EPT[D] Sound's Hellbat drop. - Page 3
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rice_devOurer
United States773 Posts
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GaNgStaRR.ElV
Canada535 Posts
On April 01 2013 07:43 rice_devOurer wrote: I've tried this, and my drops are getting scouted by widow-mine drops... is this supposed to happen? Do you mean he is dropping widow mines in your base and seeing the hellbats or you are getting killed by defensive widow mines. | ||
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YyapSsap
New Zealand1511 Posts
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ThePianoDentist
United Kingdom698 Posts
I cant remember all the details but you get 12 rax, 12 gas, delay your first scv after OC for fast 2nd gas... you effectively skip the 2 standard hellions in this build, and your starport makes one medivac while the reactor is building on the barracks before swapping and altogether it times so that 5th/6th hellbats pop as 2nd/3rd medivacs pop. Due to the 12 gas and so faster armory this is actually pretty much the same timing as 2 medivac drop. edit: rewatched the replay, was one of the first times ive been trying this build so my execution meant my timing was off by just under 15 seconds. This other timing if both builds are executed well should be 25 seconds behind but with an extra medivac and 2 more hellbats | ||
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GaNgStaRR.ElV
Canada535 Posts
On April 01 2013 09:10 ThePianoDentist wrote: just watch out, i played a guy who did a small variation on this where its 3 medivacs full of hellbats dropping literally right after your 2 medivac hellbat drop. I cant remember all the details but you get 12 rax, 12 gas, delay your first scv after cc for fast 2nd gas... you effectively skip the 2 standard hellions in this build, and your starport makes one medivac while the reactor is building on the barracks before swapping and altogether it times so that 5th/6th hellbats pop as 2nd/3rd medivacs pop. Due to the 12 gas and so faster armory this is actually pretty much the same timing as 2 medivac drop. Sounds pretty nuts. How do you fit a CC in though and hit the same timing? Did you mean OC? | ||
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ThePianoDentist
United Kingdom698 Posts
Is there any other mech opener that is safe against this? as most mech openers rely on reactor hellion....and hellions seem to get smashed by hellbats with medivac support. | ||
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ThePianoDentist
United Kingdom698 Posts
On April 01 2013 09:14 GaNgStaRR.ElV wrote: Sounds pretty nuts. How do you fit a CC in though and hit the same timing? Did you mean OC? yeah, thanks edited | ||
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GaNgStaRR.ElV
Canada535 Posts
Ok yeah, I was wondering if you had some type of "show me the money" cheat going on haaha. | ||
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n00dle
France1 Post
Is my micro not good enough or has it become weaker? I really don't know. I am not trying this agian though I guess. I am in Gold League btw. | ||
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GaNgStaRR.ElV
Canada535 Posts
Might be down to your control too, being able to pick up/drop quickly is essential to do any real damage. | ||
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A Wild Sosd
Australia421 Posts
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GaNgStaRR.ElV
Canada535 Posts
On April 01 2013 15:08 A Wild Sosd wrote: Could this effectively transition into bio/mine or bio/tank? Yes but you need to do damage otherwise a counter will roll over you. I have been experimenting with following this up with 2 vikings, then building a techlab, pumping 1 banshee(havent had enough for cloak yet but wanna try too), and getting the burrow on mines, then getting stim and 3CC. Obviously you are going to die if they come with marine tank but the idea is 1. hellbats kill and weaken a ton of SCVS 2. 2 Vikings kill the viking he will produce to stop you lift microing 3. Banshee arrives defended by vikings who will be able to fend off his 1 at a time vikings; natural reaction to this is to build tanks since they are the unit sturdy enough to kill hellbats easy, but too bad can't shoot up. And your banshee will finish off a ton of weakened SCV's and delay mining further. The idea is that with 9 units and greed you set yourself up to crush with a second timing attack if your opponent doesn't GG. Going to recommend tanks only because I feel like they will help you win the game easier if your opponent goes behind but is trying to hold out, since you can siege him slowly, whereas mines you are a bit more defensive, unless you want to drop the mines etc. | ||
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Ozlo
United States30 Posts
i use a variation of this build in TvZ; however, i play it with much more focus on macro. basically my BO is: 10 depot 12 rax 13 depot (pull worker off the depot before it finishes; use this worker to scout) 15 gas 16 start marine production (make 2 marines than build a reactor on the barrax) -make 2 more marines 18-21 expand after expo goes up build a factory at 100 gas when you start factory, make your second gas depot at 24 when factory finishes, start the starport - use barrax to get the second reactory tech switch factory and barrax make 4 widow mines - if the zerg went for a fats third, feel free to plant these in front of his base build armory while the mines are being made. tech switch rax and port start hellbat medivac production start an early third (in base) at around 7-7:30 build 2 e-bays and 4 more rax - transition into biomine with early hellbats. if all goes well, it will set you up for the 16 minute 2/2 timing loved by flash and his bio-mine play. | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On April 01 2013 17:47 Ozlo wrote: I must say that i dislike this version of the strategy. it is too all in and it banks far too much on worker damage. i tried this out (at diamond level play) and i killed no less than 26 workers. however, that barely put me EVEN in the worker count against the FE'ing terran. (not to mention micro'd marauders hard counter this) i use a variation of this build in TvZ; however, i play it with much more focus on macro. basically my BO is: 10 depot 12 rax 13 depot (pull worker off the depot before it finishes; use this worker to scout) 15 gas 16 start marine production (make 2 marines than build a reactor on the barrax) -make 2 more marines 18-21 expand after expo goes up build a factory at 100 gas when you start factory, make your second gas depot at 24 when factory finishes, start the starport - use barrax to get the second reactory tech switch factory and barrax make 4 widow mines - if the zerg went for a fats third, feel free to plant these in front of his base build armory while the mines are being made. tech switch rax and port start hellbat medivac production start an early third (in base) at around 7-7:30 build 2 e-bays and 4 more rax - transition into biomine with early hellbats. if all goes well, it will set you up for the 16 minute 2/2 timing loved by flash and his bio-mine play. Couple of things, real fast. One, it hits as early as possible with 4 bats, 2 medivacs. If you do 26 workers damage, you won the game in TvT vs fast expoing terran. Hellbats are light, microed marauders do shit against them. I've used this against Fe terran, 1-1-1 terrans, mine dropping terrans, hellion/banshee... it's worked well almost every time. It's not 'too all in' as you say. It doesn't cut scvs. It doesn't leave you with a worthless unit Hellbats are still debo at defending pushes, and can be used to continue to drop harass. and 16 minute...2/2 timing.......16 minutes.....really? That's a bit late for a 2/2 timing dude. | ||
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LardMaster
United Kingdom123 Posts
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Ozlo
United States30 Posts
On April 01 2013 19:01 iAmJeffReY wrote: Couple of things, real fast. One, it hits as early as possible with 4 bats, 2 medivacs. If you do 26 workers damage, you won the game in TvT vs fast expoing terran. Hellbats are light, microed marauders do shit against them. I've used this against Fe terran, 1-1-1 terrans, mine dropping terrans, hellion/banshee... it's worked well almost every time. It's not 'too all in' as you say. It doesn't cut scvs. It doesn't leave you with a worthless unit Hellbats are still debo at defending pushes, and can be used to continue to drop harass. and 16 minute...2/2 timing.......16 minutes.....really? That's a bit late for a 2/2 timing dude. however, that is around the time that terrans love to push against zerg with a HUGE 2/2 army and at that point its "drill baby drill" with drop harass and a lot or forces at the front. it hits right before hive tech is useful and it usually does massive damage if handled right and also wins games. the reason i say it is all in, is because if it is scouted, it can be shut down easily with any number of AA defense as well as simply splitting workers rather than putting them into a conga-line. it seems that the assumption for killing massive amounts of workers is that the opposing player pulls all the workers en-mass to a specific location (which the drop micro exploits). furthermore, the expansion is SO late that any self respecting player has bank advantage on you regardless of what you do. to paraphrase day[9], there is a difference between a trick and a strategy. this is most definitely a trick. 1. smart players (with decent apm) dont pull all their workers to the same place. ESPECIALLY since it is easily scouted. 2. marauders kill hellbats rather efficiently with about 4-5 of them so do roach, and stalkers. 3. if you fail to do absolutely crippling damage, you are instantly dead. though this is all put through the lens of my play-style and experience. edit - also, the 2/2 is, slightly, delayed due to the sheer macro style of the build, and the harass factor of the hellbat drops. with decent worker kills, the zerg opponent will be slightly delayed too | ||
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SSVnormandy
France392 Posts
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Breach_hu
Hungary2431 Posts
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SSVnormandy
France392 Posts
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Csong
Canada396 Posts
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