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Hello TL,
I am a mid master zerg player and have a question regarding the state of ZvP and what zerg should do vs a protoss who is going for colossus. In WoL zergs really only had the option of going for corruptors to kill the colossus. Now is HotS zergs have the Viper to help deal with the colossus by pulling it into the zerg army and sniping it.
So my question really is what is better to do at Lair, get a spire and make corruptors to deal with the colossus, or go for a hive and get Vipers?
I am of the opinion it is much better to go to hive and get Vipers to deal with the colossus because:
1.) Hive is cheaper than a spire and takes the same time to make
2.) once at hive you can start 3/3 in addition to having hive tech available.
3.) you need less vipers to deal with colossus than you need corruptors
4.) Vipers can are better at supplementing the zerg army than corruptors.
Even with all these befits, i still consistently see people going for corruptors to deal with Colossus rather than go for Vipers, I am curious to know the opinions of other players out there on what is a better choice and why.
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Im not a masters player but I have asked this question in a couple different threads (Z help me thread, etc). The consensus answer I got was that Vipers are much better unless they can attain a large number of collosi. If they get 4-5+ you start to need corruptors. Better players than me will probably answer your question as well, but I hope I helped 
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there are 4 benefits of having corruptors over vipers that I can think of:
1) a viper needs to charge up energy before you can use it whilst the corruptors will be ready to fight as soon as they hatch.
2) if ones going for broodlords as a way to end the game, youre going to need the spire and the corruptors anyway.
3) You dont want to get the infestationpit but instead end with a roach hydra corruptor push.
4) Corruptors cant be feedbacked and are better at tanking damage from voidrays or phoenixes (not counting ground units because due to the range of abduct)
edit: I came up with another one
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If protoss is doing some kind of 2 base robo/colossus build (that is either all in or a transition into a 3rd), I think getting corruptors and limiting them to two bases/starving them out is the way to go. If protoss gets 3 base-plus corruptors begin to experience extreme amounts of diminishing returns, and broodlord transitions just aren't what they used to be. If you want to macro with a toss a Viper/Hydra or Viper/Hydra/SH/Ultra is probably the way to go if you didn't open Mutas.
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One way I like to think of it at the moment is corruptors are short-term. Vipers long-term.
Vipers are really bad once they have a good templar count, unless you're using a swarm host-style to push the templar back.
Corruptors are armoured units and voidrays are broken vs armoured units. Therefore a general rule I like to apply is that roaches, ultralisks or corruptors should only be used if I need them to defend or hit a timing immediately. As time wears on it's easier for your opponent to get a small pack of voidrays (reaction) which will massacre any of these armoured units. So you have to use them quickly in waves before your opponent can react with voidrays. If they're already going voidrays just go straight to vipers.
Re: ultrakiss comment on 4-5 collossi being too many for vipers, I think vipers are still generally the better option, as long as no templar out to feedback!
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You should probably be going for Hive, even with corruptors, just because those upgrades make fighting toss units so much easier.
I think the big selling point of vipers in ZvP is that they are dead useful in almost every composition. Like, they can pull and swarm and everything. Whereas, corruptors can't really kill much, and broodlords aren't really in vogue atm ;x.
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From a 1200 pt masters POV, I much prefer to play versus viper than corruptor. I think vipers can be countered rather easily, whereas corruptors at least require the opponent to get a good void ray number, which cannot be done quickly.
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Wow PiG you sound like a huge whiner, which is surprising since you have blue posts. Anyways I agree that Vipers is the better choice in most situations, but corruptors are more mobile and can deal with Colossi without the need of other anti-air. For example if you prefer to go for Zergling - Baneling - Ultra - Infestor style, you can use Corruptors to deal with the Colossi and the Void Rays without the need to make the fragile Hydra.
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Vipers are the best, no matter the situation.
Why:
Right now there is no real good end game composition that includes broodlords ( not that i ever saw ), ultralisk/sh/viper/hydra/infestor based armies seems to be better in every or at least most cases.
The Vipers will in the end cost you less, 3 vipers are generally more than enough to deal with any colossus push... 5 is the most you will need at any time... maybe 7, but past that it seems like an overkill even if you assume that you losse 2/3 of those to templars.
Considering that for every 2 corruptor you can get a viper + 200 minerals and 1 less suply, for 6 corruptors you get 3 vipers and you generally want to have 10+ corruptors for them to be worth a damn
Unless your plan is to go muta, make him go heavy on phoenix and than build coruptors, you should never ever get corruptors. Vipers are infinitely better at dealing with colossus, useful for the full duration of the game and useful against any kind of protoss composition I can think of.
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On April 21 2013 01:17 NEEDZMOAR wrote:
there are 4 benefits of having corruptors over vipers that I can think of:
1) a viper needs to charge up energy before you can use it whilst the corruptors will be ready to fight as soon as they hatch.
2) if ones going for broodlords as a way to end the game, youre going to need the spire and the corruptors anyway.
3) You dont want to get the infestationpit but instead end with a roach hydra corruptor push.
4) Corruptors cant be feedbacked and are better at tanking damage from voidrays or phoenixes (not counting ground units because due to the range of abduct)
edit: I came up with another one
Also Corruptos are easier to micro, which is always a good thing.
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I think corruptors are very situational. When you have good economic advantage and the opponent have no voidray, in this case you can make corruptor and push advantage. Also with mass muta to push back phoenix. But most of time making corruptor is bad choice.
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On April 21 2013 03:01 moskonia wrote:
Wow PiG you sound like a huge whiner, which is surprising since you have blue posts. Anyways I agree that Vipers is the better choice in most situations, but corruptors are more mobile and can deal with Colossi without the need of other anti-air. For example if you prefer to go for Zergling - Baneling - Ultra - Infestor style, you can use Corruptors to deal with the Colossi and the Void Rays without the need to make the fragile Hydra.
In what is he whining ? Except the "voidrays are broken vs armoured units", that just means "you don't really want to do armoured units when he has vr", he was just giving advises, that I found quite sound btw.
And I didn't knew "Zergling - Baneling - Ultra - Infestor" was a standart composition in ZvP
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On April 22 2013 01:07 Emzeeshady wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2013 03:01 moskonia wrote:
Wow PiG you sound like a huge whiner, which is surprising since you have blue posts. He wasn't whining. He was stating an accepted fact. Voids rays are way too strong vs armoured units now. This means that you CAN'T make too many armoured units vs Toss or Voids rays will fuck you up.
you can call it an accepted fact, or whatever you want, doesn't make it less of a whine, read again his post without having any bias, calling things broken and at least for me it sounds silly. For example instead of saying something like "if you're going Vipers get Swarm Hosts when they get High Templars", he tries to make it sound like its imba.
On April 22 2013 01:00 kubiks wrote:I didn't knew "Zergling - Baneling - Ultra - Infestor" was a standart composition in ZvP
I was just giving an example for a ground base army, did not say it was standard, Corruptors allow for anti-air without the need for more anti-air, unlike Vipers which are purely support units. With Roach Hydra I think Vipers are better, but Corruptors allow you to have anti air without being forced into Hydras. Of course Unless they have actual air units Viper still might be better because Roaches, Lings and Ultras can still snipe a Colossus very fast, but its very game dependent I guess.
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Vipers are way better early on. Vipers help you kill colossi near instantly while corruptors just kil them slowly and then die to blink stalkers afterwards. Vipers also counter FF to some degree and just deal with lasertoss compositions better.
It is a slightly slower and costlier tech to get at first but hive and infestation pit are really useful in themselves. Spire however has somewhat limited use if you can't get muta out.
Vipers do become a little troublesome to use when HT are out but that's a bit later by which point you should have ultra's and or SH to help counter the colossi. I'd almost go as far as saying you never want corruptors in PvZ now.
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Didn't Blizz say that they felt Protoss air was too strong against zerg right now? Saying that VRs are broken against armored units is analogous to saying that they absolutely slaughter them. Just because he said that VRs are broken against armored units does not imply that he is whining about them, because he clearly states what you should do in the even that the toss does get VRs.
A whine would more follow along the lines of "Voidrays are so OP, nothing zerg has can deal with them effectively."
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I think of it this way, Vipers are always way better, except when he has plenty of Templar to support 3+ Colossi.
Except that then, what you want are Ultras (needing Infestation pit->Hive) or Swarm Hosts (needing infestation pit), so Viper is along the right tech-path anyway.
So I would suggest never, ever building corruptors ever for the purpose of killing off Colossi, with the sole exception being fending off the templar-colossus 2-base desperation move outs timings.
In WoL Corruptors were good because they were tanky and you needed them to get Broodlords out anyway. You don't really wany to get Broodlords anymore (voidray-tempest seems way too strong at the moment vs Infestor-Brood), especially seeing as Swarm Hosts are arguably better, faster, cheaper, invisible, have easier tech and have longer range.
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Vipers are better to deal with it. The only way corruptors are an ok way to deal with it are if the protoss is doing some sort of 2 base colossi all in or you notice he has no air and he just has a shit ton of colossi.
vipers are better then corruptors at dealing with colossi for many reasons:
1. Don't need a spire, just hive.
2. most protosses go voidray/colossi if you go corruptor your corruptors might kill 1 colossi if you are lucky, otherwise corruptors will get pwnd by the voids and then you lose.
3. Vipers after abducting a colossi, that colossi is going to be dead in a second. Compared to corruptors it takes time to kill the colossi so the colossi are still doing damage to the ground army.
4. Corruptors take more supply (in terms of how many you have to make), where 4 vipers can abduct 8 colossi at once you would want at least 10 corruptors minimum which is 20 supply and that cant' really help vs ground except with the corruption ability after the colossi are dead.
5. Once the colossi are dead vipers are still very useful due to blinding cloud, once the colossi are dead with corruptors they aren't very useful.
6. You are hive tech, you can transition into ultra or broodlord or whatever you want, going corruptors delays your hive tech by quiet a bit.
That's all I can think of right now but vipers are way superior to corruptors in pretty much every way.
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EPT
