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buchaa
Pakistan77 Posts
Just a brief... All of them opened oracles... Twice I blindly put down missile turrets and survived till the mid game, then I thought I wouldn't blindly put the turret unless i scout a stargate, and just died straight up... that's it really, because the mid game is unbelievably tough to play for some reason... http://drop.sc/381255 http://drop.sc/381254 http://drop.sc/381253 | ||
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reikai
United States359 Posts
Did you look at examples of midgame TvP at the pro (read: Korean level)? Whoever the top Terran is in Korea (or your favorite KOREAN Terran) is who you should be following. Another thing, nothing should be done blindly, if you can help it. Scouting is probably the single most important deciding factor in what you should do next. Check this out (it applies to Brood War, but still): http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/stet_tcl/How_to_Improve_by_Ver.pdf User was warned for this post | ||
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MattMannion
United States25 Posts
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FreeZEternal
Korea (South)3396 Posts
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Temple
United States35 Posts
If you aren't super confident in your micro (which it sounds like you aren't) then you could have played it out a little differently than you did. If you were confident in your micro you could have ended the game fairly easily with the attack against the three colossi in the natural with a squad of marauders pulled off to kill one at a time. However, the other way to go about this is to play the game in a way that you know he can't leave his base, and the only reason he could defend your 1-a was because you were coming into his defensive corner. You knew you were ahead, and instead of just sending marines out to deny thirds and trying to pick him apart with drops until you have enough infrastructure to comfortable mass units at him until he died you attacked. Instead next time I advise you just make sure you have a comfortable advantage in economy and infrastructure and then when he moves out trade armies with him. This is a scenario where you also win the game and it's a more macro oriented way of winning rather than micro oriented. Also, with the attacks at your third there are two ways to go about defending that. The first way is to do the bunker route just like you would against Zerg, and the other way is to make a sensor tower to forewarn you when an attack comes. The oracle openings can be difficult to deal with, but when you scouted him you saw that he had 3 in each gas which means he will be hitting you with something early, whether it be dt or oracle or 4 gate (almost never is 4 gate). When you see a Protoss go for quick gas like this the immediate reaction should be to delay your 2nd barracks in favor of a fast e-bay, bunker, and 1 to 3 missile turrets depending on what you can scout. If you can scout the tech and see it's dt then just throw a turret in your natural behind the bunker. If you think it could be warp prism have one behind the bunker and one in the main mineral line, if you think its oracle 1 in each mineral line and if you don't know, go ahead and make all 3 because your economy should still be better than his. I'm no god tier player myself, but I am around 1k master Terran and these are the things I have seen that help me. Best of luck to you! :D P.S. I hope this made sense as I am sorta tired writing t.t | ||
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phantomfive
Korea (South)404 Posts
1) When the reaper doesn't see much in the base, I get worried (where was his other pylon?). Double gas, as temple pointed out. 2) You need to build your marines on time. There was a lot of time where your barracks were empty, waiting. You could have had six marines by the time the oracle came if you'd kept the barracks busy the entire time. Tight builds are the key to holding off early attacks, if you ever find yourself losing in that situation, ask yourself, "how could I tighten my build?" 3) The question is whether the attack will come at the front or at the back. To solve the problem, put your marines in the back by your SCVs. They will protect from the oracle. Keep the reaper outside of your base, so it will see if an attack comes, and you will have time to move the marines to the front. | ||
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phantomfive
Korea (South)404 Posts
1) Same thing about defending oracle, although I admit I wouldn't have expected an oracle proxy that late lol Your defense was fine, though, he got a few kills but you were still fine economically. 2) Your early engagements were horrible. If you pressure early, and the nexus cannon is on, don't move forward. Wait until it runs out, or go back home. It wasn't worth it to trade all your units for two sentries. EDIT: If you see a way to kill one probe for each marine, then go ahead and run into the nexus cannon anyway. I usually just lose when I try that, but I saw a pro do it once. 3) Your second attempt at pressuring would have been a lot stronger if you had kept the units you had at the beginning. When you drop, don't drop your marines at the feet of a collosus, they will all die. At least move to the back of the base. 4) Your later engagements were a lot better, you won some battles convincingly. You didn't lose because of oracles or engagements, you lost because you didn't get your fifth base up in time. 5) For a long time, your opponent was maxed out in supply, and had no army back at home. A single medivac full of units would have destroyed his main base. Against collosus play, drop harass can give you a huge advantage. 6) Clean out that pylon behind your base! That really hurt you | ||
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mortales
174 Posts
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Nimix
France1809 Posts
The oracle openings can be difficult to deal with, but when you scouted him you saw that he had 3 in each gas which means he will be hitting you with something early, whether it be dt or oracle or 4 gate (almost never is 4 gate). I'm pretty sure scouting double gas with 3 probes in each doesn't mean anything in HOTS, it could be a standard build as well; what you should look for is the third pylon more than anything. If there isn't a 3rd pylon, he might proxy stargate and you need an ebay; if there is, the potential stargate will come into play way later and you'll be able to defend with marines if you played right. | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
On May 28 2014 18:58 Nimix wrote: I'm pretty sure scouting double gas with 3 probes in each doesn't mean anything in HOTS Expanding without any signficant tech behind a build with 6 probes on gas is definitely not standard. Unlike builds with 3-4 probes on gas, you have to spend the gas surplus early on to make it really useful. Most players will go either blink or stargate. Blink leads to an all-in, while stargate tech could be either macro or an all-in. What's important to keep in mind is that you have to build a third pylon before your exxpansion if you go for a fast oracle, which slows down your nexus even further. On May 23 2014 14:58 Temple wrote: The oracle openings can be difficult to deal with, but when you scouted him you saw that he had 3 in each gas which means he will be hitting you with something early, whether it be dt or oracle or 4 gate (almost never is 4 gate). Unless you're talking about a 4 gate with blink or sentries (and I'm not even sure about the latter), I don't see how 6 probes on gas could ever lead to a 4 gate. No way. Getting that much gas would heavily delay the push. 4 probes on gas is enough for a delayed msc/stalker-oriented 4 gate. You can obviously go stargate into 4 gate, but then the 4 gate is just a follow up. | ||
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Mistakes
United States1102 Posts
On May 23 2014 08:39 reikai wrote: First things first: top masters is thousands of games away. If you're a top master player, you're right up there with the pros on the ladder, borderlining Grandmaster level. That's the point where you can enter a daily tournament and have a good chance of winning. Did you look at examples of midgame TvP at the pro (read: Korean level)? Whoever the top Terran is in Korea (or your favorite KOREAN Terran) is who you should be following. Another thing, nothing should be done blindly, if you can help it. Scouting is probably the single most important deciding factor in what you should do next. Check this out (it applies to Brood War, but still): http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/stet_tcl/How_to_Improve_by_Ver.pdf User was warned for this post Why did this get a warning? Wtf? (I haven't watched the games yet so I can't comment on it) But my TvPs are usually hyper aggressive off 2 base trying to knock the Protoss down for a win, or into the stone age while I take a 3rd (albeit very late). If it's a large map, I don't know what to do vs P, so I can't help you there. | ||
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phantomfive
Korea (South)404 Posts
On May 29 2014 03:19 Mistakes wrote: Why did this get a warning? Wtf? (I haven't watched the games yet so I can't comment on it) That's why, you're supposed to watch the replays and give specific advice, not random generic stuff that isn't helpful | ||
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phantomfive
Korea (South)404 Posts
In both cases, a lot of damage was done (remember these are pro games, so no matter how good you get, this is a problem you'll still have to deal with. Keep improving). The response from both terran players was to counter-attack fairly quickly. Innovation dropped in the main and took advantage of a mis-micro from HerO (really what he took advantage of was the fact that HerO would have trouble defending two bases against medivacs) and killed most of his army, even with collossus. Taeja attacked straight into the main, and I thought he was dead with the force-fields and big protoss army. Indeed, the first army died, but it took a large portion of the protoss army with it, and Taeja had better ground production buildings, and was able to re-max faster and win with the next wave of units. So keep in mind that a counter-attack in these situations can be a good idea. | ||
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