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Fliparoni
205 Posts
After how many SH's do you start your 1/1 upgrades? I've been trying SH's and often times I think I started 1/1 too early which cut into my SH count. Also, how many SH's should I mass before starting to add support units like queens/hydras etc. What is a critical mass of SH's for the end game? Sometimes I feel like I mass too many SH's and don't have any room for support units. I would also love to see a video on how you utilize SH's against Terran Bio+Mine. | ||
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CrueltY
Guernsey37 Posts
Couple of questions: - around when do you normally research Drops in your games? Is it there anything that a toss would be doing that would make you not get drops? - Have you considered late game nydus use on maps like Whirlwind later on defensively since the Hosts are so extremely slow? Thanks in advance | ||
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Rekatan
United States172 Posts
On April 07 2013 09:52 Fliparoni wrote: Love what you've done here. A few things. After how many SH's do you start your 1/1 upgrades? I've been trying SH's and often times I think I started 1/1 too early which cut into my SH count. Also, how many SH's should I mass before starting to add support units like queens/hydras etc. What is a critical mass of SH's for the end game? Sometimes I feel like I mass too many SH's and don't have any room for support units. I would also love to see a video on how you utilize SH's against Terran Bio+Mine. It depends on what I'm up against, but generally speaking I like to wait until at least 8 to 10 SH before I drop the evo chambers. Support units should be added immediately, even your initial 3-6 queens should be brought along for the start of your push, to begin getting the creep established on their side of the map. 16 - 24 is a healthy critical mass for your SH. I like to go well above 30 but anything more than 24 requires that you begin to multiprong your attacks. This is extremely demanding on the multitasking. I finished recording a biomine ZvT just haven't uploaded it yet. I'll link it in this thread's OP when it's on youtube! On April 07 2013 10:15 CrueltY wrote: I really enjoyed the vods, was very nice to see solid demonstrations of Host play at a high level, haven't seen much of it on streams recently. Couple of questions: - around when do you normally research Drops in your games? Is it there anything that a toss would be doing that would make you not get drops? - Have you considered late game nydus use on maps like Whirlwind later on defensively since the Hosts are so extremely slow? Thanks in advance Double stargate often has me going into drops fairly quickly. Other than that I often will grab drops if my opponent has reached 4 bases and I still have not been able to snipe a nexus with my swarmhosts. I do like the idea of late game nydus play, but I'm hammering out the other aspects of my late game first before I add a new element. | ||
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Kaoswarr
United Kingdom9 Posts
How would this build fair against something like a 7 gate attack? Also how do you normally deal with the early pressure a lot of Protoss seem to be doing (such as 2 Stalkers + 1 Zealot with MSC)? As these kind of early pressures are the builds that I have most problems with. I'm Mid master EU | ||
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PwFClockWise
Sweden49 Posts
On April 08 2013 01:06 Kaoswarr wrote: Awesome guide Rekatan! How would this build fair against something like a 7 gate attack? Also how do you normally deal with the early pressure a lot of Protoss seem to be doing (such as 2 Stalkers + 1 Zealot with MSC)? As these kind of early pressures are the builds that I have most problems with. I'm Mid master EU First of all, I'm mid master EU as well. I hope Rekatan doesn't mind me trying to answer this question, and please correct me if my answer is completely off ^^! I haven't been playing this style at all yet, but since you have 3 queens on the map and connected your two bases with creep it shouldn't be a problem holding 2 stalkers, 1 zealot and MSC if you add 1 spine crawler. I don't really think you need to do more than that. From what I've gathered so far when looking the vods and checking some replays of Rekatan, you generally have SH in production at 9.00ish. This is also the time where you take up your queen production again. A 7 gate doesn't hit until...like 11-12 minutes something? Which means you have 2-3 more minutes of constant SH and Queen production. Since the Protoss doesn't have any detection you should be able to hold it fine using some spines as backup. Since your SH will be out well before his push you could potentially apply pressure to him while he is trying to walk over to your base, which means that you won't only delay his push a bit but also damages his units for free. Need to be cautious not to lose any SH though ^^! Edit: Grammar. | ||
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Kaoswarr
United Kingdom9 Posts
On April 08 2013 02:07 PwFClockWise wrote: First of all, I'm mid master EU as well. I hope Rekatan doesn't mind me trying to answer this question, and please correct me if my answer is completely off ^^! I haven't been playing this style at all yet, but since you have 3 queens on the map and connected your two bases with creep it shouldn't be a problem holding 2 stalkers, 1 zealot and MSC if you add 1 spine crawler. I don't really think you need to do more than that. From what I've gathered so far when looking the vods and checking some replays of Rekatan, you generally have SH in production at 9.00ish. This is also the time where you take up your queen production again. A 7 gate doesn't hit until...like 11-12 minutes something? Which means you have 2-3 more minutes of constant SH and Queen production. Since the Protoss doesn't have any detection you should be able to hold it fine using some spines as backup. Since your SH will be out well before his push you could potentially apply pressure to him while he is trying to walk over to your base, which means that you won't only delay his push a bit but also damages his units for free. Need to be cautious not to lose any SH though ^^! Edit: Grammar. Yeah that's true, I didn't take that in to consideration with the spine  I've had 7 gate timings hit as early as 9 mins sometimes which could be quite problematic. Also i've been encountering really heavy zealot 7 gate timings and these seem to hit ALOT earlier. | ||
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Zheryn
Sweden3653 Posts
On April 08 2013 02:07 PwFClockWise wrote: First of all, I'm mid master EU as well. I hope Rekatan doesn't mind me trying to answer this question, and please correct me if my answer is completely off ^^! I haven't been playing this style at all yet, but since you have 3 queens on the map and connected your two bases with creep it shouldn't be a problem holding 2 stalkers, 1 zealot and MSC if you add 1 spine crawler. I don't really think you need to do more than that. From what I've gathered so far when looking the vods and checking some replays of Rekatan, you generally have SH in production at 9.00ish. This is also the time where you take up your queen production again. A 7 gate doesn't hit until...like 11-12 minutes something? Which means you have 2-3 more minutes of constant SH and Queen production. Since the Protoss doesn't have any detection you should be able to hold it fine using some spines as backup. Since your SH will be out well before his push you could potentially apply pressure to him while he is trying to walk over to your base, which means that you won't only delay his push a bit but also damages his units for free. Need to be cautious not to lose any SH though ^^! Edit: Grammar. Since a immo sentry all in moves out at 8:50, a 7 gate will hit waaay faster than 11-12 min. I don't know exact timings here, but a standard no gas 3 base opener will be able to have SHs out in time to defend immo sentry, so a 2 base version should definately be in time to defend any ground focused 2-base all in. | ||
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PwFClockWise
Sweden49 Posts
Just thinking out loud here now, but I think this approach could work. Not really sure how it is with economy though, since you are two base and can no longer stay cost efficient due to not having free units from the SH it might not work. You might have to do a trade off between SH's and Hydras. Maybe 4-5 SH's could be enough and Hydras the rest, not really sure. Edit: Grammar, once again. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20345 Posts
From what I've gathered so far when looking the vods and checking some replays of Rekatan, you generally have SH in production at 9.00ish. This is also the time where you take up your queen production again. A 7 gate doesn't hit until...like 11-12 minutes something? It depends on the 7 gate. 7gate does not tell you anything other than an attack with 7 gateways - A HuK style 8gate can warp 8 zeals to a proxy pylon before 8:00 if you only build 2 units before that and are able to get pylons up outside of the safety of your FFE wall - Some unfortunate zergs at low master i've seen let a pylon get far too close to them and then they have 10 units with +1 attack hitting the third before 8:15 - but this is very scoutable. I mean he builds only 1 or 2 gateway units before the 8 minute warp - he has to drop all gates before 7 minutes (so starts at like 6:10 and drops as money comes in) and typically there's either 1 gas, or 2 gas with some probes pulled off - and a low probe count, as low as 35 or 36. You will NOT hold your third against this kind of attack with hydralisks, swarm hosts or 3 hatch muta - period, unless you read him like a book, cut drones early, kill the probe/s trying to proxy pylon multiple times, basically. Trying to defend a third with a lair tech unit is a strategical bad move against this specific kind of all in - you can't do it unless you have leads in the game (like you fuck up his timings) and trying will just lead to you getting overwhelmed completely. An 8gate of this style, i mean 9 +1 zeals a stalker and a mothership core at 8 mins at the closest pylon he has, you kinda dont want hydras at all. Hydra's are very bad against zealots in low numbers - Swarm hosts come too late, and Muta's require too much of a commital to hold the third. It's typically a roach ling queen spine defense, or a sack-third-without-competition, save drones, build a small or large spine wall and play 2 base vs 2 base because he has no tech, 36 workers and mostly zealot/stalker on the ground. Edit: And im an idiot, this is 2hatch lair play. I knew that because i already read the entire OP, but failed to connect it to that post.. *facepalm* However there are so many wildly different variations of 6-9gates that it's impossible to give any advice without much more specific information and scouting. Immo sentry all in, with correct execution (at least WOL mode) will leave at ~8:50 and hit before 10:00 if he moves fast, plays zeal heavy and you dont delay him - most people take 12 mins though, even at low-mid master, or some higher up. | ||
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PwFClockWise
Sweden49 Posts
On April 08 2013 04:18 Cyro wrote: It depends on the 7 gate. 7gate does not tell you anything other than an attack with 7 gateways - A HuK style 8gate can warp 8 zeals to a proxy pylon before 8:00 if you only build 2 units before that and are able to get pylons up outside of the safety of your FFE wall - Some unfortunate zergs at low master i've seen let a pylon get far too close to them and then they have 10 units with +1 attack hitting the third before 8:15 - but this is very scoutable. I mean he builds only 1 or 2 gateway units before the 8 minute warp - he has to drop all gates before 7 minutes (so starts at like 6:10 and drops as money comes in) and typically there's either 1 gas, or 2 gas with some probes pulled off - and a low probe count, as low as 35 or 36. You will NOT hold your third against this kind of attack with hydralisks, swarm hosts or 3 hatch muta - period, unless you read him like a book, cut drones early, kill the probe/s trying to proxy pylon multiple times, basically. Trying to defend a third with a lair tech unit is a strategical bad move against this specific kind of all in - you can't do it unless you have leads in the game (like you fuck up his timings) and trying will just lead to you getting overwhelmed completely. An 8gate of this style, i mean 9 +1 zeals a stalker and a mothership core at 8 mins at the closest pylon he has, you kinda dont want hydras at all. Hydra's are very bad against zealots in low numbers - Swarm hosts come too late, and Muta's require too much of a commital to hold the third. It's typically a roach ling queen spine defense, or a sack-third-without-competition, save drones, build a small or large spine wall and play 2 base vs 2 base because he has no tech, 36 workers and mostly zealot/stalker on the ground. Edit: And im an idiot, this is 2hatch lair play. I knew that because i already read the entire OP, but failed to connect it to that post.. *facepalm* However there are so many wildly different variations of 6-9gates that it's impossible to give any advice without much more specific information and scouting. Immo sentry all in, with correct execution (at least WOL mode) will leave at ~8:50 and hit before 10:00 if he moves fast, plays zeal heavy and you dont delay him - most people take 12 mins though, even at low-mid master, or some higher up. Yeah, you confused me quite a bit with 3 bases there for a while ^^, but what you are saying is completely true and I thank you for that information - it will help me. I just did the build flawlessly(more or less  ) against the AI and at 10.00 I have 5 SH's, 4 more in production 50% done, 7 queens, 2 spines with a bank of 400 minerals for additional spines. A 10 minute push should be no problem. But earlier than that might be a huge problem. You do get an overseer out at 7.30 and you can scout immediately after that. You can even scout before you get an overseer since the Pneumatized Carapace will be done at around 7.00ish if you want to be extra careful. If you see the HuK build you can probably throw down a few extra spines in time - not sure though.I also have a question for Rekatan: When I watch your replays you pretty much always goes up to 55-60 drones immediately. Since you are still on 2 bases won't 44 suffice? As a rule of thumb I have 16 drones on minerals and 6 in gases on each base. You seem to be going way above this number making as much as 16 more drones, is there a specific reason for this? | ||
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Zheryn
Sweden3653 Posts
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
So far I have a 90% win rate at the 1000point master lvl. The only difference is. if I see air from the toss. I get a nydus. pop at their third. and lay down 5 spores. | ||
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
On April 08 2013 05:14 PwFClockWise wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 08 2013 04:18 Cyro wrote: It depends on the 7 gate. 7gate does not tell you anything other than an attack with 7 gateways - A HuK style 8gate can warp 8 zeals to a proxy pylon before 8:00 if you only build 2 units before that and are able to get pylons up outside of the safety of your FFE wall - Some unfortunate zergs at low master i've seen let a pylon get far too close to them and then they have 10 units with +1 attack hitting the third before 8:15 - but this is very scoutable. I mean he builds only 1 or 2 gateway units before the 8 minute warp - he has to drop all gates before 7 minutes (so starts at like 6:10 and drops as money comes in) and typically there's either 1 gas, or 2 gas with some probes pulled off - and a low probe count, as low as 35 or 36. You will NOT hold your third against this kind of attack with hydralisks, swarm hosts or 3 hatch muta - period, unless you read him like a book, cut drones early, kill the probe/s trying to proxy pylon multiple times, basically. Trying to defend a third with a lair tech unit is a strategical bad move against this specific kind of all in - you can't do it unless you have leads in the game (like you fuck up his timings) and trying will just lead to you getting overwhelmed completely. An 8gate of this style, i mean 9 +1 zeals a stalker and a mothership core at 8 mins at the closest pylon he has, you kinda dont want hydras at all. Hydra's are very bad against zealots in low numbers - Swarm hosts come too late, and Muta's require too much of a commital to hold the third. It's typically a roach ling queen spine defense, or a sack-third-without-competition, save drones, build a small or large spine wall and play 2 base vs 2 base because he has no tech, 36 workers and mostly zealot/stalker on the ground. Edit: And im an idiot, this is 2hatch lair play. I knew that because i already read the entire OP, but failed to connect it to that post.. *facepalm* However there are so many wildly different variations of 6-9gates that it's impossible to give any advice without much more specific information and scouting. Immo sentry all in, with correct execution (at least WOL mode) will leave at ~8:50 and hit before 10:00 if he moves fast, plays zeal heavy and you dont delay him - most people take 12 mins though, even at low-mid master, or some higher up. Yeah, you confused me quite a bit with 3 bases there for a while ^^, but what you are saying is completely true and I thank you for that information - it will help me. I just did the build flawlessly(more or less ) against the AI and at 10.00 I have 5 SH's, 4 more in production 50% done, 7 queens, 2 spines with a bank of 400 minerals for additional spines. A 10 minute push should be no problem. But earlier than that might be a huge problem. You do get an overseer out at 7.30 and you can scout immediately after that. You can even scout before you get an overseer since the Pneumatized Carapace will be done at around 7.00ish if you want to be extra careful. If you see the HuK build you can probably throw down a few extra spines in time - not sure though.I also have a question for Rekatan: When I watch your replays you pretty much always goes up to 55-60 drones immediately. Since you are still on 2 bases won't 44 suffice? As a rule of thumb I have 16 drones on minerals and 6 in gases on each base. You seem to be going way above this number making as much as 16 more drones, is there are specific reason for this? When you do get your third you can drone xfer. | ||
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PwFClockWise
Sweden49 Posts
On April 09 2013 06:32 BuiBui wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 08 2013 05:14 PwFClockWise wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 08 2013 04:18 Cyro wrote: It depends on the 7 gate. 7gate does not tell you anything other than an attack with 7 gateways - A HuK style 8gate can warp 8 zeals to a proxy pylon before 8:00 if you only build 2 units before that and are able to get pylons up outside of the safety of your FFE wall - Some unfortunate zergs at low master i've seen let a pylon get far too close to them and then they have 10 units with +1 attack hitting the third before 8:15 - but this is very scoutable. I mean he builds only 1 or 2 gateway units before the 8 minute warp - he has to drop all gates before 7 minutes (so starts at like 6:10 and drops as money comes in) and typically there's either 1 gas, or 2 gas with some probes pulled off - and a low probe count, as low as 35 or 36. You will NOT hold your third against this kind of attack with hydralisks, swarm hosts or 3 hatch muta - period, unless you read him like a book, cut drones early, kill the probe/s trying to proxy pylon multiple times, basically. Trying to defend a third with a lair tech unit is a strategical bad move against this specific kind of all in - you can't do it unless you have leads in the game (like you fuck up his timings) and trying will just lead to you getting overwhelmed completely. An 8gate of this style, i mean 9 +1 zeals a stalker and a mothership core at 8 mins at the closest pylon he has, you kinda dont want hydras at all. Hydra's are very bad against zealots in low numbers - Swarm hosts come too late, and Muta's require too much of a commital to hold the third. It's typically a roach ling queen spine defense, or a sack-third-without-competition, save drones, build a small or large spine wall and play 2 base vs 2 base because he has no tech, 36 workers and mostly zealot/stalker on the ground. Edit: And im an idiot, this is 2hatch lair play. I knew that because i already read the entire OP, but failed to connect it to that post.. *facepalm* However there are so many wildly different variations of 6-9gates that it's impossible to give any advice without much more specific information and scouting. Immo sentry all in, with correct execution (at least WOL mode) will leave at ~8:50 and hit before 10:00 if he moves fast, plays zeal heavy and you dont delay him - most people take 12 mins though, even at low-mid master, or some higher up. Yeah, you confused me quite a bit with 3 bases there for a while ^^, but what you are saying is completely true and I thank you for that information - it will help me. I just did the build flawlessly(more or less ) against the AI and at 10.00 I have 5 SH's, 4 more in production 50% done, 7 queens, 2 spines with a bank of 400 minerals for additional spines. A 10 minute push should be no problem. But earlier than that might be a huge problem. You do get an overseer out at 7.30 and you can scout immediately after that. You can even scout before you get an overseer since the Pneumatized Carapace will be done at around 7.00ish if you want to be extra careful. If you see the HuK build you can probably throw down a few extra spines in time - not sure though.I also have a question for Rekatan: When I watch your replays you pretty much always goes up to 55-60 drones immediately. Since you are still on 2 bases won't 44 suffice? As a rule of thumb I have 16 drones on minerals and 6 in gases on each base. You seem to be going way above this number making as much as 16 more drones, is there are specific reason for this? When you do get your third you can drone xfer. Yeah, but in the first VOD on Daybreak he says that you should add in saturation on the 3rd after the 3rd is taken and it feels safe. He also states in the VOD that you should add in drones together with units - not full drone cycles and that he went a bit overboard with the saturation on two bases. Even if I also think it's to saturate the 3rd instantly once it goes up, this contradicts what he says in the VOD. The positive reasons I see to go for the 60 drones are: 1. You add the extra drones because you CAN. You have the larva and the minerals to do so. 2. You can instantly saturate your 3rd once it goes up. 3. Later your Queens won't be on inject duty which means that you will not saturate the 3rd as quickly and during the saturation of the 3rd you will most likely have no larvae for units. The downside I see to having 60 drones on two bases is that you will mine out quicker. Depending on when your 3rd is taken you might need to be taking a 4th base since both your mineral lines could be a bit starving for minerals. I saw this a bit in the VOD against HuK. Rekatan was being denied taking his 3rd for a while and when he finally did it didn't take long until his main was mined out. He later needed a 5th base as well once the natural went dry, but didn't get one up. I'm not saying this is necessarily the case, I'm just curious to see if Rekatan has taken this under consideration and determined it to not be a problem. I want to hear Rekatans motivation for those extra 16 drones since he's been toying around with this since the beta. The build also changes between replays and VODS which are either alterations made due to analysis or to forgotten timings. When I study the build in depth it's kind of hard to know if alterations between replays are intentional or not. Edit: I just checked out Sheth's saturation guide, it's written way back so I'm not sure if still applies, but apparently 24 drones on minerals is better than having 16 on minerals. Which would be 24+24+6+6 = 60(2 bases of saturation with gases). Not sure why I've always thought that 16 was the magic number on minerals...? | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
As for fighting this I guess the key is to abuse the mobility of stalker/colossus/voidray. If you're splitting your waves protoss should be able to crush through one and kill the swarmhosts over there. Perhaps even just use his voidrays since you likely have a bunch of swarmhosts unprotected. Overall swarm hosts have felt a bit lackluster compared to other options and I don't feel using them this way helps very much with laser toss or air toss. | ||
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Rekatan
United States172 Posts
On April 08 2013 01:06 Kaoswarr wrote: Awesome guide Rekatan! How would this build fair against something like a 7 gate attack? Also how do you normally deal with the early pressure a lot of Protoss seem to be doing (such as 2 Stalkers + 1 Zealot with MSC)? As these kind of early pressures are the builds that I have most problems with. I'm Mid master EU Generally 7 gate it does great against (hard counters basically) it's those super fast 5 gate attacks, or even 1 base 4gate, that can be trouble since you're left with nothing but spines and queens to defend. Just make sure you allow yourself to sac an overlord if necessary. I have lost a TON of games because I was too greedy and thought "pfft only 45 seconds until overseer can morph!" but those 45 seconds that I was wondering lost me the game... *PS* Thanks Clockwise for helping answer some questions! I'm a bit overwhelmed lately with all the Q&A these threads have brought about ^_^ On April 08 2013 05:46 Zheryn wrote: How do you deal with counter attacks? They seem to just go for a counter attack with 1-2 collosi and some gateway warpins while I am on my way to their base/nearly at their natural. Your positioning is critical, you need to always be thinking "where are they, and where do I need to be relative to them". It's this constant back and forth where you are trying to anticipate their movements to ensure that your locusts make contact. If their army is outside of their base, the army is your target (rather than their base) so never bypass their army in favor of pressuring buildings (This only applies to ZvP). | ||
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Rekatan
United States172 Posts
On April 09 2013 06:31 BuiBui wrote: Yo rekatan! I have been trying your swarm host build over mine recently. And I really really like how your build flows. So far I have a 90% win rate at the 1000point master lvl. The only difference is. if I see air from the toss. I get a nydus. pop at their third. and lay down 5 spores. Cool! I like the variation - may give it a try sometime! + Show Spoiler + On April 09 2013 07:29 PwFClockWise wrote: Yeah, but in the first VOD on Daybreak he says that you should add in saturation on the 3rd after the 3rd is taken and it feels safe. He also states in the VOD that you should add in drones together with units - not full drone cycles and that he went a bit overboard with the saturation on two bases. Even if I also think it's to saturate the 3rd instantly once it goes up, this contradicts what he says in the VOD. The positive reasons I see to go for the 60 drones are: 1. You add the extra drones because you CAN. You have the larva and the minerals to do so. 2. You can instantly saturate your 3rd once it goes up. 3. Later your Queens won't be on inject duty which means that you will not saturate the 3rd as quickly and during the saturation of the 3rd you will most likely have no larvae for units. The downside I see to having 60 drones on two bases is that you will mine out quicker. Depending on when your 3rd is taken you might need to be taking a 4th base since both your mineral lines could be a bit starving for minerals. I saw this a bit in the VOD against HuK. Rekatan was being denied taking his 3rd for a while and when he finally did it didn't take long until his main was mined out. He later needed a 5th base as well once the natural went dry, but didn't get one up. I'm not saying this is necessarily the case, I'm just curious to see if Rekatan has taken this under consideration and determined it to not be a problem. I want to hear Rekatans motivation for those extra 16 drones since he's been toying around with this since the beta. The build also changes between replays and VODS which are either alterations made due to analysis or to forgotten timings. When I study the build in depth it's kind of hard to know if alterations between replays are intentional or not. Edit: I just checked out Sheth's saturation guide, it's written way back so I'm not sure if still applies, but apparently 24 drones on minerals is better than having 16 on minerals. Which would be 24+24+6+6 = 60(2 bases of saturation with gases). Not sure why I've always thought that 16 was the magic number on minerals...? 16 is optimal mining, while 24 is maximum mining. That said, I do (if I don't feel pressured) like to go to 60 drones on 2 bases. Sometimes I'll allow my main to mine out, but if I'm playing clean I'll pull 6-8 off main and nat to help my 3rd establish, and push that one up to 20+ if need be, since it has more time left on it. Thanks for the reminder btw I've been forgetting to do that lately! That said, an issue I always have is consistency, so don't be afraid to assume "he forgot" or "his build changed unintentionally". I am by no means a precision player like Stephano who can repeat the same build order every game down to the second. It's just not in my blood and I find I actually play worse when I do it. That said though, I always aspire to become more consistent without stifling creativity/flexibility :D so hopefully this gradually continues to improve. | ||
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Rekatan
United States172 Posts
On April 09 2013 08:05 Markwerf wrote: swarmhosts definately have their uses but I don't like this strat of rushing for them on 2 bases. There's basically nothing stopping protoss from just going really quick third behind stargate, at which point you can of course get a third too but I feel you're behind. As for fighting this I guess the key is to abuse the mobility of stalker/colossus/voidray. If you're splitting your waves protoss should be able to crush through one and kill the swarmhosts over there. Perhaps even just use his voidrays since you likely have a bunch of swarmhosts unprotected. Overall swarm hosts have felt a bit lackluster compared to other options and I don't feel using them this way helps very much with laser toss or air toss. Fast 3rd on stargate topples instantly to swarmhost play. You don't even need to bother with the 3rd, you can just creep highway straight to their natural and wait for the GG. It's not even remotely viable so it's kind of hard for me to respond to this because it just feels like theorycrafting without any experience. I hope this doesn't come across as rude, it's just, in practice what you're describing isn't remotely how it plays out. | ||
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H2OSno
United States127 Posts
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SweKenZo
Sweden82 Posts
On April 09 2013 11:31 H2OSno wrote: Why don't you ever make 1-2 infestors to Fungal Growth units and not let them escape? Seems a good way to force trades. ^- This is a really good question, although it will be too much micro for me too handle xD | ||
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