queens: queen x2
33 overlord
5:15 gas x2
42 overlord
6:30 sac overlord. Not that your build is going to change or anything.
6:30-7:00: 3rd hatch
6:45: lair/roach warren/evo x2
7:20: gas x2
100% lair: roach speed/overlord speed
stop drones at 60, constant roach production
10:30: 1/1 roach timing (150 supply)
Start 2/2 and Hydra den during the attack
11:30: 4th hatch + drones to about 70
14:00: 2/2 roach/hydra attack (maxed out)
Because microing lings against mines, defending drops and harassing with mutas and all that is for pussies.
On November 18 2014 03:25 graNite wrote: Why no "How to macro" strategy post?
Because a) macro games on most of these maps aren't a thing and b) it's not like i haven't covered macro builds before...
a) Make it a thing with a good strategy guide on how to not die. That was the challenge. b) May very well be, but not regarding these maps. You may also have done allin strategies before, but this season just needs its own strategies because of the special maps.
I would have liked the option to choose between last season's map pool or Dreampool but alas we must stick with the pain. My poor poor ladder points will never forgive me, but at least I have a guide to lessen the pain.
haha I hope everyone will be inspired by this. I love blocking that sort of stuff. <3 dreampool. But November is the breaking games month. But I anyone can top Sonic Boom.
Ehhh Got around half way through until the writing style became unbearably annoying :C I'm used to reading this kind of writing style on reddit and in forum posts but I definitely didn't expect this from a strat article, even if its one with an angle like this.
On November 18 2014 04:39 DinoMight wrote: FUCK YOU TEOITA
THE ONE SEASON I TRY TO MACRO ROFL
You too? :D
Why would you even try to macro on these maps rofl Oo
You improve at something more when it's difficult. This is the BEST season to learn how to macro and not die.
Hmm that's not absurd, but since you'll face much more all-ins than with a regular map pool your macro experience will probably be limited to "scout and defend all-ins". That's not that bad though, it's a useful skill
On November 18 2014 04:11 fusefuse wrote: Ehhh Got around half way through until the writing style became unbearably annoying :C I'm used to reading this kind of writing style on reddit and in forum posts but I definitely didn't expect this from a strat article, even if its one with an angle like this.
Okay there are the cheeses, but in all honesty dreampool is simply great because as time passed by map pools became more and more conservative and dull, and did not even succeed in being balanced.
Moreover noone can say they were cheese proof either.
So all in all dreampool is just a bit cheesier, just a tad more broken,but at least there are fun and silly maps we can enjoy to play on and, most importantly they don't look all the same, with the same meta and the same opening over and over and over and over.
(still don't understand why some people voted Akilon though... )
I'm sad that my favorite Daybreak/Cloud Kingdom cheese isn't viable anymore...
PvT 1 base Mothership Rush with 4 gate. You send mothership into their main recall your army into their base, forcefield the ramp, warp in a pylon, and GG!
On November 18 2014 05:13 DinoMight wrote: I'm sad that my favorite Daybreak/Cloud Kingdom cheese isn't viable anymore...
PvT 1 base Mothership Rush with 4 gate. You send mothership into their main recall your army into their base, forcefield the ramp, warp in a pylon, and GG!
I actually would do that sometimes in WoL, surprisingly effective.
On November 18 2014 05:13 DinoMight wrote: I'm sad that my favorite Daybreak/Cloud Kingdom cheese isn't viable anymore...
PvT 1 base Mothership Rush with 4 gate. You send mothership into their main recall your army into their base, forcefield the ramp, warp in a pylon, and GG!
I actually would do that sometimes in WoL, surprisingly effective.
On November 18 2014 05:13 DinoMight wrote: I'm sad that my favorite Daybreak/Cloud Kingdom cheese isn't viable anymore...
PvT 1 base Mothership Rush with 4 gate. You send mothership into their main recall your army into their base, forcefield the ramp, warp in a pylon, and GG!
I actually would do that sometimes in WoL, surprisingly effective.
Mothership rush was my first sc2 ladder win. The guy saw it flying in his base, said "holy shit gg" and left.
On November 18 2014 05:13 DinoMight wrote: I'm sad that my favorite Daybreak/Cloud Kingdom cheese isn't viable anymore...
PvT 1 base Mothership Rush with 4 gate. You send mothership into their main recall your army into their base, forcefield the ramp, warp in a pylon, and GG!
I actually would do that sometimes in WoL, surprisingly effective.
Mothership rush was my first sc2 ladder win. The guy saw it flying in his base, said "holy shit gg" and left.
And you've been a cheesy bullshitter ever since... that game may have ruined you and many protoss who have listened to you.
This is pretty much what I was expecting. Oh well, it will be fun to take walk down memory using some of these builds (and of course having them used against you).
I played normal games on #dreampool and it was shit. Then I started all-inning every time from what I could remember of the past and the #dreampool experience improved. Now with this, it will be like on super smack! MUCH obliged!
I was sorely SORELY dissapointed that after that perfect protoss video when I scrolled down to zerg/terran, they didn't have similar videos in their sections.
Will be most more interesting to make an article on how to counter these cheeses, the guys on the ladder don't really need some idea to decide to cheese.
The sad thing is that maxing roach ,or roach hydra is pretty much a standard to stop all this bullshit, and it sucks because it is easy to stop , these maps are garbage and I am so mad that they brought all of them back.....the old map pool was so much nicer.....why does blizzard want people all inning more ....so stupid.......
The strength of the 1-1-1 was the map pool and short rush distances, the Nexus cannon doesn't change that if you include a Raven with PDD.
I'm certain it is impossible stop close spawns on Metalopolis. The first Banshee shows up at your base in essentially no time, and then tanks are sieging up your base only a few minutes later.
On November 18 2014 07:44 BronzeKnee wrote: Why is there no 1-1-1 build?
The strength of the 1-1-1 was the map pool and short rush distances, the Nexus cannon doesn't change that if you include a Raven with PDD.
I'm certain it is impossible stop close spawns on Metalopolis. The first Banshee shows up at your base in essentially no time, and then tanks are sieging up your base only a few minutes later.
Metalopolis is forced cross spawn, or at least no close by air
i'm not sure what's better - the ladder tears of people who have just been bullshitted or the forum tears of people who think TL has a responsibility to push the macro meta down people's throats XD so nice
in all seriousness 3 vetoes is more than enough to make this pool fine for standard play
On November 18 2014 08:02 brickrd wrote: i'm not sure what's better - the ladder tears of people who have just been bullshitted or the forum tears of people who think TL has a responsibility to push the macro meta down people's throats XD so nice
in all seriousness 3 vetoes is more than enough to make this pool fine for standard play
Because "Macro" play is actual skill, and not what gives you the win screen
this is sarcasm
IMO anything that gives you a win requires skill, be it macro or cheese
Ok a lot of these "old" build can still be used today, and some are harder to do on the older maps. Take the cannon rush illustration for example..yeah if you get that many pylons down to block paths to the cannons no shit its going to cancel/kill a hatch. The maps is the dream pool really aren't that bad or imbalanced on a whole. Just veto metal, shakuras, and xnc and the pool is pretty good imo.
My God I hate this map pool. Just cheese cheese cheese... I won/lost all games by cheese. Haven't played a single normal game. Who it the fucking right state of mind said "Hey this is good idea"??
And I love how ppl are talking about blink stalkers all-in as something imba. Fucking SH have range from natural to natural...
On November 18 2014 05:13 DinoMight wrote: I'm sad that my favorite Daybreak/Cloud Kingdom cheese isn't viable anymore...
PvT 1 base Mothership Rush with 4 gate. You send mothership into their main recall your army into their base, forcefield the ramp, warp in a pylon, and GG!
I actually would do that sometimes in WoL, surprisingly effective.
Mothership rush was my first sc2 ladder win. The guy saw it flying in his base, said "holy shit gg" and left.
On November 18 2014 07:44 BronzeKnee wrote: Why is there no 1-1-1 build?
The strength of the 1-1-1 was the map pool and short rush distances, the Nexus cannon doesn't change that if you include a Raven with PDD.
I'm certain it is impossible stop close spawns on Metalopolis. The first Banshee shows up at your base in essentially no time, and then tanks are sieging up your base only a few minutes later.
Metalopolis is forced cross spawn, or at least no close by air
Doesn't excuse the lack of a 1-1-1 build honestly.
The problem with cannon rushing in HOTS is that low ground pylons can't power high ground cannons. That really limits what the Protoss can do. I used to execute great cannon rushes versus Zerg on Shakuras against their natural that way.
As a person just learning to play, I found that blink stalkers have become my worst nightmare. I like hording my probes; the stalkers like rubbing their poor little eye cameras in the dirt.
Busting Terrans on Metalopolis is my new favourite hobby. Basically, you deny the scout, scout for bullshit, hope for greed, build units and succeed. Haven't lost too many games on that map vs. T. Xel'Naga is also ridiculous.
On November 18 2014 10:50 Pringworm wrote: As a person just learning to play, I found that blink stalkers have become my worst nightmare. I like hording my probes; the stalkers like rubbing their poor little eye cameras in the dirt.
haha blink stalkers can be a pain to deal with for new players. I suggest you just go dark templar everygame for free wins in PvP
On November 18 2014 09:20 n1kon82 wrote: My God I hate this map pool. Just cheese cheese cheese... I won/lost all games by cheese. Haven't played a single normal game. Who it the fucking right state of mind said "Hey this is good idea"??
And I love how ppl are talking about blink stalkers all-in as something imba. Fucking SH have range from natural to natural...
SH have that range on 3 maps..and by god you get 3 vetoes..the math is real
Just play cloud, daybreak, akilon, and ohana and this pool is actually really nice. 2/4 of those were used on hots ladder anyways, and the other two were used in the last season of WOL. I dont understand why people are acting like Blizzard is forcing us to play on all WOL beta maps T_T
On November 18 2014 07:44 BronzeKnee wrote: Why is there no 1-1-1 build?
The strength of the 1-1-1 was the map pool and short rush distances, the Nexus cannon doesn't change that if you include a Raven with PDD.
I'm certain it is impossible stop close spawns on Metalopolis. The first Banshee shows up at your base in essentially no time, and then tanks are sieging up your base only a few minutes later.
Metalopolis is forced cross spawn, or at least no close by air
Doesn't excuse the lack of a 1-1-1 build honestly.
The problem with cannon rushing in HOTS is that low ground pylons can't power high ground cannons. That really limits what the Protoss can do. I used to execute great cannon rushes versus Zerg on Shakuras against their natural that way.
Well, 50% of this article is sarcasm, the other half is trolling really
Back in WoL we knew how to defend all these cheese, and they are not more powerful now.
And in the other hand do you really think last season was lacking 11/11 rax and bullshit?
On November 18 2014 16:24 GGzerG wrote: Haha dinomight........ I hope we get to play again....I still remember our game, perfect for this thread, except 10 pool wasn't on the list
How did our game go again? I can't find you in my history.
On November 18 2014 16:24 GGzerG wrote: Haha dinomight........ I hope we get to play again....I still remember our game, perfect for this thread, except 10 pool wasn't on the list
How did our game go again? I can't find you in my history.
Btw I remember a PvP on Ohanna with MC canon rushing his opponent who scouted it late but had an incredible defense with salker micro that totally anihilated MC.
Looked for the vod but could not find it cause I don't remember the opponent not the event, anyone remembers that game?
Wohoo, finally another article that tells players to do unmotivated bullshit. More DotA time for me then, not interested in beating the shit out of people who can't even follow a simple Soul Train build order "but TL told me it is so good on this map".
At this point it feels like people wanting the old maps not to play out well, rather than them being bad. Why can't you just make an article that analyzes the maps and says something like Veto Xel Naga, veto Metalopolis if you're Protoss, veto Ohana if you're Zerg and play normal and everything will work out more or less fine?
On November 18 2014 03:36 The_Templar wrote: Meanwhile, I decide I should play macro this season... I'm doomed aren't I
LOL This ^^.... Meanwhile my highly practiced and well executed 3OC Hellion build is now irrelevant. Really laughed hard at this part:
"Honestly, dear Terran/Protoss, do you really expect to hold your natural on Metalopolis and Xel'Naga Caverns? That's so cute"
Yes this is interesting because this season I was gonna focus on macro'ing like a boss... turns out I'm gonna be holding cheese and bullshit all season... Wait... That's the same every season. lol.
On November 18 2014 19:48 Big J wrote: Wohoo, finally another article that tells players to do unmotivated bullshit. More DotA time for me then, not interested in beating the shit out of people who can't even follow a simple Soul Train build order "but TL told me it is so good on this map".
At this point it feels like people wanting the old maps not to play out well, rather than them being bad. Why can't you just make an article that analyzes the maps and says something like Veto Xel Naga, veto Metalopolis if you're Protoss, veto Ohana if you're Zerg and play normal and everything will work out more or less fine?
If you can't see the tongue in cheek in the OP, then yes you need to take a break
On November 18 2014 19:48 Big J wrote: Wohoo, finally another article that tells players to do unmotivated bullshit. More DotA time for me then, not interested in beating the shit out of people who can't even follow a simple Soul Train build order "but TL told me it is so good on this map".
At this point it feels like people wanting the old maps not to play out well, rather than them being bad. Why can't you just make an article that analyzes the maps and says something like Veto Xel Naga, veto Metalopolis if you're Protoss, veto Ohana if you're Zerg and play normal and everything will work out more or less fine?
If you can't see the tongue in cheek in the OP, then yes you need to take a break
Not sure if you read it. For me it sounds like the OP praises the showcased builds as ridiculously strong, when they simply aren't thaaaat good.
On November 18 2014 19:48 Big J wrote: Wohoo, finally another article that tells players to do unmotivated bullshit. More DotA time for me then, not interested in beating the shit out of people who can't even follow a simple Soul Train build order "but TL told me it is so good on this map".
At this point it feels like people wanting the old maps not to play out well, rather than them being bad. Why can't you just make an article that analyzes the maps and says something like Veto Xel Naga, veto Metalopolis if you're Protoss, veto Ohana if you're Zerg and play normal and everything will work out more or less fine?
If you can't see the tongue in cheek in the OP, then yes you need to take a break
Not sure if you read it. For me it sounds like the OP praises the showcased builds as ridiculously strong, when they simply aren't thaaaat good.
Also, there is a manly build that Losira made it back in the day: the infamous 5 roach ling bust:
9 ovie 14 gas 14 pool 15 ovie 21 hatch (cut drone production at 22) queen, ling x1 @100% min: roach warren. @100 gas: ling speed make like 2+ ovies keep 2 drones on gas @125 gas: cut all drones off gas. make 5 roaches and all larvae into speedlings
On November 18 2014 07:44 BronzeKnee wrote: Why is there no 1-1-1 build?
The strength of the 1-1-1 was the map pool and short rush distances, the Nexus cannon doesn't change that if you include a Raven with PDD.
I'm certain it is impossible stop close spawns on Metalopolis. The first Banshee shows up at your base in essentially no time, and then tanks are sieging up your base only a few minutes later.
Metalopolis is forced cross spawn, or at least no close by air
Doesn't excuse the lack of a 1-1-1 build honestly.
The problem with cannon rushing in HOTS is that low ground pylons can't power high ground cannons. That really limits what the Protoss can do. I used to execute great cannon rushes versus Zerg on Shakuras against their natural that way.
Well, 50% of this article is sarcasm, the other half is trolling really
Back in WoL we knew how to defend all these cheese, and they are not more powerful now.
And in the other hand do you really think last season was lacking 11/11 rax and bullshit?
well back in wol yes but nowadays if u open up a wol build and the enemy f.e. TvP protoss goes fast oracle ur simply dead... wings of liberty times are over, and just old maps dont bring it back... they just put the kinda sloppy balance on even worse balanced maps... well done blizz, at least they gave me a heroes key so i dont have to play this season...
This season is interesting because we have no pro guidelines to go by - pros are still playing real maps - and we have to come up with our own builds. The maps are all glaringly broken when you consider the last map pool's meta and the new HotS units so cheese will reign supreme.
Doesn't matter how broken Swarm Hosts are on Daybreak if they never get a Lair. At least that's how I'm playing it! <3 <3 <3
On November 19 2014 00:42 DinoMight wrote: This season is interesting because we have no pro guidelines to go by - pros are still playing real maps - and we have to come up with our own builds. The maps are all glaringly broken when you consider the last map pool's meta and the new HotS units so cheese will reign supreme.
Doesn't matter how broken Swarm Hosts are on Daybreak if they never get a Lair. At least that's how I'm playing it! <3 <3 <3
On November 18 2014 03:30 TL Strategy wrote: ...by going proxy oracle into proxy void ray into 4gate into proxy tempest into cannon contain into proxy nexus. Like a true warrior of Aiur. Anyway, as it turns out, this kind of bullshit would actually be legit on maps where you can use your tempests/oracle to harass the Terran mineral line as well as his ramp defense...you know, older maps like Metalopolis, Cloud Kingdom, Daybreak, maybe Shakuras... Too bad they aren't...oh wait. RIP terran.
Ahhh, now we return to the forever daunting question of how one possibly stops a perfectly executed Soul Train as a Zerg. Fun stuff, the unbeatable strategy T_T.
On November 18 2014 16:24 GGzerG wrote: Haha dinomight........ I hope we get to play again....I still remember our game, perfect for this thread, except 10 pool wasn't on the list
How did our game go again? I can't find you in my history.
10p is bad against me cuz I always gate expand :p
Im EverZtelecoM , we played many times in play / obs games....your bm in game --
On November 18 2014 22:12 Apoteosis wrote: Where is my 7RR on Xel'Naga Caverns? lol
Also, there is a manly build that Losira made it back in the day: the infamous 5 roach ling bust:
9 ovie 14 gas 14 pool 15 ovie 21 hatch (cut drone production at 22) queen, ling x1 @100% min: roach warren. @100 gas: ling speed make like 2+ ovies keep 2 drones on gas @125 gas: cut all drones off gas. make 5 roaches and all larvae into speedlings
pls help me out with the VODs
I WAS TOTALLY THINNING ABOUT THIS BUILD! However, seems like it gets shut down by msc (I'd assume).
On November 19 2014 07:18 Xinzoe wrote: just won 4 PvZ's in a row with that cannon rush at the third on cloud kingdom. thanks teoita for the free ladder points
I've learned already that 75% of games against protoss this season are gonna start with a cannon rush. At least I know where to check for them now
On November 19 2014 07:26 zelevin wrote: You didn't include the nifty cannon rush on Akilon where you build one cannon at the third and then build cannons at the natural.
I totally forgot about that one as did everyone ele.
On November 19 2014 16:37 ZombieFrog wrote: RIP all macro play on ladder for this season. Cept swarmhosts i suppose.
Akilon, Shakuras, Daybreak, CK are all very strong macro maps for Protoss.
No they're not. They're absolutely terrible macro maps vs terran (except for Akilon), and absolutely terrible for PvSwarmhost (except CK).
Swarm Hosts haven't broken a single map in HotS. It's the same song Protoss players have been singing since the start of HotS. Anytime Swarm Hosts are good on a map, "they are broken", because you guys just don't want to play against them. Daybreak might be the one and only exception due to the middle base setup, and even that one isn't that different to King Sejong.
On November 19 2014 16:37 ZombieFrog wrote: RIP all macro play on ladder for this season. Cept swarmhosts i suppose.
Akilon, Shakuras, Daybreak, CK are all very strong macro maps for Protoss.
No they're not. They're absolutely terrible macro maps vs terran (except for Akilon), and absolutely terrible for PvSwarmhost (except CK).
Swarm Hosts haven't broken a single map in HotS. It's the same song Protoss players have been singing since the start of HotS. Anytime Swarm Hosts are good on a map, "they are broken", because you guys just don't want to play against them. Daybreak might be the one and only exception due to the middle base setup, and even that one isn't that different to King Sejong.
And where exactly was it said that Swarm Hosts broke any of these maps? They're extremely strong on them. Just like blink all ins are extremely strong on some, but not broken. Basically anytime zerg can put Swarmhosts in one central spot and split the map in half, that's when it's a good Swarmhost map. Let's look at all these maps!
-> Akilon? Only one attack path through the middle? Protoss having to expand towards zerg? Good SH map. Not an excellent one since there's lots of air space on the sides to use warp prisms, but still. With enough static defense it gets extremely hard for protoss to break through, especially since their lategame expansions are almost automatically sieged by SHs.
-> Ohana? Good lord. Two tight attack paths through the middle, protoss expanding towards zerg? This map is SH heaven.
-> Daybreak? Sit swarmhosts at the watchtower in the middle, protoss has to expand towards you? SH heaven.
-> CK? Lots of attack paths to swing around a SH army, lots of space to put up pylons and fly around with prisms. Protoss doesn't necessarily have to expand towards zerg. Short rush distance though, which makes sieging protoss bases easier. Probably the best map to deal with SHs as protoss.
-> Shakuras? One attack path through the middle. Protoss expands towards you or has to take the far away bases, which means they have to expose their army in the middle of the map. SH heaven. Just make sure to have enough static defense in the main to deal with blink-ins or prisms.
-> Metalopolis? Irrelevant since protoss can't hold a third, sometimes not even a natural. Would be a fantastic SH map.
-> Xelnaga? Irrelevant for the same reasons, but would be a fantastic SH map.
And where exactly was it said that Swarm Hosts broke any of these maps? They're extremely strong on them. Just like blink all ins are extremely strong on some, but not broken. Basically anytime zerg can put Swarmhosts in one central spot and split the map in half, that's when it's a good Swarmhost map. Let's look at all these maps!
If they aren't too strong, then I don't see your point in arguing that the maps are terrible for Protoss vs Swarm Hosts.
Akilon and Daybreak both allow you to take 4bases before you have to expand towards the Swarm Hosts. Akilon is 49-51 for ZvP btw and really doesn't have a reputation as "Protoss allins or Swarm Hosts win" map. Shakuras the first 4bases are nearly for free if you take the pocket expansion and then the one behind the rocks. The entrances are tiny which makes Swarm Hosts nearly useless against them. From there it is a Skytoss and Warp Prism paradise, given how close the distances from your 4th to the Zergs later expansions or main bases are. It's actually a Swarm Host hell against Prisms, because you just can't really defend more than 3-4bases properly as Zerg there, while the moment you go swarm hosts the Protoss can take the other side of his half for free. CK as you said isn't too strong for SHs to begin with. Ohana has always been a crap map and the only reason why it stayed so long was that it was the only map with balanced or even slightly P/T favored winrates against Zerg during BL/Infestor. Which tells us a lot how broken that map actually always was (unless of course you consider BL/Infestor balanced...) Metal and XNC are of course crapmaps and should be vetoed by every Protoss player.
On November 19 2014 16:37 ZombieFrog wrote: RIP all macro play on ladder for this season. Cept swarmhosts i suppose.
Akilon, Shakuras, Daybreak, CK are all very strong macro maps for Protoss.
No they're not. They're absolutely terrible macro maps vs terran (except for Akilon), and absolutely terrible for PvSwarmhost (except CK).
Swarm Hosts haven't broken a single map in HotS. It's the same song Protoss players have been singing since the start of HotS. Anytime Swarm Hosts are good on a map, "they are broken", because you guys just don't want to play against them. Daybreak might be the one and only exception due to the middle base setup, and even that one isn't that different to King Sejong.
And where exactly was it said that Swarm Hosts broke any of these maps? They're extremely strong on them. Just like blink all ins are extremely strong on some, but not broken. Basically anytime zerg can put Swarmhosts in one central spot and split the map in half, that's when it's a good Swarmhost map. Let's look at all these maps!
-> Akilon? Only one attack path through the middle? Protoss having to expand towards zerg? Good SH map. Not an excellent one since there's lots of air space on the sides to use warp prisms, but still. With enough static defense it gets extremely hard for protoss to break through, especially since their lategame expansions are almost automatically sieged by SHs.
-> Ohana? Good lord. Two tight attack paths through the middle, protoss expanding towards zerg? This map is SH heaven.
-> Daybreak? Sit swarmhosts at the watchtower in the middle, protoss has to expand towards you? SH heaven.
-> CK? Lots of attack paths to swing around a SH army, lots of space to put up pylons and fly around with prisms. Protoss doesn't necessarily have to expand towards zerg. Short rush distance though, which makes sieging protoss bases easier. Probably the best map to deal with SHs as protoss.
-> Shakuras? One attack path through the middle. Protoss expands towards you or has to take the far away bases, which means they have to expose their army in the middle of the map. SH heaven. Just make sure to have enough static defense in the main to deal with blink-ins or prisms.
-> Metalopolis? Irrelevant since protoss can't hold a third, sometimes not even a natural. Would be a fantastic SH map.
-> Xelnaga? Irrelevant for the same reasons, but would be a fantastic SH map.
Swarm Hosts are better for cheese on this map than they are for actual play. There are a few places you can put them where they can hit every single base on the map.
I can't tell you how many proxy hatcheries I'm seeing. Used to be that I would get to their base and see no pool and expect a hatch first / greedy build. Now I start scouting for proxies :/
On November 19 2014 23:20 DinoMight wrote: Swarm Hosts are better for cheese on this map than they are for actual play. There are a few places you can put them where they can hit every single base on the map.
I can't tell you how many proxy hatcheries I'm seeing. Used to be that I would get to their base and see no pool and expect a hatch first / greedy build. Now I start scouting for proxies :/
-_____-
Early game SC2 is so fucked up. Cheese is nice when it is something that actually metagames an opponent. It's so stupid when these builds just work decently against everything.
I like how protoss and terran have an array of potentially game breaking cheeses and all ins and zergs have the same two we've always had + swarm hosts. Nightmare pool TT
On November 19 2014 16:08 Cool C wrote: I would also like some new team player maps for chrismas blizzard. Snow decorated plz. For the noobs santa, for the noobs.
On November 19 2014 16:08 Cool C wrote: I would also like some new team player maps for chrismas blizzard. Snow decorated plz. For the noobs santa, for the noobs.
And bring back Frost
And bring back HATS! My inner TF2 player needs it again. I want my queens to have little santa hats
On November 19 2014 16:08 Cool C wrote: I would also like some new team player maps for chrismas blizzard. Snow decorated plz. For the noobs santa, for the noobs.
And bring back Frost
And bring back HATS! My inner TF2 player needs it again. I want my queens to have little santa hats
The birthday celebration hats were so annoying lol.
On November 19 2014 16:08 Cool C wrote: I would also like some new team player maps for chrismas blizzard. Snow decorated plz. For the noobs santa, for the noobs.
And bring back Frost
And bring back HATS! My inner TF2 player needs it again. I want my queens to have little santa hats
The birthday celebration hats were so annoying lol.
well i dont think that the swarmhost usage is that good on this maps. everybody can put some Swarmhosts on a picture of a map and call it "a good Swarmhost map" then ....
On November 20 2014 01:22 Heartland wrote: What on earth should you do PvZ on Xel'naga or Metalopolis? 10-gate into 3-gate?
Pylon, Gateway, Double, Gas, Pylon, Cyber, Robo, Twilight, Dark Shrine, 3 more gates (all in your main).
Make 2 Immortals in a Warp Prism and send it over (start warp prism first because you won't have gas). Drop the Immortals, snipe the spore, warp in 4 DTs, kill everything in his main.
Then add a Colossus den and expand.
Works in Diamond :p
EDIT - Works against Terran too. Snipe Turret, then tech labs, then reactors. Then go for worker kills. With some micro he runs out of scans pretty fast.
On November 20 2014 01:22 Heartland wrote: What on earth should you do PvZ on Xel'naga or Metalopolis? 10-gate into 3-gate?
Pylon, Gateway, Double, Gas, Pylon, Cyber, Robo, Twilight, Dark Shrine, 3 more gates (all in your main).
Make 2 Immortals in a Warp Prism and send it over (start warp prism first because you won't have gas). Drop the Immortals, snipe the spore, warp in 4 DTs, kill everything in his main.
Then add a Colossus den and expand.
Works in Diamond :p
EDIT - Works against Terran too.
Brilliant. I also like how you call it a colossus "den"
On November 20 2014 01:22 Heartland wrote: What on earth should you do PvZ on Xel'naga or Metalopolis? 10-gate into 3-gate?
Pylon, Gateway, Double, Gas, Pylon, Cyber, Robo, Twilight, Dark Shrine, 3 more gates (all in your main).
Make 2 Immortals in a Warp Prism and send it over (start warp prism first because you won't have gas). Drop the Immortals, snipe the spore, warp in 4 DTs, kill everything in his main.
Then add a Colossus den and expand.
Works in Diamond :p
EDIT - Works against Terran too.
Brilliant. I also like how you call it a colossus "den"
Haha. I think I picked it up from Day9.
Also, don't cut probes with this. You simply "delay" your natural. But you're almost guaranteed to kill his main (if not end the game outright). So should be pretty even and you'll have something to defend your expansion with . Expand, transfer probes, and you're ahead!
On November 20 2014 01:22 Heartland wrote: What on earth should you do PvZ on Xel'naga or Metalopolis? 10-gate into 3-gate?
Pylon, Gateway, Double, Gas, Pylon, Cyber, Robo, Twilight, Dark Shrine, 3 more gates (all in your main).
Make 2 Immortals in a Warp Prism and send it over (start warp prism first because you won't have gas). Drop the Immortals, snipe the spore, warp in 4 DTs, kill everything in his main.
Then add a Colossus den and expand.
Works in Diamond :p
EDIT - Works against Terran too. Snipe Turret, then tech labs, then reactors. Then go for worker kills. With some micro he runs out of scans pretty fast.
That sounds pure evil and makes me wanna cry. I think I'd quit if I got cheesed that hard.
On November 20 2014 01:22 Heartland wrote: What on earth should you do PvZ on Xel'naga or Metalopolis? 10-gate into 3-gate?
Pylon, Gateway, Double, Gas, Pylon, Cyber, Robo, Twilight, Dark Shrine, 3 more gates (all in your main).
Make 2 Immortals in a Warp Prism and send it over (start warp prism first because you won't have gas). Drop the Immortals, snipe the spore, warp in 4 DTs, kill everything in his main.
Then add a Colossus den and expand.
Works in Diamond :p
EDIT - Works against Terran too.
Brilliant. I also like how you call it a colossus "den"
Haha. I think I picked it up from Day9.
Also, don't cut probes with this. You simply "delay" your natural. But you're almost guaranteed to kill his main (if not end the game outright). So should be pretty even and you'll have something to defend your expansion with . Expand, transfer probes, and you're ahead!
On November 20 2014 01:22 Heartland wrote: What on earth should you do PvZ on Xel'naga or Metalopolis? 10-gate into 3-gate?
Pylon, Gateway, Double, Gas, Pylon, Cyber, Robo, Twilight, Dark Shrine, 3 more gates (all in your main).
Make 2 Immortals in a Warp Prism and send it over (start warp prism first because you won't have gas). Drop the Immortals, snipe the spore, warp in 4 DTs, kill everything in his main.
Then add a Colossus den and expand.
Works in Diamond :p
EDIT - Works against Terran too. Snipe Turret, then tech labs, then reactors. Then go for worker kills. With some micro he runs out of scans pretty fast.
That sounds pure evil and makes me wanna cry. I think I'd quit if I got cheesed that hard.
You wouldn't be the first lol. Did it a few times yesterday on ladder but I don't think I was streaming. I'll try to get a VOD or something.
On November 20 2014 01:22 Heartland wrote: What on earth should you do PvZ on Xel'naga or Metalopolis? 10-gate into 3-gate?
Pylon, Gateway, Double, Gas, Pylon, Cyber, Robo, Twilight, Dark Shrine, 3 more gates (all in your main).
Make 2 Immortals in a Warp Prism and send it over (start warp prism first because you won't have gas). Drop the Immortals, snipe the spore, warp in 4 DTs, kill everything in his main.
Then add a Colossus den and expand.
Works in Diamond :p
EDIT - Works against Terran too.
Brilliant. I also like how you call it a colossus "den"
Haha. I think I picked it up from Day9.
Also, don't cut probes with this. You simply "delay" your natural. But you're almost guaranteed to kill his main (if not end the game outright). So should be pretty even and you'll have something to defend your expansion with . Expand, transfer probes, and you're ahead!
3-3 workers in gas from the start?
15 double gas with 3 on each yeah.
EDIT - let me add that it works ESPECIALLY WELL when they scout your DTs because they go AH, I got this, smile, and plop down 2 spores rather than giving this build the respect it deserves. As in, don't even bother trying to hide your Dark Shrine. I built it right in a Reaper's face and still won.
BUT, DO HIDE YOUR IMMORTALS. Most people think this is just a DT drop (it looks like one). You make the warp prism first and park it over your Robo then rally the Robo into the Warp Prism so they never see the Immortals.
But you should really just veto both those maps because they're both awful.
EDIT:
I know people like to complain about #DreamPool but as a Protoss you can play on Cloud Kingdom, Ohana, Daybreak and Akilon in a very normal manner. The same goes for Zerg (watch out for Immortal/Sentry on the first two maps mentioned) and more-or-less goes for Terran with the disclaimer that Blink all-ins are retarded on Cloud Kingdom.
You have 3 vetoes from 7 maps and I listed 4 maps. You do the math!
I am playing on CK, Ohana, Daybreak, and Akilon as Protoss.
Every single game is cheese. It becomes really hard to play standard when literally everyone is cheesing you. So you try to one up their cheese with better cheese and the ladder turns into a cheesefest.
On November 20 2014 01:22 Heartland wrote: What on earth should you do PvZ on Xel'naga or Metalopolis? 10-gate into 3-gate?
Pylon, Gateway, Double, Gas, Pylon, Cyber, Robo, Twilight, Dark Shrine, 3 more gates (all in your main).
Make 2 Immortals in a Warp Prism and send it over (start warp prism first because you won't have gas). Drop the Immortals, snipe the spore, warp in 4 DTs, kill everything in his main.
Then add a Colossus den and expand.
Works in Diamond :p
EDIT - Works against Terran too. Snipe Turret, then tech labs, then reactors. Then go for worker kills. With some micro he runs out of scans pretty fast.
That sounds pure evil and makes me wanna cry. I think I'd quit if I got cheesed that hard.
Really? Encountering a build like that would reassure me that people in gold have an inkling of strategy
On November 20 2014 01:22 Heartland wrote: What on earth should you do PvZ on Xel'naga or Metalopolis? 10-gate into 3-gate?
Pylon, Gateway, Double, Gas, Pylon, Cyber, Robo, Twilight, Dark Shrine, 3 more gates (all in your main).
Make 2 Immortals in a Warp Prism and send it over (start warp prism first because you won't have gas). Drop the Immortals, snipe the spore, warp in 4 DTs, kill everything in his main.
Then add a Colossus den and expand.
Works in Diamond :p
EDIT - Works against Terran too. Snipe Turret, then tech labs, then reactors. Then go for worker kills. With some micro he runs out of scans pretty fast.
That sounds pure evil and makes me wanna cry. I think I'd quit if I got cheesed that hard.
Really? Encountering a build like that would reassure me that people in gold have an inkling of strategy
We don't. Which is why I'd lose to that so hard it'd make me cry.
But you should really just veto both those maps because they're both awful.
EDIT:
I know people like to complain about #DreamPool but as a Protoss you can play on Cloud Kingdom, Ohana, Daybreak and Akilon in a very normal manner. The same goes for Zerg (watch out for Immortal/Sentry on the first two maps mentioned) and more-or-less goes for Terran with the disclaimer that Blink all-ins are retarded on Cloud Kingdom.
You have 3 vetoes from 7 maps and I listed 4 maps. You do the math!
Exactly this. And as a Zerg if you don't want to play Ohana either you can still just take Metalopolis instead and play normal without a disadvantage for you.
On November 20 2014 01:22 Heartland wrote: What on earth should you do PvZ on Xel'naga or Metalopolis? 10-gate into 3-gate?
Pylon, Gateway, Double, Gas, Pylon, Cyber, Robo, Twilight, Dark Shrine, 3 more gates (all in your main).
Make 2 Immortals in a Warp Prism and send it over (start warp prism first because you won't have gas). Drop the Immortals, snipe the spore, warp in 4 DTs, kill everything in his main.
Then add a Colossus den and expand.
Works in Diamond :p
EDIT - Works against Terran too. Snipe Turret, then tech labs, then reactors. Then go for worker kills. With some micro he runs out of scans pretty fast.
On November 20 2014 01:22 Heartland wrote: What on earth should you do PvZ on Xel'naga or Metalopolis? 10-gate into 3-gate?
Pylon, Gateway, Double, Gas, Pylon, Cyber, Robo, Twilight, Dark Shrine, 3 more gates (all in your main).
Make 2 Immortals in a Warp Prism and send it over (start warp prism first because you won't have gas). Drop the Immortals, snipe the spore, warp in 4 DTs, kill everything in his main.
Then add a Colossus den and expand.
Works in Diamond :p
EDIT - Works against Terran too. Snipe Turret, then tech labs, then reactors. Then go for worker kills. With some micro he runs out of scans pretty fast.
I like you
The True Prophet of the Book of Protoss Bullshit has spoken, DinoMight is the new bonjwa.
On November 20 2014 01:22 Heartland wrote: What on earth should you do PvZ on Xel'naga or Metalopolis? 10-gate into 3-gate?
Pylon, Gateway, Double, Gas, Pylon, Cyber, Robo, Twilight, Dark Shrine, 3 more gates (all in your main).
Make 2 Immortals in a Warp Prism and send it over (start warp prism first because you won't have gas). Drop the Immortals, snipe the spore, warp in 4 DTs, kill everything in his main.
Then add a Colossus den and expand.
Works in Diamond :p
EDIT - Works against Terran too. Snipe Turret, then tech labs, then reactors. Then go for worker kills. With some micro he runs out of scans pretty fast.
I like you
I'm flattered. It means a lot, coming from the man who literally wrote the book on Protoss bullshit.
Please note that with these air & close maps you can do NaNiwa builds - +1 warp prism all in from 7 or 8 gates(depends on how many probes you chronoed - I prefer to have lower gate number but faster WG/+1)
Basically you have 2 gases, proxy pylon at their 3rd and +1 done(chrono +1 and warp gate 1 or 2 times, it si desired to have 16 probes at your natural though) and warp prism in their main(super awesome on Akilon(huge main, hard to see warp prism), Ohana(because rocks), Shakuras(huge main, also you can warp in from warp prism into 3rd and main at the same time - super trolling), Cloud Kingdom(far 3rd, no creep connection, long travel between 3rd and main)).
If you hide the WP and can warp in 7 or 8 zealots, you have won. Keep it hidden, next round warp in stalkers, zealots at proxy pylon and attack 3rd. In this moment is zerg in panic mode and a-moves to the 3rd. Now attack main hatch with zealots. Zerg goes super mad and a-moves back. Reinforce zealots at main. Kill main and natural, tech, whatever the situation is.
This works greatly with gateway expand into 4gate into pokes with MSC into this bullshit. Usually I can snipe 1 hatch, tech building. If I snipe lair and pool(yes, I managed to do that) I laugh super hard. Though I do FFE, because this way I need less APM which rages zerg more
Enjoy. The build orders are somewhere in HotS strategy, search for NaNiwa They may be from WoL, not sure
Also for the effect you can force field the ramp, but there is usually not enough gas
On November 20 2014 01:22 Heartland wrote: What on earth should you do PvZ on Xel'naga or Metalopolis? 10-gate into 3-gate?
Pylon, Gateway, Double, Gas, Pylon, Cyber, Robo, Twilight, Dark Shrine, 3 more gates (all in your main).
Make 2 Immortals in a Warp Prism and send it over (start warp prism first because you won't have gas). Drop the Immortals, snipe the spore, warp in 4 DTs, kill everything in his main.
Then add a Colossus den and expand.
Works in Diamond :p
EDIT - Works against Terran too. Snipe Turret, then tech labs, then reactors. Then go for worker kills. With some micro he runs out of scans pretty fast.
This sounds so great but my opponents scout :S I guess I have to keep trying :D
On November 19 2014 16:37 ZombieFrog wrote: RIP all macro play on ladder for this season. Cept swarmhosts i suppose.
the good thing is that those who cheesed will probably drop 1-2 leagues next season.
None of this is cheese, FYI. It's all-in play. All-ins are not cheese.
All-ins =/= cheese, but many of the described builds do rely on lack of information for the opponent/being unexpected, in which case they are cheeses by the definition of cheese: Cheese most often refers to an unexpected strategy that relies in large parts on lack of information and/or psychological impact on the opponent - Liquipedia
okay, so far i haven't won my cheeses either. funny enough, i think its actually barely balanced enough that you really have to be a decent cheeser or maybe stumble upon the one or two really unbalanced cheese to get certain wins.
it is however a slower transition to macro games: ex opening hatch pool, or pool hatch, instead of hatch hatch. and scouting at 9 or 12 seems to be required.
Ugh these maps promote SH so much. Not kidding, I lost a game to a zerg who was 1 base (after maxing out, killed everything else) with around 170 supply on Daybreak. I had 200/200, over $10k minerals and around $4k gas in the bank, with carrier / archon / templar /mothership and still somehow lost, couldn't take any of the middle bases vs SH.
To note, I'm really bad against SH play, but it was sooo lame.
On November 20 2014 01:22 Heartland wrote: What on earth should you do PvZ on Xel'naga or Metalopolis? 10-gate into 3-gate?
Pylon, Gateway, Double, Gas, Pylon, Cyber, Robo, Twilight, Dark Shrine, 3 more gates (all in your main).
Make 2 Immortals in a Warp Prism and send it over (start warp prism first because you won't have gas). Drop the Immortals, snipe the spore, warp in 4 DTs, kill everything in his main.
Then add a Colossus den and expand.
Works in Diamond :p
EDIT - Works against Terran too. Snipe Turret, then tech labs, then reactors. Then go for worker kills. With some micro he runs out of scans pretty fast.
This sounds so great but my opponents scout :S I guess I have to keep trying :D
On November 20 2014 01:22 Heartland wrote: What on earth should you do PvZ on Xel'naga or Metalopolis? 10-gate into 3-gate?
Pylon, Gateway, Double, Gas, Pylon, Cyber, Robo, Twilight, Dark Shrine, 3 more gates (all in your main).
Make 2 Immortals in a Warp Prism and send it over (start warp prism first because you won't have gas). Drop the Immortals, snipe the spore, warp in 4 DTs, kill everything in his main.
Then add a Colossus den and expand.
Works in Diamond :p
EDIT - Works against Terran too. Snipe Turret, then tech labs, then reactors. Then go for worker kills. With some micro he runs out of scans pretty fast.
This sounds so great but my opponents scout :S I guess I have to keep trying :D
Keep trying, it's all about micro.
it really isn't if your WP arrives in their base and it is greeted by huge flock of roaches and speelings with 2 overseers on top
On November 20 2014 01:22 Heartland wrote: What on earth should you do PvZ on Xel'naga or Metalopolis? 10-gate into 3-gate?
Pylon, Gateway, Double, Gas, Pylon, Cyber, Robo, Twilight, Dark Shrine, 3 more gates (all in your main).
Make 2 Immortals in a Warp Prism and send it over (start warp prism first because you won't have gas). Drop the Immortals, snipe the spore, warp in 4 DTs, kill everything in his main.
Then add a Colossus den and expand.
Works in Diamond :p
EDIT - Works against Terran too. Snipe Turret, then tech labs, then reactors. Then go for worker kills. With some micro he runs out of scans pretty fast.
This sounds so great but my opponents scout :S I guess I have to keep trying :D
Keep trying, it's all about micro.
it really isn't if your WP arrives in their base and it is greeted by huge flock of roaches and speelings with 2 overseers on top
This is when you just call them a hacker and leave :p
But you have to at least try and sell the idea that you're trying to expand, move your msc out, build a pylon or something on the low ground... if you time the build well you should def be able to do some damage.
Or you can try to take your natural and harass with the warp prism for a while (yeah you'll be behind but if you never stop probing which you shouldn't you can still claw your way back into the game).
It's reaping macro players because of incredible pressure you can put early on in those maps with wide open ledges and also is good to adapt and defend the popular cheeses (like blink allin) because of the 3 rax setup. I am so far in 18-1 in diamond ladder with that :D.
On November 20 2014 01:22 Heartland wrote: What on earth should you do PvZ on Xel'naga or Metalopolis? 10-gate into 3-gate?
Pylon, Gateway, Double, Gas, Pylon, Cyber, Robo, Twilight, Dark Shrine, 3 more gates (all in your main).
Make 2 Immortals in a Warp Prism and send it over (start warp prism first because you won't have gas). Drop the Immortals, snipe the spore, warp in 4 DTs, kill everything in his main.
Then add a Colossus den and expand.
Works in Diamond :p
EDIT - Works against Terran too. Snipe Turret, then tech labs, then reactors. Then go for worker kills. With some micro he runs out of scans pretty fast.
That sounds like pure fun haha. 100% awesome and 100% dirty.
On November 28 2014 17:48 ZenithM wrote: Haha I didn't even think about how SH are completely ridiculous on some older maps. Good stuff.
Meh, I can't win anything with them. Maps like Shakuras and Metal are so tight, the Ts/Ps I meet there are all comfortable just sitting behind tanks and Colossi and bunker up unbeatable air armies. You need like 10tanks to shut down infinite supply of Swarm Hosts, which leaves 170supply for Ravens... And on those maps I can't take bases on their side and mine them out.
On November 28 2014 17:48 ZenithM wrote: Haha I didn't even think about how SH are completely ridiculous on some older maps. Good stuff.
Meh, I can't win anything with them. Maps like Shakuras and Metal are so tight, the Ts/Ps I meet there are all comfortable just sitting behind tanks and Colossi and bunker up unbeatable air armies. You need like 10tanks to shut down infinite supply of Swarm Hosts, which leaves 170supply for Ravens... And on those maps I can't take bases on their side and mine them out.
Huh that sounds like...fun games :D
On November 28 2014 18:00 Corgi Apocalypse wrote: I've been cannon rushed four games in a row, fuck this map pool
On November 28 2014 17:48 ZenithM wrote: Haha I didn't even think about how SH are completely ridiculous on some older maps. Good stuff.
Meh, I can't win anything with them. Maps like Shakuras and Metal are so tight, the Ts/Ps I meet there are all comfortable just sitting behind tanks and Colossi and bunker up unbeatable air armies. You need like 10tanks to shut down infinite supply of Swarm Hosts, which leaves 170supply for Ravens... And on those maps I can't take bases on their side and mine them out.
It's pretty bullshit, but I've been using mass nydus worms that have been working well. Just plant them all over in the back of their bases and stream out tons of cracklings. Slightly gimmicky, but the ravens aren't exactly great at stopping nydus worms from popping. Make sure to get burrow. Of course, this only when you have stalemates and a shit ton of money but can't really do anything else, and know if you don't do something soon, you'll lose in the long run.
On November 26 2014 06:45 Skynx wrote: 12-1 this evening, only loss to a protoss on shakuras who survived my 20 min no gas marine rally
What's the build? What rax at what time, when/what prompts you to expand?
That sounds pretty cool though.
Personally I've been having success with 12/14 rax w/ one gas for quick concussive shell and pushing out with 1 marauder and 5 marines, with more rallied behind. Stalkers are so horrible vs concussive shell marauder and zealots literally can't touch my tiny army. Photon overcharge can be a problem though occasionally.
On November 26 2014 06:45 Skynx wrote: 12-1 this evening, only loss to a protoss on shakuras who survived my 20 min no gas marine rally
What's the build? What rax at what time, when/what prompts you to expand?
That sounds pretty cool though.
Personally I've been having success with 12/14 rax w/ one gas for quick concussive shell and pushing out with 1 marauder and 5 marines, with more rallied behind. Stalkers are so horrible vs concussive shell marauder and zealots literally can't touch my tiny army. Photon overcharge can be a problem though occasionally.
On November 26 2014 06:45 Skynx wrote: 12-1 this evening, only loss to a protoss on shakuras who survived my 20 min no gas marine rally
What's the build? What rax at what time, when/what prompts you to expand?
That sounds pretty cool though.
Personally I've been having success with 12/14 rax w/ one gas for quick concussive shell and pushing out with 1 marauder and 5 marines, with more rallied behind. Stalkers are so horrible vs concussive shell marauder and zealots literally can't touch my tiny army. Photon overcharge can be a problem though occasionally.
I cannot believe this is a post in 2014.
Haha. my personal take on the build is with the proxied second rax. More cheesy and risky, more fun. And he's in for a serious surprise if he pushes with his stalker and get backstabbed by a sudden marauder when he retreats :D
On November 26 2014 06:45 Skynx wrote: 12-1 this evening, only loss to a protoss on shakuras who survived my 20 min no gas marine rally
What's the build? What rax at what time, when/what prompts you to expand?
That sounds pretty cool though.
Personally I've been having success with 12/14 rax w/ one gas for quick concussive shell and pushing out with 1 marauder and 5 marines, with more rallied behind. Stalkers are so horrible vs concussive shell marauder and zealots literally can't touch my tiny army. Photon overcharge can be a problem though occasionally.
I cannot believe this is a post in 2014.
Heh, I thought the same thing. It's not like they removed the MSC, which neutered this build pretty hard.....
On November 26 2014 06:45 Skynx wrote: 12-1 this evening, only loss to a protoss on shakuras who survived my 20 min no gas marine rally
What's the build? What rax at what time, when/what prompts you to expand?
That sounds pretty cool though.
Personally I've been having success with 12/14 rax w/ one gas for quick concussive shell and pushing out with 1 marauder and 5 marines, with more rallied behind. Stalkers are so horrible vs concussive shell marauder and zealots literally can't touch my tiny army. Photon overcharge can be a problem though occasionally.
Well, cc 1st into standard double rax. After orbitals and 32 scvs, you just add more marines depots and raxes as minerals allow. Move out after deflecting their opening, i get blind turrets anyway just cuz i have so much minerals. If its oracle, robo or dts he is flatout dead, if its blink you migh consider adding gasses as he will be trading very eficiently. If no early shenanigan has happened, move out around 7 min with 12-15 marines rally all your rax until he is dead.
This is mostly plat btw, altho I've seen this awfull lot of times from Bomber on stream when hes in it for fun
On November 26 2014 06:45 Skynx wrote: 12-1 this evening, only loss to a protoss on shakuras who survived my 20 min no gas marine rally
What's the build? What rax at what time, when/what prompts you to expand?
That sounds pretty cool though.
Personally I've been having success with 12/14 rax w/ one gas for quick concussive shell and pushing out with 1 marauder and 5 marines, with more rallied behind. Stalkers are so horrible vs concussive shell marauder and zealots literally can't touch my tiny army. Photon overcharge can be a problem though occasionally.
Well, cc 1st into standard double rax. After orbitals and 32 scvs, you just add more marines depots and raxes as minerals allow. Move out after deflecting their opening, i get blind turrets anyway just cuz i have so much minerals. If its oracle, robo or dts he is flatout dead, if its blink you migh consider adding gasses as he will be trading very eficiently. If no early shenanigan has happened, move out around 7 min with 12-15 marines rally all your rax until he is dead.
This is mostly plat btw, altho I've seen this awfull lot of times from Bomber on stream when hes in it for fun
If it's scouted, mass oracle will actually counter it. No idea with Robo. What I don't understand though is if you have "so many minerals" why wouldn't you just get even more raxes? :o
On November 26 2014 06:45 Skynx wrote: 12-1 this evening, only loss to a protoss on shakuras who survived my 20 min no gas marine rally
What's the build? What rax at what time, when/what prompts you to expand?
That sounds pretty cool though.
Personally I've been having success with 12/14 rax w/ one gas for quick concussive shell and pushing out with 1 marauder and 5 marines, with more rallied behind. Stalkers are so horrible vs concussive shell marauder and zealots literally can't touch my tiny army. Photon overcharge can be a problem though occasionally.
Well, cc 1st into standard double rax. After orbitals and 32 scvs, you just add more marines depots and raxes as minerals allow. Move out after deflecting their opening, i get blind turrets anyway just cuz i have so much minerals. If its oracle, robo or dts he is flatout dead, if its blink you migh consider adding gasses as he will be trading very eficiently. If no early shenanigan has happened, move out around 7 min with 12-15 marines rally all your rax until he is dead.
This is mostly plat btw, altho I've seen this awfull lot of times from Bomber on stream when hes in it for fun
If it's scouted, mass oracle will actually counter it. No idea with Robo. What I don't understand though is if you have "so many minerals" why wouldn't you just get even more raxes? :o
Well, this isn't meant to be a serious strategy and only likes of Bomber can make it work in GM, who can max out on 15 mins anyway with standard builds Anyhow it is actually very hard to stop if you get caught off-guard and/or lose your first units as protoss. Think it like a 12 min Stephano max out, you sacrifice tech to get lots and lots of supply in marines. About oracles, they become less and less effective as grow in numbers, it takes 5 marines to deal with a single oracle but only 9 for 2 oracles and so on. Even if it didn't, protoss will never be able to match your production rate.
so some how ive been winning all my games with macro builds is something wrong with me? i mean the only game i lost yesterday was vs toss and i build a stupid fast third vs a 2 base colossus.someone please show me the way of the cheese
On December 02 2014 04:57 starslayer wrote: so some how ive been winning all my games with macro builds is something wrong with me? i mean the only game i lost yesterday was vs toss and i build a stupid fast third vs a 2 base colossus.someone please show me the way of the cheese
no, absolutly not. Most of the maps are amazing macro maps and very anticheese. The more I play the Dreampool, the more I think of this article as a "we are angry about blizzard introducing those maps, let's just pretend everything is broken". But if you go through the maps and why they were removed: Daybreak - because it got old Cloud Kingdom - because it got old Ohana - because it got old Antiga - because it got old Shakuras - because it got old (and probably was a little too Terran favored)
it's really only XNC and Metal and blink allins, which are broken. They are by no means worse than Nimbus and that map is still played.
From a zerg point of view, Shakuras is pretty broken. The cliffs blocked by rocks between the mains are very exploitable, and the mid is too narrow with no alternate attack paths to flank or counter. I guess its good for swarm hosts, but yuck.
Teoita [My lord], for the (normal/non 4gate) soultrain, do you recommend not getting a msc?, every time I try to include one I feel the build is worse so its nice to see your guide not having one.
The numbers work out nicely but zealot -> sentry leaves me with no stalker to fend off overlord scout...not that zerg scouting it makes them stop it XD. Im torn between the stalker first version and this. Love your guides, ty for sharing again.
Get the msc as soon as the nat is fully saturated; if you find you don't have the gas just cut a sentry. By the time you engage it will have enough energy for at least one time warp. It should actually be included but i forgot to xD
who ever thought it was a good idea to bring these maps back needs to get fired. honestly this is the worst sc2 season ever, it really sets sc2 back even more pro arent laddering and even playing other games or lotv mod. really the dumbest thing blizz have ever thought of
I think dreampool is great. It brings up creativity and you can dust off a few old build to play around. I can understand that pro player are disapointed to not practice on hots balanced maps but for common folks it's an excellent idea.
I had ton of fun just to think how the hell I was wallining metalopolis back in the days vs zerg. Games have been awesome in those old maps. I would be glad if blizzard could give us a pro-mappool and a "creative" mappool more open to map makers to test concepts and we can both choose maps on those 2 mappools for ladder ranking. Pro will then choose only maps on the pro mappool and us casual can have fun in both the pools-> double the fun.
Also I agree except XNC and metalopolis the rest of the pool is pretty macro-oriented.
On December 05 2014 20:27 klup wrote: I would be glad if blizzard could give us a pro-mappool and a "creative" mappool more open to map makers to test concepts and we can both choose maps on those 2 mappools for ladder ranking. Pro will then choose only maps on the pro mappool and us casual can have fun in both the pools-> double the fun.
It'd be better for them to put more maps in the map pool and give people more vetoes I think.
My current zvz win ratio in this map pool is the worst compared to the other races.
What do you guys suggest I try in ZvZ on these maps?
I usually do 1 of these 2:
1. to defend early game with speedlings, queens and spines, then tech to roaches for midgame, (cause i suck and controlling banelings and mutas) 2. One base all in with upgraded slings. I just mass them and go for a kill, but if my opponent has got 1 or 2 good baneling detonation i insta loose / give up.
On December 08 2014 21:00 ZedraC wrote: My current zvz win ratio in this map pool is the worst compared to the other races.
What do you guys suggest I try in ZvZ on these maps?
I usually do 1 of these 2:
1. to defend early game with speedlings, queens and spines, then tech to roaches for midgame, (cause i suck and controlling banelings and mutas) 2. One base all in with upgraded slings. I just mass them and go for a kill, but if my opponent has got 1 or 2 good baneling detonation i insta loose / give up.
postgame, looking at builds and charts, I realize he could have easily a-moved me for win before my 2/3 wall finished or I had enough roaches to plug out the slingball. The forced counter was scouted out early enough that I could throw down an emergency temporary full wall, and he threw away too much army shortly afterwards to stop the final push.
If you say / think the Dream pool is very macro oriented, you obviously are playing at a low league, or you don't understand how rush distances are a lot shorter on these maps....
On December 18 2014 11:04 GGzerG wrote: If you say / think the Dream pool is very macro oriented, you obviously are playing at a low league, or you don't understand how rush distances are a lot shorter on these maps....
interestingly, these were some of the most macro oriented maps of their times. But today, they're all cheesefest. Just goes to show how the meta evolves
On December 18 2014 11:04 GGzerG wrote: If you say / think the Dream pool is very macro oriented, you obviously are playing at a low league, or you don't understand how rush distances are a lot shorter on these maps....
On day break? on akilon?
Is Overgrowth much bigger than Ohanna?
Or maybe you prefer the great macro oriented maps that is Foxtrot Labs?
Or such a good, and balanced, and not terran favored at all, that is Nimbus?
Or such an easy third and fourth base, like on merry go round?
Or finally your definition of a macro map is just a free fourth and not insanely long and boring at all games, like on Deadwing?
Dreampool was dumb in some ways but it was way funnier than any of the season 3 maps.
I credit the TL Strategy team with achieving their goal of breaking Dreampool so badly that Blizzard had to revert the map pool. Well done, gentlepeople.
EPT![[image loading]](/staff/Teoita/BreakingLadder/Shakuras.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/Teoita/BreakingLadder/Ohana.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/monk/PvZ_guide/img/ohana_cannons.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/monk/PvZ_guide/img/ck_cannons.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dAC3lIo.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wxcDZD5.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/84aTnuX.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/Teoita/vd60Wdk.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Jer99/S4Maps/OHANA.jpeg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Jer99/S4Maps/XNC.jpeg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Jer99/S4Maps/metal.jpeg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Jer99/S4Maps/CK.jpeg)
![[image loading]](/staff/Teoita/BreakingLadder/Blueflame.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/Teoita/BreakingLadder/xnc.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/Teoita/BreakingLadder/sh.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/Teoita/BreakingLadder/RoachHydra.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0szI7CT.jpg)
They may be from WoL, not sure 
