EPTThe HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 74
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
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SAlechko
Israel15 Posts
I find that if I constantly do warp ins, I really don't have a lot of gas left for tech, which ends up delayed, or minerals for a third expo. Is this normal? I don't know any of the Protoss timings but I feel it's better to skip warp in rounds - as long as you're safe - to get tech or expansions faster. I'm considering to favour building gateways instead of units and then do large warp-ins when I need to (like defending drops, etc.). Thanks  | ||
Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
On April 30 2013 01:16 SAlechko wrote: Sorry for the silly question but when do you warp units? I recently gave Protoss a try, played Terran and Zerg for a year and have what I feel a good understandings of those race's mechanics. I find that if I constantly do warp ins, I really don't have a lot of gas left for tech, which ends up delayed, or minerals for a third expo. Is this normal? I don't know any of the Protoss timings but I feel it's better to skip warp in rounds - as long as you're safe - to get tech or expansions faster. I'm considering to favour building gateways instead of units and then do large warp-ins when I need to (like defending drops, etc.). Thanks Yeah many Protoss builds have a tendency to cut units at key times to tech up instead of warping in constantly. As far as specifics go it's too broad a question, i suggest you simply look at pro vods of whatever builds you are trying to learn (there aren't any tournament hots replay packs yet). That said, not warping in any unit at all is overkill, there's usually a middle ground between the two. | ||
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SAlechko
Israel15 Posts
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
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SkyBlaze
Canada191 Posts
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Salivanth
Australia1071 Posts
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On April 29 2013 23:53 vhapter wrote: I've been playing on that map since the season started and yeah drops can be frustrating on it. Not as bad as Whirlwind or Neo Planet S, but yes it can be annoying. On those 3 maps I've started getting multiple observers and placing them at common paths terrans send their dropships in. It definitely helps. Keeping stalkers hotkeyed separately is definitely important as well.I've decided to start playing on Bel'shir Vestige recently. Damn, it's so hard to defend against drops on this maps. Once you get a third, it seems nearly impossible to position your army properly in order to defend your bases. Too many ramps, your natural and your third are so far apart, plus observers hardly gives you enough vision to be truly safe. The other third doesn't even allow your stalkers and colossi to walk up and down the cliff because there is a whole in between it and your main. Thoughts? | ||
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
On April 30 2013 01:40 DarkLordOlli wrote: Just to expand on the VOD things, Dreamhack will release the first HotS tournament replay pack sometime soon. Should be great stuff in there, lots of protoss goodness! Oh fuck yeah i wasn't aware of that. Thanks for posting. On April 30 2013 02:18 Salivanth wrote: What do I do against a Zerg who uses an Ultra/Hydra force? It seems anything that's good against one sucks against the other. Colossus/zealot/immortal/archon. Just do your standard colo stuff and add templar+immortal when you see the ultras. | ||
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shivver
United States232 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
Besides, 12 vs 13 gate isn't that big of a deal anyway. It's certainly not worth doing to hold early pools. | ||
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AGIANTSMURF
United States1232 Posts
On April 30 2013 02:33 shivver wrote: Teoita do you recommend doing a 12 gate instead of 13 gate vs z now with a 1 gate expo? I got 6 pooled yesterday and lost pretty badly because the zlot seemed to be so late to the party. Also should I chrono out 2 zlots and cut the cyber core until then? Mind you I'm not walling in when I do this as I really don't think you need to see how naniwa, state, and others aren't doing it either. 12 gate or 13 gate is only a few seconds difference, micro with probes should allow you to get a zealot out easily. you should delay the cy-core until after you start the first zealot, then you can place it down and still afford a second zealot immediately after the first. you dont need to wall in, you just need to micro probes correctly and keep your cool. | ||
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shivver
United States232 Posts
in terms of the micro you guys are talking about, is there any tricks to this at all that I should know? I was a masters level T in WoL for reference, I've only been playing toss around 3 weeks now so I know very little about the matchups. Do I just pull a few probes once the zealot is out to get him away from the cyber? | ||
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blae000
Norway1640 Posts
When I a-move the main army group and want to queue up forcefields by using shift, my sentries wants to move to the a-move location before casting.. Which makes sense if I shift-click after the a-move command, so I figured I should start to cast forcefields without the shift-key at first (one or two) then shift click the rest, assuming I need to cast more.. But the same thing happens.. And by casting without shift at all, I'm limited to cast as many forcefields as I have sentries, they walk up and cast one each.. All of this is when the sentries are OUT OF RANGE of where I cast them.. Preemptively casting them before a fight, or when the sentries simply are out of range. If the sentries are in range I can simply f-click as many as I have energy for obviously. Having the sentries selected alone and move commanding them, then shift-clicking works, but that seems like a big time consuming thing in a big fight.. How do you guys deal with sentries and forcefield spamming? | ||
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
On April 30 2013 02:49 blae000 wrote: I have a pretty noobie question, so be kind! ;D.. I started playing toss in HotS, and I haven't figured out how to control sentries properly yet. I have my sentries in my main control group, which is 3, then something like HT/phoenix etc in 2 and MSC 1 usually. When I a-move the main army group and want to queue up forcefields by using shift, my sentries wants to move to the a-move location before casting.. Which makes sense if I shift-click after the a-move command, so I figured I should start to cast forcefields without the shift-key at first (one or two) then shift click the rest, assuming I need to cast more.. But the same thing happens.. And by casting without shift at all, I'm limited to cast as many forcefields as I have sentries, they walk up and cast one each.. All of this is when the sentries are OUT OF RANGE of where I cast them.. Preemptively casting them before a fight, or when the sentries simply are out of range. If the sentries are in range I can simply f-click as many as I have energy for obviously. Having the sentries selected alone and move commanding them, then shift-clicking works, but that seems like a big time consuming thing in a big fight.. How do you guys deal with sentries and forcefield spamming? Never shift queue forcefields. Either f-click-f-click-f-click or hold f and spam click. I've always done the latter. On April 30 2013 02:44 shivver wrote: Okay I think I "lost my cool" when he started attacking the core that was warping in in terms of the micro you guys are talking about, is there any tricks to this at all that I should know? I was a masters level T in WoL for reference, I've only been playing toss around 3 weeks now so I know very little about the matchups. Do I just pull a few probes once the zealot is out to get him away from the cyber? You need to pull every probe and threaten to attack his lings if he's going for your pylon(s), and run them away if he decides to attack your probes. Either way, that'll buy time for the zealot to come out. | ||
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
I really want to learn this build, but I'm not sure what is considered a safe follow up. Do I need to send an observer to my opponent's base asap to see whether he expanded and his tech route in order to make a choice? Or should I give up 2 early force fields to scout earlier with a hallucinated phoenix? I'd rather not gamble any further than hoping I won't be facing an early stargate. Is it safe to rely on photon overcharge to tech + get upgrades before adding extra gateways (4, 5, and 6)? | ||
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qapuk
United States71 Posts
On April 30 2013 03:52 vhapter wrote: Teoita, y u no help me with 1 gate FE in PvP? u.u I really want to learn this build, but I'm not sure what is considered a safe follow up. Do I need to send an observer to my opponent's base asap to see whether he expanded and his tech route in order to make a choice? Or should I give up 2 early force fields to scout earlier with a hallucinated phoenix? I'd rather not gamble any further than hoping I won't be facing an early stargate. Is it safe to rely on photon overcharge to tech + get upgrades before adding extra gateways (4, 5, and 6)? I honesly dont think this is a reliable way to "get ahead" at all. I see alot of people emphasizing the 1 gate expand robo as being safe. But you're prone to oracle harass, voidray harass, 2 immortal drop snipe, prism 4 gate, blink by after activating overcharge. Even if you defend it, at best is you are just equalizing the game, cause after all said and done, your opponent probably expo behind all of this harass. If anything, I think 1 gate expo gate gate ... defend harass while probing up with canon as detection (like the way terran plays) is the most effective way to be safe. probably the only thing u'd lose to here is the crazy 1 base dt drop. | ||
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barbaTossa
23 Posts
Should I add one Stargate and a Fleet Beacon as soon as I scout a Greater Spire? When should I start adding Voids/more Stargates in a "standard game" in order to accomplish the ideal lategame army the FAQ mentions? Should I get upgrades for air? When? Should I get Shields over Armour after +3 ground attack? In PvT: How do I control my High Templar? Do I add my High Templar to my main hotkeygroup? They clump and if I a-move they just walk to where I clicked and get killed. I tried to have them on a seperate hotkey and make them follow my Collosus but I tend to "lose" them this way after an engagement. On using storm: Should I send my High Templar two at a time and try to merge an Archon or suicude one? Does "3-4 or so around the map gathering energy" mean I should get High Templars at random proxy pylons? /edit: also THE guide states that the correct way to ffe is 17 Nexus, Forge, Pylon yet both Rain and Parting went 16 Nexus, Forge in Proleague today. Why? | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On April 30 2013 04:31 barbaTossa wrote: Do I make VoidRays or Tempests to deal with Broodlords? Both? Should I add one Stargate and a Fleet Beacon as soon as I scout a Greater Spire? When should I start adding Voids/more Stargates in a "standard game" in order to accomplish the ideal lategame army the FAQ mentions? Should I get upgrades for air? When? Should I get Shields over Armour after +3 ground attack? In PvT: How do I control my High Templar? Do I add my High Templar to my main hotkeygroup? They clump and if I a-move they just walk to where I clicked and get killed. I tried to have them on a seperate hotkey and make them follow my Collosus but I tend to "lose" them this way after an engagement. On using storm: Should I send my High Templar two at a time and try to merge an Archon or suicude one? Does "3-4 or so around the map gathering energy" mean I should get High Templars at random proxy pylons? Personally I don't like tempests in PvZ and would always prefer void rays over tempests, but if you're in a situation where you either can't afford or don't have time to get out enough voids against BL, I'd rather have 2 tempests than 3 voids. Assuming you went for some kind of stalker/colo/sentry on 2-3 bases I'd start getting voids when you're comfortably on 3 bases. However if your opponent went for roach/hydra/viper, I would get HT before voids. Air attack upgrades are always important, you can start them at around the same time you start making voids. Shields vs ground armor is up to personal preference. You should not have HT hotkeyed with your main army. Keep them separately hotkeyed but you also need to put additional effort into controlling them to keep them separated and not clumped up. Always send HT 1 by 1, you'll never be able to save them via archon merge because they will die too fast either by snipes or small bio groups. I like having HT all over the map at proxy pylons, especially along a retreat path from the terran base to mine so I can slowly retreat my army while storming his. | ||
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shivver
United States232 Posts
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