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On May 04 2013 18:05 Mad_Mardigon wrote:
This is a very broken matchup so all of this study is unimportant, they ruined zvz by making mutas faster. nuff said.
I don't agree with your word choice, but i do agree with the attitude that the matchup has suffered from HoTS changes. I enjoy muta play so i still enjoy the mu, but playing anything other then muta is just not as strong. You can win with other play as a superior player, but even then you will still lose to muta.
The mu is a bit... boring atm.
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some reps are on another replay in my laptop bag which is in my moms car T_T hopefully upload them tomorrow.
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It's a nice build (mainly when u do evo before bnest :p)
But what u do if ur opponent search on 2evo +1/+1 & quick third ? You will be probly behind with only 1 evo.. (and u cant punish him)
I say that because the only one guy who countered me do this.
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On May 07 2013 16:45 Berty wrote:
It's a nice build (mainly when u do evo before bnest :p)
But what u do if ur opponent search on 2evo +1/+1 & quick third ? You will be probly behind with only 1 evo.. (and u cant punish him)
I say that because the only one guy who countered me do this.
Whenever i scout an evo before a bane nest i just all in as hard as i can with basically 100% win rate. You need to get bane nest before ups or its just a gimmick you cant hold roach bane or targa bane with evo first.
I hate playing vs ling ups style, one mistake vs it and you lose, feels so forgiving for the person thats doing the ling ups if they get it up. Been praying for a +1 damage to banelings buff for at least a year.
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Nice Guide Kamker!
I really like your special strat vs roaching timings. Ill have to try that!
See you online, SCA fighting
EDIT:
I would like to add something to this tho Kamker. I have played with this style in zvz for over a year, and occasionally you do face someone who uses the same style.
The game kinda ends in a stale mate because how the infestor really shuts down lings and banes. I find that whoever can reach ultra first can break the other.
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I guess the only thing i dont like about this build is that it still comes down to out macroing your opponent for a higher muta count in the end game while relying on a higher skill-capped defend in the opening game and a necessary aggression in the mid game to get ahead; an aggression that if poorly performed or mishandled means you're pretty much dead because you were relying on it to eek out your macro advantage that you squandered by getting carapace. (long sentence...)
I
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On May 08 2013 08:47 konicki wrote:
I guess the only thing i dont like about this build is that it still comes down to out macroing your opponent for a higher muta count in the end game while relying on a higher skill-capped defend in the opening game and a necessary aggression in the mid game to get ahead; an aggression that if poorly performed or mishandled means you're pretty much dead because you were relying on it to eek out your macro advantage that you squandered by getting carapace. (long sentence...)
I
I understand how you're looking at it but would argue that even in a standard game you fight ling bane vs ling bane for quicker thirds and doing this is simply a meta move that gives you a huge window where you're much stronger.
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On May 07 2013 18:08 Iksf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 16:45 Berty wrote:
It's a nice build (mainly when u do evo before bnest :p)
But what u do if ur opponent search on 2evo +1/+1 & quick third ? You will be probly behind with only 1 evo.. (and u cant punish him)
I say that because the only one guy who countered me do this. Whenever i scout an evo before a bane nest i just all in as hard as i can with basically 100% win rate. You need to get bane nest before ups or its just a gimmick you cant hold roach bane or targa bane with evo first. I hate playing vs ling ups style, one mistake vs it and you lose, feels so forgiving for the person thats doing the ling ups if they get it up. Been praying for a +1 damage to banelings buff for at least a year.
you only get evo before banes nest on certain maps where you can wall off with a spine and bane nest to defend against all ins
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On May 07 2013 16:45 Berty wrote:
It's a nice build (mainly when u do evo before bnest :p)
But what u do if ur opponent search on 2evo +1/+1 & quick third ? You will be probly behind with only 1 evo.. (and u cant punish him)
I say that because the only one guy who countered me do this.
It would really depend how quickly he gets the evos but I would recommend matching upgrades and playing it out like a normal game, as it feels way to risky to get behind on ling upgrades and still defend properly unless you have mass spine.
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On May 08 2013 01:12 BuiBui wrote:
Nice Guide Kamker!
I really like your special strat vs roaching timings. Ill have to try that!
See you online, SCA fighting
EDIT:
I would like to add something to this tho Kamker. I have played with this style in zvz for over a year, and occasionally you do face someone who uses the same style.
The game kinda ends in a stale mate because how the infestor really shuts down lings and banes. I find that whoever can reach ultra first can break the other.
Hehe that sounds like it sucks, luckily that's never happens to me before im to stubborn and go mutas
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I honestly believe that the muta problem won't be fixed until zerg get an AA t1 unit. Protoss have the stalker, Terran the marine. Blizzard won't do that though (like ever), so expect either ridiculous nerfs to mutas making them useless in other MU's or some CRAZY +bio damage on something (like they've attempted with spores). Blizzard logic #1.
On topic: great guide definitely going to play about with this! Thanks!
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On May 08 2013 19:12 virtu wrote:
I honestly believe that the muta problem won't be fixed until zerg get an AA t1 unit. Protoss have the stalker, Terran the marine. Blizzard won't do that though (like ever), so expect either ridiculous nerfs to mutas making them useless in other MU's or some CRAZY +bio damage on something (like they've attempted with spores). Blizzard logic #1.
On topic: great guide definitely going to play about with this! Thanks!
This post gave me some weird vision of someone fighting mutas with mass upgraded queens... the horror, I do agree with you though and I dislike the spore buff to try to balance it.
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On May 08 2013 19:12 virtu wrote:
I honestly believe that the muta problem won't be fixed until zerg get an AA t1 unit. Protoss have the stalker, Terran the marine. Blizzard won't do that though (like ever), so expect either ridiculous nerfs to mutas making them useless in other MU's or some CRAZY +bio damage on something (like they've attempted with spores). Blizzard logic #1.
On topic: great guide definitely going to play about with this! Thanks!
Queen is a T1 AA unit.
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EPT
