probably the best response if you are sure that it wont work, spend the larvae on drones and instead make a spore spine in your bases.

This is one of the biggest problems a build like this faces. If your opponent is completely safe against one of your busts, he will have lots more to hold the next push - making it significantly weaker

Edit : I think a second option is still going for an attack at the front to force him to play defensive could line up better with the build

The first barrels objective isnt to kill your opponent, its to slow him down to set your second one

KelsierSC

United Kingdom10443 Posts

September 27 2013 11:18 GMT

#202

I think this is a very potent style as it takes the tempo away from the Terran, something that is quite difficult in the current metagame. Rather than dropping and pressuring they have to trade armies and defend.

However I think this style is very dependent on 1) map and 2) Scouting.

The success of the game depends on how much damage the "second barrel" can do because if it doesn't do enough damage the Terran will probably be way ahead. If the bust doesn't do enough you only have 2 saturated bases and if you build drones you won't have the units to hold the counter push. If you build only units instead of drones then the terran will just sit happily on 3 bases and get further ahead.

For this reason I think if the map is hard to bust or if you scout a Terran playing safe you should not go for the bust but instead take the third base and drone up whilst teching to spire to shut down drops.

To aid with the scouting. amongst other things. I quite like working overlord speed into the build. I understand this will delay or reduce the power of the bust but I think it is worth it.

SEA KarMa

Australia452 Posts

September 27 2013 11:47 GMT

#203

what makes it effective is the switch in pace in games, and really screws with the opponent's comfort zone.

Destruktor

Spain60 Posts

January 03 2014 11:19 GMT

#204

Hi there! nice guide! I'd like to use this style to delay the 3 bases economy of Terran BUT, I think when the SVC scouts your base and sees pool first and gas instead hatch first, Terran would be more defensive than usual. Is it possible do this method with some opening more standard like hatch first to deceive Terran player? Thanks in advanced.

Mahtasooma

Germany475 Posts

January 03 2014 12:28 GMT

#205

My problem with the second bust is still that it hits exactly at the time when 3 medivacs full of MM shred my bases

EH.Devil

Germany24 Posts

February 02 2014 00:37 GMT

#206

still not that bad of a build,even if they build a lot of bunkers sometimes u can still bust them

Mjolnir

912 Posts

February 05 2014 02:21 GMT

#207

Is this still a viable build?

Tried it a few times, it's probably 50/50 for me; but at my level of skill that means little

fezvez

France3021 Posts

February 05 2014 03:00 GMT

#208

It's still a decent build.

The main problem it has it's that it's still at its core a WoL build, where Terrans don't have medivacs with boost. Dealing with drops is a massive headache if you don't have mutalisks. Hellbats and widow mines are not really a problem though.

But, if you are plat or below, it's still an excellent benchmark. Congrats if you manage to hit the timings

Coldlogic

United States116 Posts

February 09 2014 16:22 GMT

#209

On January 03 2014 21:28 Mahtasooma wrote:
My problem with the second bust is still that it hits exactly at the time when 3 medivacs full of MM shred my bases

If he has 24 marines and 3 medivacs at your base, he doesn't have enough to defend. You have the 32 defensive lings to stop the three drops, as long as you see them and micro split, a medivac cant drop marines fast enough to kill 10 lings attacking while your queen focuses.

Coldlogic

United States116 Posts

February 09 2014 16:27 GMT

#210

On February 05 2014 11:21 Mjolnir wrote:
Is this still a viable build?

Tried it a few times, it's probably 50/50 for me; but at my level of skill that means little

Yea, the unfortunate part of this is that if you mess up anywhere, it can really reduce the effectiveness of the build. Not putting drones in gas at 36 or missing your 2nd gas really slows it all down. Missing drones as you're attacking with lings does even more damage to yourself than to them.

I use this strategy primarily and still mess up some things from time to time. But when you hit everything correctly, the feeling of complete raw power that you demonstrate is amazing. You really need to be exact with this build for it to be incredibly affective.

One other thing I have noticed that increases the effectiveness is sending in 3 roaches spread out to their wall during the second barrel, with your main force following right behind. The point of this is to bait the tank/window mine shots so they do little to no damage to your main force. Get your banelings in on the bunkers and head for the natural's SCVs. If you can kill the natural, you are in a great position.

Coldlogic

United States116 Posts

February 09 2014 16:27 GMT

#211

also forgot the entire reason i came here.

http://sc2planner.com/?v=hots#ZaaajaaaaaoFaoDaacaadoAhjbuDkkkfhjaaakkkkffhjaaaacoDaaffaaaaacaajjffaaaaaaaaaaoGoGffaaaaoDoDaaaaaauPuSffccoBoHoLjjjjjffllllllllllffuGuHlllllllllllffjjkkkkkkkkkkkkffkkkkttttttttttttttttttttqqff

TommyStarcraft

Denmark34 Posts

February 16 2014 23:35 GMT

#212

Love this guide, just amazing been taking out players who is really strong. Thanks for the guide Tang!

Mahtasooma

Germany475 Posts

February 19 2014 08:54 GMT

#213

One question about the first bust:

Suppose he's taking zero damage from it (which is probable), but I don't lose anything either and contain him until he has like 4 hellions out. But his 2nd orbital is in his main so he went for some sort of standard build order.

Is he actually losing anything because he can take his natural way later? Because he can still drop dem mules in his main and even produce scvs off of his other command center. Except that his main will be mined out somewhat earlier.
Is it throwing off his build order big time or only very slightly?

RPR_Tempest

Australia7798 Posts

February 19 2014 11:57 GMT

#214

On February 19 2014 17:54 Mahtasooma wrote:
One question about the first bust:

Suppose he's taking zero damage from it (which is probable), but I don't lose anything either and contain him until he has like 4 hellions out. But his 2nd orbital is in his main so he went for some sort of standard build order.

Is he actually losing anything because he can take his natural way later? Because he can still drop dem mules in his main and even produce scvs off of his other command center. Except that his main will be mined out somewhat earlier.
Is it throwing off his build order big time or only very slightly?

You're inconveniencing him slightly if he never moves his orbital. But if you force a lift on his orbital and he has to move it from the natural into his main, that's pretty nice for you and pretty much the most you should expect the first bust to ever do.